The power of the movie villians

Jermyn · Post by **Jermyn** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 7:46 pm

Okay, it's pretty much a fact that Garlic Jr. is weaker than Raditz in DBZ movie 1 and I already had a thread about how powerful Broly was. But what about Dr. Wheelo, Tullece, Slug, Cooler, Metal Cooler, Super Android 13, Bojack, Janemba and Hildegarn? How powerful are they compared to series cannon villians?

Li'l Lemmy · Post by **Li'l Lemmy** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:18 pm

Tullece: Unusually high for a supposedly low-class Saiya-jin, and that's even before he eats from the Tree of Might. That he can withstand both a multiple Kaio-ken and a Genki Dama puts him somewhere below Freeza but somewhere above the Ginyu Special Corps, I would think.

~Da Lemmy

Drunken Master · Post by **Drunken Master** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:26 pm

Bojack, in my opinion is stronger than Broly and SP Cell. He's the top dog in the android saga era. Why? Well, he's after both Broly and Cell, so common sense says that they'd make him stronger. Also, his henchmen easily beat up SSj Gohan and Vegeta, who both should have received a power boost since they were beaten bad after Cell died, and healed. So the power levels are greater in this movie. Can't really debate much with movies, but that's my view.

Godo · Post by **Godo** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:32 pm

Drunken Master wrote:Bojack, in my opinion is stronger than Broly and SP Cell. He's the top dog in the android saga era. Why? Well, he's after both Broly and Cell, so common sense says that they'd make him stronger. Also, his henchmen easily beat up SSj Gohan and Vegeta, who both should have received a power boost since they were beaten bad after Cell died, and healed. So the power levels are greater in this movie. Can't really debate much with movies, but that's my view.

By SP Cell, do you mean Super Perfect?

In that case, SSJ2 Gohan would have a much harder time defeating Bojack.
Bojack probably had power a bit superior of Perfect Cell.

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:35 pm

Yeah, SP Cell pretty much but probably not quite matched SSj2 Gohan, who, in turn punched through Bojack about as easily and casually as he maimed the Cell Juniors.

Drunken Master · Post by **Drunken Master** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 10:36 pm

Yeah, I refer to him as SP Cell, so as not to confuse debates more than they usually are.

Well, Gohan never actually fought SP Cell. If Gohan wasn't hurt, I'm sure he'd do the same to SP Cell if they fought. Someone stated Gohan's ki dropped when he took that blast from Cell. And when he went all out with his remaining ki, he still owned Cell.

Gohan getting hurt was a plot device, because SP Cell still wouldn't have a chance if they actually fought. Gohan had to get hurt and his ki had to be reduced. It's just like when Nappa punched off Tenshinhan's arm, because of his full-powered, two-handed kikoho would have at least stopped Nappa, if not killed him. Also, I was surprised Bojack was still kickin' after taking that punch. Don't know what that has to do with power, but it's pretty damn tough to take that and continue to fight.

Li'l Lemmy · Post by **Li'l Lemmy** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 10:42 pm

Gohan himself said that he lost about half of his supply, yeah.

~Da Lemmy

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 10:47 pm

True, true. But regardless, Cell was now at SSj2 levels of power, meaning he was still pretty close to Gohan. Bojack seemed a deal weaker than that.

caejones · Post by **caejones** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 4:51 am

