Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[ZombieVito]

Goku is not god level whatsoever unless he is in SSG or SSB. He is still VERY strong now in his base, SS1, SS2, & SS3 levels. His base as well as Vegeta's are both way past Fat Boo in the Boo arc and likely past SSJ3 in the boo arc as well. The fact that he goes to SSG and SSB while still accessing his normal forms should be a clear indication that he's using god ki in those 2 forms otherwise he would never be able to use 1, 2, and 3 anymore.

Without Saiyan beyond God that is sadly untrue. Goku was already god tier just in his regular Super Saiyan form by the end of the Battle of Gods arc.

It is what it is. Better accept now that the power scale is beyond fucked thanks to episode 104.

[JazzMazz]

Goku is not god level whatsoever unless he is in SSG or SSB. He is still VERY strong now in his base, SS1, SS2, & SS3 levels. His base as well as Vegeta's are both way past Fat Boo in the Boo arc and likely past SSJ3 in the boo arc as well. The fact that he goes to SSG and SSB while still accessing his normal forms should be a clear indication that he's using god ki in those 2 forms otherwise he would never be able to use 1, 2, and 3 anymore.

Without Saiyan beyond God that is sadly untrue. Goku was already god tier just in his regular Super Saiyan form by the end of the Battle of Gods arc.

It is what it is. Better accept now that the power scale is beyond fucked thanks to episode 104.

What revelation revealed in #104 so completely screwd over the power-scaling more than it already was.

[Bullza]

Without Saiyan beyond God that is sadly untrue. Goku was already god tier just in his regular Super Saiyan form by the end of the Battle of Gods arc.

That would seemingly be temporarily though. He was that strong as a Super Saiyan whilst the power of Super Saiyan God was still burning inside him and then afterwards in the Resurrection F saga he had to train to reachieved that power on his own.

It's odd how it all works I guess because Goku was far more powerful following the fight with Beerus than before it but still wouldn't be as strong as God.

[JazzMazz]

Without Saiyan beyond God that is sadly untrue. Goku was already god tier just in his regular Super Saiyan form by the end of the Battle of Gods arc.

That would seemingly be temporarily though. He was that strong as a Super Saiyan whilst the power of Super Saiyan God was still burning inside him and then afterwards in the Resurrection F saga he had to train to reachieved that power on his own.

It's odd how it all works I guess because Goku was far more powerful following the fight with Beerus than before it but still wouldn't be as strong as God.

There was nothing to ever suggest that the power-boost was temporary, thats why Vegeta took 6 months of the most intense training he had ever done under Whis to surpass Goku in his base form. Also, it was confirmed this episode that while SSG is definitely the more capable form due to it having a considerable speed advantage, it isn't all that much more powerful than SS Goku usually is.

[dbgtFO]

That would seemingly be temporarily though. He was that strong as a Super Saiyan whilst the power of Super Saiyan God was still burning inside him and then afterwards in the Resurrection F saga he had to train to reachieved that power on his own.

It's odd how it all works I guess because Goku was far more powerful following the fight with Beerus than before it but still wouldn't be as strong as God.

Also, it was confirmed this episode that while SSG is definitely the more capable form due to it having a considerable speed advantage, it isn't all that much more powerful than SS Goku usually is.

No, it wasn't. Stick to the facts, not speculation please.

[JazzMazz]

That would seemingly be temporarily though. He was that strong as a Super Saiyan whilst the power of Super Saiyan God was still burning inside him and then afterwards in the Resurrection F saga he had to train to reachieved that power on his own.

It's odd how it all works I guess because Goku was far more powerful following the fight with Beerus than before it but still wouldn't be as strong as God.

Also, it was confirmed this episode that while SSG is definitely the more capable form due to it having a considerable speed advantage, it isn't all that much more powerful than SS Goku usually is.

No, it wasn't. Stick to the facts, not speculation please.

Those are the facts. Goku didn't feel any weaker after losing SSG when fighting Beerus and their is no reason to think that the power he had in SS during that fight left him afterwards so it's safe to assume that SSG, while only being in the same ball-park power as SS, is mainly just faster.

[dbgtFO]

Those are the facts. Goku didn't feel any weaker after losing SSG when fighting Beerus and their is no reason to think that the power he had in SS during that fight left him afterwards.

Then state that and not that episode 104 confirmed anything about how powerful SS is compared to SSG.

[Doctor.]

If SSG wasn't massively stronger than SS, then Goku would have gone SS2 or SS3.

[Marlowe89]

Super Saiyan God is far above Super Saiyan 1, 2 and 3 in strength and we've categorically demonstrated why that would be through numerous instances in the show on multiple occasions in this thread. When Whis mentioned it was faster, that was only because they were having a battle of speed in the first place -- there's no reason to assume that Super Saiyan God's strength doesn't correlate with its speed.

Again, there is also recent supplementary material for the anime that outright shows (and states) SSG to be a progression, power-wise at least, from SS3. It's the exact same hierarchy as the manga.

[dbgtFO]

Again, there is also recent supplementary material for the anime that outright shows (and states) SSG to be a progression, power-wise at least, from SS3. It's the exact same hierarchy as the manga.

Did that ever get translated?

[JazzMazz]

If SSG wasn't massively stronger than SS, then Goku would have gone SS2 or SS3.

This is the part that's been confusing me as well. The power boost from those transformations would have greatly aided Goku in that fight, so why didn't he transform.

There are a couple of theories I have about why he didn't use those transformations and why his modus operandi is to go SS1 over the other SS forms in real combat situations:
-They weren't as powerful for some reason contrived reason.
-It's easier to fight in SS as it's the form his most familar with.
-Stamina issues making them redundant(he only uses those forms during friendly sparring matches rather than super serious battles).
-SS offers the best mix between power, speed and stamina.

