Super Episode 104 (20 August 2017)

[FortuneSSJ]

Holy fuck, that was amazing!!! 11/10 Totally worth the wait!!

They just took the only creative thing in the manga and put it in the anime, which is the switch on/off between SSG and SSB. Love it!

They could have explained SSG return better, but basically it's the same than the manga even though bring back a old form after 4 arcs it's not the best thing to do because it's too long of absence.

I'm glad they addressed the fact Dyspo looks like Beerus and Champa, instead of playing the dumb card like they did with FT Trunks blue hair and ignore it.
Still if he's not connected to them in any way, there isn't any of point of he looking like them. I'm glad he was not eliminated yet though.

There was a lot of strategy here which is not usual in most DB fights.

Zeno was adorable like always.
Beerus is the better character but Champa is the funniest. The vuvuzela scenes cracked me up!
Hit is incredible!
Kunshi is a more interesting character than Kahseral.
Jiren is still boring.

By far one of the best Tournament episodes together with episode 98.

Next episode looks as boring as I expect it to be. I'm tired of Roshi.

[Oracle]

I played a game of Starcraft the other day. My opponent had a mine field protecting their third base and my army would have been eviscerated going through it. I could have gone around but that would have taken too long, I could have bypassed them by air but that's arduous and risky, or I could have brought in detection for the mines and safely taken them out from afar. What I actually did was sacrifice 3/4ths of my army to the mines and took out his base with what remained, as he had nothing but the the mines for protection.

And that's the way strategy works. If your strategy is vulnerable to the application of force then it fails on a basic level. Kunshi should have had a better one.

I totally agree but it kinda hard to do the analogy since you actually took damage from loosing part of your army. Here Goku was just fresh. Goku vs Hit part II was the same, Hit came with new cool techniques and Goku just beat him with a overpowered Kamehameha.

This is probably one of the major complaints about this episode and I agree with, that Kunshi guy had an interesting abillity that I think they could show Goku overcome by outsmarting him.

They already had Hit throwing sound punches so him and it was freaking amazing. I wouldn't have mind if Goku use some ki blast smartly to destroy the trap.
Still an amazing episode.

[Bullza]

I don't know if anyone knows what the name of that new track was by any chance do they?

You know the one where Hit fights Dyspo at the end? Pretty sure I hadn't heard that one before.

[Nickolaidas]

Next episode looks as boring as I expect it to be. I'm tired of Roshi.

You make it sound as if the show was forcing him down your throat for the past five years. Poor guy barely showed his face after Daimaoh killed him twenty years ago.

[Simere]

I totally agree but it kinda hard to do the analogy since you actually took damage from loosing part of your army. Here Goku was just fresh.

I noticed that shortcoming in my analogy but I was too committed to back out. Close enough is good enough for me when it comes to analogies anyway, for all that's all analogies can be; actual understanding is up to the listener.

I also defended the way he beat Hit's tactic in the rematch as being strategic. I understand saying that power always winning out is boring, and I wouldn't ever bother responding if that's all that was said. I only take issue when power is contrasted with "strategy", as if they're a separate thing. "Goku's not a strategic fighter, he brute forces everything".

Power is a strategy. It doesn't make his opponents smarter fighters because they have to resort to gimmicks for a chance to win, and then their gimmicks are exposed for what they are when run up against power.

[Nickolaidas]

Power is a strategy. It doesn't make his opponents smarter fighters because they have to resort to gimmicks for a chance to win, and then their gimmicks are exposed for what they are when run up against power.

Depends on how much power was used and for what. Throwing an atomic bomb in a city in order to kill a single terrorist who has taken a hostage inside a house is not strategy. I like to think that using minimum power for maximum efficiency is a strategy.

In the case of this episode, why didn't Goku just used telekinesis or a Kamehameha to blow away his opponent instead of literally running into a minefield?

