"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[dbzfan7]

I don't care about the fact Goku never saw Gohan's birth. If the joke didn't come from Toriyama it has at the very least his seal of approval. Though Vegeta calling him out was a little out of place, considering he probably never saw Trunks' birth as well and Androids arc showed he didn't give a fuck about his son, and Future Trunks even called him out for that.

Pretty much. I mean I don't like it, but it had to have gone by him considering the process. Don't like a bunch of things that come from him lately.

But having Blugeta and Beerus fight is awesome. Kinda like how we got some Bluku and Whis action, it should happen more often instead of base training with them.

[KuririnNoKotoKa]

This is a major overreaction. The joke sucks yeah but you guys are acting as if everything is completely ruined
And HUH? The anime kiss scene joke wasn't ambiguous in the slightest. That was just the fandom in denial, as usual

Yes it was actually. People really wanted to see Toyotaro's take on it just to confirm which implication of the joke in the anime was true, while also completely missing the point of how the joke works, even if it's not very funny in my personal opinion.

[Basako]

A pregnancy / fat joke is quite lame for start. If Goku says he wasn't there when Chichi was pregnant with Gohan, that's at least six months. So where was he? BS.

It would have worked like this:

Goku: Hey, Bulma, you look so fat now!! What have you been eating?
Bulma: You idiot! I'm not fat, I'm pregnant, about to have a baby!
Goku: Oh, right. I remember when Chichi had Gohan so many years ago.

Like this we would have had the stupid joke, but it's just he doesn't notice at first, then he remembers about Chichi's pregnancy and gets it.

It's not as bad as the kiss joke, but it's close.

[emperior]

A pregnancy / fat joke is quite lame for start. If Goku says he wasn't there when Chichi was pregnant with Gohan, that's at least six months. So where was he? BS.

It would have worked like this:

Goku: Hey, Bulma, you look so fat now!! What have you been eating?
Bulma: You idiot! I'm not fat, I'm pregnant, about to have a baby!
Goku: Oh, right. I remember when Chichi had Gohan so many years ago.

Like this we would have had the stupid joke, but it's just he doesn't notice at first, then he remembers about Chichi's pregnancy and gets it.

It's not as bad as the kiss joke, but it's close.

That's almost what happened in the anime except for the fact Goku didn't comment about Chi-Chi. The joke is that Goku doesn't notice Bulma is pregnant and also has no touch and immediately comments she has gotten fat.
Surely not recognizing a 9 months pregnant woman is silly, but I also sometimes can't recognize whether a woman is pregnant or fat if it's around the 5th month of pregnancy.

[Totamo]

Him being a reckless douche made him entertaining,look at the buu saga,I just love his behavior there,without those traits he would have been a boring protagonists,I just noticed when I was re reading DB again

It's ironic you cite the Buu Saga, because it's the one of the only sagas you can't really call Goku a "reckless douche" as that's one of the sagas where he thought things out pragmatically in his sense of the word. Furthermore, I know he isn't some perfect gentleman, but it wouldn't for hurt a little bit of consistent characterization and not outrageously double down on his existing flaws. However, this is Super though the show is shit and the manga isn't quite that far apart.

Thats a lie. Goku was half the reason Buu was revived, it was his responsibility. Not to mention he did that exact same nonsense with Gohan which literally blew up in his face.


Goku's plans have been dumb since Cell.


I don't think people really realize how Goku's character changed from Ball to Z.

[Totamo]

The problem I have with the joke is that it doesn't make sense because Goku didn't train during those 5 years nor did he hang with friends so where was he?

This doesn't feel like Toriyama humor. Goku not kissing his wife thats Toriyama humor making fun of Goku's naivete, but this feels like....like a fan wrote it trying to address something the community has argued about......now it all makes sense. I can say a lot of shit about Toei but you can always tell its a lack of care for them but Toyo is always a lack of skill. Even if this joke did come from Toriyama, you can still form it to make it logical and comedic.. But Toyo doesn't have the skill for that.

