People are getting tired of Goku and here is why

[Hawk9211]

I don't mind Goku being the focus since he is the main character. Although what I am liking this arc is it's going back to the original Z era where it's both him and Gohan as the main characters. I think this arc is doing a descent job giving other characters focus. Like last episode was about Hit, sure Goku helped out but he didn't over take the episode.

It seems a lot of people were annoyed by his presence in this last episode though. He definitely was totally unnecessary in that fight, and turned what might have been a small challenge for Hit into just another faceroll. Yeah Goku didn't even fight much, so why was it necessary to have him show up and interrupt the fight, that's the exact kind of forcing him into the episode people are complaining about.

Its his whole behaviour in this Arc which pisses me off and he is constantly the focus which drives me crazy, then we have Grandma Gokus voice...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqJ8eKsHY0M
I wish Vegeta would punch him after Goku act like a spoiled manchild here.

Stop dissing nowaza and goku is not the center of attention.He shows up unnecessarily but is he stealing spotlight?the answer would be no.As another poster pointed there are a lot of character that became fan favourite during the tournament like android 17 against U2

Do you believe that having something at stake is fundamental to interesting fiction?

Depends on what I am watching and reading. I never took the stakes seriously in Dragon Ball no matter how much they kept pushing, 'the situation is dire' because the consequences were never long lasting. Any bad thing was usually fixed by the next story arc with some exceptions like 16. The Future Trunks Saga was the first time in the series where a dire situation had a dark ending that wasn't fixed. Like the Z-Fighters being slaughtered by the Saiyans was sad, but then everyone is back by the end of next the story arc.

Same here people were moarning krillins death and I was thinking a about mini adventure of collecting dragon balls.

It is same for me too, its i dont mind "Know your place, and wait for Goku" approach, it's been like this since beginning, what i mind, is that Goku became such a dork, all he does is "Are you strong? Let's fight, i dont care others wil die, i wanna fight". And if that's Toriyama vision of Goku, he indeed became George Lucas, he have his own vision of characters, but that vision don't really click with me. I still watch Super from time to time, but not for Super version of Goku, he is one of weakest links of this show

No it hasn't and you can watched the original Dragon Ball that Dragon Ball was more than 'wait for Goku'.

In Z Goku had this "missing hero/savior that everyone waits to save the day because only he can do it", in Super Goku has this "super annoying behavior being present at all times even when not necessary" feeling.

Yes, this is a gross exaggeration, it is not killing the show either, but I guess you get the point.

This is actually the first story arc that people complained that seeing Goku 'too much'. He was in every episode of the Champa and Future Trunks Saga, yet not one complaint was made about Goku showing up too much. Heck, people didn't even complained about Goku during the recruitment. It seems only in the tournament that people have issue, despite the cast being able to work and even outshine Goku most of the time.

Like I said, it's like the fandom believes that Goku just breathing the same air takes away from the character.

Actually the reason is that in everyone's(or lot of people) subconscious is that all these characters after top that are not saiyan or goku and vegeta will be getting irrelevant just like in dbz.
After all in buu saga,the only people that played a significant role leaving saiyans were piccolo,kaioshin,old kai and kibito kai.Piccolo had a mentor role,kibito and shin were fangirling about how awesome the saiyans were and old kai was a plot device.

[PsionicWarrior]

This is actually the first story arc that people complained that seeing Goku 'too much'. He was in every episode of the Champa and Future Trunks Saga, yet not one complaint was made about Goku showing up too much.

Indeed, during these arcs people were complaining about Goku acting stupid.
There is improvement.

[coola]

It is same for me too, its i dont mind "Know your place, and wait for Goku" approach, it's been like this since beginning, what i mind, is that Goku became such a dork, all he does is "Are you strong? Let's fight, i dont care others wil die, i wanna fight". And if that's Toriyama vision of Goku, he indeed became George Lucas, he have his own vision of characters, but that vision don't really click with me. I still watch Super from time to time, but not for Super version of Goku, he is one of weakest links of this show

No it hasn't and you can watched the original Dragon Ball that Dragon Ball was more than 'wait for Goku'.

