Will end of Z be retconed in Super?

[DragonBallKing]

With all the new development's in Super do you think the tournement with Uub will be redone?

[Baggie_Saiyan]

EoZ hasn't happened in Super so it technically cannot be reconned. But will it happen? Yes, the dropped 2 Uub references now. Would it be exactly like the Manga's EoZ? Probably not, they will probably adjust it accordingly, though there isn't much tweaking needed, recently watched EoZ again and things seem like they can fit fine.

[Spencer_23]

Hope so. Definitely needs some changes and ideally Goku just doesn't leave with Uub randomly, end of Z was always very mediocre at best

[precita]

They'll probably just remake those 3 episodes in Super with changes just like Super re-do the two movie arcs.

[TheGreatness25]

I don't see what needs to be retconned about it. Vegeta doesn't fight, Goku doesn't fight all-out, and there's no need for all of the new characters to be there because... why does Beerus need to watch what Goku does in his spare time? There's really no need for any of that. Oob was said to have a lot of potential, but he was definitely not on-par with Goku then. So there really don't need to be any tweaks. They can remake the episodes and kind of focus on different characters' point of view but ultimately they can have the same fight and outcome of the Oob/Goku fight.

[MR.Mark]

The way I see it, the only thing that seems wonky is Bulma's "five years" line. Even then, the Super writers could get creative and find some new way for Goku to train that could fuck with time some how not unlike the ROSAT to make Bulma feel like she hadn't seen him in that long.

other than that, I agree with TheGreatness25, nothing else Super has done seems to clash with EOZ, Uub included.

[Chuquita]

I would like EoZ to be retconned, but I doubt it will. Uub is boring, I like EoZ Pan, but she gets abandoned by Gokû. Bra seemed cute, but is little more than a footnote. The only thing the kanzenban retcons is it unretires Vegeta, but what's the point if there's nothing that comes after.

[precita]

Guys, they're just going to remake the episodes, it's not that complicated. They did the same thing with the two movies when they remade them into Super episodes.

They'll probably keep Bulma's design from Super and removed the 5 years line. We might see Mai cheer for Trunks from the stands, assuming they're dating. Beerus/Whis don't even need to be there. I also hope 18 doesn't keep that hideous haircut of hers, but thats also another thing.

[MR.Mark]

I'm not saying that couldn't work, but there's no guarantee that Toei will remake episodes from there most popular cash cow Z just for Super's sake.

EDIT

The only way I see them remaking EOZ is in movie form, with the tournament and meeting/flying off with Ubb being the first act. Then the rest of the film can be a new adventure with a new big bad to deal with etc.

[Beek King]

Toyotaro said it stays as it is. MAYBE if they do decide to go past it after they might change like tiny inconsequential details, or retcon some additional events behind the scenes (like the backup time machine thing with Trunks' future).

[MR.Mark]

Personally I think my EOZ movie idea is too good that I'm probably setting myself up for disappointment. It would be a great final for the Super series as well, since I think that if they go past EOZ , the Super title should be dropped and a new series should be made.

Just think of it, a Super EOZ movie where instead of feeling like an abrupt ending with Goku flying off with Ubb, is merely the beginning leading into a new arc. It would would be a great chance to do something special with Uub while still keeping the rest of the cast around of course. As I'd assume most of his training would be done off screen with a focus being on the action and where the story goes from there.

[Robo4900]

I find it utterly stupid that people are still talking about this.

The events at the end of Z were in the manga, the original version of Z, and Kai. They're not going to retcon it. At worst, a couple of lines from the original version will be rendered continuity mistakes, and they'll end up doing a redrawn version sometime in Super that roughly covers the events in a highly abridged fashion, with slightly different dialogue.

I don't see any way they could bring Super to that point and not take it in the same direction that Z/Kai/the manga took it.

[MR.Mark]

I find it utterly stupid that people are still talking about this.

You're right, we need another power level discussion!

Toei will have to do something either way, I know Super is doing well, and even Nozawa wishes it to run for a long time. However the show is a interquil, if they go past EOZ and the show is still called Super is would feel kinda odd to me.

[sintzu]

No, I think we'll just get a different EOZ, one that takes the new events into account. I think the basic plot will be the same (Goku leaving with Uub) but there'll be other things going on like Whis there eating, maybe Vegeta going to train with him when Goku leaves, etc.

With the comments made by Nozawa, I think it's possible we'll go past it though.

[emperior]

I hope they will reanimate manga's chapters 518-519, by changing Bulma's 5 years line and any other possible inconstintency Super may create with EoZ.
By animating EoZ in the new style they would already have a few episodes scripted and storyboarded, so that would also help out the schedule, I think.

[TheGreatness25]

Why would Beerus and Whis have to be involved in the Tenkaichi Budokai of all things? You think they care about being there among those weaklings? Beerus and Whis don't have to be hanging around for everything that the characters do. So there's no reason to stick them into the end of Z. There is nothing that needs to be changed except for two pieces of dialog: Bulma saying that she hasn't seen Goku in five years, and Vegeta doubting Goku regarding Oob. That's it. Everything else can stay the same. I mean it'll look strange given that Trunks and Goten are going to grow up so fast, but that's the path that Super has chosen to take.

And you know, I don't even think it should go past end of Z unless they do a big time skip. I mean it would come off looking a bit pointless to go off with Oob just to have something go down that would immediately bring Goku back into the fray. r if they want to do something, they can have an isolated issue that only happens to Goku and Oob and they meet a bunch of new characters. But end of Z was created with the end in mind, so I think that's a good cut-off point.