Toriyama made fun of his characters but it was always logical and comedic. This ain't. Now. I'm actually scared for Yamcha fans, because if you think the anime got him bad, Toyo is about to take through the ringer.

Or maybe memes are starting to affect the writers.

[Saturnine]

And I focused on the part where Vegeta also masters SSj Blue. This means Goku in the manga doesn't have anything over Vegeta, like the anime's SSjB + KK. Quite a different approach to take.

[Ki Breaker]

And I focused on the part where Vegeta also masters SSj Blue. This means Goku in the manga doesn't have anything over Vegeta, like the anime's SSjB + KK. Quite a different approach to take.

That or Goku simply being better than Vegeta even at equal power..

[Saturnine]

And I focused on the part where Vegeta also masters SSj Blue. This means Goku in the manga doesn't have anything over Vegeta, like the anime's SSjB + KK. Quite a different approach to take.

That or Goku simply being better than Vegeta even at equal power..

Neither could ever outdo the other while they were at equal powers, SSj2 Goku vs SSj2 Majin Vegeta being the paramount example.

[Ki Breaker]

And I focused on the part where Vegeta also masters SSj Blue. This means Goku in the manga doesn't have anything over Vegeta, like the anime's SSjB + KK. Quite a different approach to take.

That or Goku simply being better than Vegeta even at equal power..

Neither could ever outdo the other while they were at equal powers, SSj2 Goku vs SSj2 Majin Vegeta being the paramount example.

That was a long time ago, they have both grown significantly since then..

[emperior]

That or Goku simply being better than Vegeta even at equal power..

Neither could ever outdo the other while they were at equal powers, SSj2 Goku vs SSj2 Majin Vegeta being the paramount example.

That was a long time ago, they have both grown significantly since then..

Whis implied in RoF that in a equal battle between the two, Goku would win unless he drops his guard. Vegeta is way too tense. Being too tense means not thinking properly in a fight, which could result in Vegeta getting countered by Goku.

[Basako]

The problem I have with the joke is that it doesn't make sense because Goku didn't train during those 5 years nor did he hang with friends so where was he?

This doesn't feel like Toriyama humor. Goku not kissing his wife thats Toriyama humor making fun of Goku's naivete, but this feels like....like a fan wrote it trying to address something the community has argued about......now it all makes sense. I can say a lot of shit about Toei but you can always tell its a lack of care for them but Toyo is always a lack of skill. Even if this joke did come from Toriyama, you can still form it to make it logical and comedic.. But Toyo doesn't have the skill for that.

Toriyama made fun of his characters but it was always logical and comedic. This ain't. Now. I'm actually scared for Yamcha fans, because if you think the anime got him bad, Toyo is about to take through the ringer.

Or maybe memes are starting to affect the writers.

Toei has its issues too, the supposed humour about Master Roshi has been quite bad and nothing like in DB or DB Z. Or Chichi's characterization. Or Goku's.

This was an easy cheap joke, both in the anime and manga, I'm not against that. The problem I see is Goku saying he wasn't there when Gohan, if he really said that.

It's a badly handled joke, but Toyotaro has more than enough skills. But he is not perfect, of course not.

[Hawk9211]

If Goku missed the birth of his sons or if he didn't makes no difference to me and it won't change how much I like the character.

Same here.

[LowRyder2005]

Jesus Christ, the community is so obsessed with how bad they think Goku is as a parent that any reference that is made as to how he isn't the most common guy on earth is met with extreme overreaction.

Agreed. Besides, it's a joke, but I don't think it needs to be taken that literally. I feel it's more like a way to paraphrase the fact he didn't really pay attention to Chi-Chi's pregnancy (in Gohan's case, that is). For instance, do you really think Goku wouldn't go home to eat in 9+ months?

Other than that, assuming he did see Chi-Chi, even normal people can get confused whether a woman is overweight or pregnant. Like you said, it isn't really that hard to imagine Goku - who's always been described as a pretty aloof when it comes a good deal of common human knowledge - probably saw his wife pregnant, again, 20 plus years ago.

