People are getting tired of Goku and here is why

[Zagacious]

I don't mind Goku being the focus since he is the main character. Although what I am liking this arc is it's going back to the original Z era where it's both him and Gohan as the main characters. I think this arc is doing a descent job giving other characters focus. Like last episode was about Hit, sure Goku helped out but he didn't over take the episode.

It seems a lot of people were annoyed by his presence in this last episode though. He definitely was totally unnecessary in that fight, and turned what might have been a small challenge for Hit into just another faceroll. Yeah Goku didn't even fight much, so why was it necessary to have him show up and interrupt the fight, that's the exact kind of forcing him into the episode people are complaining about.

[TBMx]

The Namek arc was terrible in handling Goku. That was where he went from a character to a plot device because of he got benched and then inserted back into the plot and made to seem like the second of Jesus. It's made even worse with how the fight between Freeza and the main cast at that time progresses while Goku isn't around. Vegeta seems on par with Freeza, then he transforms and takes control. Then Piccolo arrives and holds his own against the newly transformed Freeza. So Freeza just transforms again. Then Gohan, in a sudden burst of anger, overwhelms Freeza. And so in response, Freeza transforms again, and this time, transforms into his true Final Form. Then Goku arrives and fights Freeza. Having also conveniently become more than 30 times stronger since the last time he fought. And what's even worse is that it later turns out even in his final form, Freeza is still not fighting anywhere near his full power. So Freeza could have realistically went straight to his final form, powered up to 50%, and just slaughtered everyone before Goku arrived. So everything about Freeza fighting Gohan, Piccolo, Krillin and Vegeta before Goku arrived was basically a glorified stalling static on Toriyama's part so that Goku could arrive on the scene and the "real" fight could begin. It just undercuts everything about Gohan, Piccolo, Krillin and Vegeta fighting Freeza because it really didn't matter. Freeza could have easily killed all of them before Goku came back.

The alternative that Super presents is having Goku in the thick of it at the start without any hint of being challenged. As opposed to the tense struggle for survival with the minor characters in the Namek saga, where it felt like not one of them was safe.

Again, if Toei is going to reveal that Goku gets a new form way before he actually gets it, then what's at stake for him until he gets it? The running time? It's just showing him for the sake of showing him.

You mean everyone being fodder until the plot device saved their asses.

Do you believe that having something at stake is fundamental to interesting fiction?

[TBMx]

The main stake of which universe is going survive is still very much present.

No, it's not. U7 will survive or live on. It would be a franchise ending move otherwise.

[Simere]

It would be a lot easier to have these conversations without trying to frame your opinion as the one held by "everyone" or "most people".

[mfwlegend3]

The main stake of which universe is going survive is still very much present.

Maybe for other universes that aren't 7 or 11.

[Sonofman]

I agree with you. Goku has been in the spot light, but you have to understand he is the MAIN character of the show. That's the honest truth. I wish we'd see more of Vegeta, but even the creator of DB states that he doesn't like Vegeta. I enjoy Vegeta and his overall character a lot. He was once an evil prince and slowly became good. & I'm also quite sick of seeing Goku's stupid moments. He doesn't even treat the tournament of power like it's a serious thing lol. The only time he's been serious is during the Cell saga, but that's when power scaling was decent, and Goku knew he was outclassed by Cell. But now we have Super. Power scaling doesn't matter unless you're either a God of Destruction or an Angel.

[HeroR]

Do you believe that having something at stake is fundamental to interesting fiction?

Depends on what I am watching and reading. I never took the stakes seriously in Dragon Ball no matter how much they kept pushing, 'the situation is dire' because the consequences were never long lasting. Any bad thing was usually fixed by the next story arc with some exceptions like 16. The Future Trunks Saga was the first time in the series where a dire situation had a dark ending that wasn't fixed. Like the Z-Fighters being slaughtered by the Saiyans was sad, but then everyone is back by the end of next the story arc.

[TekTheNinja]

I find it funny how, as fans, some of us put ourselves in this state of mind where we have to have a favorite character that we worship above all else. Like nothing else matters as long as said character gets to shine or gets screentime. And as soon as someone criticizes or pokes fun at that character, even if it's in a joking manner, they must initiate the defense force and prepare to fire back. It's just something I've come to realize over the past few years.

