"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[TheMikado]

Is this true?? Because the way the directing and story have been written I long suspected they just farmed out the episodes writing to freelance writers?? If that's true then the actual quality of the show really exposes their production procedures. Something a show should never do.

I take it you have no idea how anime production works...
Most anime writers are freelance, Super has about 5 people who write all of the episodes, it's not like it's a new person every week.

No I don't, so it sounds like it is VERY different than standard production teams where they often meet and go over the trajectory of the series together.
No wonder it feels like a hodgepodge, because it literally is. Particularly in the west you would often see teams have creative brainstorming meetings or at least get on the same page in making a serialized production. I said before it feels like the writers are working remotely from each other, particularly when they talking about guess what another writer may have been thinking or tried to convey. My first thought, based on excellent production teams I've seen in the past was "If he wasn't clear on the other writer's intentions and it has an impact on the show, why not just ask him???" Well that clears up a lot because they writers may not actually do much communication between each other. I've said multiple times the way the show runs it feels like they were handed their episode assignments independently from one another so now all of this makes sooooooo much more sense.

[ArchedThunder]

No I don't, so it sounds like it is VERY different than standard production teams where they often meet and go over the trajectory of the series together.
No wonder it feels like a hodgepodge, because it literally is. Particularly in the west you would often see teams have creative brainstorming meetings or at least get on the same page in making a serialized production. I said before it feels like the writers are working remotely from each other, particularly when they talking about guess what another writer may have been thinking or tried to convey. My first thought, based on excellent production teams I've seen in the past was "If he wasn't clear on the other writer's intentions and it has an impact on the show, why not just ask him???" Well that clears up a lot because they writers may not actually do much communication between each other. I've said multiple times the way the show runs it feels like they were handed their episode assignments independently from one another so now all of this makes sooooooo much more sense.

No, they have constant writers meetings.

[TheMikado]

No I don't, so it sounds like it is VERY different than standard production teams where they often meet and go over the trajectory of the series together.
No wonder it feels like a hodgepodge, because it literally is. Particularly in the west you would often see teams have creative brainstorming meetings or at least get on the same page in making a serialized production. I said before it feels like the writers are working remotely from each other, particularly when they talking about guess what another writer may have been thinking or tried to convey. My first thought, based on excellent production teams I've seen in the past was "If he wasn't clear on the other writer's intentions and it has an impact on the show, why not just ask him???" Well that clears up a lot because they writers may not actually do much communication between each other. I've said multiple times the way the show runs it feels like they were handed their episode assignments independently from one another so now all of this makes sooooooo much more sense.

No, they have constant writers meetings.

Were you in the last few meetings?

[JulieYBM]

Freelance writers write scripts for Dragon Ball Super based on the combined whims of the series director and the representatives of the production committee members. This is why we get characters like Kale, who resemble Broli and can be used to sell merchandise. The comic by Toyo-tarou is subject to the same whims. Remember, the job of Toyo-tarou's editor is to make the comic popular. This means pandering. Toyo-tarou wasn't hired to write an original comic, he was hired to make a Dragon Ball comic that could sell merchandise.

I don't know why anyone here would think that these projects were being created in creatively free environments under the best conditions possible. The fact that so few good staff work on the cartoon and can produce good work should be fucking proof of that.

Is this true?? Because the way the directing and story have been written I long suspected they just farmed out the episodes writing to freelance writers?? If that's true then the actual quality of the show really exposes their production procedures. Something a show should never do.

Studios don't have in-house writers (unless the director himself is a writer). Directors and producers hire series kousei (series composer/organizer/construction, the head writer) based on a writer that they already know and they help them structure the storyline into scripts. Writers don't lead the projects, the director does. An episode changes so much from the completion of a final script draft to the completed episode that it's hardly fair to blame a mere hired-gun for the adaption of his script into a completed episode.

EDIT: This quote is from a research paper written about the production of Ootsuka Takashi's Smile! PreCure.

Otsuka hits on the commercial aspect of economically successful anime: conspicuous individuality is subservient to the main goal of selling toys. Though Otsuka does direct an episode in the series that is a love letter to the “robot anime of his youth,” for the most part, his early exposure to the show has conditioned him to view his role as the creator of a combined advertisement, simultaneously realizing the desires of both creators (writers, artists, animators) and sponsors (producers, advertising reps). One such sponsor-producer of the series tells me Otsuka is rare in this respect: “Many directors become obsessed with telling their own story for the show and forget about their responsibility to the sponsor. Otsuka’s talent lies in his ability to express himself while also incorporating the sponsor in interesting ways. He’s very mature for a young director” (Sasaki).