I don't understand why this is a thing. It's been brought up since Super started. How would end of Z be influenced at all? Short of a character dying or severely changing how they look, there's zero that would give reason to believe that end of Z wouldn't happen. Why? Because Goku didn't use Super Saiyan Blue? Because there's no Whis or Beerus? Because Goku is much stronger in Super than supposedly in end of Z? All things that don't have to mean anything for the simple fact that all of the new characters don't have to pal around at the Tenkaichi Budokai and Goku didn't even turn Super Saiyan and was holding back. There is no reason to think that it would get retconned and if it does, then it would rub me the wrong way even more.

[Robo4900]

My main problem with the idea of Super going past the end of Z is that it would leave GT in the dust somewhat.

On one hand, this isn't a huge problem as GT is still an enjoyable alternate view of how Dragon Ball continues past its original end, much like how the filler in DB and Z provides a cool look at what the characters were doing during the training for the Saiyan arrival, the lead-up to the Cell games, etc., and even if these things don't necessarily fit into the new canon, it kind of puts all these things into one place; you can either watch the new, streamlined timeline of DB, Kai, and Super, or you can watch the original timeline of DB, Z, GT, the three TV specials, and Dead Zone. Both have their up-sides and down-sides, but ultimately both are valid.

On the other hand, I have a feeling they might end up reusing some concepts from GT, particularly if Toyotaro is allowed to have some input, which would then provide a sort of "Canon" version of GT, which would basically just be a massive kick in the balls to all GT's fans, and everyone who worked on it. Putting all potential jokes aside, a lot of talent went into GT; despite what you may think of its storytelling, the animation and music was excellent, some of the best in the franchise, and even though the story had its problems, a lot of people put a whole lot of effort into that. And naturally, GT does have its fans. So, it would be pretty unfair to screw all these people over.

So here's my view; if they go past the end of Z, -- which I think we can be pretty certain they will, -- they should do something entirely new with it, and basically zero in on the idea that GT and this new post-Z content are entirely different things. So, no Super Saiyan 4, no Baby, no Super #17, no Evil Dragons. If you want any of that stuff, you can just watch GT. This thing won't sound like GT, it won't look like GT, and most of the people who worked on GT wouldn't be involved, so it should stay away from GT.

[WittyUsername]

Probably not. Toriyama seems to consider the epilogue with Oob to be the definitive ending for the Dragon Ball franchise, and they've already dropped a couple of references to Oob.

[sintzu]

My main problem with the idea of Super going past the end of Z is that it would leave GT in the dust somewhat.

I have a feeling they might end up reusing some concepts from GT, which would basically just be a massive kick in the balls to all GT's fans, and everyone who worked on it.

So here's my view; if they go past the end of Z, -- which I think we can be pretty certain they will, -- they should do something entirely new with it.

GT's been left behind since BOG.

How so ? if they remake it or something to fit with the new content we've been getting wouldn't that show they respect the people involved with it and like their ideas ?

You're forgetting that there's 5 years between EOZ and GT so there's plenty they can do without touching GT.

Probably not. Toriyama seems to consider the epilogue with Oob to be the definitive ending for the Dragon Ball franchise, and they've already dropped a couple of references to Oob.

Toriyama said in a recent interview that the ending is written to show that Goku's fights are over so he may just stay in the 10 years before EOZ but that doesn't mean others won't go beyond it once he's done.

[Robo4900]

GT's been left behind since BOG.

BoG is a standalone movie, which had one sequel. In theory, the only ground it has on the Broly trilogy is that people liked it, and Toriyama presented the story outline. Plus, IIRC BoG didn't really contradict GT that much; the only contradiction is the fact the Pilaf gang are young, which could easily be refuted by saying they made a wish to be "Old again", which backfired and made them old. Everything else can be easily explained -- Beerus goes back to sleep, so he doesn't come up again; the Super Saiyan God form blends in with Goku's base and standard Super Saiyan forms, and simply makes him stronger; BoG was only a few weeks or months after Kid Boo's defeat anyway, so no one seeing Goku for years still basically lines up...
Things only get thrown out of whack with RF. And while Super and RF present bigger contradictions, ultimately this whole wave of content is an interquel between the end of the Boo arc, and the start of the Peaceful World Saga, while GT is a truer sequel to Z, meaning they take up different spaces in the continuity. So while they don't work with each-other, they're fundamentally different approaches to following up the original Dragon Ball story, so they ultimately occupy different canon space, so neither really supersedes the other.

How so ? if they remake it or something to fit with the new content we've been getting wouldn't that show they respect the people involved with it and like their ideas ?

Not really, they're still disrespecting the guys who were writing the scripts, they're disrespecting Tokunaga's work putting together the score for GT, they're disrespecting the voice actors' work from 20 years ago, and and it's a punch in the face to all the GT fans.
Besides, surely there are other stories they can tell after Z. GT's stories were already told, retelling them wouldn't be very creative.

You're forgetting that there's 5 years between EOZ and GT so there's plenty they can do without touching GT.

My point was more about redoing GT storylines anyway. I'm still not hugely happy about the idea of going past the end of Z in a way that contradicts GT(Which, at this point, unless they do away with the god forms, the gods of destruction, the angels, the Omni-King, and the parallel universes, is going to happen if they go past the end of Z), but again, as long as they don't redo GT storylines, it becomes clear they're presenting an alternative to GT, and not a replacement for it, which I think is just fine, and probably the only way they'll truly further the franchise in its current form.