The problem with that is that I'm not looking for relevance for one specific character. I'm looking for relevance for pretty much ANYONE besides Goku or Vegeta and I'm still unhappy.

[Nickolaidas]

Do you believe that having something at stake is fundamental to interesting fiction?

Depends on what I am watching and reading. I never took the stakes seriously in Dragon Ball no matter how much they kept pushing, 'the situation is dire' because the consequences were never long lasting. Any bad thing was usually fixed by the next story arc with some exceptions like 16. The Future Trunks Saga was the first time in the series where a dire situation had a dark ending that wasn't fixed. Like the Z-Fighters being slaughtered by the Saiyans was sad, but then everyone is back by the end of next the story arc.

When I was a 'kid' (about 15-16 years old) I remember being stressed as F*&K about how well Krillin and Yamcha (and Roshi) would perform in the 22nd Martial Arts Tournament. And what would happen with Daimaoh. It was only after the 23rd Tournament that I kinda grew over it (although truth be told, finally gaining access to the net and spoiling myself to the ENTIRE DBZ storyline did play a teenie weenie part a well).

[HeroR]

When I was a 'kid' (about 15-16 years old) I remember being stressed as F*&K about how well Krillin and Yamcha (and Roshi) would perform in the 22nd Martial Arts Tournament. And what would happen with Daimaoh. It was only after the 23rd Tournament that I kinda grew over it (although truth be told, finally gaining access to the net and spoiling myself to the ENTIRE DBZ storyline did play a teenie weenie part a well).

Strang, I was the same age if not younger watching Z, started in middle school, yet I never felt any real tension to the show. Even without spoilers, I never doubted that the good guys would win even when they were being slaughtered. It was just a matter of how. The few times that show really shocked me were Vegeta and Krillin's deaths on Namek and Kid Buu blowing up the Earth. Unfortunately, Goku's sacrifice and Cell returning was spoiled to me. Along with Goku being dead in the Buu Saga, but I didn't know how he came back to life, I just knew he would somewhere near the end of the saga.

I do wished I started with Dragon Ball since the King Piccolo Saga had more real tension in it then all of Dragon Ball outside of the Future Trunks Saga since Shenron got killed along with several other characters and there seems to be no way to reverse the damaged. The Saiyan Saga kind of fall flat with that since the Namekian Dragon Balls were spoiled by Vegeta even before Piccolo died, but I do give credit that the consequences of the Saiyan Saga weren't reverse until the Freeza Saga was all but done.

[Nickolaidas]

When I was a 'kid' (about 15-16 years old) I remember being stressed as F*&K about how well Krillin and Yamcha (and Roshi) would perform in the 22nd Martial Arts Tournament. And what would happen with Daimaoh. It was only after the 23rd Tournament that I kinda grew over it (although truth be told, finally gaining access to the net and spoiling myself to the ENTIRE DBZ storyline did play a teenie weenie part a well).

Strang, I was the same age if not younger watching Z, started in middle school, yet I never felt any real tension to the show. Even without spoilers, I never doubted that the good guys would win even when they were being slaughtered. It was just a matter of how. The few times that show really shocked me were Vegeta and Krillin's deaths on Namek and Kid Buu blowing up the Earth. Unfortunately, Goku's sacrifice and Cell returning was spoiled to me. Along with Goku being dead in the Buu Saga, but I didn't know how he came back to life, I just knew he would somewhere near the end of the saga.

I do wished I started with Dragon Ball since the King Piccolo Saga had more real tension in it then all of Dragon Ball outside of the Future Trunks Saga since Shenron got killed along with several other characters and there seems to be no way to reverse the damaged. The Saiyan Saga kind of fall flat with that since the Namekian Dragon Balls were spoiled by Vegeta even before Piccolo died, but I do give credit that the consequences of the Saiyan Saga weren't reverse until the Freeza Saga was all but done.

But that's the thing: I KNEW Goku would be on top, but I was hungry for the scraps, for any small sign of badassery on Krillin's part, or Yamcha's or Roshi's (and afterwards, Tien's). Those were the guys I was rooting for. The underdogs. Every step of the way.

[PsionicWarrior]

In Z Goku had this "missing hero/savior that everyone waits to save the day because only he can do it", in Super Goku has this "super annoying behavior being present at all times even when not necessary" feeling.