[Miracles]

I'm hoping they explain the re-appearance of SSJG, because something is definitely up with why now it's being used. If Goku knew he could use SSJG at point, why on earth did he not think about to use it at any stage before the tournament? Why did he spam the shit out SSJB after the events of the Resurrection F arc? If we don't get an explanation as to how Goku can use SSJG in the anime before the tournament ends, I'll be really fucking annoyed. And as of right now, this kinda retroactively ruins a hell of a lot Super for me if no good explanation is provided of how can use SSJG now. This really does seem like something Toriyama specifically wanted to be thrown into the tournament. Maybe we'll get an explanation for when Goku's new form pops up, so there jury is still out. But as of now... goddammit Super. You royally fumbled the grand return of SSJG. And just to makes things even more confusing, Goku can alternate between SSJB and SSJB, just like what Vegeta pulled off in the manga. Which begs the question... how strong is Goku's base form? Because with what's happened right now, we'll never be able to solve that.

Super Saiyan god is the base form of Super Saiyan Blue which is the Super Saiyan form of Red. Stated in RoF,thinking it ever left is ridiculous.
Goku using Red on opponents whom he needed to use Blue on is thoughtless. Red never came up simply cause his opponents were either Blue or Super Saiyan level.

[Simere]

Power is a strategy. It doesn't make his opponents smarter fighters because they have to resort to gimmicks for a chance to win, and then their gimmicks are exposed for what they are when run up against power.

Depends on how much power was used and for what. Throwing an atomic bomb in a city in order to kill a single terrorist who has taken a hostage inside a house is not strategy. I like to think that using minimum power for maximum efficiency is a strategy.

Well...not all strategies need be good. That would fall into the bin of "bad strategy", along with Kunshi's.

In the case of this episode, why didn't Goku just used telekinesis or a Kamehameha to blow away his opponent instead of literally running into a minefield?

Because he didn't need to. The explosions were either too slow to hit him or not strong enough to dent him(couldn't tell which). The simplest solution is the best. Just because it's fancier doesn't mean it's smarter.

[Zagacious]

So we're over 100 episodes in, Goku uses a form we haven't seen since episode 13, in the first arc btw, and we don't even get an explanation as to why he stopped using it, or why he suddenly decided to bring it back? Also, really don't see the point in having both SSG and SSB, what is even the big difference in power? Might as well keep him in base from now on, since the power scale is so broken.

It's really strange when the writers do things like this. Hyping up his 'transformation' in the last episode only for it to pretty much mean nothing like they keep doing to Jiren. Let's hope it actually leads to a new transformation in the next episode or three or it won't make any sense at all. Then he changed back to SSB mid battle making SSG seem even more pointless. Overall great episode, but I keep getting the idea they are coming up with great ideas and then just scrapping them last minute, I don't know why else they'd keep hyping up certain battles/characters only to find out they're basically fodder by the end of the episode.

Don't get me wrong, great episode, but this weird false hype thing is kind of getting annoying. How many NEP previews looked as if Jiren was going to be fighting that episode, and how many did he actually fight in? Then hyping up battles between characters like Vegeta and Ribrianne only to find out she's not very powerful at all is pretty disappointing, makes me wonder why they would show it in the first place. I mean obviously we expect Vegeta to be stronger than her, but not so much stronger that she can't even properly fight him without getting one shotted. IMO way too many characters are becoming fodder. It feels like they're doing it intentionally to rush the tournament so they don't have to make any interesting fights between lesser characters and just focus on Goku vs Jiren.. well that's fine, but it's not really a Battle Royale the way they are portraying it.. pretty much every battle has been more or less a 2v2 or 1v1.

[FortuneSSJ]

Next episode looks as boring as I expect it to be. I'm tired of Roshi.

You make it sound as if the show was forcing him down your throat for the past five years. Poor guy barely showed his face after Daimaoh killed him twenty years ago.

Not 5 years, but for 2/3 years to be more precise since ROF Movie. He coming to the frontlines to fight Freeza's soldiers, after doing nothing since Piccolo Daimao arc, felt random.
Even more when other stronger characters like Buu, Yamcha, Goten and Trunks were pushed to the sidelines.

He's the just like Pilaf gang. He was done before DBZ and I don't see any point on bringing him back to the frontlines. After all he's the one that said he would retire in 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai arc...He helping Goku with the Mafuba in FT Trunks arc is the kind of things they can do with his character. Bring him to the frontlines and make him look like he's still a big deal doesn't feel right.