Garlic Jr: Being immortal makes it difficult to tell. Let's go with what was stated concerning 'weaker than Raditz'.
Dr. Uiro/Wheelo: He believed he could destroy the Earth with one blast. Why did he bother getting Goku's body, then? Meh.
Tullece: Didn't he give his power level or something to let us estimate it when usig the scouter on Gohan and Piccolo? In any case, post fruit power up, he'd have to be stronger thn Ginyu given how that battle went, but weaker than Freeza.
Slug: Hard to tell... weaker than Freeza's ultimate form though?
Cooler: Apparently stronger than Freeza with his new transformation, but still weak enough to get thrown around by Goku's kamehameha into the sun.
Meta Cooler: He cheats.
#13: Umm... Confusing these are. I'd imagine the thread on movie7 sums it up kinda.
Broli: I'm not touching that.
Bojak: Clse to perfect Cell... I suppose this thread tells us the difficulty in choosing between super perfect and just perfect range...
Movie10 Broli: Zenkai? Yes? No? Maybe? Considering that Movie10 Gohan was the Gohan that's been slacking and therefore not as powerful as fighting Cell... :meh:? Shenron?
Bio Broli: He cheats.
Janemba: SSJ3 or so?
Hildegarn: The way that fight goes, it's hard to tell... so let's just say SSJ3 + a crazy defensive technique.

Adey · Post by **Adey** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 6:10 am

Janemba was far superior to SSJ3 Goku, I'm going to put him around Super Buu's level.

As for Hildegarn, eh...well seeing as Gohan/Gotenks (the two strongest there) weren't allowed to defeat him since the movie was all about the Dragon Fist, I can't really give a good estimate, he has to be as strong as Super Buu 2 to take Gohan down though...

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 6:17 am

Hmmm. I've got general ideas on everyone. May as well state them, no?

- Garlic Jr.: Probably close to Raditz in power, but only when transformed. I've not seen the movie in a while but, IIRC, Goku and Piccolo got their butts kicked after he transformed. But they did think they'd beat him at one point so he's got to be weaker than Raditz. Closer, but weaker.

- Dr. Wheelo: I'd say he's probably around Vegeta's strength when he first came to Earth. This is based mainly on when the movie would have taken place. Goku uses a KKx4 during the movie and Dr. Wheelo tries to blow the Earth up with an energy beam ala Vegeta.

- Turles: Tough call. We know he's stronger than Vegeta when he first came to Earth. Turles reads Piccolo's power at 18,000 (or was that dub only?) at one point and he manages to stop a Special Beam Cannon with just one hand. Goku uses a... KKx10, I believe, in this movie. So I'd peg him at or just under his Ginyu Saga power. So after the fruit Turles is probably around 2nd from Freeza's strength.

- Lord Slug: I don't know why but I've always assumed Piccolo hadn't fused with Nail prior to the events of this movie. Possibly because of how easily Slug's mean deal with him. So I'd rank Old Slug at about 1st form Freeza's power but Young Slug at somewhere between 2nd and 3rd form Freeza's power. Goku never uses more than a normal Kaioken (which is rather odd), and then only for the, attempted, killing blow.

- Cooler: This one's pretty cut and dry really. 4th form is weaker than Freeza's 4th, likely around his 2nd. 5th form is probably about 25% more than Freeza's full power. Dunno why I pick that ammount specifically but I do.

- Metal Cooler: Somewhere between the powers of19/20 and 18. This, despite Dende's presence on Earth, has always struck me as occuring near the tail end of the 3 years of training for the Androids. They don't deal with Metal Cooler nearly as well as 19 and 20 but don't get beaten as severly as against 18.

- Android 13: Short of 17's power prior to absorbing 14 and 15, then he's around 16's level I'd say. Gave my reasonings in another thread.

- Brolly: Brolly's full strength is probably on par with that of Perfect Cell.

- Bojack: Between Perfect and Super Perfect Cell in power.

- Brolly (again): Same as before.

- Bio Brolly: Uh... lower than water? >.>

- Janemba: Not quite as powerful as Super Buu but close, I would say. Maybe around SSJ1 or SSJ3 Gotenks in strength.

- Hildegarn: Probably about Super Buu2 levels, or just below. He trounced everyone and Goku only won cause of Dragonfist/he's Goku/Toei's not very original.

Duo · Post by **Duo** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 6:24 am

Guess I'll do my list...(I'll only do numbers for the Saiyan-Namek Era stuff)

Garlic Junior - I'd guess around 800? Goku and Piccolo, working together, overwhelmed him pretty quick. They did nothing to Raditz under the same tactic.