This mentality is behind all commercial anime, but especially Toei Animation series and those beholden to the whims of sponsors, like Dragon Ball Super. Rarely we get exceptions to this rule, like Kyousougiga, Saint Seiya Omega Episodes #1-51 and Tiger Mask W.

[TheMikado]

Freelance writers write scripts for Dragon Ball Super based on the combined whims of the series director and the representatives of the production committee members. This is why we get characters like Kale, who resemble Broli and can be used to sell merchandise. The comic by Toyo-tarou is subject to the same whims. Remember, the job of Toyo-tarou's editor is to make the comic popular. This means pandering. Toyo-tarou wasn't hired to write an original comic, he was hired to make a Dragon Ball comic that could sell merchandise.

I don't know why anyone here would think that these projects were being created in creatively free environments under the best conditions possible. The fact that so few good staff work on the cartoon and can produce good work should be fucking proof of that.

Is this true?? Because the way the directing and story have been written I long suspected they just farmed out the episodes writing to freelance writers?? If that's true then the actual quality of the show really exposes their production procedures. Something a show should never do.

Studios don't have in-house writers (unless the director himself is a writer). Directors and producers hire series kousei (series composer/organizer/construction, the head writer) based on a writer that they already know and they help them structure the storyline into scripts. Writers don't lead the projects, the director does. An episode changes so much from the completion of a final script draft to the completed episode that it's hardly fair to blame a mere hired-gun for the adaption of his script into a completed episode.

EDIT: This quote is from a research paper written about the production of Ootsuka Takashi's Smile! PreCure.

Otsuka hits on the commercial aspect of economically successful anime: conspicuous individuality is subservient to the main goal of selling toys. Though Otsuka does direct an episode in the series that is a love letter to the “robot anime of his youth,” for the most part, his early exposure to the show has conditioned him to view his role as the creator of a combined advertisement, simultaneously realizing the desires of both creators (writers, artists, animators) and sponsors (producers, advertising reps). One such sponsor-producer of the series tells me Otsuka is rare in this respect: “Many directors become obsessed with telling their own story for the show and forget about their responsibility to the sponsor. Otsuka’s talent lies in his ability to express himself while also incorporating the sponsor in interesting ways. He’s very mature for a young director” (Sasaki).

In certainly not laying the blame on the writers themselves. They are are getting a paycheck. I always saw the quality of work to be a sign of production and its many director changes. Super has had 5 directors in 1 and half years I believe. If anything the above also shows that "sponsor" interests also take priority. I know Bandai sponsors Precure, do they also sponsor DB Super?

[BlueBasilisk]

I know Bandai sponsors Precure, do they also sponsor DB Super?

Yep. Bandai-Namco are usually featured in the sponsor bumper at the beginning of each episode. I expect that's why there's a commercial for the Kamehameha Ball before the episode and Heroes/Dokkan/toy commercials in the first few minutes each week.

[omaro34]

Since we know Toriyama could be a troll at times, I see something will happen that will anger the fanbase.

Vegeta hasn't been promoted much in this arc, and he was barely present during the recruitment episodes, absent during the Zen Exhibition Matches, and is already showcasing his skills this early in the ToP. This leads me to believe he will either lose early to Hit, or perhaps will lose to a transformed Brianne de Chateau, which will cause this forum and the fanbase to be completely enraged.

[perucho1990]

Since we know Toriyama could be a troll at times, I see something will happen that will anger the fanbase.

Vegeta hasn't been promoted much in this arc, and he was barely present during the recruitment episodes, absent during the Zen Exhibition Matches, and is already showcasing his skills this early in the ToP. This leads me to believe he will either lose early to Hit, or perhaps will lose to a transformed Brianne de Chateau, which will cause this forum and the fanbase to be completely enraged.

I see him fight Hit but I think Vegeta will perform better to the point Hit will praise him, then its interrupted by the Kamikaze Fireballs or the Pride Troopers..

The forum mood will get worse if Brianne defeats Vegeta and later on Caulifla defeats her..

[Ki Breaker]

The forum mood will get worse if Brianne defeats Vegeta and later on Caulifla defeats her..

