"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[Noah]

Thats not a fact. Dragon ball doesn't have a definitive canon. You might think its the 42 volumes but not everyone will agree with that. Toriyama probably doesn't even know nor does he probably care. Just like with power levels and consistency. You can say its noncanon to you and no one will fault but its simply a lie to say its a fact.

It is a fact when we have a franchise with no established canon. What people should be based on? In the original work, the 42 volumes of the manga. Either you like it or not GT and Super are only animated sequels.

[Lord Frieza]

A blend of the strongest in terms of inspiration.

It does have Gohan's Mystic like aura from games, so I also am inclined to believe it's a mixture of the best..
[spoiler][/spoiler]
Though it can go both ways, maybe it's so badass because it's Gohan inspired.. Base check, God level strength check, Blue aura check, 4's spiky black hair which supposedly this new form has check..
Yeah it's all Gohan, that's explains the pure awesomeness..

Hmmmmm I'll agree witht that. That is pretty cool blend.


The bodies full potiential unlocked +


The embodyment of the primal fury of the saiyan race +


The enigmatic power of a forgotten god +


The result of divine power templerd by mortal ability



Result in the ultimate power, a power beyond limit.

[Xeztin]

I think we are finally going to break away from Super Saiyan. Whatever this new state is, it's far from Super Saiyan. Perhaps it's something Goku has created rather then it being a genetic trait. I felt like Super Saiyan should have been dropped after the first one. In all honesty, Blue seems almost like it's a failed form like SSJ3. They never figured it out in the anime, though they did in the manga.

[HeroR]

I think we are finally going to break away from Super Saiyan. Whatever this new state is, it's far from Super Saiyan. Perhaps it's something Goku has created rather then it being a genetic trait. I felt like Super Saiyan should have been dropped after the first one. In all honesty, Blue seems almost like it's a failed form like SSJ3. They never figured it out in the anime, though they did in the manga.

What are you talking about? Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan was only like Super Saiyan 3 in the manga. In the anime, it's closer to Mastered Super Saiyan.

[Simere]

SSJ3 isn't a failed form.

[Noah]

SSJ3 isn't a failed form.

Well, it isn't a perfect form either, but do you guys think this transformation will be exclusive to Goku? I know we never had such thing in the series before, but I can't imagine Vegeta with this same form, yet.

[ArchedThunder]

It was predictable Roshi was going to get his perv weakness again, he is so done in episode 105.

Or part of the narrative of the episode will be him fighting his urges and coming out on top...

[Xeztin]

I think we are finally going to break away from Super Saiyan. Whatever this new state is, it's far from Super Saiyan. Perhaps it's something Goku has created rather then it being a genetic trait. I felt like Super Saiyan should have been dropped after the first one. In all honesty, Blue seems almost like it's a failed form like SSJ3. They never figured it out in the anime, though they did in the manga.

What are you talking about? Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan was only like Super Saiyan 3 in the manga. In the anime, it's closer to Mastered Super Saiyan.

Stamina drains and short periods of use is what I mean, almost as if it can't be mastered. Especially level 3. SSGSS we hardly know anything about in the anime, though in the manga despite it's drains it was showed to be useful with "completed Blue". In the anime Blue isn't any different than normal SSJ despite being able to cap it with Kaioken. I can't remember if it had any drawbacks in the anime.

[SirTorra]

Where did the name for the new transformation (Limit Breaker) come from? It'll probably just be called Saiyan God. Although that would be confusing as hell. I do dig the name limit breaker though.

[Alruneia]

Where did the name for the new transformation (Limit Breaker) come from? It'll probably just be called Saiyan God. Although that would be confusing as hell. I do dig the name limit breaker though.

I call it Limit Break as a temporary name because the intro song is "Limit Break x Survivor". I'm pretty sure the people who call it Limit Breaker do so for the same reason.

[HeroR]

Stamina drains and short periods of use is what I mean, almost as if it can't be mastered. Especially level 3. SSGSS we hardly know anything about in the anime, though in the manga despite it's drains it was showed to be useful with "completed Blue". In the anime Blue isn't any different than normal SSJ despite being able to cap it with Kaioken. I can't remember if it had any drawbacks in the anime.

Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan doesn't drain stamina that quickly to the point that Goku and Vegata used it multiple times in the anime without any vast drop in power, unlike the manga. Super Saiyan 3 was so draining that Goku dropped out of it after only fighting for a few minutes and couldn't' transform to even a basic Super Saiyan. Compete Blue also has a chance of breaking Goku's body, making it a counterpart to Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan/Kaioken in the anime.

So I don't see how it's a 'fail form'.

[Lord Frieza]

SSJ3 isn't a failed form.

Well, it isn't a perfect form either, but do you guys think this transformation will be exclusive to Goku? I know we never had such thing in the series before, but I can't imagine Vegeta with this same form, yet.

