"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[Noah]

Also Yugioh is a bad example because the anime could not be more obviously being its own thing with stuff like Pegasus being alive and the whole post-Atem series. So whoever disregarfs anything in Yugioh probably does disregard stuff in Pokémon because they think the anime has to be like the games or the manga, etc.

I didn't thought about that, but was Pegasus death relevant to the plot in the main arcs? So filler in Pokémon is basically what is not show in the games, but is show in the anime? lol

17 did say he kept up with his training "it's not like i spent my whole time relaxing" this implies training, also my example is clear i'm talking about Gohan who went from buu saga tier to exchanging punches with ssb in the space of 2 hours and lets not forget about Frieza who was weaker than freaking ssj 1 and became god level by training with fodder for 3 months, but of course 17 training for over a decade that's where toei is crossing the line ? sure also you might wanna know that toei is not responsible for 17's power up it's Toriyama and the whole team agreed to it.

I'm not biased as you are, so I'm just going to say all the examples you brought about power growth were stupid.

Sure 17 could have trained, but by which method? Don't tell me he has a secret gym in the island that he worked out in that period, thus explaining going to Kamiccolo-tier to God-tier? They didn't needed to exaggerate his power in order to make him relevant again.

Gohan was also lame, but we also saw the guy training with Piccolo before the Champa arc and maybe after, he has the eternal excuse of hidden powers that many thought was settled when he got 'Mystic'. That should be the peak of his power, right? Well it was never implied he couldn't go beyond 'Mystic', but still in so little time being able to push Goku to SSJB is also stupid.

Should I even comment about Freeza? I mean he started with all those lame power-ups with little explanations, he's one of the reasons both RoF movie and arc were so terrible IMO. I can swallow he was a prodigy born with a great battle power, but how did he gotten stronger so fast? By simple push-ups, sit-ups and plenty of juice? Days torturing his soldier? None of these were convincing enough for me to believe in his huge power leap, but instead worked for me to realize how stupid he was to not train a little bit to crush Trunks and Goku like ants when he had the chance.


In the end it doesn't matter which one is worse, I don't like any as I think they could have been worked out better by the plot writers.

[MainJPW]

Wasn't the exact quote, "I'm gonna let out more power"?

No, this was a translation error even from Crunchyroll itself

I asked a user who knows Japanese here and Herms, and they confirmed that Goku said '' choto reki ireteikuzo, "which means '' to release A LITTLE more power.

Herms Answer:

https://twitter.com/Herms98/status/889710976848732161

Okay, great.

[Lapislettuce]

Also Yugioh is a bad example because the anime could not be more obviously being its own thing with stuff like Pegasus being alive and the whole post-Atem series. So whoever disregarfs anything in Yugioh probably does disregard stuff in Pokémon because they think the anime has to be like the games or the manga, etc.

I didn't thought about that, but was Pegasus death relevant to the plot in the main arcs? So filler in Pokémon is basically what is not show in the games, but is show in the anime? lol

17 did say he kept up with his training "it's not like i spent my whole time relaxing" this implies training, also my example is clear i'm talking about Gohan who went from buu saga tier to exchanging punches with ssb in the space of 2 hours and lets not forget about Frieza who was weaker than freaking ssj 1 and became god level by training with fodder for 3 months, but of course 17 training for over a decade that's where toei is crossing the line ? sure also you might wanna know that toei is not responsible for 17's power up it's Toriyama and the whole team agreed to it.

I'm not biased as you are, so I'm just going to say all the examples you brought about power growth were stupid.

Sure 17 could have trained, but by which method? Don't tell me he has a secret gym in the island that he worked out in that period, thus explaining going to Kamiccolo-tier to God-tier? They didn't needed to exaggerate his power in order to make him relevant again to the plot.

Gohan was also lame, but we also saw the guy training with Piccolo before the Champa arc and maybe after, he has the eternal excuse of hidden powers that many thought was settled when he got 'Mystic'. That should be the peak of his power, right? Well it was never implied he couldn't go beyond 'Mystic', but still in so little time being able to push Goku to SSJB is also stupid.

