Well, I would love to see some discussion on DBZ Movie 13. It's my personal favorite just because of it's story driven awesomeness, amazing music (gotta love Tapion's theme) and overall just looks cool. I know some people think that the Ryu-Ken was a little weird, but that instantly became my favorite attack after seeing it.
It was really nice to also see Chibi Trunks not acting like a little shit and more like a kid. Tapion was also a really cool character, IMO, just wish he would've actually fought (that God for Sparking! Neo/Meteor).
The Movies...a colloborative round-table thread?
I'll stick to movie 3, I like the round-table format thanos wanted.
Having only seen a tv broadcast a long time ago, my memory is a little short; however, it felt like a real movie. Not an extended TV series episode - a full-blown movie. The silence throughout the movie... it was so fitting... That and it was my first DBZ experience (maybe second I can't remember :/). But the thing is, again, it didn't feel like an extended DBZ movie; it was it's own thing. Plus, the animation in the movie impressed me at the time; I'd have to see it again to see if it still does.
Having only seen a tv broadcast a long time ago, my memory is a little short; however, it felt like a real movie. Not an extended TV series episode - a full-blown movie. The silence throughout the movie... it was so fitting... That and it was my first DBZ experience (maybe second I can't remember :/). But the thing is, again, it didn't feel like an extended DBZ movie; it was it's own thing. Plus, the animation in the movie impressed me at the time; I'd have to see it again to see if it still does.
[quote="Brakus"]For all the flack that FUNimation gets on this forum for their quote about DBZ, there's some modicum of truth to it: a 9-year-old is born every day. Or in some cases, "reborn". DBZ may be a kids' show, but it's been so close to so many hearts all over Japan, America, and quite possibly, even the world.[/quote]
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Kunzait_83
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b
Last edited by Kunzait_83 on Sun May 01, 2011 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
http://80s90sdragonballart.tumblr.com/
Kunzait's Wuxia Thread
Kunzait's Wuxia Thread
Journey to the West, chapter 26 wrote:The strong man will meet someone stronger still:
Come to naught at last he surely will!
Zephyr wrote:And that's to say nothing of how pretty much impossible it is to capture what made the original run of the series so great. I'm in the generation of fans that started with Toonami, so I totally empathize with the feeling of having "missed the party", experiencing disappointment, and wanting to experience it myself. But I can't, that's how life is. Time is a bitch. The party is over. Kageyama, Kikuchi, and Maeda are off the sauce now; Yanami almost OD'd; Yamamoto got arrested; Toriyama's not going to light trash cans on fire and hang from the chandelier anymore. We can't get the band back together, and even if we could, everyone's either old, in poor health, or calmed way the fuck down. Best we're going to get, and are getting, is a party that's almost entirely devoid of the magic that made the original one so awesome that we even want more.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:It grinds my gears that people get "outraged" over any of this stuff. It's a fucking cartoon. If you are that determined to be angry about something, get off the internet and make a stand for something that actually matters.
Rocketman wrote:"Shonen" basically means "stupid sentimental shit" anyway, so it's ok to be anti-shonen.
I bought the movie on VHS when it first came out. I had to get my mom, who was on vacation in the US at the time to look for it because it wasn't available here.
She bought it, along with the Dead Zone and World's Strongest for me. All three were voiced by the Ocean group and had the original Japanese score.
I thought they were freakin' sweet and watched them till the tape began to degrade.
She bought it, along with the Dead Zone and World's Strongest for me. All three were voiced by the Ocean group and had the original Japanese score.
I thought they were freakin' sweet and watched them till the tape began to degrade.
Check out our home made films!
Lots of martial arts action and comedy.
http://youtube.com/profile_videos?user=HumpskiProductions
Lots of martial arts action and comedy.
http://youtube.com/profile_videos?user=HumpskiProductions
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Steven Perry
- Advanced Regular
- Posts: 1186
- Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2006 10:27 am
- Location: Hertfordshire, UK
Hmmm... yeah, that's what I was thinking.Kunzait_83 wrote:I wasn't aware they ever broadcasted the movie with the Japanese score.bkev wrote:Having only seen a tv broadcast a long time ago, my memory is a little short; however, it felt like a real movie. Not an extended TV series episode - a full-blown movie. The silence throughout the movie... it was so fitting... That and it was my first DBZ experience (maybe second I can't remember :/). But the thing is, again, it didn't feel like an extended DBZ movie; it was it's own thing. Plus, the animation in the movie impressed me at the time; I'd have to see it again to see if it still does.
Though in the UK, 2003 (?), they aired movie 3 (the Big Green dub) with the original Japanese music... at least I think they did
. Well, they aired movies 1 and 2, so I guess they did 3. That could be what bkev's talking about. If not, then you must be a... LIAR! LIAR, LIAR, PANTS ON FIRE!
*bkev's pants go on fire*
Quick, let's extinguish it with our ki!
Sorry guys, my memory must've been off.
Hey wait a minute, does this mean someone can put Ian Corlett's voice onto the uncut Ocean dub?
and also, MEH FLAMEN PANTS MEK ME SPK L337.
don't kill me Mr. Vegetto!
Hey wait a minute, does this mean someone can put Ian Corlett's voice onto the uncut Ocean dub?
and also, MEH FLAMEN PANTS MEK ME SPK L337.
don't kill me Mr. Vegetto!
[quote="Brakus"]For all the flack that FUNimation gets on this forum for their quote about DBZ, there's some modicum of truth to it: a 9-year-old is born every day. Or in some cases, "reborn". DBZ may be a kids' show, but it's been so close to so many hearts all over Japan, America, and quite possibly, even the world.[/quote]
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TheMajinRedComet
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- Location: Space
Hmm... Its probably possible. That would be a interesting challenge.
Hiei: "So tell me - what's it like living in a constant haze of Stupidity?"
Hiei: "I know as much about games as I do puppies and huggs....Wake me up for the end of world"
Welcome to Super Vegeta's Big Bang Attack.... Welcome to Oblivion!!!
Remember "When things get weird, skip the last saga"-Chris Sabat
Hiei: "I know as much about games as I do puppies and huggs....Wake me up for the end of world"
Welcome to Super Vegeta's Big Bang Attack.... Welcome to Oblivion!!!