I think its not that Vegeta cannot get it. He just dose not want to.

SS3 is the second most handycapped form in the series, the first being Grade 3. In his mortal body the form drains Goku's ki so fast that he cannot seem to truly draw out its full power after using it for any length of time and it has caused him to pass out right in the middle of a life and death battle. Thats a pretty big draw back in any meaningful fight. Simple put if your foe has any kind of edge in raw power or worse stamina, SS3 is only going to work against you. Hell even Gotenks, who seem to have a handle on the form thanks to fusion, had his time limit drastically drop. Goku's use of it agenst Trunks is by far the best use of it, a quick finisher power up.

Vegeta saw right through Grade 3's flaws and never even attempted to use. Very likely he thinks the same with SS3. With his outburst against Beerus, Vegeta seemed to be on the road to a different power, one that likely lead to mastering SS2 and maybe even Rage (what it that is) which is a far more worth while path to go down. But in the end the god power realm was shown to him and he took that path instead. Infact he andGoku seem to have discovered Blue togther, which I think is a first for this series.

[Totamo]

Thats not a fact. Dragon ball doesn't have a definitive canon. You might think its the 42 volumes but not everyone will agree with that. Toriyama probably doesn't even know nor does he probably care. Just like with power levels and consistency. You can say its noncanon to you and no one will fault but its simply a lie to say its a fact.

It is a fact when we have a franchise with no established canon. What people should be based on? In the original work, the 42 volumes of the manga. Either you like it or not GT and Super are only animated sequels.

1. Super has a manga running alongside the anime.

2. Not everyone will agree that only the 42 volumes are canon and you know that.

[ssjprodigy]

So how does someone that lost so many times to people weaker than him qualifies as 'smart'?

Goku lost to buu..
Then goku isn't the smartest fighter there is?
There is a plot device called getting caught off guard, be it by a technique or something else, all characters have experienced it one time or the other..

Fighting wise Gohan has always been a brute that relies on rage hax

That's not even remotely true, he lost all that rage in the cell saga..
Brute strength is common to every character there is in the show..
If he has strength, why not use the strength together with brains?

Goku has made mistakes as well but the number of times he has shown he is smart greatly outnumber the times he has made a mistake,while the opposite is true for Gohan.

In the frieza and cell saga all gohan was doing was rage and get a free power up.Not to mention he got back ultimate by rage as well.
Using strength with brains is fine but when Gohan only had 1 fight where he actually used his brains and all he managed to do is get a draw with someone weaker than him,then thats not something that proves Gohan is smart,don't you think?

wont help piccolo in the TOP he is forever doomed to stay in the shadows of being a satellite character and Goku, Freeza, Gohan, Vegeta, and 17 are the only characters receiving promotion right now which really tells you something huh bud

Of course Piccolo is gonna be there to take the blow for when Gohan screws up this time.
Also you went from Gohan's battle smarts to talking about Piccolo's status as a character in a heartbeat,shows that even you are not confident in Gohan's fighting skills.

nah I got the utmost confidence on on my boii just stating how piccolo's track record/relevancy looks bad in the TOP

[Noah]

Well, it isn't a perfect form either, but do you guys think this transformation will be exclusive to Goku? I know we never had such thing in the series before, but I can't imagine Vegeta with this same form, yet.

SS3 is the second most handycapped form in the series, the first being Grade 3. In his mortal body the form drains Goku's ki so fast that he cannot seem to truly draw out its full power after using it for any length of time and it has caused him to pass out right in the middle of a life and death battle. Thats a pretty big draw back in any meaningful fight. Simple put if your foe has any kind of edge in raw power or worse stamina, SS3 is only going to work against you. Hell even Gotenks, who seem to have a handle on the form thanks to fusion, had his time limit drastically drop. Goku's use of it agenst Trunks is by far the best use of it, a quick finisher power up.

Vegeta saw right through Grade 3's flaws and never even attempted to use. Very likely he thinks the same with SS3. With his outburst against Beerus, Vegeta seemed to be on the road to a different power, one that likely lead to mastering SS2 and maybe even Rage (what it that is) which is a far more worth while path to go down. But in the end the god power realm was shown to him and he took that path instead. Infact he andGoku seem to have discovered Blue togther, which I think is a first for this series.

Dang it! I wasn't clear about what I said

I wasn't talking about SSJ3, as we know Goku was the first to achieve it, but we also saw Gotenks using it too. Vegeta has no reasons to acquire this obsolete transformation (if he hadn't acquired yet)

What I meant is about this NEW Goku transformation, do you think it will be exclusive to him?