Should I even comment about Freeza? I mean he started with all those lame power-ups with little explanations, he's one of the reasons both RoF movie and arc were so terrible IMO. I can swallow he was a prodigy born with a great battle power, but how did he gotten stronger so fast? By simple push-ups, sit-ups and plenty of juice? Days torturing his soldier? None of these were convincing enough for me to believe in his huge power leap, but instead worked for me to realize how stupid he was to not train a little bit to crush Trunks and Goku like ants when he had the chance.


In the end it doesn't matter which one is worse, I don't like any as I think they could have been worked out better by the plot writers.

You're saying you're not biased but you defended Gohan's power up in your reply, sure he has "potential" Toriyama said 17's potential was enormous too, Toriyama created both Gohan and 17 so if he wants to give 17 the same excuse as Gohan he's free to do so.

[Cetra]

Also Yugioh is a bad example because the anime could not be more obviously being its own thing with stuff like Pegasus being alive and the whole post-Atem series. So whoever disregarfs anything in Yugioh probably does disregard stuff in Pokémon because they think the anime has to be like the games or the manga, etc.

I didn't thought about that, but was Pegasus death relevant to the plot in the main arcs? So filler in Pokémon is basically what is not show in the games, but is show in the anime? lol

Well, I do not know about the manga but from what I know Yami Bakura killing him was pretty inconsequential. In the anime he at least served his purpose here and there like in the Dartz arc or in GX and stuff.

And Pokémon is a really complicated thing. Pretty much everything is its own part. The manga, the anime, the games. I mean even nowadays people argue Ash's journey on the Orange Islands are non-canonical or filler because they are islands that have nothing to do with the leagues in the games. But there is no point in thinking so because Ash's anime really is one big anime juggernaut that can hardly be considered an adaption of the games (at least not traditionally). More like using it as blueprint and then filling in 100000s of ideas and thus giving Pokémon an actual story. People should really not act like the Pokémon anime actually is any less valid than the games considering it is the story of one and the same character that is constantly re-polished, developed, et cetera, et cetera and does not actually change to reflect the journey of the avatar that we have in the games as that is not what it is about but instead one long journey of a trainer that has experienced a lot (even though he also in a way restarts the journey but even then its him and not avatar x we know from this game and then the next one from that game, et cetera). It really is its own big thing. And that's how it should be. Or how I tend to call it: Every Pokémon thing (game, manga, anime) is another interpretation of the same world. Hence characters like Red and Ash, Green and Gary, et cetera who also are just different interpretations of the same idea. By the end of the day it all depends on what Nintendo wants and if they want an anime that is more than the games, so be it. Pokémon is also the perfect example to show that the original creator does not always have the say. Tajiri-san is not the only one who decides.

[Whatever]

Also Yugioh is a bad example because the anime could not be more obviously being its own thing with stuff like Pegasus being alive and the whole post-Atem series. So whoever disregarfs anything in Yugioh probably does disregard stuff in Pokémon because they think the anime has to be like the games or the manga, etc.

I didn't thought about that, but was Pegasus death relevant to the plot in the main arcs? So filler in Pokémon is basically what is not show in the games, but is show in the anime? lol

Well, I do not know about the manga but from what I know Yami Bakura killing him was pretty inconsequential. In the anime he at least served his purpose here and there like in the Dartz arc or in GX and stuff.

And Pokémon is a really complicated thing. Pretty much everything is its own part. The manga, the anime, the games. I mean even nowadays people argue Ash's journey on the Orange Islands are non-canonical or filler because they are islands that have nothing to do with the leagues in the games. But there is no point in thinking so because Ash's anime really is one big anime juggernaut that can hardly be considered an adaption of the games (at least not traditionally). More like using it as blueprint and then filling in 100000s of ideas and thus giving Pokémon an actual story. People should really not act like the Pokémon anime actually is any less valid than the games considering it is the story of one and the same character that is constantly re-polished, developed, et cetera, et cetera and does not actually change to reflect the journey of the avatar that we have in the games. It really is its own big thing. And that's how it should be. Or how I tend to call it: Every Pokémon thing (game, manga, anime) is another interpretation of the same world. Hence characters like Red and Ash, Green and Gary, et cetera who also are just different interpretations of the same idea.