I did, it aired here before Z did
Not Goku characters had trouble even beating subbosses most of the time:
- Kuririn lost to General Blue, lost to Dracula Man, won against Chaozu, was killed by Tambourine.
- Yamcha never get past 1st round of TB, beat Invisible Man with help of Blooma, got defeated by Mummy Man
- Tenshinhan was beaten up by Drum.

[Nickolaidas]

I did, it aired here before Z did
Not Goku characters had trouble even beating subbosses most of the time:
- Kuririn lost to General Blue, lost to Dracula Man, won against Chaozu, was killed by Tambourine.
- Yamcha never get past 1st round of TB, beat Invisible Man with help of Blooma, got defeated by Mummy Man
- Tenshinhan was beaten up by Drum.

So basically, one minor win or tie for every 3-4 defeats. Awe-some.

[HeroR]

I did, it aired here before Z did
Not Goku characters had trouble even beating subbosses most of the time:
- Kuririn lost to General Blue, lost to Dracula Man, won against Chaozu, was killed by Tambourine.
- Yamcha never get past 1st round of TB, beat Invisible Man with help of Blooma, got defeated by Mummy Man
- Tenshinhan was beaten up by Drum.

The first story arc of Dragon Ball had Yamcha, Bulma, Puar, and even Oolong moved the story without Goku. Heck, the final 'villain' of the first story arc was Goku.

The 21st tournament devoted a lot of development towards Krillin and Roshi. Even secondary fodder like Nam got a story. Goku didn't really become important until the final round and Roshi was just as important as Goku.

Red Ribbon Army did mostly resolved around Goku, but they didn't sit around and wait for Goku. Blue nearly killing Krillin was the only real time the 'wait for Goku' was played, and even then they weren't waiting for Goku. They didn't even mentioned Goku saving them until he arrived. The cast even tried to pull a rescue operation for Goku. He didn't need it, but it was still there.

23rd tournament was much the same as the 21st with Krillin, Roshi, and especially Tien getting major spotlight. Goku was honestly secondary in the arc until the final round.

King Piccolo Saga split the team in two. Roshi and the others were doing their own things and had their own plans, while Goku was doing something else. Even then, Goku was assisted by Yajirobe. No one sat around waiting for Goku since they thought he was dead. They were doing stuff themselves and in the end, they were depending on Tien to save them.

The final tournament of Dragon Ball was the most Goku focused and even then you have stuff like Krillin actually surprising Piccolo and Yamcha getting a hit on god.

Overall, although the secondary cast didn't beat many sub-bosses, they still were an active part of the story and got a lot of focus. Compared that to Z where the cast was literally just fodder there to hold the line until Goku arrived outside of the Namek Saga until the Ginyu Force arrived.

[Vegeta-Sama]

I want this Goku back, not this clown we have in Super.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75gUJ_4SyY0

[Ki Breaker]

I want this Goku back, not this clown we have in Super.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75gUJ_4SyY0

I have to say, no matter how Toriyama may have thought he wrote Goku, his representation came out very different in the original from what we have in our hands right now..
Goku's heroic attributes were overblown before, but his non heroic nature in overblown now..
There needs to be a middle ground here, which super hasn't quite reached yet..

[HeroR]

I want this Goku back, not this clown we have in Super.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75gUJ_4SyY0

So, basically this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rl4e9RczXfw

I want this Goku back, not this clown we have in Super.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75gUJ_4SyY0

I don't really see that much of a difference.

Especially since the show pointed out that Goku was OOC after he went Super Saiyan.

[Kanassa]

I want this Goku back, not this clown we have in Super.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75gUJ_4SyY0

I don't really see that much of a difference.

[Nickolaidas]

The first story arc of Dragon Ball had Yamcha, Bulma, Puar, and even Oolong moved the story without Goku. Heck, the final 'villain' of the first story arc was Goku.

The 21st tournament devoted a lot of development towards Krillin and Roshi. Even secondary fodder like Nam got a story. Goku didn't really become important until the final round and Roshi was just as important as Goku.

Red Ribbon Army did mostly resolved around Goku, but they didn't sit around and wait for Goku. Blue nearly killing Krillin was the only real time the 'wait for Goku' was played, and even then they weren't waiting for Goku. They didn't even mentioned Goku saving them until he arrived. The cast even tried to pull a rescue operation for Goku. He didn't need it, but it was still there.