Really, those are all the theories I have. I would say that 2,3 and 4 are the most likely options though this is really just speculation based off out-dated interviews.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

The hierarchy of SS1-3 -> SSG -> SSB is one I definitely don't contest.

Really, all we get into disagreements about around here is just how much of a difference there is between each form.

For example, if we go by my personal interpretation, SSG is only a few times stronger than SS3 because Goku is extremely strong overall. If you go by other interpretations, SS3 Goku is still a fly compared to SSG. However, for the most part, it's agreed upon that SSG will at least be greater than SS3.

[Marlowe89]

Again, there is also recent supplementary material for the anime that outright shows (and states) SSG to be a progression, power-wise at least, from SS3. It's the exact same hierarchy as the manga.

Did that ever get translated?

Yep: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=30157&p=1364442&#p1364448

The blurb makes it clear that each Super Saiyan level progressively powers up from the previous one, and the accompanied image places SSG firmly between SS3 and SSB with arrows between every form.

[JazzMazz]

Again, there is also recent supplementary material for the anime that outright shows (and states) SSG to be a progression, power-wise at least, from SS3. It's the exact same hierarchy as the manga.

Did that ever get translated?

Yep: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=30157&p=1364442&#p1364448

The blurb makes it clear that each Super Saiyan level powers up from the previous one, and the accompanied image places SSG firmly between SS3 and SSB with arrows between every form.

I do agree that SSG should be a power-up over the other SS forms, but what is suggested in that timeline is very different to what is actually being shown and told to us as viewers of the show.

[pacz360]

anyway where dyspo place at?
ssjg couldnt do shit to him and he was strong enough to trade blows with hit until the latter improved

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

anyway where dyspo place at?
ssjg couldnt do shit to him and he was strong enough to trade blows with hit until the latter improved

Like many fights thus far in the Tournament of Power, it wasn't Dyspo's strength that was emphasized, it was incredible speed compared to everyone else.

Exchanging blows and taking hits is no longer an indicator of power levels to the degree that it once was, especially in this tournament.

I place him wherever I want to, since his abilities are what made him dangerous.

[Nero<>Akira]

Goku is not god level whatsoever unless he is in SSG or SSB. He is still VERY strong now in his base, SS1, SS2, & SS3 levels. His base as well as Vegeta's are both way past Fat Boo in the Boo arc and likely past SSJ3 in the boo arc as well. The fact that he goes to SSG and SSB while still accessing his normal forms should be a clear indication that he's using god ki in those 2 forms otherwise he would never be able to use 1, 2, and 3 anymore.

A weaker-than-usual Super Saiyan Gohan, #18, Piccolo, and Good Buu all had (more or less, let's leave Piccolo aside) better feats than Goku's base form in the latest episodes. The contention is highly debatable.

... It's become kind of a leitmotiv in this thread, hasn't it?

A base Goku that's not even using his full strength in base mode and messing around.

[pacz360]

anyway where dyspo place at?
ssjg couldnt do shit to him and he was strong enough to trade blows with hit until the latter improved

Like many fights thus far in the Tournament of Power, it wasn't Dyspo's strength that was emphasized, it was incredible speed compared to everyone else.

Exchanging blows and taking hits is no longer an indicator of power levels to the degree that it once was, especially in this tournament.

I place him wherever I want to, since his abilities are what made him dangerous.

That doesn't change the fact he was able to send hit on his ass and push back Ssjg god
He isn't a monster compared to toppo and jiren but in strength he isnt no slouch
And hit definitely felt his punches

[pacz360]

Goku is not god level whatsoever unless he is in SSG or SSB. He is still VERY strong now in his base, SS1, SS2, & SS3 levels. His base as well as Vegeta's are both way past Fat Boo in the Boo arc and likely past SSJ3 in the boo arc as well. The fact that he goes to SSG and SSB while still accessing his normal forms should be a clear indication that he's using god ki in those 2 forms otherwise he would never be able to use 1, 2, and 3 anymore.

A weaker-than-usual Super Saiyan Gohan, #18, Piccolo, and Good Buu all had (more or less, let's leave Piccolo aside) better feats than Goku's base form in the latest episodes. The contention is highly debatable.

... It's become kind of a leitmotiv in this thread, hasn't it?

A base Goku that's not even using his full strength in base mode and messing around.

Agreed also plus you have to agree base goku has way too many feats that's puts him above his buu saga counter part

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

anyway where dyspo place at?
ssjg couldnt do shit to him and he was strong enough to trade blows with hit until the latter improved

Like many fights thus far in the Tournament of Power, it wasn't Dyspo's strength that was emphasized, it was incredible speed compared to everyone else.

Exchanging blows and taking hits is no longer an indicator of power levels to the degree that it once was, especially in this tournament.

I place him wherever I want to, since his abilities are what made him dangerous.

That doesn't change the fact he was able to send hit on his ass and push back Ssjg god
He isn't a monster compared to toppo and jiren but in strength he isnt no slouch
And hit definitely felt his punches

Because his speed was so great that both of them couldn't brace themselves.

This isn't Z anymore where you just take a shot and no-sell it. This is a martial arts tournament with martial arts dynamics, which means that getting hit AT ALL is gonna send you reeling unless you've blocked, dodged, or braced yourself.

Remember Obuni and Gohan? Ultimate Gohan let himself take hits to gauge how to read Obuni's movements, and the episode had Whis remind us that doing this was a double-edged sword because taking hits means you take damage.

And we have earlier examples too, like Krillin using his Solar Flare x100 to blind Gohan and get in enough hits to send him off their fighting area, Krillin faking out Goku by making him think he was gonna use a Solar Flare and getting in some free blasts, and many examples in the Tournament of Power where fighters are getting hit left and right by a wide assortment of attacks.