In regards to the pokemon anime what is considering filler is something where nothing important happens,for example Ash and the gang helping a random person for an episode(if a pokemon evolves or learns a move during said episode then it is not filler).
The orange islands are canon to the anime but not to the games is the best you could say.Just like Kanto(the region)is canon both in the games and the anime as it exists in both versions.
Despite that the orange islands are canon since they had an impact on Ash's roster,as it caught one of his powerhouses Snorlax and Charizard started listening to Ash because of the events that happened in that arc.

[Cetra]

In regards to the pokemon anime what is considering filler is something where nothing important happens,for example Ash and the gang helping a random person for an episode(if a pokemon evolves or learns a move during said episode then it is not filler).
The orange islands are canon to the anime but not to the games is the best you could say.Just like Kanto(the region)is canon both in the games and the anime as it exists in both versions.
Despite that the orange islands are canon since they had an impact on Ash's roster,as it caught one of his powerhouses Snorlax and Charizard started listening to Ash because of the events that happened in that arc.

What you say is just one fan explanation of many that I have read on the internet though. It is nothing that was ever officially said by Nintendo to be the case. Fans also claim the Meitantei Konan movies are not canonical but the show says different. And Aoyama-san in some interviews with some ideas that he talked about also showed that he does also not see it like the fans. This is really all just fans arguing.

[Noah]

You're saying you're not biased but you defended Gohan's power up in your reply, sure he has "potential" Toriyama said 17's potential was enormous too, Toriyama created both Gohan and 17 so if he wants to give 17 the same excuse as Gohan he's free to do so.

Really? I never thought the usage of the words "was also lame" and "is also stupid" would made you assume I was defending Gohan. 17's potential is vague was Freeza being a prodigy who never trained.

I don't care if it was Toriyama, Toei or Toyotaro, I don't like it as I believe they could have done better.

Well, I do not know about the manga but from what I know Yami Bakura killing him was pretty inconsequential. In the anime he at least served his purpose here and there like in the Dartz arc or in GX and stuff.

And Pokémon is a really complicated thing. Pretty much everything is its own part. The manga, the anime, the games. I mean even nowadays people argue Ash's journey on the Orange Islands are non-canonical or filler because they are islands that have nothing to do with the leagues in the games. But there is no point in thinking so because Ash's anime really is one big anime juggernaut that can hardly be considered an adaption of the games (at least not traditionally). More like using it as blueprint and then filling in 100000s of ideas and thus giving Pokémon an actual story. People should really not act like the Pokémon anime actually is any less valid than the games considering it is the story of one and the same character that is constantly re-polished, developed, et cetera, et cetera and does not actually change to reflect the journey of the avatar that we have in the games as that is not what it is about. It really is its own big thing. And that's how it should be. Or how I tend to call it: Every Pokémon thing (game, manga, anime) is another interpretation of the same world. Hence characters like Red and Ash, Green and Gary, et cetera who also are just different interpretations of the same idea.

I remember reading once about an arc about Pegasus's son wanting revenge but I don't know if was from a side manga or if was part of the main continuity, after GX, I never got much interested in the other spin-offs.

Oh I get it, well I think we can't use the word filler regarding the Pokémon anime then, I liked the Orange Islands arc, the different species due the island environment was interesting and I believe its idea was used to be based on the recent core games (Sun & Moon)

[Cetra]

I remember reading once about an arc about Pegasus's son wanting revenge but I don't know if was from a side manga or if was part of the main continuity, after GX, I never got much interested in the other spin-offs.

I don't know Takahashi-san's manga but it seems highly unlikely to me that Pegasus ever had a child. At least with Cyndia/Cecelia. And later? He was 24 when he dueled Atem and died (or lost the Millenium Eye and vanished for a while in the anime). I mean, in the anime it would be more plausible.

Oh I get it, well I think we can't use the word filler regarding the Pokémon anime then, I liked the Orange Islands arc, the different species due the island environment was interesting and I believe its idea was used to be based on the recent core games (Sun & Moon)

I don't even remember that. I have to get back to watching the old episodes. I was surprised a year ago about how solid that stuff was written despite being questionable at times.