Remember "When things get weird, skip the last saga"-Chris Sabat
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Li'l Lemmy
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So long as we're (apparently) not exactly glued to any one single movie, I'll post some thoughts on my favorite DBZ movie of all time and then let you guys go about your business. Feel free to skip this radical nonsense, as it's quite long.
A Pair In Peril!! Superwarriors Cannot Rest ~ A Review by Lemmy Pierce
Nutshell: A fun outing of lighthearted, inconsequential fluff that takes bold risks with reliable DBZ attractions and elements-- most times with success, but other times without.
From the Back of the Box
Broly is back, and he's out for revenge! While searching for the Dragon Balls, Goten, Videl, and Trunks learn the truth about Goku's first encounter with the Legendary Super Saiyan: Broly survived!
Now he has invaded Earth, threatening not only his arch-rival, but every innocent person on the peaceful planet. Seeing Goku's broken body laid before his feet is the only thing that will quench Broly's thirst for revenge.
Brave Goten only fuels Broly's rage causing him to unleash an incredible assault against Earth's heroes. Gohan and Krillin soon join the battle and face their most perilous challenge, and possibly their last!
Curse of the Sequel
DragonBall Z: The Next Generation
Unfortunate as it may be, sequels of popular movies are almost always given the distinction of being just that-- a sequel. A movie sequel is most usually given the destiny that no matter what, it can't possibly live up to the quality of the original, and often before it has actually been given a fair chance.
Though much of it is a matter of opinion and interpretation, it does stand to reason that movie sequels have more or less earned this position of assumption; while not necessarily rare, it isn't exactly commonplace that the sequel ends up matching its glorious predecessor, much less succeeding it . . . but then, must it really accomplish the latter to avoid being slapped with the B level rating?
Unfortunately-- or is that "fortunately"?-- we can almost never apply the same standards to a DBZ movie that we do to "real" films or even just American-made animation. DBZ movies, of course, are simply not like other movies; they're not always meant to have a strong plot that you can make into a novelization or a Broadway play, and they don't necessarily want to. A DBZ movie is . . . well, it's DBZ; it's meant to be the fun of a furious fighting saga crammed into 45 minute chunklets, and it counts heavily on the viewer being already familiar with the series and its characters, the fact that "plot" usually translates into a super-charged battle for dominance and the particular style in which it integrates all these elements.
So on that level, the reality is that the DBZ movies can really only be compared amongst themselves. It would be wrong to level one of them with something like Warner Bros. or Disney, because of course DBZ comes from Japan and has its own unique style of storytelling that isn't necessarily superior or inferior to what's typically found stateside. It's just different . . . and that being said, probably isn't intended to follow the hopeful progression of the second movie being better than the first; Second Coming isn't really meant to be a sequel at all so much as it is another "chapter" of the DBZ movie legacy, or at least that's how I've always thought to accept it. The fact that Broli returns is simply the idea of the movie, and not necessarily meant to be better or worse than the idea that inspired it.
Refresher Course
It could just be my opinion, but if feels as though a little love was put into Movie 8.
Capitalizing on the popularity of golden hair that stands up on end, the eighth installment put down the traditional concept of one alien adversary after another and did what only Movie 3 had done before by introducing a Saiya-jin as the bad guy. But other than the obvious battle set to take place, the similarities between the two movies are ended there; while Tullece was "just another Saiya-jin" who happened to survive the destruction of the homeworld, Broli has-- or rather, the movie signifies that he has-- a place in Saiya-jin history, prophecy and lore that Tullece did not, and in this the movie added something new to the legacy of the Saiya-jin. Which always makes us happy since to a lot of us the Saiya-jin are DBZ.
And despite the fact that yet another Saiya-jin has survived the massacre and strained the credibility of the Saiya-jin as a lost race just that much more, it makes sense that after the introduction of Super Saiya-jin we would eventually see one presented as someone for the Z gang to fight and overcome.
Every movie villain along the DBZ line from start to finish is evil, which I suppose is unavoidable for the sake of a fight to save the planet. However, Broli was cleverly disguised through the first half of Movie 8 as "not the villain"; something I appreciated for its mystery value (if you forget that the FUNimation cover reads BROLY: The Legendary Super Saiyan) that isn't really repeated in any of the movies before or after. It was only until he lost control and became the freak unleashed that he exploded into DBZ history as one bad mutha . . . and with a halfway decent backstory behind him and the time taken to explore it, Broli's punches carried some serious weight when compared to previous movie adversaries, which for me meant that the fight that ensued was very entertaining to watch.
Kick-ass animation makes the characters in Movie 10 come alive on the screen.
As a personality, Broli's takes a drastic change at the movie's midway point; when Paragus at last loses control of his son, Broli goes from being mute and and launches into an unholy bloodthirst for carnage that is perhaps unmatched by any of the movie villains that come before or since. The Legendary Super Saiya-jin is consumed not only by his own insanity, but by the incredible power he had been forced to keep dormant for years upon years against his will, and so the two go hand in hand in making him such an outrageous and intimidating foe that even Vegeta shows signs of fear. With his insane mind now free, Broli showed the personality of his dark mind in just about everything he said right up until battle's end, though perhaps the line I liked best was "Monster? Not so! I am a devil!"
The movie can stand on its own before the climactic battle, as well . . . at least I like to think so. Even though the majority of the first half is spent exploring the motives of Paragus and the mystery surrounding the Legendary Super Saiya-jin, it's a welcome change from the all-too-usual villain who appears out of nowhere and begins an indiscriminate rampage for no reason. It's also a necessary setup to the fight that comes afterwards, and helps contribute to the feel that this really is a DBZ movie and not just the usual side adventure.
There's still some fun to be had; Movie 8 crams together the best friends of the DBZ universe for the most lengthy of the 13 DBZ films, with Goku, Gohan, Vegeta, Piccolo, Kuririn, and a bunch more characters thrown into the mix for everyone's enjoyment . . . and every character has at least one good line or fun situation that makes it worth waiting for the eventual battle for the universe.
The second part of Movie 8 is of course the real meat that keeps fans coming back for one fight after another. Angry, powerful and criminally insane, Broli spent the latter half of Movie 8 whaling on the Z crew and handing their asses to them one by one, and it wasn't until the energies of Gohan, Trunks, Piccolo and Vegeta were fused with Goku's battle power that the Legendary Super Saiya-jin was finally felled in a spectacular death scene of well-deserved comeuppance.