I think the whole implication of the "Goku still doesn't know about kissing" angle is much more bizarre.

[MajinMan]

Was that boring fight between Vegeta and Beerus really that necessary? And how on Earth did the manga manage to not even cover one episode of the anime? After the abysmal pacing of the Future Trunks arc, you would think Toyotaro would speed things up a little. I won't be surprised if the next chapter ends right before the Grand Priest explains all the rules of the tournament.

Also, Goku not knowing about Gohan is nonsense. You're telling me Chi-Chi never told Goku that she was pregnant? Was Goku on some year long training trip? Who named the kid Gohan? Was it Gyumao? So many questions. People ranted on the kiss joke a lot, but I feel that this is much dumber.

And the fact that Vegeta called out Goku for this is laughable. Yah Vegeta, let's forget the fact that you were going to let Bulma and baby Trunks die in a plane crash during the Cell arc. But hey, that doesn't count because he was there when Bra was born!

[HeroR]

The problem I have with the joke is that it doesn't make sense because Goku didn't train during those 5 years nor did he hang with friends so where was he?

This doesn't feel like Toriyama humor. Goku not kissing his wife thats Toriyama humor making fun of Goku's naivete, but this feels like....like a fan wrote it trying to address something the community has argued about......now it all makes sense. I can say a lot of shit about Toei but you can always tell its a lack of care for them but Toyo is always a lack of skill. Even if this joke did come from Toriyama, you can still form it to make it logical and comedic.. But Toyo doesn't have the skill for that.

Toriyama made fun of his characters but it was always logical and comedic. This ain't. Now. I'm actually scared for Yamcha fans, because if you think the anime got him bad, Toyo is about to take through the ringer.

Or maybe memes are starting to affect the writers.

He did train. Roshi and Krillin even noted that Goku got stronger since the end of Dragon Ball. He's just not as strong as Piccolo thought he would be since he invented no new techniques in the past five years.

I also disagree on the " shit about Toei but you can always tell its a lack of care". The writers of Super are fans too. They're just not well known fans like Toyo. Most of the weirdness in Super anime happens because Toei tends to put 'cool or funny, before making complete sense' at times and different writers having different POVs on certain characters that can color the dialog. Toyo is more or less a one man show in the manga, so his ideas and biases are clear.

Was that boring fight between Vegeta and Beerus really that necessary? And how on Earth did the manga manage to not even cover one episode of the anime? After the abysmal pacing of the Future Trunks arc, you would think Toyotaro would speed things up a little. I won't be surprised if the next chapter ends right before the Grand Priest explains all the rules of the tournament.

Also, Goku not knowing about Gohan is nonsense. You're telling me Chi-Chi never told Goku that she was pregnant? Was Goku on some year long training trip? Who named the kid Gohan? Was it Gyumao? So many questions. People ranted on the kiss joke a lot, but I feel that this is much dumber.

And the fact that Vegeta called out Goku for this is laughable. Yah Vegeta, let's forget the fact that you were going to let Bulma and baby Trunks die in a plane crash during the Cell arc. But hey, that doesn't count because he was there when Bra was born!

That is a good point. How did Chi-Chi not tell Goku what was going on even when she wasn't showing? And it is odd that he would give a baby that he apparently didn't know about until he popped out his grandfather's name.

The kissing statement works since you don't need to kill to get pregnant, while this is kind of pushing the realms of disbelief. If it is a joke, it's only really funny in a 'how is that even remotely possible' kind of way.

[SaiyanGod117]

Him being a reckless douche made him entertaining,look at the buu saga,I just love his behavior there,without those traits he would have been a boring protagonists,I just noticed when I was re reading DB again

It's ironic you cite the Buu Saga, because it's the one of the only sagas you can't really call Goku a "reckless douche" as that's one of the sagas where he thought things out pragmatically in his sense of the word. Furthermore, I know he isn't some perfect gentleman, but it wouldn't for hurt a little bit of consistent characterization and not outrageously double down on his existing flaws. However, this is Super though the show is shit and the manga isn't quite that far apart.