It is similiar the same way to the Zelda manga. Does the Zelda manga have any relevance for the games? No. But they are another interpretation. And sometimes they expand upon it. You do not need to expect that it has any impact on the games as it is another interpretation but it is there, it uses the core ideas (so it actually will always be familiar in one or the other way) and tells something to people who want a bit more than a Link who almost never says anything or think that merely and Zelda game had story.

Of course it is kinda funny because in case of Pokémon the anime DOES influence the games. There is stuff like Ash Greninja or Red's team being modified to be like Ash's team and Pokémon Yellow and stuff.

[Whatever]

In regards to the pokemon anime what is considering filler is something where nothing important happens,for example Ash and the gang helping a random person for an episode(if a pokemon evolves or learns a move during said episode then it is not filler).
The orange islands are canon to the anime but not to the games is the best you could say.Just like Kanto(the region)is canon both in the games and the anime as it exists in both versions.
Despite that the orange islands are canon since they had an impact on Ash's roster,as it caught one of his powerhouses Snorlax and Charizard started listening to Ash because of the events that happened in that arc.

What you say is just one fan explanation of many that I have read on the internet though. It is nothing that was ever officially said by Nintendo to be the case. Fans also claim the Meitantei Konan movies are not canonical but the show says different. And Aoyama-san in some interviews with some ideas that he talked about also showed that he does also not see it like the fans. This is really all just fans arguing.

I don't think Nintendo needs to say anything.The anime,games,manga are all their own thing that have the same roots.Kinda Neko Majin,dragonball z and gt are all dragonball related but different things.
Of course in all those things they are a few easter eggs that pay homage to each other,for example Ash battling some avatar characters in the movies,Steven mentioning Alain in Oras and in the sun and moon games where a picture of Ash and Pikachu can be found.
As for the yugioh stuff,what Noah is talking about can be treated as a what if or spin off?Not sure about that.
Also the kids Noah is talking about are adopted by Pegasus.

[Cetra]

The anime,games,manga are all their own thing that have the same roots.

Exactly, they are their own big thing but how you were defining "filler" was something that was neither self-explanatory nor an official thing. Pokémon does not actually have a filler. All that stuff is part of Ash's journey, it is not needed for a manga to catch up or anything and in case you were equating "filler" with "doesn't count" like some other people do, that is also never indicated.

Also the kids Noah is talking about are adopted by Pegasus.

Where can I find that?

[incarnati0n]

I don't think it's good to compare the OG yu-gi-oh anime and manga situation to the way it is in Dragon Ball because in DB everything that has lacked involvement from AT has flopped hard of been straight mediocre while in Yu-GI-OH even stuff that was added that isn't present in the manga like for example the duel between yugi and joey in the first arc of the anime was straight gold and an excelent decision while in the manga it never got to happen.

[Noah]

As for the yugioh stuff, what Noah is talking about can be treated as a what if or spin off? Not sure about that.

I did a search here and it's called Yu-Gi-Oh! R and yes is a spin-off manga.

I don't think it's good to compare the OG yu-gi-oh anime and manga situation to the way it is in Dragon Ball because in DB everything that has lacked involvement from AT has flopped hard of been straight mediocre while in Yu-GI-OH even stuff that was added that isn't present in the manga like for example the duel between yugi and joey in the first arc of the anime was straight gold and an excelent decision while in the manga it never got to happen.

I didn't got into this that part yet, but Yugi vs. Joey in the Duelist Kingdom is absent in the manga? How could it be?

[Cetra]

I don't think it's good to compare the OG yu-gi-oh anime and manga situation to the way it is in Dragon Ball because in DB everything that has lacked involvement from AT has flopped hard of been straight mediocre while in Yu-GI-OH even stuff that was added that isn't present in the manga like for example the duel between yugi and joey in the first arc of the anime was straight gold and an excelent decision while in the manga it never got to happen.

Since when is it a fact that everything from Dragon Ball without Toriyama-san flopped hard? Despite GT - or for what its worth other things - having its own club of haters a lot of it did decently as well as had and still has its fans. So do the games. I mean, you can state your opinion about Yugi vs Joey but it has not really anything to do why it definitely and under all cirumstances should not be possible and done for Yugi to be used as comparison.