But is Broli really dead?
Round Two
Shhh! Don't tell anyone that there's no Piccolo or Vegeta in this one!
Being that he has the honor of being one of only two movie villains (the other being Cooler) that are resurrected in some form, Broli must have been a popular villain to receive a sequel. Set seven years after the Cell games and the first Broli movie, Second Coming unexpectedly brings the Legendary Super Saiya-jin back to life after the interjection of Movie 9 and Bojack.
The movie starts with the scene of a Saiya-jin spacepod hurtling through space to enter Earth's atmosphere. It crash-lands in a desolate mountain range and out from it pours a bloody and beaten Broli, who somehow survived Movie 8 and has followed Goku home for revenge. Enraged, the battered Saiya-jin howls for "Kakarotto" to reveal himself. However, the blistering combat that took place on the faux planet Vegeta finally takes its toll and causes Broli to lose consciousness in the midst of an oncoming storm, and in time a layer of ice and snow clouds over the pod's crater and freezes the sleeping Saiya-jin solid for seven years.
Flash forward. Goku died, Gohan grew up and Goten was born during the seven year period, and now Trunks and Goten have begun their first exciting search for the Dragonballs. Videl is with them, and after having gathered all but the Four-Star ball (amidst constant bickering) they come across a village that is under siege by a great monster of the mountains that has been feeding and killing off the locals. Trunks and Goten offer to defeat the monster (a giant dinosaur) and do so with ease, but during that time and in one of the movie's best scenes Goten inadvertently triggers the awakening of the Legendary Super Saiya-jin frozen within the ice, and a dramatic fight ensues to save the planet from Broli's insane rage.
Videl is the first to encounter Broli and is all but eliminated, causing Goten and Trunks to step in. The first half of the fight is spent with the two Super Saiya-jin chibis trying to hold their own against Broli in a fairly comedic clash as they struggle just to stay alive-- during which they recover the final Dragonball-- while the second is a more serious affair when reinforcements arrive in the form of adult Gohan. Despite his best efforts, even Gohan's Super Saiya-jin strength proves no match for Broli's might as takes a serious beating under the crushing weight of both Broli and his unfortunate position of being Earth's defender in his father's place; a responsibility he hasn't quite prepared for or gotten used to since the Cell Game.
Most Adorable. Character. Ever.
Even so, Gohan goes for all-or-nothing with a last Kamehame-Ha and ends up in a clash of energies with Broli. Goten recovers and joins in, but it simply isn't enough; at best, it seems that Broli is merely toying with them and their lack of power . . . but just as the situation looks completely hopeless, the Dragonballs hum in unison and suddenly Goku is standing together with his sons as if from nowhere, reminding them that they'll have to learn how someday to protect the earth without him. Goku adds his energy to fill out a triple Kamehame-Ha and coaches his sons on to victory, and at last the three manage (with Trunks' help) to completely blow Broli away and launch him straight into the sun, where he burns alive and finally explodes with a mangled howl of "Kakarotto!!"
Tripping the Rift . . . Between Movies
It's important to note that there are a few major differences between Second Coming and its parent movie, and while we might not like all of them, I can appreciate them for the value of bringing something different to what could have very easily been a cookie-cutter sequel.
The structure of the movie is very different, and somehow stumbles into its plot rather than revolving around it. Instead of the unfolding mystery we had in Movie 8, we have a Dragonball hunt, the plight of Natade Village and an encounter with a dinosaur before Broli is even brought into the picture. Some people will dismiss this as a distraction that takes away from the main idea, but I'm willing to welcome it as a different concept of how that idea is brought about. Not only does it introduce Broli in a different way, it gives us the necessary chance to learn something about the new characters before throwing them into battle.
And new characters are what this movie is all about. Compared to the utter universe of fan favorites in Movie 8, the cast of characters is fairly reduced in Second Coming, which trades most of the familiar faces we've come to expect for the trio of Goten, Trunks and Videl; all characters making their first appearance in a DBZ movie. Anchoring the cast is our man Gohan, who has been in every movie prior but makes his debut as an adult here and thereby serves the dual function of completing the movie's fresh perspective while giving those of us who fear change someone familiar to hold onto.
Kuririn returns from his vacation in the Middle East.
But as much of a thrill it is to see some fresh faces, the history of the first film is impossible to ignore and creates a very conspicuous and somewhat uncomfortable hole in that typical DBZ mainstays like Vegeta nor Piccolo never show their faces to confront Broli at any time, leaving us to make our own excuse as to why they don't show up. A viewer watching the movie for the first time would probably expect that at least one or the other (Vegeta in particular) would appear, but they just . . . don't. And that will definitely leave some of us confused and/or disappointed.
Omitting some of the more classic characters is a bold, risky move, and from one perspective appears to defy logic. I could understand Piccolo not showing up, but given the impact Broli and Vegeta had on one another in the first movie, it strikes me as particularly odd that the Saiya-jin prince is a no-show here. What's more, I find it strange that Vegeta should be mentioned by Trunks partway through-- which I would take as a definite foreshadowing to his arrival-- and still not appear. I suppose Vegeta was ommited specifically so that we could create excuses as to why, because I can't say I know of any logical reason for it; after all, Goku has the notable handicap of being dead, but that doesn't stop him. Maybe Vegeta fell asleep to the TV.
But while some of us are going to miss the typical characters, I think for the most part that the gamble pays off for this particular movie. With the introduction of characters that are new to the DBZ movie legacy, we have the chance for some new ingredients to be added to an old formula; an idea that in many ways works to the movie's advantage. It would have been easy and very tempting to pile the majority of the characters from Movie 8 and throw them into some sort of rematch, essentially telling the same story all over again with new bruises and a different ending, but instead we're given a fresh, new perspective through other characters and situations. Goten, Trunks, Videl, their search for the Dragonballs and their adventure with the dinosaur are all a fun departure from what for some of the past movies has been strictly a let's-go-fight-the-bad-guy mentality from start to finish, and the fact that Broli is an unfamiliar enemy is something of a treat for us in that we know what he's capable of while our friendly fools don't, which builds on the anticipation of something new. Indeed, the small Saiya-jin and their hapless baby-sitter don't know what the hell is going on when Broli finally does show up, and their ignorance provides for a string of DragonBall-style humor and fun that reminds us of the series roots. ("'Kakarotto'? I've never eaten anything like that . . . I've never eaten anything like that!!")
