"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Kanassa]

But this hardly ruins the manga and fans, per usual, are overdoing it.

Poeple within the Dragon Ball community overreacting? SAY IT AIN'T SO!

[Kanassa]

Don't know if it well recover? It's not that drastic. It's a gag, most likely by Toriyama, probably not meant to be thought about this much.

It's not a funny gag. It's not even a good one. But it doesn't do any damage that needs to be "recovered" from. If the manga was "Damaged" then it certainly wouldn't have been from this joke.

Personally I don't really see it as that big a deal. Before Super, if Toriyama had said something, maybe in an interview, like, "Yeah, Goku wasn't around for the birth of Gohan. Was most likely training," That's something that I would have been able to buy without much difficulty. It maybe dumb but it doesn't seem THAT outlandish.

I don't believe so because if it was, it would be in the anime like Goku's motion sickness and kiss-gate.

But this hardly ruins the manga and fans, per usual, are overdoing it.

My reasoning comes from it's the same kind of gag in both versions. Only in the anime he just mentions Goten, which is understandable, where in the manga he mentions both Goten and Gohan.

Though I suppose I can't really say how much of it was Toriyamas joke, if it is his, but since Toyotaro says he tries to stick as close to Toriyamas outline as possible and even gets help from him, My assumption was that it's Toriyama's gag.

To be fair, didn't Toyo say once that Toriyama is very particular when it comes to the gags over everything else?

[Basako]

He sometimes makes exposition dump, because sometimes the story needs to establish some important context that need words, not just images. Toriyama used to do it too and it was fine. But he doesn't always do it, mostly the images speak from themselves, we have just Vegeta mastering the Blue now and the power levels of the characters have been established without any need of words.

Homeges are just homages, like when Frost used Freeza's pose or Goku and Vegeta repeated their first fight ones. That's not even a problem and it's not like he couldn't give them other ones, they are conscious decisions. If fights are repetitive, it's in the sense they are DB fights, he knows how Toriyama used to do them and he continues that style. But they have been interesting so far, since Goku and Beerus, Champa and Zamasu arcs, there have been so many things that made a lot of them unique. In this very fight we have Vegeta and Beerus both drawn from a wide variety of angles and positions, sometimes like four different ones in the same page for the same attack. But it's not the first time Vegeta attacks with his fists, please, of course similar poses can be found before too, it's a fighting pose and he is a martial artist, that's what DB is about. If you search, you can find repeated poses in Toriyama's work and, of course, in the anime too. Did anyone say about Gohan when he was fighting Botamo, 'Hey, he used that pose in the fight against Boo'. It's absurd.

Toriyama knew a better way to show info to the readers without being "forced" like Toyotaro does. I like homages, but in every single chapter is a little bit too much, it makes the readers start to doubt the writer's creativity, the same about the way he drawn battles, it lacks variety as you can see below:

[spoiler]


[/spoiler]

That image comparison is BS. Some of that images are ripped off from the context, where Vegeta appears in the same page in about four different positions in the sequence. It doesn't lack variety, if provides it almost every page. You could rip off panels like that from Toriyama and search for similar position in the same way, as well as the anime.

Toriyama used to give exposition dump so many times too, because sometimes the story needs words to be explained properly, it's totally fine. I don't feel forced at all like you say, it would feel incomplete if it did like the anime, where people have to start guessing and making up all kind of headcanons and theories every now and then.

[LowRyder2005]

Recover from what?

I honestly don't really know how anyone can find the anime superior. I know, opinions and all that, but DBS anime feels like an absolute choir to sit through while the manga feels like the Dragon Ball I used to know

Probing the fans' reactions here and there and the root of their critiques, I'm very inclined to think that a decent part of those who prefer the anime to the manga, under equal conditions (i.e. "an equally good anime and manga"), would just prefer to watch an anime rendition because as a medium it unconsciously engrosses them the most.
In return they confuse more or less unconsciously confuse the sensation with the manga being less awe-inspiring than what they expected.

Then again, it could or should go both ways.

[Boo Machine]

To be fair, didn't Toyo say once that Toriyama is very particular when it comes to the gags over everything else?

I think so. If I remember correctly he said the jokes seems to be what Toriyama spends a lot of time on. Though I can't even remember which interview this was.

[TheMikado]

My reasoning comes from it's the same kind of gag in both versions. Only in the anime he just mentions Goten, which is understandable, where in the manga he mentions both Goten and Gohan.

Though I suppose I can't really say how much of it was Toriyamas joke, if it is his, but since Toyotaro says he tries to stick as close to Toriyamas outline as possible and even gets help from him, My assumption was that it's Toriyama's gag.

To be fair, didn't Toyo say once that Toriyama is very particular when it comes to the gags over everything else?

I think so. If I remember correctly he said the jokes seems to be what Toriyama spends a lot of time on. Though I can't even remember which interview this was.[/quote]

Yes but only Toyotaro says he's tries to stick very closely to those. We know the gags different between the two mediums to a certain extent. Case in point forgetting the talisman. I feel like the anime tried to make it more logical so as to not have Goku look like a complete boob. I feel like Toyotaro just followed Toriyamas direction.

