Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Basako]

Thoughts about Kale. It's a SS form, the one the legends told about, according to Vegeta. It's totally in SSB level or more and I'm fine with that. It has its drawback, zero control.

But no match for Jiren.

Not happening, but if they canonized Broly as the U7 legendary SS, I would be fine with that. But I don't mean the movie, rewriting the character into the story now.

[Xeogran]

People shouldn't underrate Broly now compared to Kale. He existed in different times so it may not seem like so at first. Bet if he showed in Super, he would be the same or stronger than her, since nowadays everyone is just at SSB tiers.

[Ki Breaker]

People shouldn't underrate Broly now compared to Kale. He existed in different times so it may not seem like so at first. Bet if he showed in Super, he would be the same or stronger than her, since nowadays everyone is just at SSB tiers.

It's all a complete senseless mush, but if I had to guess, SS3 has a lot more stamina issues than blue, so to even powerup a little more than 2 goku goes blue and holds back..
He did come out unscathed from the kale assault, at least we don't see any damage visually

[Kishido]

Yes she is... She tanked a Blue Kamehameha... And that's what it is in the CANON. Her form is just that strong.

So stop comparing it to Broly and his feats in NON CANON movies. Of course she is a homage to his design and form but not to his feats.

If Broly would be introduced now as canon U7 Saiyan he would be on the same level.

[ekrolo2]

So Kale's Berserker form goes from weaker then SS2 to apparently being SSBlue tier. Sounds par for the course. Can't wait for Roshi to one shot Zeno soon.

[Kishido]

So Kale's Berserker form goes from weaker then SS2 to apparently being SSBlue tier. Sounds par for the course. Can't wait for Roshi to one shot Zeno soon.

Wait what? jsut because Caulifla deflected ONE ki blast you say it was weaker. The fight ended there cuz she calmed down

[ekrolo2]

So Kale's Berserker form goes from weaker then SS2 to apparently being SSBlue tier. Sounds par for the course. Can't wait for Roshi to one shot Zeno soon.

Wait what? jsut because Caulifla deflected ONE ki blast you say it was weaker. The fight ended there cuz she calmed down

Kale is an insane berserker rage monster who can't control her power, unless her power randomly drops to a level where she's just SS2 level, this is exactly like Goku becoming strong enough to overpower Merged Zamasu in a beam struggle because reasons: someone stronger for no justified reason through the story.

[Kishido]

So Kale's Berserker form goes from weaker then SS2 to apparently being SSBlue tier. Sounds par for the course. Can't wait for Roshi to one shot Zeno soon.

Wait what? jsut because Caulifla deflected ONE ki blast you say it was weaker. The fight ended there cuz she calmed down

Kale is an insane berserker rage monster who can't control her power, unless her power randomly drops to a level where she's just SS2 level, this is exactly like Goku becoming strong enough to overpower Merged Zamasu in a beam struggle because reasons: someone stronger for no justified reason through the story.

Sow hy has she calmed down? Or where have you seen a fighter against SUper Saiyan 2 Caulifla?

[ekrolo2]

Wait what? jsut because Caulifla deflected ONE ki blast you say it was weaker. The fight ended there cuz she calmed down

Kale is an insane berserker rage monster who can't control her power, unless her power randomly drops to a level where she's just SS2 level, this is exactly like Goku becoming strong enough to overpower Merged Zamasu in a beam struggle because reasons: someone stronger for no justified reason through the story.

Sow hy has she calmed down? Or where have you seen a fighter against SUper Saiyan 2 Caulifla?

She didn't calm down when she tried to kill Cabba, she tossed a ball at him and Caulifla, an SSJ2 manages to deflect it. Here? Kale eats a SSBlue Kamehameha like its nothing.

[Kishido]

Kale is an insane berserker rage monster who can't control her power, unless her power randomly drops to a level where she's just SS2 level, this is exactly like Goku becoming strong enough to overpower Merged Zamasu in a beam struggle because reasons: someone stronger for no justified reason through the story.

Sow hy has she calmed down? Or where have you seen a fighter against SUper Saiyan 2 Caulifla?

She didn't calm down when she tried to kill Cabba, she tossed a ball at him and Caulifla, an SSJ2 manages to deflect it. Here? Kale eats a SSBlue Kamehameha like its nothing.