Fight Club
It was good to see Videl interacting with characters other than Gohan for her first movie appearance, and I think it's even better that she doesn't get along with Trunks and Goten in quite the way I would have expected. I think that their good-natured bickering is far better than the scenario where they would all get along like instant friends, which I think would have been too much since Trunks and Goten are already best friends as it is. Videl is the outsider to the Dragon World who has much to learn and is a welcome human element to the story. Some of Movie's 10's best moments are between these three and their "kid versus adult" interactions with one another, such as Goten's crocodile tears and when Videl is utterly shocked by the children's casual display of power.
If he's looking in your direction, it's already too late.
But even into the battle, comedy plays a role for at least the first half. Some of it is pretty crude, and maybe it should have been used more sparingly. But then it'd be hard for me to choose what deserves omission . . . do we really want to sacrifice the scene where Trunks inadvertently ends up urinating on the Legendary Super Saiya-jin?! Or our stellar view of the dark side of the (Trunks)moon(ing)? Perhaps only the opposite scene where Goten ends up urinating seemed unnecessary, and he didn't even wash his hands, did he? Even so, Trunks's confidence and Goten's naivete and general cuteness made me smile throughout, and though they end up unable to overcome Broli the battle was worth watching if only for those little nuggets of amusement. (One dub line I din't particularly mind: "Shenron! . . . come out and get the bad man!" Hee.)
Eventually the two chibi saiya-jin are overpowered, and then it's time for Gohan to step in. The battle quickly goes downhill from there, at least for Gohan; however, the short fight between Gohan and Broli felt well-paced and nicely choreographed as Gohan's sharp wit and endless determination clashed furiously with Broli's raw power at every turn . . . in particular, the scene where Gohan tries to lure his opponent into the lava felt original and was actually pretty damned smart, even if it didn't work. It's at this point where Kuririn makes a guest appearance, and though (as usual) he isn't much help, he does serve a purpose in saving Gohan. It's a shame he's always relegated to the back-seat these days, though . . .
The battle itself doesn't quite reach the level of pain and excitement that it did in Movie 8, but that's partially because Broli has far less people to fight this time around. The most hardcore fans among us might not be satisfied with this, but Broli does at least present himself in a way that can still be recognized as himself (unlike in Movie 11, but I digress). He isn't the chatterbox he was before, but he does attack in his typical "overkill" mode and becomes fairly menacing by the time he reaches the "Legendary" form, by then boasting the same insane rage that robs him of control and drives him to kill simply because he can. He does torture one or two of the characters at different points in the story, and looks as though he quite enjoys it . . . so at least for parts of the movie, Broli does seem to be in fine form.
Character Assassination
The movie does have its flaws, and of the most notable is the movie's main attraction . . . which can be a very bad thing if you're big on the original, considering that the strength of this sequel in the eyes of many rests with Broli the Legendary Super Saiya-jin himself. While in decent form, this is not the monster we know from before.
That Broli is one bitch of a hair stylist!
Most noticably, Broli has far less to talk about this time around. Where he very nearly didn't shut up in his original debut, in his first sequel Broli is restricted to a few utterances of "Kakarotto" (with the exception of a single line of dialogue towards the end) and is generally very quiet. While I wouldn't necessarily expect that Broli should have a lot to say to people he doesn't know-- in fact, Goten's resemblance to Goku is the only thing that gets him talking at all-- it would still be good to hear some of the angry bloodthirst that made him such a strong presence in Movie 8; as it is here, Broli's lack of a vocabulary lends us so little of his established personality that his attacks must do the talking for him.
Few and far between for the first half of the fight, the attacks unfortunately don't say a whole lot, and are nowhere near as vicious or unrelenting as we remember. Broli starts out strong enough with just a hint of the brutality that's made him famous (smashing the kids' faces against solid rock, for example), but rather than unleash the hell and completely overwhelm Goten and Trunks the way we would expect, he ends up spending more time being attacked as the movie goes on and appears almost to be toyed with by the children's limited abilities at times, managing somehow to resist killing them despite the endless humiliations they put him through.
Perhaps this isn't necessarily so much a fault of Broli as it is his new setting. Given the circumstances, the situation just isn't as desperate as it ought to be: Goten and Trunks are not the serious opponents their fathers were, and it's thanks to these two that an air of lightheartedness lends the first half of the movie a feeling that what's taking place is inconsequential fluff. While fighting to survive, the two kids always keep one step ahead and manage the most unimaginable things through pure dumb luck; mooned, peed on and suckered into their games of hide-and-seek, Broli is turned into a comic device that does provide for a few good laughs but ultimately takes something away from his character, because we know that he can do better than this.
Theoretically, it may also have something to do with the fact that Broli spends the majority of the movie in normal Super Saiya-jin mode rather than jumping to full power right away; something we only caught a glimpse of before. But while it's true that his behavior falls in line somewhat with what little we saw of the blue-haired Super Saiya-jin version in the original movie-- mute, and seemingly unaware-- we all know that it just isn't the Broli we were all hoping to see. If the Legendary Super Saiya-jin was prohibited from using his full power for most of his life, one wonders why he would bother running around not using it for as long as he did in this movie now that his insane mind is without any restrictions. Where there was once a face of unabashed insanity that inspired fear, we instead get to see urine trickling down all over it.
Two words: bring it.
Speaking for the other side of the coin, all of this comedic mayhem is well within character for the young Trunks and Goten. Despite their exceptional powers, the young Saiya-jin aren't hardened fighters; they're little children, and in allowing them to play into that role the movie shows us something reasonably different from the unwaveringly determined, battle-ready characters of its predecessors. These are new and different people that are given a fitting introduction to the movie universe, because having them come off as determined warrior clones right off the bat would be a disservice to the Trunks and Goten we know from the series.
However, towards the end of their struggle it feels almost like a little too much fun, leaving some of us waiting for the action to pick up and bring things to a more serious level. Fortunately, the two kids can't hold out forever. The movie's power-up comes in the form of Gohan, who arrives in time to save his younger brother from certain doom and causes the action to shift into true DBZ mode.