[Dbzfan94]

Idk if you get what I mean but let me explain this to you
Gohan is the ELDEST SON OF GOKU
Third most popular character in the series
Is not a look alike of is father for promotion
Is a UNIQUE CHARACTER
Defeated a Main Villain PERFECT CELL
Is the 3rd most developed character in the entire series
Fought in every major arc since the Saiyan saga with the exception of the the future trunks arc and and universe 6 tournament
Hyped up to be a key player in this CURRENT ARC
Has his wife and daughter to protect just like Vegeta
Is THE MC OF HIS OWN ARC the great saiyaman saga and end of the cell saga
Been shown the most with Goku unlike Goten
HAS A PERSONALITY
I can go all day

Jesus dude, what do you have against Goten? You should like a butthurt Gohan fanboy right now.

[SaiyanGod117]

You aren't getting it or maybe you don't want to. So I will make it simple. Vegeta is half the reason Buu is revived. Goku is the other half. He knowingly fought Vegeta evenly, when he could have defeated him and prevented all of this. His energy was what awoke Buu. No matter what reaction Vegeta would have had and no matter how bad he felt, its all irrelevant to the fact that the world is in danger and the only person that could prevent it all doesn't for no logical reason. Goku shouldn't care about Vegeta's emotions. He didn't care about Gohan's when he forced him to fight Cell who was depending on him. He didn't care about Bulma's who was crying when he refused to find Gero and prevent the apocalypse. He didn't care about Chichi's when he knowingly out their son in dnager and did it again.

You seem to lack perspective or explore another's point of view, because now right you're coming off exceedingly narrow minded and arrogant. In any case, Goku may be the other half of the reason Majin Buu was resurrected, however unlike Vegeta's reason that wish were out selfishness, his were out of consinderation and well-being. Just like when he pushed Buu onto Trunks and Goten, he wasn't thinking for the good himself, he was thinking for the good of Earth and it's future. Futhermore, your corresponding examples are horrible, as Gohan was the only could beat Cell and Toriyama pulled a total OOC on Gohan during the Cell. As it's been shown in past, he has no problem fighting villains at all if it means protecting his friends and family and that's not even without mentioning when Piccolo made him have a revelation (Even though he was wrong), his mindset changed entirely. And I don't know what your talking about Bulma crying she was angry and agitated at most and got over it shortly after, Chi-Chi has no place to give orders, if people actually listen to her Earth would have been destroyed a long time ago.

And we find out that Vegeta was far more hurt knowing Goku, his rival, pitied him

He would have been far more hurt, knowing he made himself momentary slave to a evil warlock and killed a bunch of people to put him on equal footing with Goku. Yet still wasn't a match for him even after all that, plus you have to take into account his state of mind at the time, not everything is so clear cut dry, *insert quote here*

Now I'm going tell you why Goku's plan was bad even in theory....Goku could have stopped Buu. No matter what, you say. It always come back to that one sentence. You are sitting there watching super buu kill everyone, gotenks goof off, Gohan being arrogant, kid buu blowing up the planet, vegeta on the verge of extinction and the only thought that comes to my mind is Goku could have stopped Buu. Why does Goten and Trunks have to do anything? Why does Piccolo need to do anything? Goku is here now and he can do it in less time. Then he could teach them how to fuse for future threats or train them in the time chamber.

How does that make it bad? We see in the Buu Saga the plan almost worked of course not without its trial and error.

It be like if Goku fought in his base, a fight that be easy in his super saiyan 1 form because he doesn't want to rely on his transformations. You know what everyone is complaining about the tournament right now. Yeah, you could say Goku should strengthen his base but why does he need to do that right now. He is wasting time and risking lives.

However, this would be for his own enjoyment.

The main problem with Goku's plan in the Buu saga was that it wasn't needed for that problem.

True, at the same time it was though, Goku being able to beat Buu with SSJ3 and SSJ3 in-general is a byproduct of Toriyama's writing.

[sintzu]

Congratulations, mate

Thanks a lot.

As much as I complain about Super, I wouldn't have been able to do it without it.

[Noah]

Congratulations, mate

Thanks a lot.

As much as I complain about Super, I wouldn't have been able to do it without it.

I know the feeling, 80% of my posts are bitching about Super related

[Zeno's button]

Here the last page:
[spoiler][/spoiler]

Interesting, I thought Zeno's button (not you, mate) served to bring him to the exactly place Goku was, but it can also bring Goku to his place?

It's actually two buttons on one device. It's the same in the anime.

[MyNiggaGoku]

Idk if you get what I mean but let me explain this to you
Gohan is the ELDEST SON OF GOKU
Third most popular character in the series
Is not a look alike of is father for promotion
Is a UNIQUE CHARACTER
Defeated a Main Villain PERFECT CELL
Is the 3rd most developed character in the entire series
Fought in every major arc since the Saiyan saga with the exception of the the future trunks arc and and universe 6 tournament
Hyped up to be a key player in this CURRENT ARC
Has his wife and daughter to protect just like Vegeta
Is THE MC OF HIS OWN ARC the great saiyaman saga and end of the cell saga
Been shown the most with Goku unlike Goten
HAS A PERSONALITY
I can go all day

Jesus dude, what do you have against Goten? You should like a butthurt Gohan fanboy right now.