Yeah again and where it is shown that she is Super Saiyan 2 level? She never FOUGHT a Super Saiyan 2 before

[ekrolo2]

Sow hy has she calmed down? Or where have you seen a fighter against SUper Saiyan 2 Caulifla?

She didn't calm down when she tried to kill Cabba, she tossed a ball at him and Caulifla, an SSJ2 manages to deflect it. Here? Kale eats a SSBlue Kamehameha like its nothing.

Yeah again and where it is shown that she is Super Saiyan 2 level? She never FOUGHT a Super Saiyan 2 before

A fucking SS2 level fighter (Caulifla) deflects her blast! While she's trying to kill Cabba the same way she's trying to kill Goku! Do you really think Caulifla and Cabba would be alive still if the show didn't make her SS2 level?

[Kishido]

She didn't calm down when she tried to kill Cabba, she tossed a ball at him and Caulifla, an SSJ2 manages to deflect it. Here? Kale eats a SSBlue Kamehameha like its nothing.

Yeah again and where it is shown that she is Super Saiyan 2 level? She never FOUGHT a Super Saiyan 2 before

A fucking SS2 level fighter (Caulifla) deflects her blast! While she's trying to kill Cabba the same way she's trying to kill Goku! Do you really think Caulifla and Cabba would be alive still if the show didn't make her SS2 level?

Holy shit and Kirllin fought a Super Saiyan and struggled with a Blue Kamehameha.

If we are at it... Master Roshi destroyed the moon in the very first tournament. He was nearly Frieza level already

And as you yourself said. She deflected a ki blasts... But their was no damn fight after it. Nothing... Have you seen Caulifla trying to attack her? Goku was able to deflect and block some attacks as well in Super Saiysn 2...

[ekrolo2]

Yeah again and where it is shown that she is Super Saiyan 2 level? She never FOUGHT a Super Saiyan 2 before

A fucking SS2 level fighter (Caulifla) deflects her blast! While she's trying to kill Cabba the same way she's trying to kill Goku! Do you really think Caulifla and Cabba would be alive still if the show didn't make her SS2 level?

Holy shit and Kirllin fought a Super Saiyan and struggled with a Blue Kamehameha.

If we are at it... Master Roshi destroyed the moon in the very first tournament. He was nearly Frieza level already

And as you yourself said. She deflected a ki blasts... But their was no damn fight after it. Nothing... Have you seen Caulifla trying to attack her? Goku was able to deflect and block some attacks as well in Super Saiysn 2...

Krillin not getting one-shotted in Super is bad all on its own, it doesn't excuse this. Roshi needs to use absolutely all of his power to do that, Freeza can annihilate a planet with a finger, that's the difference.

She shouldn't be able to deflect ki blasts from a Blue level fighter. If the scene had Kale beating on Cabba and Caulifla pulled a Piccolo while she was distracted and bonked her in the head, that would've been fine, but Kale's power randomly drops from Blue to 2 just so Kale can deflect a blast meant to vaporize Cabba.

[Kishido]

A fucking SS2 level fighter (Caulifla) deflects her blast! While she's trying to kill Cabba the same way she's trying to kill Goku! Do you really think Caulifla and Cabba would be alive still if the show didn't make her SS2 level?

Holy shit and Kirllin fought a Super Saiyan and struggled with a Blue Kamehameha.

If we are at it... Master Roshi destroyed the moon in the very first tournament. He was nearly Frieza level already

And as you yourself said. She deflected a ki blasts... But their was no damn fight after it. Nothing... Have you seen Caulifla trying to attack her? Goku was able to deflect and block some attacks as well in Super Saiysn 2...

Krillin not getting one-shotted in Super is bad all on its own, it doesn't excuse this. Roshi needs to use absolutely all of his power to do that, Freeza can annihilate a planet with a finger, that's the difference.

She shouldn't be able to deflect ki blasts from a Blue level fighter. If the scene had Kale beating on Cabba and Caulifla pulled a Piccolo while she was distracted and bonked her in the head, that would've been fine, but Kale's power randomly drops from Blue to 2 just so Kale can deflect a blast meant to vaporize Cabba.

Again Goku was able to block some of her attacks as well in SSJ2 form. She should have been OHKOed with the very first attack

[ekrolo2]

Holy shit and Kirllin fought a Super Saiyan and struggled with a Blue Kamehameha.