1. Super has a manga running alongside the anime.

2. Not everyone will agree that only the 42 volumes are canon and you know that.

1. Dragon Ball Super is an anime only sequel and it's manga just serves to promote the main product. It has no correlations with the original manga that ended 22 years ago.

2. It doesn't really need to be a consensus. It's the original work that remains untouchable until nowadays as it's not like Toriyama decided to do DB Vol. 43 for example.

[Lord Frieza]

Dang it! I wasn't clear about what I said

I wasn't talking about SSJ3, as we know Goku was the first to achieve it, but we also saw Gotenks using it too. Vegeta has no reasons to acquire this obsolete transformation (if he hadn't acquired yet)

What I meant is about this NEW Goku transformation, do you think it will be exclusive to him?

OH I SEE!!!

Well that depends on how he gets the thing. If its just "Grimgor Ironhideing" your through some sort of God Level limit then no.

However it it ties into SSBKK or, as some have suggested, it has something to do with not just blue bit also SSG, well then there's a good chance it will be since both those things are limited to Goku alone.

[kinisking]

I'm surprised Gohans battle smarts are even being questioned at this point. He very clearly has used strategy. The excuse about the Botamo strategy not being smart just because it wouldn't have worked if someone was equal in strength really isn't a good argument at all. Its still smart and takes advantage of the opponents weaknesses. Gohans been repeatedly shown to be a good fighter this entire arc. He's been outright respected by both Bergamo and the guy in 103. Saying Gohan wasn't an intelligent fighter never really made sense because he never got to show off his intelligence in Z. He was always either way stronger or weaker than the enemy. Supers been showing what he's really capable of.

[HeroR]

I'm surprised Gohans battle smarts are even being questioned at this point. He very clearly has used strategy. The excuse about the Botamo strategy not being smart just because it wouldn't have worked if someone was equal in strength really isn't a good argument at all. Its still smart and takes advantage of the opponents weaknesses. Gohans been repeatedly shown to be a good fighter this entire arc. He's been outright respected by both Bergamo and the guy in 103. Saying Gohan wasn't an intelligent fighter never really made sense because he never got to show off his intelligence in Z. He was always either way stronger or weaker than the enemy. Supers been showing what he's really capable of.

His strategy with Botamo was undermined by the fact that Vegeta, quite frankly, dealt with him better. Namely, tying his arms and throwing him out of the ring, which only failed because of Megetta. Gohan punch and lift method seems needlessly more complicated and energy draining. I also feels it's a copout for Gohan to know about Botamo instead of figuring out his gimmick like Goku and Gohan's Kamehameha shouldn't have pushed Botamo out of the ring since Goku's Kamehameha in the Champa Saga got absorbed.

U10, his method was tank and counter, hardly a strategy I would say is great, especially since it goes back to Gohan's reliance of being stronger than the person he's fighter. And his fight with U10 also isn't helped that both Goku and Piccolo dealt with their opponents in smarter ways, with Goku choosing to outsmart the person he was fighting when he could have just used raw power.

He's capable, but he's only really been shown as smart against Lavender and he's leadership skills are just laughable. Gohan is intelligence, but battle smart he isn't.

[ssjprodigy]

I'm surprised Gohans battle smarts are even being questioned at this point. He very clearly has used strategy. The excuse about the Botamo strategy not being smart just because it wouldn't have worked if someone was equal in strength really isn't a good argument at all. Its still smart and takes advantage of the opponents weaknesses. Gohans been repeatedly shown to be a good fighter this entire arc. He's been outright respected by both Bergamo and the guy in 103. Saying Gohan wasn't an intelligent fighter never really made sense because he never got to show off his intelligence in Z. He was always either way stronger or weaker than the enemy. Supers been showing what he's really capable of.

His strategy with Botamo was undermined by the fact that Vegeta, quite frankly, dealt with him better. Namely, tying his arms and throwing him out of the ring, which only failed because of Megetta. Gohan punch and lift method seems needlessly more complicated and energy draining. I also feels it's a copout for Gohan to know about Botamo instead of figuring out his gimmick like Goku and Gohan's Kamehameha shouldn't have pushed Botamo out of the ring since Goku's Kamehameha in the Champa Saga got absorbed.

U10, his method was tank and counter, hardly a strategy I would say is great, especially since it goes back to Gohan's reliance of being stronger than the person he's fighter. And his fight with U10 also isn't helped that both Goku and Piccolo dealt with their opponents in smarter ways, with Goku choosing to outsmart the person he was fighting when he could have just used raw power.

He's capable, but he's only really been shown as smart against Lavender and he's leadership skills are just laughable. Gohan is intelligence, but battle smart he isn't.

I believe otherwise imo but I respect yours

[avasatu]

So, is the red haired character behind Chocolate Goku another form beyond this? Perhaps a power-up? Or is it just SSG Vegeta?