If these kind of events take place the mood will only get bad if this fighting is handled by sheer strength alone..
If magical girl defeats Vegeta before he could use blue then Cauliflowa defeats her then it's fine..
Cauliflowa is capable of fighting with SS2 goku and Vegeta is using SS again magical girl in op, it will fit..

Now if vegeta goes blue but magical girl "overpowers" him then Cauliflowa defeats her, that would cause an uproar and rightfully so

[perucho1990]

If these kind of events take place the mood will only get bad if this fighting is handled by sheer strength alone..
If magical girl defeats Vegeta before he could use blue then Cauliflowa defeats her then it's fine..
Cauliflowa is capable of fighting with SS2 goku and Vegeta is using SS again magical girl in op, it will fit..

Now if vegeta goes blue but magical girl "overpowers" him then Cauliflowa defeats her, that would cause an uproar and rightfully so

I'm 99% sure Caulifla will get some kind of powerup after she witnesses Kale being destroyed by Jiren.

Reminder that Caulifla is supposed to be important in this arc

[Noah]

Freelance writers write scripts for Dragon Ball Super based on the combined whims of the series director and the representatives of the production committee members. This is why we get characters like Kale, who resemble Broli and can be used to sell merchandise. The comic by Toyo-tarou is subject to the same whims. Remember, the job of Toyo-tarou's editor is to make the comic popular. This means pandering. Toyo-tarou wasn't hired to write an original comic, he was hired to make a Dragon Ball comic that could sell merchandise.

I don't know why anyone here would think that these projects were being created in creatively free environments under the best conditions possible. The fact that so few good staff work on the cartoon and can produce good work should be fucking proof of that.

Unfortunately that's true, even back in DBZ most extra stuff were done aiming on profit. No wonder Super is just another cash cow, that's why we shouldn't expect much from it.

[Ki Breaker]

If these kind of events take place the mood will only get bad if this fighting is handled by sheer strength alone..
If magical girl defeats Vegeta before he could use blue then Cauliflowa defeats her then it's fine..
Cauliflowa is capable of fighting with SS2 goku and Vegeta is using SS again magical girl in op, it will fit..

Now if vegeta goes blue but magical girl "overpowers" him then Cauliflowa defeats her, that would cause an uproar and rightfully so

I'm 99% sure Caulifla will get some kind of powerup after she witnesses Kale being destroyed by Jiren.

Reminder that Caulifla is supposed to be important in this arc

No she isn't supposed to be anything other than a female Saiyan..
There is nothing suggesting she will do anything of importance, she might but there isn't anything to imply it

[perucho1990]

Unfortunately that's true, even back in DBZ most extra stuff were done aiming on profit. No wonder Super is just another cash cow, that's why we shouldn't expect much from it.

Its the WWE mentality, you are getting the focus if you bring the $$$$ otherwise you get buried.

Lets take Gohan, he has had lots of screen time in this arc compared to the previous arcs because he can still bring money besides being a fan favorite.

No she isn't supposed to be anything other than a female Saiyan..
There is nothing suggesting she will do anything of importance, she might but there isn't anything to imply it

She might become the strongest in U6 after Hit. She might have a fight with someone strong set up like 18 had(vs Frost). tbh it wouldnt make sense if 18 is more relevant than Caulifla and I like both of them btw.

Also Did you notice that line that mentions about her back? Back Tingling had foreshadowing

[DBZ Macky]

If these kind of events take place the mood will only get bad if this fighting is handled by sheer strength alone..
If magical girl defeats Vegeta before he could use blue then Cauliflowa defeats her then it's fine..
Cauliflowa is capable of fighting with SS2 goku and Vegeta is using SS again magical girl in op, it will fit..

Now if vegeta goes blue but magical girl "overpowers" him then Cauliflowa defeats her, that would cause an uproar and rightfully so

I'm 99% sure Caulifla will get some kind of powerup after she witnesses Kale being destroyed by Jiren.

Reminder that Caulifla is supposed to be important in this arc

No she isn't supposed to be anything other than a female Saiyan..
There is nothing suggesting she will do anything of importance, she might but there isn't anything to imply it

The scan above literally states that there's no doubt that she'd be important, though.

[Ki Breaker]

I'm 99% sure Caulifla will get some kind of powerup after she witnesses Kale being destroyed by Jiren.

Reminder that Caulifla is supposed to be important in this arc

No she isn't supposed to be anything other than a female Saiyan..
There is nothing suggesting she will do anything of importance, she might but there isn't anything to imply it

The scan above literally states that there's no doubt that she'd be important, though.