If we are at it... Master Roshi destroyed the moon in the very first tournament. He was nearly Frieza level already

And as you yourself said. She deflected a ki blasts... But their was no damn fight after it. Nothing... Have you seen Caulifla trying to attack her? Goku was able to deflect and block some attacks as well in Super Saiysn 2...

Krillin not getting one-shotted in Super is bad all on its own, it doesn't excuse this. Roshi needs to use absolutely all of his power to do that, Freeza can annihilate a planet with a finger, that's the difference.

She shouldn't be able to deflect ki blasts from a Blue level fighter. If the scene had Kale beating on Cabba and Caulifla pulled a Piccolo while she was distracted and bonked her in the head, that would've been fine, but Kale's power randomly drops from Blue to 2 just so Kale can deflect a blast meant to vaporize Cabba.

Again Goku was able to block some of her attacks as well in SSJ2 form. She should have been OHKOed with the very first attack

Ye she should have actually. Especially because Goku just stands there like a moron smirking at her when she goes for him, meaning he was kind of off guard too.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

From the looks of it, SSBeserk Kale looks to definitely be a god-level fighter. Honestly, it makes sense with my own personal scaling, assuming Kale's base form is anywhere at all close to her peers.

If I'm remembering correctly, SS Broly was only equal to the base Saiyans, then steamrolls the Super Saiyans in LSS. That, and my own personal headcanon is that SSBerserker is the same form as SSRage, albeit out of control and significantly powered up.

This, of course, also assumes the base Saiyans are super-strong and not weak like some people think.

[ssbgoku]

I hae watched last episode and I liked almost of all that beside the shit fan service with Kale going through goku ssb(I know he was supressed), by still. I am really angry about that because so far episodes of tournament made sense, until now... I can only see two possible scenario to that:

Fan service(Toei of his team going crazy/mindless): Ominikings > Grand Priest > Omni's guards > angels > Jiren > Bersekrer Kale ~ God of destructions > everyone else
Db lore set up power levels: Jiren > ssb goku 100% > ssb goku(supressed)/ss3 goku > Berseker Kale

anyway I wonder if akira Toryiama liked it at all or not. If not I would be great to hear his criticism about that even if it caused dbs to stop being produced for a while...
Quality always over Quanity

[Zeno's button]

From the looks of it, SSBeserk Kale looks to definitely be a god-level fighter. Honestly, it makes sense with my own personal scaling, assuming Kale's base form is anywhere at all close to her peers.

If I'm remembering correctly, SS Broly was only equal to the base Saiyans, then steamrolls the Super Saiyans in LSS. That, and my own personal headcanon is that SSBerserker is the same form as SSRage, albeit out of control and significantly powered up.

This, of course, also assumes the base Saiyans are super-strong and not weak like some people think.

Clearly god-level tier. She couldn't even hurt SS2 Goku (or damage his clothes, for that matter), but I think she's right there with the High Priest. With a bit of luck she could even take out one of the Zen-ohs.

[Bullza]

Honestly, it makes sense with my own personal scaling, assuming Kale's base form is anywhere at all close to her peers.

I figure Kale in Base form comes up quite short compared to the others. It might have been the position she was in but she was completely overpowered by Napapa, who was possibly below Basil, who was somewhat below Base Goku.

She also had trouble with that one scrub.

[SuperHumanGod]

From the looks of it, SSBeserk Kale looks to definitely be a god-level fighter. Honestly, it makes sense with my own personal scaling, assuming Kale's base form is anywhere at all close to her peers.

If I'm remembering correctly, SS Broly was only equal to the base Saiyans, then steamrolls the Super Saiyans in LSS. That, and my own personal headcanon is that SSBerserker is the same form as SSRage, albeit out of control and significantly powered up.

This, of course, also assumes the base Saiyans are super-strong and not weak like some people think.

Clearly god-level tier. She couldn't even hurt SS2 Goku (or damage his clothes, for that matter), but I think she's right there with the High Priest. With a bit of luck she could even take out one of the Zen-ohs.
[spoiler]

[/spoiler]

Exactly. How people can't see that Goku was holding back even in ss2 is beyond me. He let out a bit more power with blue, but he controlled it and lowered it too test out kale and see what she could do. He took zero damage and wants to challenge jiren, says it all.
I put kale at ss2 level, but with an uncontrolled anger, that pushes her forward, even when out matched.