Next episode they are making sound like he was to sacrifice his own life to win. If he wasn't weak, he wouldn't have to do that. Unless he's fighting someone really OP which I doubt.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

I don't like this SSG to SSGSS thing, but I thought it was handled better here than the Manga so props I guess. The reason this episode was good because it was more focused than the others, the god talk wasn't obnoxious as previous episodes, the art looked great nothing stood out offensively and some nice animated moments, if more episodes are like this here on out then brilliant. 35 minutes though.... eugh it is starting to wane on me, hope like the recruitment arc there is a massive time skip like we start having 5 minute increments.

[Lord Beerus]

I have to say, absolutely love how they addressed that Dyspo looked like Beerus. It was lampshade hanging at its best. I love it when Dragon Ball is so meta when its humor.

Champa also continues to be one of the the funniest guys Dragon Ball has ever introduced. The vuvuzela part killed me.

[precita]

So only 3 Pride Troopers have God like power. I bet even the Cell saga incarnation of the main characters could take out the 7 Pride Troopers.

[RedHeat]

So only 3 Pride Troopers have God like power. I bet even the Cell saga incarnation of the main characters could take out the 7 Pride Troopers.

Probably not, considering it took a SSG and a current SSJ2-tier characters to beat them.

[Jigurashi]

A Jiren related question:

Could it be that Jiren has the same or better ability like Dyspo... The Get Lost meeting could be explained in simialr manner. Gokus tarts using his mouth and Jiren speed blitz him

Not totally related to your question, but I think Jiren has been studying potential opponents. Hence why he slightly grimaced when Toppo mentioned the trap Hit set.

So he now knows all of Hit's tricks and Goku's transformations.

This is a good point. Jiren and Toppo were observing Hitto and Goku and they have complete knowledge of Hitto's abilities, and most of Goku's forms. They even know the trick to Hitto's intangibility.

Power is a strategy. It doesn't make his opponents smarter fighters because they have to resort to gimmicks for a chance to win, and then their gimmicks are exposed for what they are when run up against power.

Depends on how much power was used and for what. Throwing an atomic bomb in a city in order to kill a single terrorist who has taken a hostage inside a house is not strategy. I like to think that using minimum power for maximum efficiency is a strategy.

In the case of this episode, why didn't Goku just used telekinesis or a Kamehameha to blow away his opponent instead of literally running into a minefield?

Probably cause he knew he could tank it. He didn't really seem to give a damn about the mines at all. He did have the SSG-SSB tactic which was nice to see. A pretty tactical episode all around.

[Lord Frieza]

So only 3 Pride Troopers have God like power. I bet even the Cell saga incarnation of the main characters could take out the 7 Pride Troopers.

Probably not, considering it took a SSG and a current SSJ2-tier characters to beat them.

With one of them going Legendery/Bersek in the process.

Any member of the Pride Troopers could wipe the floor with that deluded, giant cockroach.

[precita]

Kale knocked out that lizard guy in one punch makes no difference though, there was no way to gauge his power.

[Lord Frieza]

Kale knocked out that lizard guy in one punch makes no difference though, there was no way to gauge his power.

Not talking about him, I'm talking about th the fact it took SSB Kale (who's power is on a godly level) and SS2 Cauli to beat 4 of the Troopers in a beam struggle and Cocotte's powers were enough to tank the blast. Then it took Goku going SSb to be able to bumrush through Kunshi's threads.

So going by that just one of the Pride Troopers could have ended the entire Android arc on their own. Hell thats proabably just a days work for them.

[The gr]

I don't like this SSG to SSGSS thing, but I thought it was handled better here than the Manga so props I guess. The reason this episode was good because it was more focused than the others, the god talk wasn't obnoxious as previous episodes, the art looked great nothing stood out offensively and some nice animated moments, if more episodes are like this here on out then brilliant. 35 minutes though.... eugh it is starting to wane on me, hope like the recruitment arc there is a massive time skip like we start having 5 minute increments.

I think the anime handled The shorts burst antic clamatic probaly because it was brief ,ssg vegeta in spite of looking akward did a better Job dysplaying this

[Boo Machine]

Here is a recreation someone did of the new track that played towards the end of the episode if anyone wanted to listen to it by itself. He also did last weeks new track.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFuIpCt1mik