[incarnati0n]

I didn't got into this that part yet, but Yugi vs. Joey in the Duelist Kingdom is absent in the manga? How could it be?

They just waved it off so yugi wouldn't have to supposedly show all his strategies to Pegasus as if he didn't already know them all. So it just goes straight to Pegasus vs Yugi. Honestly I don't know how involved in the development of the filler parts of the anime Kazuki Takahashi was but despite that they were pretty much always on point while in DB stuff like the copy Vegeta arc and Garlic Junior just fall flat. Still have to give props to Toei for the one-off slife of life episodes tho.

[Noah]

Since when is it a fact that everything from Dragon Ball without Toriyama-san flopped hard?

Sure it's not a fact. Ressurection Of F (2015) has Toriyama on it and many here thought it was pretty bad compared to Battle Of Gods (2013)

They just waved it off so Yugi wouldn't have to supposedly show all his strategies to Pegasus as if he didn't already know them all. So it just goes straight to Pegasus vs Yugi. Honestly I don't know how involved in the development of the filler parts of the anime Kazuki Takahashi was but despite that they were pretty much always on point while in DB stuff like the copy Vegeta arc and Garlic Junior just fall flat. Still have to give props to Toei for the one-off slife of life episodes tho.

That doesn't make much sense, I mean Pegasus had the Millenium Eye and for all the matters, knowing Yugi strategies before or in-duel don't make much difference and I still don't get it, Joey gave up after defeating Bandit Keith and then Yugi went on Pegasus?

You shouldn't be so hard on Toei, I mean they provided training sequences in DB/Z that were most all absent in the original manga and I thought it was entertaining.

[Jigurashi]

I don't think it's good to compare the OG yu-gi-oh anime and manga situation to the way it is in Dragon Ball because in DB everything that has lacked involvement from AT has flopped hard of been straight mediocre while in Yu-GI-OH even stuff that was added that isn't present in the manga like for example the duel between yugi and joey in the first arc of the anime was straight gold and an excelent decision while in the manga it never got to happen.

I wouldn't say that's necessarily true. Some things were great for both. BTFoG was a great Toei story just how the Yugi VS Jonouchi duel was great in the anime. Though I felt the Virtual World arc, Doma arc, and Grand Championships arc of DM were for the most part mediocre and did more harm than good. Each had some aspects I liked (just like any Toei original thing like say GT which I felt is pretty mediocre as well but there are aspects to it I enjoy), but I feel both drop the ball quite often.

[Bullza]

I'm sure it's bound to have been mentioned but if the Universe 6 Saiyans are heroic and good people then do you think that the Universe 6 Namekians will be evil?

Would be pretty interesting.

[TheOne]

Love seeing people getting upset because GT exists.

Haha me too! Sooooo many people despise it. But I loved it. Even if there were inconsistencies, I still enjoyed it a lot.

Seeing people daily dismiss GT as being relevant and then all of a sudden seeing Japan celebrate it with Super, Z, and DB just warms my heart

[Dbzfan94]

Love seeing people getting upset because GT exists.

Haha me too! Sooooo many people despise it. But I loved it. Even if there were inconsistencies, I still enjoyed it a lot.

GT wasn't the best but I loved it too. Tbh, I've enjoyed it more than Super.

[Totamo]

Love seeing people getting upset because GT exists.

Haha me too! Sooooo many people despise it. But I loved it. Even if there were inconsistencies, I still enjoyed it a lot.

Seeing people daily dismiss GT as being relevant and then all of a sudden seeing Japan celebrate it with Super, Z, and DB just warms my heart

You do realize you hate super and people actually like it, right? A lot of peopel here shit on it and I see how they get when people do praise it.


I'm not going to get into the GT vs super argument because quite frankly, its dumb as hell. Some people hate on these series for things Z did that they praise and some give one leeway for what one did.

Both used nostalgia heavily but only one has made it to 100 episodes plus and is actually succeeding in what i was created to do, despite airing in a harsher time with a harsher schedule while the other all the tools to bounce ratings up but was still canceled, broke the back of what was already a dying franchises and remains one of 7 things I strongly hate that carries the dragon ball name