Thats a lie. Goku was half the reason Buu was revived, it was his responsibility. Not to mention he did that exact same nonsense with Gohan which literally blew up in his face.


Goku's plans have been dumb since Cell.


I don't think people really realize how Goku's character changed from Ball to Z.

I'm just gonna past what I typed previously, because for some reason you ignored it, even though it was on the same page.

Hence, why I said in his sense of the word, Goku left Buu to Trunks and Goten because he knew that he wouldn't be always there to fight off the next villain. So he wanted the next generation to learn how to protect themselves, he definitely had the right idea, but he went at the wrong way of executing it. In his mind, he thought what no better chance for them to get experience they need, than to defeat something of equal equivalance of what they someday be fighting in the future. In addition, you can't the blame the Resurrection of Majin Buu on Goku, as it was Vegeta who incited the whole thing by submitting his mind to Babdi and killing a half of stadium full of innocent citizens to force Goku to fight him. Whats more, Goku was gonna end the fight quickly as he said himeself in the beginning of the fight, but unbeknownst to him since Vegeta submitted himself to Babdi he got a power boost putting him on equal footing to Goku, that otherwise would have been a quick stomp. In conclusion there's was pretty much nothing Goku could do that in situation, going SSJ3 humiliating Vegeta who was already standing on a thread between Good and Evil would have been a bad choice, as he only needed one nudge to push him to either side.

To be honest, I think you don't get Goku's character and it doesn't matter if his plans are dumb to you,( as they will be certain people) it's the fact that he took into consideration to make a plan.

[Michsi]

Okay, I don't follow the manga, but I've seen this Goku not being there for Gohan's birth discussion make the rounds so I came here for a little confirmation. Now if it's just that one day she gave birth and he happened to be somewhere else, that's fine, but are we actually talking about several months?

[Lord Beerus]

So I see there's been a lot of "passionate" reactions to Goku's and Vegeta's behavior in this new chapter. So I decided to do some digging of what the big ruckus was about and I come across this from Herms:

Goku reveals he didn't know about Gohan or Goten's births. Vegeta: "You might not be a bad guy, but as a father, you're the worst."

Yeah... that is... absolutely fucking absurd.

Not the just the fact that Goku was wasn't around for Gohan birth, but the fact that Vegeta, the same Vegeta who was willing to left his wife and infant child die in a plane and never hugged his son until he was 8 years old and was about to kill himself, is taking the high morale ground and calling out Goku for how he acts as father is gear grindingly hypocritical.

This is far from a story breaking thing for me, but damn if it's a really unnecessarily annoying addition to the story from Toyotaro. Just like how Goku never kissed his wife. Frankly I find this occasion worse than the whole "Goku never kissing Chi Chi" scenario because it was handled with far less subtlety. I mean.... where the hell was Goku when Gohan was being born?! Did Goku even know when Chi Chi was pregnant? It's just so fucking dumb. It raises more questions that it needs to.

And keep in mind while Bulma is heavily pregnant, Vegeta is off in some far region of the universe training with Whis. Shouldn't he be sticking around for the birth of his child, which could happen very soon, to, you know, at least have some kind of moral ground for calling out Goku on being absent for the birth of his children?

Ugh. This was all so bloody freakin stupid. It won't detract from the grand scope of the story in the slightest, but... did we really need to know this?

[The gr]

This fight was boring aside from a couple of panels,was it necessary, it would have been better if there was a exposition of goku and whis mentioning vegeta mastered his transformation or have tte fight last 5 pages,I was wrong about him covering episodes 77-78 in 1 chap,as of right now I'm not impressed with this & the jokes were not funny

They are some positive,let me name some

+Is always neat seeing beerus fighting & seeing a mastered ssb is not enough for beerus is kinda horrifying

+goku dominating those poacher was entertaining

+There was a cameo in this,I appreciate the little details here