Do you consider the Boo arc better than Super?

[ABED]

So what? None of that disproves the idea that the Genki Dama needs a hell of a lot of ki to destroy an enemy. All we have to go on is the only successful one, which was against Buu.

Not saying it disproves, but it certainly does put a question mark on whether Gohan is strong enough to one shot pure Buu.

Only if you choose to believe that the Genki dama takes ALL of a person's power/it doesn't take a lot of ki to destroy an enemy with the attack.

Also are you choosing to ignore Goku being afraid of Super buu but willing and able to fight equally with Pure Buu?

Seriously what was the point of Gohan's ultimate power up? You seriously don't believe he was the strongest unfused character at that point in the story?

Either you are unwilling to read or you have reading comprehension problems. This has ceased being enjoyable because it's not a give and take. I've mentioned several times that the Genki Dama used in the Buu arc used every bit of SPARABLE energy, not all of it. Any attack just needs to be stronger than the one getting hit by it. I have no idea what the hell your point is with that last sentence. Of course it would take a lot of ki to destroy Buu. How does that preclude Gohan's ki alone being enough to power up the Genki Dama?

[MR.Mark]

But you argued that if Gohan could one shot Buu why was his energy not enough for the Genkidama...

[ABED]

But you argued that if Gohan could one shot Buu why was his energy not enough for the Genkidama...

And? Your point doesn't make any sense. Why would it matter if Gohan killed Buu himself or if the Genki Dama made up of his spareable energy killed him? If Gohan is as strong as you claim then surely an attack that's nearly as powerful as him is strong enough to destroy Buu. It doesn't need to be as powerful as Gohan, just more powerful than Buu, but since you claim Gohan is without a doubt stronger then why isn't it logically enough to destroy Buu?

[MR.Mark]

But you argued that if Gohan could one shot Buu why was his energy not enough for the Genkidama...

And? Your point doesn't make any sense. Why would it matter if Gohan killed Buu himself or if the Genki Dama made up of his sparable energy killed him?

Once again, it would make more sense because Gohan has the power to kill pure Buu while using the genki dama was gambling for no other reason than for Toriyama to give the win to Goku.

[ABED]

Please answer my question first then I'll address your point for the millionth time. I'm referring to the final question in the last post.

[MR.Mark]

but since you claim Gohan is without a doubt stronger then why isn't it logically enough to destroy Buu?

...Beacuse

A Genki Dama must be much more powerful to destroy an opponent/ people that donate don't give 100% of there ki to it.

Do you believe that Ultimate Gohan is weaker than SSJ3 Goku?

[ABED]

That's not how it works. The Genki Dama just has to be stronger than the person it hits. It doesn't matter where it gets its energy from. If Gohan is strong enough to 1 shot Buu like you claim, then it wouldn't need anywhere near 100% of Gohan's energy. I never claimed or even implied that the Genki Dama takes 100% of a person's ki. You seem intent on ignoring the Genki Dama used against Buu took as everyone's spareable energy. Do you not believe Gohan has enough spareable energy to defeat Buu on his own? If so, then how could he one shot Buu?

Do you believe that Ultimate Gohan is weaker than SSJ3 Goku?

What is with the emoticon? Did you already decide that I believe that? No, I don't think Gohan is weaker than SS3 Goku.

[CrazyPenguin]

I conciser any arc of DBZ better then DragoBall Super

not to mention birth of Vegito and him vs Super Buu. Nothing in DB Super currently can compare to that

[MR.Mark]

The Genki Dama just has to be stronger than the person it hits.

Exactly, it needs to be stronger than even the amount of ki that Gohan can donate, simple logic.

No, I don't think Gohan is weaker than SS3 Goku.

OK now we're getting somewhere, then that obviously means you believe he is at least considerably stronger than a Goku that fought pure Buu equally. SO, by that logic, AGAIN, WHY does it make more sense not to bring Gohan in for help vs using that damn attack?

Let's see, you're varying excuses have been:

-They're not super heros (even though they are fighting to save everyone as stated by Vegeta)
-THEY wanted to beat Buu (Even though they relied on the Earth for Help)
-Gohan can't one shot/defeat Buu (Even though you agree he's stronger than Goku)

Am I leaving anything else out?

[ABED]

How does one compare one arc to an entire series? It's apples and oranges.

[Trickster]

It's not like so many revivals these days where they completely strip the characters of their development only to bring them back to square one.

You described DBS perfectly (and I know you don't even watch it). They do this to all the characters, mainly to Vegeta.

[Lord Beerus]

It's not like so many revivals these days where they completely strip the characters of their development only to bring them back to square one.

You described DBS perfectly (and I know you don't even watch it). They do this to all the characters, mainly to Vegeta.

If anything, Vegeta has best most consistently well characterized in the show. The only character that Super is keen on restating its development on is Krillin. Everyone else has been fine.

[MR.Mark]

How does one compare one arc to an entire series? It's apples and oranges.

Was that directed at me or are you now ignoring my posts?

Well I would say the Buu arc was more entertaining then the ROF arc. Certain character moments form the Buu arc were better than the BOG arc too.

[ABED]

How does one compare one arc to an entire series? It's apples and oranges.

Was that directed at me or are you now ignoring my posts?

Well I would say the Buu arc was more entertaining then the ROF arc. Certain character moments form the Buu arc were better than the BOG arc too.

I'm now ignoring your posts as I think it's fruitless. It's not a personal attack. I simply think you ignore previous statements I've made. You don't have agree with them, but I make the same points several times and you claim I've either not said anything on the matter or claim I've said the opposite.

[VegettoEX]

I'm now ignoring your posts as I think it's fruitless.