It's here where most of the natural order is restored. Gohan's appearance gives Broli the reason to transform into the Legendary Super Saiya-jin and become the unstoppable force we remember from Movie 8, and he launches into an all-out assault to wipe his adversary into a smear on the pavement. This is the Broli we all came here to see, and on this level he largely fails to disappoint-- for the hardcore Broli fan, this is where your viewing is likely to be centered and the movie validated.
The Legendary Super Sequel?
All in all, the movie has its ups and downs. The main highlight would probably be the ending, which just might rank up there with the best endings of all the DBZ movies, while the low points would really count on the individual-- as many positives as I think Second Coming has, there's probably something in this movie that just about everyone can find not to like, whether it be Broli's apparent loss of tongue, the lack of a favorite character or simply an affinity for the original so big that no sequel could ever come close.
Myself, I enjoyed this movie very much. It's always a fairly unoriginal idea to bring up the "revenge" plot, it's true, but both the setup and execution-- while not entirely flawless-- are different enough from the first that I think the sequel is worth its own existence. The chibi Saiya-jins' first of many movie appearances is fun and held my interest. The fighting doesn't reach that same extreme level as Movie 8, but the Gohan vs. Broli battle is still exciting and something of a reward for anyone who wanted to see a one-on-one bout between the two in the first movie but didn't.
The animation is extremely well done. and quite nearly makes Movie 9 look like pigeon poop by comparison . . . and that's saying a lot; Movie 9 is freakin' beautiful! The characters here are very fluid and articulate, with nary a mistake, and there are moments that just really stand out; the explosion of lava from the earth's crust and the first real punch Gohan lands on Broli's face, among others. The backgrounds really sparkle and every scene just smacks with effort, and it just looks at though they really enjoyed drawing this movie and the characters who live in it.
Second Coming might not be the sequel that it could or should be, depending on how you judge-- I can only really speak for myself, after all-- but it's certainly a decent outing. And maybe there's people who didn't care for the original anyway and like this installment better. It is very different from its predecessor, and in that respect it stands out both as a decent sequel and its own movie.
Not Exactly Filling, But Still A Tasty Second Course
On the plus side: Instead of relying on the formula of its predecessor, a different, more easygoing plot and the fresh faces of Videl, Goten and Trunks lay down the groundwork for something original that is genuinely fun to watch while still maintaining the basic idea of DBZ, achieving a difficult balance. Fun humor that grows from the characters makes for good interaction and great viewing. (Goten and Trunks are a hoot-and-a-half.) Sharp, well-defined and all-around amazing animation has my vote for the best of all thirteen movies, and the strong ending has an impact as one of the most memorable moments in the series' entire history.
On the minus side: Though not completely watered-down, Broli's damaged character spends the majority of the movie too even-tempered compared to last time and is made out to be the butt of a kiddie comedy routine that not everyone will like. The frenetic fighting action DBZ fans expect doesn't really materialize until the last twenty minutes, making the humorous scenes with Trunks and Goten a bit wearing on those hoping to see a life-and-death struggle, and Broli is ultimately dispatched without having recieved any real development.
That'll do it for me.
Images courtesy of and edited by Lemmy Pierce
~Da Lemmy
A Pair In Peril!! Superwarriors Cannot Rest ~ A Review by Lemmy Pierce
Nutshell: A fun outing of lighthearted, inconsequential fluff that takes bold risks with reliable DBZ attractions and elements-- most times with success, but other times without.
From the Back of the Box
Broly is back, and he's out for revenge! While searching for the Dragon Balls, Goten, Videl, and Trunks learn the truth about Goku's first encounter with the Legendary Super Saiyan: Broly survived!
Now he has invaded Earth, threatening not only his arch-rival, but every innocent person on the peaceful planet. Seeing Goku's broken body laid before his feet is the only thing that will quench Broly's thirst for revenge.
Brave Goten only fuels Broly's rage causing him to unleash an incredible assault against Earth's heroes. Gohan and Krillin soon join the battle and face their most perilous challenge, and possibly their last!
Curse of the Sequel
DragonBall Z: The Next Generation
Unfortunate as it may be, sequels of popular movies are almost always given the distinction of being just that-- a sequel. A movie sequel is most usually given the destiny that no matter what, it can't possibly live up to the quality of the original, and often before it has actually been given a fair chance.
Though much of it is a matter of opinion and interpretation, it does stand to reason that movie sequels have more or less earned this position of assumption; while not necessarily rare, it isn't exactly commonplace that the sequel ends up matching its glorious predecessor, much less succeeding it . . . but then, must it really accomplish the latter to avoid being slapped with the B level rating?
Unfortunately-- or is that "fortunately"?-- we can almost never apply the same standards to a DBZ movie that we do to "real" films or even just American-made animation. DBZ movies, of course, are simply not like other movies; they're not always meant to have a strong plot that you can make into a novelization or a Broadway play, and they don't necessarily want to. A DBZ movie is . . . well, it's DBZ; it's meant to be the fun of a furious fighting saga crammed into 45 minute chunklets, and it counts heavily on the viewer being already familiar with the series and its characters, the fact that "plot" usually translates into a super-charged battle for dominance and the particular style in which it integrates all these elements.
So on that level, the reality is that the DBZ movies can really only be compared amongst themselves. It would be wrong to level one of them with something like Warner Bros. or Disney, because of course DBZ comes from Japan and has its own unique style of storytelling that isn't necessarily superior or inferior to what's typically found stateside. It's just different . . . and that being said, probably isn't intended to follow the hopeful progression of the second movie being better than the first; Second Coming isn't really meant to be a sequel at all so much as it is another "chapter" of the DBZ movie legacy, or at least that's how I've always thought to accept it. The fact that Broli returns is simply the idea of the movie, and not necessarily meant to be better or worse than the idea that inspired it.
Refresher Course
It could just be my opinion, but if feels as though a little love was put into Movie 8.
Capitalizing on the popularity of golden hair that stands up on end, the eighth installment put down the traditional concept of one alien adversary after another and did what only Movie 3 had done before by introducing a Saiya-jin as the bad guy. But other than the obvious battle set to take place, the similarities between the two movies are ended there; while Tullece was "just another Saiya-jin" who happened to survive the destruction of the homeworld, Broli has-- or rather, the movie signifies that he has-- a place in Saiya-jin history, prophecy and lore that Tullece did not, and in this the movie added something new to the legacy of the Saiya-jin. Which always makes us happy since to a lot of us the Saiya-jin are DBZ.
