Goku Jr. and Vegeta Jr.

[Xyex]

Look, it's simple. Gohan CAN NOT transform after he gets his 'Mystic' power-up. Why? Because he's already transformed in order to access the Mystic form. The old Kai told him 'do that thing you do' IE to transform. So, he did. And now he's mystic. And there is no more SSJ forms for him.

Don't you think that if he could transform he would have against Gotenks Buu instead of running from him for 30 minutes and nearly getting himself killed?

So, yeah. Balantly obvious.

[Shenron]

Ok, my turn.

The old Kaio tells Gohan to do the same thing he does when he becomes SSJ to achieve the ritual, to switch his power on or something like that.

Then, he's supposed to have unlocked his full potential, and since it's the purpose of the SSJ transformation, it becomes useless and disappears. So, "Mystic" Gohan is not transformed, he's in his base form, and his appearance changes because he has grown up, both physically and mentally.

During the fight against Buu, he cannot transform because he doesn't have any hidden power left. But after ? Two possibilities :

-The Old Kaio has really unlocked Gohan's full potential, and his power can't increase, even with a lot of training. So he'll never be able to go SSJ anymore.

-The Old Kaio's ritual is only an improved version of the Namek's Elder one, and with a lot of training, Gohan is still be able to increase his power, and become SSJ again eventually.

Anyway, since he obviously stopped training after the fight against Buu, he should not be able to go SSJ in GT. So in any case, the "Mystic" state is permanent. But it's not a transformation.

[Godo]

I don't see whatever it is you want me to see.
He looks PRETTY MUCH the same to me in all of the pictures.
The Image I have in the manga, makes it look like "Mystic" has the SSJ Shaped Eyes, like how Goku and Gohan don't have fully closed and angled eyes when they're normal, but when they go SSJ, their eyes become angular and close up, and that's Really the ONLY change. if I'm missing something tell me. but yeah, his Eyes change into the "SSJ" eyes when he's Mystic, but the Picture of Older Gohan on that Daizenshuu page has him with his NORMAL eyes again, so he's Obviously NOT Mystic in that pic (look close, they're Opened on the sides, it's hard to see tho, cuz of his glasses)
And even if he is Still Mystic after all these years, it doesn't mean he CAN'T go SSJ, it just means that he DOESN'T.

Just take a look at this picture again, where he is mystic:



Excactly this image exists in the manga:



In both pictures he is Mystic, no doubt.

Never in the manga, in the Buu saga, he is shown non-Mystic with those clothes, nor in the anime.

And I can state that with my last picture, he stays Mystic until we see him again (my last picture). Those above pictures are identical face-wise.

And as I think Rocketman said, if he could go SSJ, he would have done that against Gotenks-Buu when he was loosing and had all Universe's faith on his shoulders.

EDIT: And he got his Mystic transformation by going SSJ, so the "slot" is taken.

[DemonRin]

ok, whether or not he can aside for a moment.
I keep telling you, that I'm not seeing what in those pictures is "Proof" that he's Mystic, and even when I outright SAY that, you're just showing me Pictures going "He's CLEARLY Mystic Here"
WHAT PART OF THE IMAGES IS DIFFERENT ABOUT NORMAL GOHAN!! the only thing I can see is the way his EYES ARE DRAWN, and as far as I can see, his Eyes Look normal again in the LAST CHAPTER.
so, forget what I think about the transformation for a second, forget it, it's a non-issue. Explain what it is I'm looking for in the picture that is the dead Giveaway he's Mystic, instead of just showing another picture in my face going "look at this, He's CLEARLY Mystic"

[VegettoEX]

ok, whether or not he can aside for a moment.
I keep telling you, that I'm not seeing what in those pictures is "Proof" that he's Mystic, and even when I outright SAY that, you're just showing me Pictures going "He's CLEARLY Mystic Here"
WHAT PART OF THE IMAGES IS DIFFERENT ABOUT NORMAL GOHAN!! the only thing I can see is the way his EYES ARE DRAWN, and as far as I can see, his Eyes Look normal again in the LAST CHAPTER.
so, forget what I think about the transformation for a second, forget it, it's a non-issue. Explain what it is I'm looking for in the picture that is the dead Giveaway he's Mystic, instead of just showing another picture in my face going "look at this, He's CLEARLY Mystic"

Please be more careful in your writing. You are expected to type properly, and not cop an attitude. Thanks!