While he does sound like a fanboy,I think he's right.

Goten is pretty much created in order to have around a kid Goku and his only real usage is through Gotenks(I love Gotenks but that's beside the point)

Gohan on the other hand,is pretty much developed and he is still developing,with him now being a family man trying to protect his loved ones.

[Totamo]

You aren't getting it or maybe you don't want to. So I will make it simple. Vegeta is half the reason Buu is revived. Goku is the other half. He knowingly fought Vegeta evenly, when he could have defeated him and prevented all of this. His energy was what awoke Buu. No matter what reaction Vegeta would have had and no matter how bad he felt, its all irrelevant to the fact that the world is in danger and the only person that could prevent it all doesn't for no logical reason. Goku shouldn't care about Vegeta's emotions. He didn't care about Gohan's when he forced him to fight Cell who was depending on him. He didn't care about Bulma's who was crying when he refused to find Gero and prevent the apocalypse. He didn't care about Chichi's when he knowingly out their son in dnager and did it again.

You seem to lack perspective or explore another's point of view, because now right you're coming off exceedingly narrow minded and arrogant. In any case, Goku may be the other half of the reason Majin Buu was resurrected, however unlike Vegeta's reason that wish were out selfishness, his were out of consinderation and well-being. Just like when he pushed Buu onto Trunks and Goten, he wasn't thinking for the good himself, he was thinking for the good of Earth and it's future. Futhermore, your corresponding examples are horrible, as Gohan was the only could beat Cell and Toriyama pulled a total OOC on Gohan during the Cell. As it's been shown in past, he has no problem fighting villains at all if it means protecting his friends and family and that's not even without mentioning when Piccolo made him have a revelation (Even though he was wrong), his mindset changed entirely. And I don't know what your talking about Bulma crying she was angry and agitated at most and got over it shortly after, Chi-Chi has no place to give orders, if people actually listen to her Earth would have been destroyed a long time ago.

And we find out that Vegeta was far more hurt knowing Goku, his rival, pitied him

He would have been far more hurt, knowing he made himself momentary slave to a evil warlock and killed a bunch of people to put him on equal footing with Goku. Yet still wasn't a match for him even after all that, plus you have to take into account his state of mind at the time, not everything is so clear cut dry, *insert quote here*

Now I'm going tell you why Goku's plan was bad even in theory....Goku could have stopped Buu. No matter what, you say. It always come back to that one sentence. You are sitting there watching super buu kill everyone, gotenks goof off, Gohan being arrogant, kid buu blowing up the planet, vegeta on the verge of extinction and the only thought that comes to my mind is Goku could have stopped Buu. Why does Goten and Trunks have to do anything? Why does Piccolo need to do anything? Goku is here now and he can do it in less time. Then he could teach them how to fuse for future threats or train them in the time chamber.

How does that make it bad? We see in the Buu Saga the plan almost worked of course not without its trial and error.

It be like if Goku fought in his base, a fight that be easy in his super saiyan 1 form because he doesn't want to rely on his transformations. You know what everyone is complaining about the tournament right now. Yeah, you could say Goku should strengthen his base but why does he need to do that right now. He is wasting time and risking lives.

However, this would be for his own enjoyment.

The main problem with Goku's plan in the Buu saga was that it wasn't needed for that problem.

True, at the same time it was though, Goku being able to beat Buu with SSJ3 and SSJ3 in-general is a byproduct of Toriyama's writing.

No, I get you, but you don't get me. What you are basically doing is justifying Goku's actions in the Buu saga as well as the cell saga, just like people who justify his actions in super.


But you have to look at the results of said actions and what they do. You can't give Goku points for theories or ideas when they end up in disaster. Thats the definition of reckless. Not thinking or caring about the results. Goku never once thought what would happen if this doesn't work or if it backfires.

[The gr]

Another variation of the cover [spoiler][/spoiler]Frost looks better here

Toyble must have influenced Toshio,just why he went for the short burst transformation tactics

[Miracles]

TOEI copied Toyotaro with the Red and Blue stamina saving interchange.

[Kanassa]

Another variation of the cover [spoiler][/spoiler]Frost looks better here

Toyble must have influenced Toshio,just why he went for the short burst transformation tactics

I never realised how big Caulifla's hair is

[OLKv3]

Another variation of the cover [spoiler][/spoiler]Frost looks better here

Toyble must have influenced Toshio,just why he went for the short burst transformation tactics

That shows us every opponent who will remain relevant throughout the ToP

[Noah]

That shows us every opponent who will remain relevant throughout the ToP

I don't think so, I still expect highlights from one or another fighter out of the trio (U6, U7 and U11) like Brianne (U2) for example.

[Simere]

That shows us every opponent who will remain relevant throughout the ToP

I don't think so, I still expect highlights from one or another figther out of the trio (U6, U7 and U11) like Brianne (U2) for example.

She's there, top left.

[Noah]

She's there, top left.

I know, I meant others than just her.