And despite the fact that yet another Saiya-jin has survived the massacre and strained the credibility of the Saiya-jin as a lost race just that much more, it makes sense that after the introduction of Super Saiya-jin we would eventually see one presented as someone for the Z gang to fight and overcome.
Every movie villain along the DBZ line from start to finish is evil, which I suppose is unavoidable for the sake of a fight to save the planet. However, Broli was cleverly disguised through the first half of Movie 8 as "not the villain"; something I appreciated for its mystery value (if you forget that the FUNimation cover reads BROLY: The Legendary Super Saiyan) that isn't really repeated in any of the movies before or after. It was only until he lost control and became the freak unleashed that he exploded into DBZ history as one bad mutha . . . and with a halfway decent backstory behind him and the time taken to explore it, Broli's punches carried some serious weight when compared to previous movie adversaries, which for me meant that the fight that ensued was very entertaining to watch.
Kick-ass animation makes the characters in Movie 10 come alive on the screen.
As a personality, Broli's takes a drastic change at the movie's midway point; when Paragus at last loses control of his son, Broli goes from being mute and and launches into an unholy bloodthirst for carnage that is perhaps unmatched by any of the movie villains that come before or since. The Legendary Super Saiya-jin is consumed not only by his own insanity, but by the incredible power he had been forced to keep dormant for years upon years against his will, and so the two go hand in hand in making him such an outrageous and intimidating foe that even Vegeta shows signs of fear. With his insane mind now free, Broli showed the personality of his dark mind in just about everything he said right up until battle's end, though perhaps the line I liked best was "Monster? Not so! I am a devil!"
The movie can stand on its own before the climactic battle, as well . . . at least I like to think so. Even though the majority of the first half is spent exploring the motives of Paragus and the mystery surrounding the Legendary Super Saiya-jin, it's a welcome change from the all-too-usual villain who appears out of nowhere and begins an indiscriminate rampage for no reason. It's also a necessary setup to the fight that comes afterwards, and helps contribute to the feel that this really is a DBZ movie and not just the usual side adventure.
There's still some fun to be had; Movie 8 crams together the best friends of the DBZ universe for the most lengthy of the 13 DBZ films, with Goku, Gohan, Vegeta, Piccolo, Kuririn, and a bunch more characters thrown into the mix for everyone's enjoyment . . . and every character has at least one good line or fun situation that makes it worth waiting for the eventual battle for the universe.
The second part of Movie 8 is of course the real meat that keeps fans coming back for one fight after another. Angry, powerful and criminally insane, Broli spent the latter half of Movie 8 whaling on the Z crew and handing their asses to them one by one, and it wasn't until the energies of Gohan, Trunks, Piccolo and Vegeta were fused with Goku's battle power that the Legendary Super Saiya-jin was finally felled in a spectacular death scene of well-deserved comeuppance.
But is Broli really dead?
Round Two
Shhh! Don't tell anyone that there's no Piccolo or Vegeta in this one!
Being that he has the honor of being one of only two movie villains (the other being Cooler) that are resurrected in some form, Broli must have been a popular villain to receive a sequel. Set seven years after the Cell games and the first Broli movie, Second Coming unexpectedly brings the Legendary Super Saiya-jin back to life after the interjection of Movie 9 and Bojack.
The movie starts with the scene of a Saiya-jin spacepod hurtling through space to enter Earth's atmosphere. It crash-lands in a desolate mountain range and out from it pours a bloody and beaten Broli, who somehow survived Movie 8 and has followed Goku home for revenge. Enraged, the battered Saiya-jin howls for "Kakarotto" to reveal himself. However, the blistering combat that took place on the faux planet Vegeta finally takes its toll and causes Broli to lose consciousness in the midst of an oncoming storm, and in time a layer of ice and snow clouds over the pod's crater and freezes the sleeping Saiya-jin solid for seven years.
Flash forward. Goku died, Gohan grew up and Goten was born during the seven year period, and now Trunks and Goten have begun their first exciting search for the Dragonballs. Videl is with them, and after having gathered all but the Four-Star ball (amidst constant bickering) they come across a village that is under siege by a great monster of the mountains that has been feeding and killing off the locals. Trunks and Goten offer to defeat the monster (a giant dinosaur) and do so with ease, but during that time and in one of the movie's best scenes Goten inadvertently triggers the awakening of the Legendary Super Saiya-jin frozen within the ice, and a dramatic fight ensues to save the planet from Broli's insane rage.
Videl is the first to encounter Broli and is all but eliminated, causing Goten and Trunks to step in. The first half of the fight is spent with the two Super Saiya-jin chibis trying to hold their own against Broli in a fairly comedic clash as they struggle just to stay alive-- during which they recover the final Dragonball-- while the second is a more serious affair when reinforcements arrive in the form of adult Gohan. Despite his best efforts, even Gohan's Super Saiya-jin strength proves no match for Broli's might as takes a serious beating under the crushing weight of both Broli and his unfortunate position of being Earth's defender in his father's place; a responsibility he hasn't quite prepared for or gotten used to since the Cell Game.
Most Adorable. Character. Ever.
Even so, Gohan goes for all-or-nothing with a last Kamehame-Ha and ends up in a clash of energies with Broli. Goten recovers and joins in, but it simply isn't enough; at best, it seems that Broli is merely toying with them and their lack of power . . . but just as the situation looks completely hopeless, the Dragonballs hum in unison and suddenly Goku is standing together with his sons as if from nowhere, reminding them that they'll have to learn how someday to protect the earth without him. Goku adds his energy to fill out a triple Kamehame-Ha and coaches his sons on to victory, and at last the three manage (with Trunks' help) to completely blow Broli away and launch him straight into the sun, where he burns alive and finally explodes with a mangled howl of "Kakarotto!!"
Tripping the Rift . . . Between Movies
It's important to note that there are a few major differences between Second Coming and its parent movie, and while we might not like all of them, I can appreciate them for the value of bringing something different to what could have very easily been a cookie-cutter sequel.