23rd tournament was much the same as the 21st with Krillin, Roshi, and especially Tien getting major spotlight. Goku was honestly secondary in the arc until the final round.

King Piccolo Saga split the team in two. Roshi and the others were doing their own things and had their own plans, while Goku was doing something else. Even then, Goku was assisted by Yajirobe. No one sat around waiting for Goku since they thought he was dead. They were doing stuff themselves and in the end, they were depending on Tien to save them.

The final tournament of Dragon Ball was the most Goku focused and even then you have stuff like Krillin actually surprising Piccolo and Yamcha getting a hit on god.

Overall, although the secondary cast didn't beat many sub-bosses, they still were an active part of the story and got a lot of focus. Compared that to Z where the cast was literally just fodder there to hold the line until Goku arrived outside of the Namek Saga until the Ginyu Force arrived.

In the first story arc of Dragon Ball (which is basically a parody of a fairy tale), I think Bulma was as much a protagonist as Goku was (in some ways, even more important). After that, she becomes an extra.

The Red Ribbon saga is dedicated completely to Goku. The part with Uranai Baba is a total Goku wank-fest.

22nd Budokai is indeed an arc where other characters get to shine a LOT (I think Yamcha's and Krillin's best moments are in that arc - Tien's definitely is).

Daimaoh's saga is 50-50, until in the end where it becomes a Goku-centric again.

23rd Budokai (the training, the tournament and the filler after) is a Goku wank-fest once more (with a few minor nods to other characters) but it does put a good deal of emphasis on Piccolo as well (which is understandable, considering he's the big bad there).

In my opinion, the 22nd Budokai was the best arc because it was serious enough to not feel like comedy, but at the same time not cliche enough to give the whole 'the world will be destroyed' crap every single arc had afterwards. And it had the best moments for some of my favourite characters.

[HeroR]

In the first story arc of Dragon Ball (which is basically a parody of a fairy tale), I think Bulma was as much a protagonist as Goku was (in some ways, even more important). After that, she becomes an extra.

The Red Ribbon saga is dedicated completely to Goku. The part with Uranai Baba is a total Goku wank-fest.

22nd Budokai is indeed an arc where other characters get to shine a LOT (I think Yamcha's and Krillin's best moments are in that arc - Tien's definitely is).

Daimaoh's saga is 50-50, until in the end where it becomes a Goku-centric again.

23rd Budokai (the training, the tournament and the filler after) is a Goku wank-fest once more (with a few minor nods to other characters) but it does put a good deal of emphasis on Piccolo as well (which is understandable, considering he's the big bad there).

In my opinion, the 22nd Budokai was the best arc because it was serious enough to not feel like comedy, but at the same time not cliche enough to give the whole 'the world will be destroyed' crap every single arc had afterwards. And it had the best moments for some of my favourite characters.

She was definitely a co-protagonist in the first story arc. She also wasn't a complete extra since she moved the plot several times in the original Dragon Ball.

The Red Ribbon Saga also had Android 8 who helped Goku a lot in Muscle Tower and Goku couldn't have gotten one of the Dragon Balls without Bulma driving the submarine.

Even Goku center, Tien managed to save Goku's life. Granted, he's also the reason Goku got crippled, but you know.

That filler had Goku getting his tail whipped by Mr. Popo and gave Goku some of his most humiliating moments in the series. He literally got beating by a doll of himself. It was only the 23rd tournament itself that had a major focused on Goku, and even then Krillin actually stunned Piccolo and Yamcha got a hit on god, something we haven't seen anyone do up to that point.

I personally loved the 21st tournament more, but my favorite arc is the King Piccolo Saga.

[Noah]

This is actually the first story arc that people complained that seeing Goku 'too much'. He was in every episode of the Champa and Future Trunks Saga, yet not one complaint was made about Goku showing up too much.

Have you ever heard about oversaturation? If Goku was in every episode in the past arcs like you said, then it's plausible to think people became tired of him.

[Nickolaidas]

The Red Ribbon Saga also had Android 8 who helped Goku a lot in Muscle Tower and Goku couldn't have gotten one of the Dragon Balls without Bulma driving the submarine.

See, this is the kind of mentality that honestly, I don't get. I am not being an ass, I'm honestly wondering.