[Godo]

ok, whether or not he can aside for a moment.
I keep telling you, that I'm not seeing what in those pictures is "Proof" that he's Mystic, and even when I outright SAY that, you're just showing me Pictures going "He's CLEARLY Mystic Here"
WHAT PART OF THE IMAGES IS DIFFERENT ABOUT NORMAL GOHAN!! the only thing I can see is the way his EYES ARE DRAWN, and as far as I can see, his Eyes Look normal again in the LAST CHAPTER.
so, forget what I think about the transformation for a second, forget it, it's a non-issue. Explain what it is I'm looking for in the picture that is the dead Giveaway he's Mystic, instead of just showing another picture in my face going "look at this, He's CLEARLY Mystic"

Nevermind, you don't get it. At all. Just re-read al the posts in this topic. And, oh, re-read the manga aswell when you're at it.

[Dragon Ball Daisuki]

While I'm not entirely sure how this issue sprung about from the original topic (of all things, Goku Jr. and Vegeta Jr.) it's clear that this is a different Son Gohan than that which was introduced at the outset of the arc, and that he REMAINED different through the conclusion of the series. Some of its a significant, physical change... but mostly its the sort of air he wears about him. Something in the eyes. Just completely focused, no internal struggles, stronger personality, etc. In a word: utter and complete mastery.

But for all the purists out there, his muscles do become more dense, and he gets a little bigger. All in all, it's just a more mature Gohan. When he was training with the Z-Sword, he was a sixteen year old, and his appearance certainly matched that description. But here, he looks more like a nineteen or twenty year old. There's no second-guessing that this is Gohan the man. Not the scared, polite boy who hid behind his friends all those years ago.

Damn, I wished he would've been the one to destroy Majin Boo!

:'[

[king jro]

ok so lets just say he was 'mystic' then why in the world did he seem so weak.
Is it cause 17 was so strong or did his strength greatly decrese because he

[Kaboom]

ok so lets just say he was 'mystic' then why in the world did he seem so weak.
Is it cause 17 was so strong or did his strength greatly decrese because he

Because GT made no sense. Gohan was left off as in that "Mystic" state at the end of Z, the single most powerful (non-fused, of course) hero. Yet somehow he was pretty much back to his Pre-Boo self in GT, with Super Saiyan mysteriously back and everything. But he wasn't supposed to be. Toei majorly screwed up. It's one of GT's BIGGEST plot holes.

[Dragon Ball Daisuki]

That, and it would call for Gohan to become the central hero once more, which Toei was never prepared to do. The Boo arc ended the way it did for a reason; the fans love Goku to a fault.

[Rocketman]

Damn, I wished he would've been the one to destroy Majin Boo!

But then there would be no Vegetto, and all would be much poorer for it.

[Dragon Ball Daisuki]

Haha, none of us would be here, talking about Dragon Ball, that's for sure! Hehe. "GohanEX" has substantially less of a ring to it.. :o

Notwithstanding, it would have been nice to see things go full-circle for Gohan. From the beginning, it seemed like that's where the series was going.

</super off-topic>

[The S]

In the Japanese version, he's not referred to by name in any of the dialogue. However, I'm pretty sure the dub had written Goku Jr. to specifically refer to him as "Vegeta" at one point. In the end, what's the difference if his name was said or not? Vegeta Jr. is officially his name evidently, otherwise it wouldn't be continually used for him for nearly a decade.

Bringing things back to Goku Jr. and "Vegeta Jr."...

People have also referred to Vegeta Jr.'s mother as "Bulma Jr." for ages now. I'd like to see some evidence that that is indeed his name (like one of the Perfect Files or something). I'm not saying it isn't, I was just wondering where it was made official.

[Dark Vegeta-Sama]

Bringing things back to Goku Jr. and "Vegeta Jr."...

People have also referred to Vegeta Jr.'s mother as "Bulma Jr." for ages now. I'd like to see some evidence that that is indeed his name (like one of the Perfect Files or something). I'm not saying it isn't, I was just wondering where it was made official.

I'd like to know what (if any) details the GT Perfect Files give as well.

Though I doubt they get into it, it'd be interesting to find out who Vegeta Jr. and his mother are descended from (Trunks or Bra) and how much, if any, regard Vegeta Jr. has for the original Vegeta as his ancestor like Goku Jr. has for the original Goku. It's also a shame that we don't know whether Vegeta Jr. is the Great-Grandson or the Great-Great-Grandson of Vegeta.

It stands to reason that Vegeta Jr. would be more inclined to care about the importance of his Saiyan heritage as he gets older, although it's also possible that he wouldn't care very much since he is only 1/8 or 1/16 Saiyan and the pureblooded and half Saiyans have been deceased for decades.

[caejones]

Well, there's always the theory that Olivier Hague came across for Vegeta JR's lineage that was supposedly from Toriyama's thoughts...
I don't remember much of it off hand though other than it involved Tenshinhan and Lunch having a daughter. *looks for thread*