The structure of the movie is very different, and somehow stumbles into its plot rather than revolving around it. Instead of the unfolding mystery we had in Movie 8, we have a Dragonball hunt, the plight of Natade Village and an encounter with a dinosaur before Broli is even brought into the picture. Some people will dismiss this as a distraction that takes away from the main idea, but I'm willing to welcome it as a different concept of how that idea is brought about. Not only does it introduce Broli in a different way, it gives us the necessary chance to learn something about the new characters before throwing them into battle.
And new characters are what this movie is all about. Compared to the utter universe of fan favorites in Movie 8, the cast of characters is fairly reduced in Second Coming, which trades most of the familiar faces we've come to expect for the trio of Goten, Trunks and Videl; all characters making their first appearance in a DBZ movie. Anchoring the cast is our man Gohan, who has been in every movie prior but makes his debut as an adult here and thereby serves the dual function of completing the movie's fresh perspective while giving those of us who fear change someone familiar to hold onto.
Kuririn returns from his vacation in the Middle East.
But as much of a thrill it is to see some fresh faces, the history of the first film is impossible to ignore and creates a very conspicuous and somewhat uncomfortable hole in that typical DBZ mainstays like Vegeta nor Piccolo never show their faces to confront Broli at any time, leaving us to make our own excuse as to why they don't show up. A viewer watching the movie for the first time would probably expect that at least one or the other (Vegeta in particular) would appear, but they just . . . don't. And that will definitely leave some of us confused and/or disappointed.
Omitting some of the more classic characters is a bold, risky move, and from one perspective appears to defy logic. I could understand Piccolo not showing up, but given the impact Broli and Vegeta had on one another in the first movie, it strikes me as particularly odd that the Saiya-jin prince is a no-show here. What's more, I find it strange that Vegeta should be mentioned by Trunks partway through-- which I would take as a definite foreshadowing to his arrival-- and still not appear. I suppose Vegeta was ommited specifically so that we could create excuses as to why, because I can't say I know of any logical reason for it; after all, Goku has the notable handicap of being dead, but that doesn't stop him. Maybe Vegeta fell asleep to the TV.
But while some of us are going to miss the typical characters, I think for the most part that the gamble pays off for this particular movie. With the introduction of characters that are new to the DBZ movie legacy, we have the chance for some new ingredients to be added to an old formula; an idea that in many ways works to the movie's advantage. It would have been easy and very tempting to pile the majority of the characters from Movie 8 and throw them into some sort of rematch, essentially telling the same story all over again with new bruises and a different ending, but instead we're given a fresh, new perspective through other characters and situations. Goten, Trunks, Videl, their search for the Dragonballs and their adventure with the dinosaur are all a fun departure from what for some of the past movies has been strictly a let's-go-fight-the-bad-guy mentality from start to finish, and the fact that Broli is an unfamiliar enemy is something of a treat for us in that we know what he's capable of while our friendly fools don't, which builds on the anticipation of something new. Indeed, the small Saiya-jin and their hapless baby-sitter don't know what the hell is going on when Broli finally does show up, and their ignorance provides for a string of DragonBall-style humor and fun that reminds us of the series roots. ("'Kakarotto'? I've never eaten anything like that . . . I've never eaten anything like that!!")
Fight Club
It was good to see Videl interacting with characters other than Gohan for her first movie appearance, and I think it's even better that she doesn't get along with Trunks and Goten in quite the way I would have expected. I think that their good-natured bickering is far better than the scenario where they would all get along like instant friends, which I think would have been too much since Trunks and Goten are already best friends as it is. Videl is the outsider to the Dragon World who has much to learn and is a welcome human element to the story. Some of Movie's 10's best moments are between these three and their "kid versus adult" interactions with one another, such as Goten's crocodile tears and when Videl is utterly shocked by the children's casual display of power.
If he's looking in your direction, it's already too late.
But even into the battle, comedy plays a role for at least the first half. Some of it is pretty crude, and maybe it should have been used more sparingly. But then it'd be hard for me to choose what deserves omission . . . do we really want to sacrifice the scene where Trunks inadvertently ends up urinating on the Legendary Super Saiya-jin?! Or our stellar view of the dark side of the (Trunks)moon(ing)? Perhaps only the opposite scene where Goten ends up urinating seemed unnecessary, and he didn't even wash his hands, did he? Even so, Trunks's confidence and Goten's naivete and general cuteness made me smile throughout, and though they end up unable to overcome Broli the battle was worth watching if only for those little nuggets of amusement. (One dub line I din't particularly mind: "Shenron! . . . come out and get the bad man!" Hee.)
Eventually the two chibi saiya-jin are overpowered, and then it's time for Gohan to step in. The battle quickly goes downhill from there, at least for Gohan; however, the short fight between Gohan and Broli felt well-paced and nicely choreographed as Gohan's sharp wit and endless determination clashed furiously with Broli's raw power at every turn . . . in particular, the scene where Gohan tries to lure his opponent into the lava felt original and was actually pretty damned smart, even if it didn't work. It's at this point where Kuririn makes a guest appearance, and though (as usual) he isn't much help, he does serve a purpose in saving Gohan. It's a shame he's always relegated to the back-seat these days, though . . .
The battle itself doesn't quite reach the level of pain and excitement that it did in Movie 8, but that's partially because Broli has far less people to fight this time around. The most hardcore fans among us might not be satisfied with this, but Broli does at least present himself in a way that can still be recognized as himself (unlike in Movie 11, but I digress). He isn't the chatterbox he was before, but he does attack in his typical "overkill" mode and becomes fairly menacing by the time he reaches the "Legendary" form, by then boasting the same insane rage that robs him of control and drives him to kill simply because he can. He does torture one or two of the characters at different points in the story, and looks as though he quite enjoys it . . . so at least for parts of the movie, Broli does seem to be in fine form.
Character Assassination
The movie does have its flaws, and of the most notable is the movie's main attraction . . . which can be a very bad thing if you're big on the original, considering that the strength of this sequel in the eyes of many rests with Broli the Legendary Super Saiya-jin himself. While in decent form, this is not the monster we know from before.
That Broli is one bitch of a hair stylist!