I am all for a debate on how "valuable" and "dependable" their advertisement is..
Krillins hidden power was a stink shoe, the vegeta launched an attack on uni 6 so in rage was so great I wouldn't even have guessed it happened in that magnitude if I wasn't told..
See where I am going with this?
These things aren't reliable, there are plenty of instances but it will be a pain to both of us to go through them all, so I am skipping it in confidence that you understand what I am talking about here..

Also Did you notice that line that mentions about her back? Back Tingling had foreshadowing

Hahaha, even if I am pretty sure it was for her tail that they mention the back, it's a pretty clever little thing if they thought this through..

[perucho1990]

I am all for a debate on how "valuable" and "dependable" their advertisement is..
Krillins hidden power was a stink shoe, the vegeta launched an attack on uni 6 so in rage was so great I wouldn't even have guessed it happened in that magnitude if I wasn't told..
See where I am going with this?
These things aren't reliable, there are plenty of instances but it will be a pain to both of us to go through them all, so I am skipping it in confidence that you understand what I am talking about here..


Hahaha, even if I am pretty sure it was for her tail that they mention the back, it's a pretty clever little thing if they thought this through..

There were 2 batches of spoilers, in one of them it had Krillin say "I'm not deadwood" which never happened in episode 99.

Vegeta wanted payback fighting Hit again after the humilliation he suffered in the U6 tournament, so that kinda counts as rage.

Yes, I get your point, to take the previews with a grain of salt, they sometimes dont spoil important stuff like Zamasu killing everyone in Trunks timeline.

I cant wait for episode 101 preview(should be out tomorrow), we would get an idea if Kale really got eliminated or if Jiren will fight Hit.

[TheOne]

Since we know Toriyama could be a troll at times, I see something will happen that will anger the fanbase.

Vegeta hasn't been promoted much in this arc, and he was barely present during the recruitment episodes, absent during the Zen Exhibition Matches, and is already showcasing his skills this early in the ToP. This leads me to believe he will either lose early to Hit, or perhaps will lose to a transformed Brianne de Chateau, which will cause this forum and the fanbase to be completely enraged.

Vegetas strength has already been established. He's number two.

With your logic, Krillin should still be in the tournament but got knocked out within a couple episodes. Vegeta not being promoted during this arc has absolutely nothing to do with how well he will do in the tournament. He's been a regular since the beginning of Super and they needed to establish and develop charachters who didn't have much screen time.

Any slacking Vegeta did over the last few months easily returned to him after he left the hyperbolic time chamber.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Still waiting on the first Caulifla merchandise to pop up.... Hope she gets a proper figure and not a gashapon or WCF, they really need to start releasing stuff in faster increments the Black arc finished a while ago and we are still getting figures from that arc, we are just finally getting Ikari Trunks around Oct/Nov!!

[FortuneSSJ]

I'm 99% sure Caulifla will get some kind of powerup after she witnesses Kale being destroyed by Jiren.

Considering Jiren attitude so far I'm not sure if he will eliminate her, or he will just beat her and leaving her on the floor. Caulifla could also save her from getting eliminated, like krillin did with C18.

I'm curious to see how that situation will play out, because I'm still expecting Kale to get this form.
That's the best thing that can happen to her character. She looks confident and less like Broly.

There was theory here by someone saying that form will be her version of SS Ikari, once she controls her power. I'm digging that. Caulifla got SSJ and SSJ2 after all.

[Dragonballgod19]

Since we know Toriyama could be a troll at times, I see something will happen that will anger the fanbase.

Vegeta hasn't been promoted much in this arc, and he was barely present during the recruitment episodes, absent during the Zen Exhibition Matches, and is already showcasing his skills this early in the ToP. This leads me to believe he will either lose early to Hit, or perhaps will lose to a transformed Brianne de Chateau, which will cause this forum and the fanbase to be completely enraged.

Vegetas strength has already been established. He's number two.

With your logic, Krillin should still be in the tournament but got knocked out within a couple episodes. Vegeta not being promoted during this arc has absolutely nothing to do with how well he will do in the tournament. He's been a regular since the beginning of Super and they needed to establish and develop charachters who didn't have much screen time.

Any slacking Vegeta did over the last few months easily returned to him after he left the hyperbolic time chamber.

Exactly and ever since the tournament started he's been getting the most screen time and knocked out the most people on the team