Yes, this is a gross exaggeration, it is not killing the show either, but I guess you get the point.

[namekiansaiyan]

In Z Goku had this "missing hero/savior that everyone waits to save the day because only he can do it", in Super Goku has this "super annoying behavior being present at all times even when not necessary" feeling.

Yes, this is a gross exaggeration, it is not killing the show either, but I guess you get the point.

The show would be a lot better though.

[kemuri07]

In Z Goku had this "missing hero/savior that everyone waits to save the day because only he can do it", in Super Goku has this "super annoying behavior being present at all times even when not necessary" feeling.

Yes, this is a gross exaggeration, it is not killing the show either, but I guess you get the point.

The former at least allowed the other characters to shine (see: Namek Saga)

[Hawk9211]

Are people using dbz as example forgot that goku was plot device and gohan was being set as protagonist for three arcs,was a protagonist in two arcs and most powerful person in last arc?
Are people also forgetting how the race with cool transformation had shafted the guy belonging to magical race capable of making deus ex machina which is premise of show(piccolo) or guys with most creative techniques (humans) or people with limitless stamina(androids) in combat in a show focused on combat?

[PsionicWarrior]

The former at least allowed the other characters to shine (see: Namek Saga)

To be fair Super also puts other characters on the spot, 17 for instance recently was particularly badass, and next EP will be about Roshi. The difference (and a bit of an issue IMO) is that there is NO plot device for it, making it feel EVEN MORE contrived as there is no reason for.

[coola]

It is same for me too, its i dont mind "Know your place, and wait for Goku" approach, it's been like this since beginning, what i mind, is that Goku became such a dork, all he does is "Are you strong? Let's fight, i dont care others wil die, i wanna fight". And if that's Toriyama vision of Goku, he indeed became George Lucas, he have his own vision of characters, but that vision don't really click with me. I still watch Super from time to time, but not for Super version of Goku, he is one of weakest links of this show

[Vegeta-Sama]

I don't mind Goku being the focus since he is the main character. Although what I am liking this arc is it's going back to the original Z era where it's both him and Gohan as the main characters. I think this arc is doing a descent job giving other characters focus. Like last episode was about Hit, sure Goku helped out but he didn't over take the episode.

It seems a lot of people were annoyed by his presence in this last episode though. He definitely was totally unnecessary in that fight, and turned what might have been a small challenge for Hit into just another faceroll. Yeah Goku didn't even fight much, so why was it necessary to have him show up and interrupt the fight, that's the exact kind of forcing him into the episode people are complaining about.

Its his whole behaviour in this Arc which pisses me off and he is constantly the focus which drives me crazy, then we have Grandma Gokus voice...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqJ8eKsHY0M
I wish Vegeta would punch him after Goku act like a spoiled manchild here.

[PsionicWarrior]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqJ8eKsHY0M
I wish Vegeta would punch him after Goku act like a spoiled manchild here.

Actually the one bothering me in here is Vegeta, he refuses to go train because he has to be a good husband, lol, some call that character development I call that lame.

then we have Grandma Gokus voice...

How dare you.

[HeroR]

It is same for me too, its i dont mind "Know your place, and wait for Goku" approach, it's been like this since beginning, what i mind, is that Goku became such a dork, all he does is "Are you strong? Let's fight, i dont care others wil die, i wanna fight". And if that's Toriyama vision of Goku, he indeed became George Lucas, he have his own vision of characters, but that vision don't really click with me. I still watch Super from time to time, but not for Super version of Goku, he is one of weakest links of this show

No it hasn't and you can watched the original Dragon Ball that Dragon Ball was more than 'wait for Goku'.

In Z Goku had this "missing hero/savior that everyone waits to save the day because only he can do it", in Super Goku has this "super annoying behavior being present at all times even when not necessary" feeling.

Yes, this is a gross exaggeration, it is not killing the show either, but I guess you get the point.

This is actually the first story arc that people complained that seeing Goku 'too much'. He was in every episode of the Champa and Future Trunks Saga, yet not one complaint was made about Goku showing up too much. Heck, people didn't even complained about Goku during the recruitment. It seems only in the tournament that people have issue, despite the cast being able to work and even outshine Goku most of the time.

Like I said, it's like the fandom believes that Goku just breathing the same air takes away from the character.