Most noticably, Broli has far less to talk about this time around. Where he very nearly didn't shut up in his original debut, in his first sequel Broli is restricted to a few utterances of "Kakarotto" (with the exception of a single line of dialogue towards the end) and is generally very quiet. While I wouldn't necessarily expect that Broli should have a lot to say to people he doesn't know-- in fact, Goten's resemblance to Goku is the only thing that gets him talking at all-- it would still be good to hear some of the angry bloodthirst that made him such a strong presence in Movie 8; as it is here, Broli's lack of a vocabulary lends us so little of his established personality that his attacks must do the talking for him.
Few and far between for the first half of the fight, the attacks unfortunately don't say a whole lot, and are nowhere near as vicious or unrelenting as we remember. Broli starts out strong enough with just a hint of the brutality that's made him famous (smashing the kids' faces against solid rock, for example), but rather than unleash the hell and completely overwhelm Goten and Trunks the way we would expect, he ends up spending more time being attacked as the movie goes on and appears almost to be toyed with by the children's limited abilities at times, managing somehow to resist killing them despite the endless humiliations they put him through.
Perhaps this isn't necessarily so much a fault of Broli as it is his new setting. Given the circumstances, the situation just isn't as desperate as it ought to be: Goten and Trunks are not the serious opponents their fathers were, and it's thanks to these two that an air of lightheartedness lends the first half of the movie a feeling that what's taking place is inconsequential fluff. While fighting to survive, the two kids always keep one step ahead and manage the most unimaginable things through pure dumb luck; mooned, peed on and suckered into their games of hide-and-seek, Broli is turned into a comic device that does provide for a few good laughs but ultimately takes something away from his character, because we know that he can do better than this.
Theoretically, it may also have something to do with the fact that Broli spends the majority of the movie in normal Super Saiya-jin mode rather than jumping to full power right away; something we only caught a glimpse of before. But while it's true that his behavior falls in line somewhat with what little we saw of the blue-haired Super Saiya-jin version in the original movie-- mute, and seemingly unaware-- we all know that it just isn't the Broli we were all hoping to see. If the Legendary Super Saiya-jin was prohibited from using his full power for most of his life, one wonders why he would bother running around not using it for as long as he did in this movie now that his insane mind is without any restrictions. Where there was once a face of unabashed insanity that inspired fear, we instead get to see urine trickling down all over it.
Two words: bring it.
Speaking for the other side of the coin, all of this comedic mayhem is well within character for the young Trunks and Goten. Despite their exceptional powers, the young Saiya-jin aren't hardened fighters; they're little children, and in allowing them to play into that role the movie shows us something reasonably different from the unwaveringly determined, battle-ready characters of its predecessors. These are new and different people that are given a fitting introduction to the movie universe, because having them come off as determined warrior clones right off the bat would be a disservice to the Trunks and Goten we know from the series.
However, towards the end of their struggle it feels almost like a little too much fun, leaving some of us waiting for the action to pick up and bring things to a more serious level. Fortunately, the two kids can't hold out forever. The movie's power-up comes in the form of Gohan, who arrives in time to save his younger brother from certain doom and causes the action to shift into true DBZ mode.
It's here where most of the natural order is restored. Gohan's appearance gives Broli the reason to transform into the Legendary Super Saiya-jin and become the unstoppable force we remember from Movie 8, and he launches into an all-out assault to wipe his adversary into a smear on the pavement. This is the Broli we all came here to see, and on this level he largely fails to disappoint-- for the hardcore Broli fan, this is where your viewing is likely to be centered and the movie validated.
The Legendary Super Sequel?
All in all, the movie has its ups and downs. The main highlight would probably be the ending, which just might rank up there with the best endings of all the DBZ movies, while the low points would really count on the individual-- as many positives as I think Second Coming has, there's probably something in this movie that just about everyone can find not to like, whether it be Broli's apparent loss of tongue, the lack of a favorite character or simply an affinity for the original so big that no sequel could ever come close.
Myself, I enjoyed this movie very much. It's always a fairly unoriginal idea to bring up the "revenge" plot, it's true, but both the setup and execution-- while not entirely flawless-- are different enough from the first that I think the sequel is worth its own existence. The chibi Saiya-jins' first of many movie appearances is fun and held my interest. The fighting doesn't reach that same extreme level as Movie 8, but the Gohan vs. Broli battle is still exciting and something of a reward for anyone who wanted to see a one-on-one bout between the two in the first movie but didn't.
The animation is extremely well done. and quite nearly makes Movie 9 look like pigeon poop by comparison . . . and that's saying a lot; Movie 9 is freakin' beautiful! The characters here are very fluid and articulate, with nary a mistake, and there are moments that just really stand out; the explosion of lava from the earth's crust and the first real punch Gohan lands on Broli's face, among others. The backgrounds really sparkle and every scene just smacks with effort, and it just looks at though they really enjoyed drawing this movie and the characters who live in it.
Second Coming might not be the sequel that it could or should be, depending on how you judge-- I can only really speak for myself, after all-- but it's certainly a decent outing. And maybe there's people who didn't care for the original anyway and like this installment better. It is very different from its predecessor, and in that respect it stands out both as a decent sequel and its own movie.
Not Exactly Filling, But Still A Tasty Second Course
On the plus side: Instead of relying on the formula of its predecessor, a different, more easygoing plot and the fresh faces of Videl, Goten and Trunks lay down the groundwork for something original that is genuinely fun to watch while still maintaining the basic idea of DBZ, achieving a difficult balance. Fun humor that grows from the characters makes for good interaction and great viewing. (Goten and Trunks are a hoot-and-a-half.) Sharp, well-defined and all-around amazing animation has my vote for the best of all thirteen movies, and the strong ending has an impact as one of the most memorable moments in the series' entire history.
On the minus side: Though not completely watered-down, Broli's damaged character spends the majority of the movie too even-tempered compared to last time and is made out to be the butt of a kiddie comedy routine that not everyone will like. The frenetic fighting action DBZ fans expect doesn't really materialize until the last twenty minutes, making the humorous scenes with Trunks and Goten a bit wearing on those hoping to see a life-and-death struggle, and Broli is ultimately dispatched without having recieved any real development.
That'll do it for me.
Images courtesy of and edited by Lemmy Pierce
~Da Lemmy
The NUMBER ONE Goten fan, and a fucking epic one at that.Goten of Japan wrote:Don't go 9... Go 10! (Go-ten. Goten. Get it? DOOD.)