Dr. Uiro - He took a Kaio-ken x4 Kamehameha to the face and lived. At least as strong as Vegeta in the Saiyan arc.

Tullece - Before the fruit? 35,000 - 45,000. Afterwards? Several hundred thousand.

Lord Slug - Uhh...there's no real way to gauge the characters in this movie, but supposing Goku was based on the strength he had against the Ginyu Force, I would suppose Lord Slug to be around a Million?

Cooler - It's hard to say where he stands. It is believed that he was stronger than Freeza (I'm not sure if this is stated as much as simply implied by having another transformation), but he was spanked by Super Saiya'jin Goku utterly, and 100% Freeza actually had the upper hand against Ssj Goku on Namek for a bit, so...yeah.

Meta Cooler - At first? About equal with Super Saiya'jin Goku. After repairing that first major attack? Between #18 and #17.

#13, #14, & #15 - No idea.

Integrated #13 - Anywhere from #16 to Complete Cell. The sky is the limit on this one, because we have no idea what exactly absorbing a full power Genki Dama would do to someone's power.

Broli

Bojack - In his relaxed state, he'd only need to be around where Cell was when he fought Goku. At full power, around Cell's full power. Close power relations there, and easy to relate.

Janemba - Goku seemed to do fairly well for a while there, so I'd guess he's only a tad stronger than that. His victory came moreso from his unique attacks and fighting style.

Hildegarn - He outdid Ultimate Gohan. The sky is the limit.

Don't really care if my opinions are considered or not. Most of them were already stated.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 11:50 am

Duo wrote:Cooler - It's hard to say where he stands. It is believed that he was stronger than Freeza (I'm not sure if this is stated as much as simply implied by having another transformation), but he was spanked by Super Saiya'jin Goku utterly, and 100% Freeza actually had the upper hand against Ssj Goku on Namek for a bit, so...yeah.

Goku's more powerful in that movie than vs Freeza, though. Not only from it being later, but also that he wasn't as totally exhausted as he was against Freeza.

Casual Matt · Post by **Casual Matt** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 12:12 pm

I might as well throw in what I think.

Garlic Jr. - Weak enough for Goku and Piccolo at the beginning of Z to overtake him by working together, but he's immortal, so his actual level of power is insignificant considering his stamina.

Dr. Uiro - Probably around the same level as Vegeta in the Saiyan Arc considering how he pushed around everyone.

Tullece - Well, it said what Goku's Battle Power was around in the movie. So after Tullece ate the fruit, a lot stronger than that. Maybe around Ginyu's strength?

Slugg - Strong enough to beat around Goku at the time. But at the same time, completely outclassed by even a glimmer of Super Saiyan power. So he's significantly weaker than the likes of Freeza.

Coola - Goku states he "has even more ki than Freeza". But Super Saiyan Goku still beats him easily, so not that much stronger, I'd wager.

Metal Coola - Strong enough to beat around a pair of Super Saiyans. That pretty much automatically makes him stronger than No. 19. Though his stamina doesn't seem to match No. 17 or No. 18. Hard to say, though, because we don't see them get double teamed by Goku and Vegeta. Either way, he's somewhere around Artificial Human strength, which makes sense.

Artificial Human No. 13 - Each of the Artificial Humans in this movie are able to put up a good fight, but still get beaten by Super Saiyans. This makes them seem stronger than No. 19 but still weaker than No. 17 and No. 18. But once No. 13 transforms, he beats everyone else around, so he probably is at their level.

Broli - I'd guess his power as being around that of Cell's. That always just made sense to me. Though, let it be noted that Cell's big advantage over Broli is his regeneration.

Bojack - Absolutely owned by Super Saiyan 2 Gohan. So probably weaker than Cell. But at the same time, he beat Vegeta down pretty easily. So he's probably even stronger than No. 17 and No. 18 considering the events of this movie clearly take place after the Cell Games.