Do not make comments like these. Either report a post that you feel does not live up to the spirit of the community guidelines, or simply ignore it and move on without adding to the noise yourself.

[ABED]

I'm now ignoring your posts as I think it's fruitless.

Do not make comments like these. Either report a post that you feel does not live up to the spirit of the community guidelines, or simply ignore it and move on without adding to the noise yourself.

Sorry, I didn't think that was neccessarily rude, especially after expanding upon the initial post after you had posted this. I'll take this to PM.

[MR.Mark]

Well I asked an honest question since the post seemed vague, ether way I contributed to the topic anyway. No noise on my end, just backing up my arguments.

There's no more debate to be had on the matter anyway. I will not continue this into PM either because I've more than proved my points time and time again.

[Trickster]

It's not like so many revivals these days where they completely strip the characters of their development only to bring them back to square one.

You described DBS perfectly (and I know you don't even watch it). They do this to all the characters, mainly to Vegeta.

If anything, Vegeta has best most consistently well characterized in the show. The only character that Super is keen on restating its development on is Krillin. Everyone else has been fine.

Vegeta's arc was pretty much concluded at the end of DB. He admited Goku was "the number one" and put aside their rivalty. In DBS he acts like a tsundere, sometimes he is concerned about his family and doesn't want to fight (like when Bra was born) and sometimes he is: "Grrr damn Kakarott, I will surpass you!". It's not just inconsistent but incoherent too.

[Lord Beerus]

You described DBS perfectly (and I know you don't even watch it). They do this to all the characters, mainly to Vegeta.

If anything, Vegeta has best most consistently well characterized in the show. The only character that Super is keen on restating its development on is Krillin. Everyone else has been fine.

Vegeta's arc was pretty much concluded at the end of DB. He admited Goku was "the number one" and put aside their rivalty. In DBS he acts like a tsundere, sometimes he is concerned about his family and doesn't want to fight (like when Bra was born) and sometimes he is: "Grrr damn Kakarott, I will surpass you!". It's not just inconsistent but incoherent too.

We don't actually know what Vegeta was doing from the end of Majin Boo arc to the final chapter in the manga. He may have still be training with the secret desire of wanting to keep with Goku. There isn't enough context in the original story to suggest that after he admitted that Goku was "number 1", he just resided to that fact and stopped training because he's fine with status quo of being forever second banana to Goku. Vegeta knows that Goku for the moment is his superior but that doesn't equate to Vegeta residing to never wanting to improve himself. That is further emphasized with the Kanzenban ending of the final chapter in the manga where Vegeta states that he still wants to defeat Goku, and by that virtue, he wants to become as strong, if not, stronger than Goku. That desire of wanting to improve himself is still there.

Vegeta brings up wanting to surpass Goku, more than any other character because reaching Goku's strength was understandably the most realistic goal for him given that Goku had become the strongest character in the central cast, considering Beerus had not aligned himself with the Z-Warriors yet and Whis was super vague about how powerful he was.

Also, Vegeta knows that Goku always finds way to improve himself in fashions that Vegeta didn't think was possible. He did it with full power SSJ, he did it with SSJ3 and he does it again with stacking Kaioken, with a multiplier of tenfold no less, on top of Super Saiyan Blue. He focuses more on Goku because he knows better than anyone else that he's the person, more than anyone other character in the central cast that will find a way to break though all the glass ceilings power he encounters in the most improbable way. And with how much Vegeta got stronger since training with Whis for 6 months he fairly assumed that under the tutelage of Whis that Goku would become monstrously more powerful in a shorter span of time.

When Goku pulled of the Kaioken/Super Saiyan Blue combo Vegeta is understandably annoyed about it given how dangerous the Kaioken technique, especially is when you multiply it, especially on top of another form, and Goku being able to pull it off perfectly, despite the major risks. Plus, given the fact that Whis outright stated that Vegeta was still a step behind Goku, knowing Goku could do such a thing would naturally be a kick in the teeth for him, as for all intents and purposes Vegeta finally reached level pecking with Goku after training as hard as he did and the both of them achieving Super Saiyan Blue. It's not like in the Android/Cell arc where half the time all Vegeta did was angst over Goku being stronger then him and would often do things in spite as a reaction to Goku surpassing him. He was just frustrated more than anything that Goku will essentially always have that ace up his sleeve to keep some kind distance between himself and Vegeta. We even have everyone else in the attendance of the tournament react in either amazement or confusion at what Goku was doing. So it's not as if what Goku was doing with the SSJB/KK deal was any basic trick someone could do which somehow offended Vegeta. It was unique ability that really only Goku could possibly pull off, and Vegeta was understandably shocked and perturbed by what he witnessed Goku. Especially since Vegeta first hand knowledge of the mechanics of the Kaioken technique. Hell, after that whole event Vegeta acts like nothing has happened and just about his business. He's not stewing about the whole SSJB/KK or mentions anything that happened in the Champa arc or talks about wanting to surpass Goku again.

We're talking about a character who is willing to literally throw his life away for a chance to avenge his pride against Goku in the Majin Boo arc. The progress into being friendly rivals who use each other to measure their personal growth is progress indeed. Vegeta doesn't need to be completely indifferent to Goku's ability and his progression of strength. It's just no longer the sole factor in determining his self-worth.

[ABED]

Vegeta's arc was pretty much concluded at the end of DB. He admited Goku was "the number one" and put aside their rivalty.

That's your reading, not mine. In my mind, it's simply Vegeta putting aside his insecurities, not his competitive side. There's competition between he and Goku, but it's healthier. It's the difference between Apollo Creed in Rocky II and Apollo in Rocky III.