Broli (Again) - Must've gotten a boost from near death because this time he's strong enough to fight Super Saiyan 2 Gohan. (Not the place to debate that point mind you, but you can't deny Broli defeated an adult Gohan here). Of course Gohan wasn't as strong as he was against Cell, so maybe Broli didn't improve that much.

Bio-Broli - In a word, he's a clone of Broli. Probably around Cell's strength, and there's really nothing to disprove this as all he does is own No. 18, Kuririn, Goten, and Trunks. Unfortunately for him, the chemical his DNA was infused with when he broke free was rendered solid and inert by salt water.

Janemba - Beaten down by Super Saiyan 3 Goku, then got serious and owned his. So he's probably at least as strong as Majin Boo (the fat one before the split or the pure Boo, both of which fought fairly evenly with Super Saiyan 3 Goku).

Hildegarn - A little ambiguous as his offensive power seems so much greater than his defensive. His punches are strong enough to knock around even Gohan's Ultimate form, but he's weak while he attacks making him susceptible to things like Super Saiyan 3 Goku's Ryu-ken technique.

I put this together fairly quickly and from memory, so if anybody has any quarrels with what I've said, please let me know.

Thanos6 · Post by **Thanos6** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 2:04 pm

Dr. Uiro/Wheelo: He believed he could destroy the Earth with one blast. Why did he bother getting Goku's body, then?

He hated being stuck in that robot, he wanted to be in a human (or near-human) body again.

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 3:29 pm

Thanos6 wrote:
Dr. Uiro/Wheelo: He believed he could destroy the Earth with one blast. Why did he bother getting Goku's body, then?
He hated being stuck in that robot, he wanted to be in a human (or near-human) body again.

Yeah. Which would explain why he was willing to go from "I can blow up the planet!" to "Well, I can blow up a mountain if I try. >.>"

Drunken Master · Post by **Drunken Master** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:32 pm

Bojack - Again, I still think he's stronger than Cell. It doesn't make sense to make a movie about a weaker fighter than they just fought and defeated. Gohan stated that he had half his ki left, and still owned SP Cell when Goku told him to use it all. I can't remember what was actually said, but Gohan was shocked when he sensed powered-down Bojack. Gohan would have owned SP Cell in an actual fight, just like he did to Bojack. Also, Bojack was still fighting with a hole in his chest...He's a tough mofo. His henchmen were as strong or stronger than the SSjs and Bojack easily killed Zangya, and beat everyone down. Also, Gohan and Vegeta were beaten in the Cell battle, so they should have a big increase when they recovered.

Cooler - Freeza was the strongest in the galaxy, Cooler won't argue that...at least when he's in his fourth form. Once he transforms, Goku himself states that he's stronger than Freeza. Yes, SSJ Goku owned Cooler, but Goku was pretty much dead after he landed on Yardrat. Zenkai power! Again, same with Bojack, everyone's power levels were higher. Also, even though SSj Goku cleary had a big advantage, he was losing ground with Cooler's supernova.

Adamant · Post by **Adamant** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:56 pm

Thanos6 wrote:
Dr. Uiro/Wheelo: He believed he could destroy the Earth with one blast. Why did he bother getting Goku's body, then?
He hated being stuck in that robot, he wanted to be in a human (or near-human) body again.

Couldn't he build one? I mean, he built Kochin, and Kochin looks human enough.

Casual Matt · Post by **Casual Matt** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:09 am

Adamant wrote:
Thanos6 wrote:
Dr. Uiro/Wheelo: He believed he could destroy the Earth with one blast. Why did he bother getting Goku's body, then?
He hated being stuck in that robot, he wanted to be in a human (or near-human) body again.
Couldn't he build one? I mean, he built Kochin, and Kochin looks human enough.

Don't think being a human looking robot is quite what he wanted. Think of simple concepts like being able to feel anything.

Horgus · Post by **Horgus** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 7:17 am

Yeah, there are quite a few things a human can do that a robot cannot

If.. you catch my drift..