Bulma drove a submarine and immediately becomes important to the arc? Well, a police officer helped Goku find Bulma in West City - maybe he's an important character too. Or maybe Oloong is an important character because Beerus chose him for Rock Paper Scissors.

Dragon Ball is a series (at least after the first 30 episodes of its inception) about martial artists becoming so strong they end up being super heroes and doing badass feats which defy physics, logic and reality. The more you do that stuff, the more important you are to the series.

Android 8 is not an important character - nor did he do anything important. His role in the arc was literally to refuse to fight Goku. That's it. That's all there is to it. You can make a small talk about the hypocrisy of the show when they present a character condemning war and violence when war and violence is the solution to every single problem its main cast faces, but that's it. He's not important. He never was. But if you think that he played some kind of pivotal role in the arc, then I understand why you also think that the rest of the cast is useful and does many useful things to aid Goku. I just don't think so, is all.

[HeroR]

The Red Ribbon Saga also had Android 8 who helped Goku a lot in Muscle Tower and Goku couldn't have gotten one of the Dragon Balls without Bulma driving the submarine.

See, this is the kind of mentality that honestly, I don't get. I am not being an ass, I'm honestly wondering.

Bulma drove a submarine and immediately becomes important to the arc? Well, a police officer helped Goku find Bulma in West City - maybe he's an important character too. Or maybe Oloong is an important character because Beerus chose him for Rock Paper Scissors.

Dragon Ball is a series (at least after the first 30 episodes of its inception) about martial artists becoming so strong they end up being super heroes and doing badass feats which defy physics, logic and reality. The more you do that stuff, the more important you are to the series.

Android 8 is not an important character - nor did he do anything important. His role in the arc was literally to refuse to fight Goku. That's it. That's all there is to it. You can make a small talk about the hypocrisy of the show when they present a character condemning war and violence when war and violence is the solution to every single problem its main cast faces, but that's it. He's not important. He never was. But if you think that he played some kind of pivotal role in the arc, then I understand why you also think that the rest of the cast is useful and does many useful things to aid Goku. I just don't think so, is all.

They were still important to the plot and Android 8 was the one who took out White. They weren't just fodder no matter how small the role is.

[Zagacious]

This is actually the first story arc that people complained that seeing Goku 'too much'. He was in every episode of the Champa and Future Trunks Saga, yet not one complaint was made about Goku showing up too much.

Have you ever heard about oversaturation? If Goku was in every episode in the past arcs like you said, then it's plausible to think people became tired of him.

I'd personally rather see Goku commenting on other peoples' fights than seeing him take out people who have no chance against him. That way he can be included without ruining the suspense or integrity of the matches. He can still study peoples' fighting styles that way without making that fighter effectively useless. How many people has he taken out that could have been a more interesting fight if they were against someone just a little less overpowered, like Gohan or 17 even.

[Simere]

How many people has he taken out that could have been a more interesting fight if they were against someone just a little less overpowered, like Gohan or 17 even.

Not many, hardly any really.

And I don't think I would really feel the suspense if Goku stood there commenting during a battle royal.

[Jigurashi]

This is actually the first story arc that people complained that seeing Goku 'too much'. He was in every episode of the Champa and Future Trunks Saga, yet not one complaint was made about Goku showing up too much.

Have you ever heard about oversaturation? If Goku was in every episode in the past arcs like you said, then it's plausible to think people became tired of him.

I'd personally rather see Goku commenting on other peoples' fights than seeing him take out people who have no chance against him. That way he can be included without ruining the suspense or integrity of the matches. He can still study peoples' fighting styles that way without making that fighter effectively useless. How many people has he taken out that could have been a more interesting fight if they were against someone just a little less overpowered, like Gohan or 17 even.

That doesn't really work since Gohan and 17 aren't so much weaker than Goku to the point where they couldn't replicate what he did against just about everyone he's fought in the tournament so far.

[PsionicWarrior]

And I don't think I would really feel the suspense if Goku stood there commenting during a battle royal.

Agreed and would like to point out Beerus and Champa being cheerleaders is seriously starting to grind my gears.

[Zagacious]

Have you ever heard about oversaturation? If Goku was in every episode in the past arcs like you said, then it's plausible to think people became tired of him.

I'd personally rather see Goku commenting on other peoples' fights than seeing him take out people who have no chance against him. That way he can be included without ruining the suspense or integrity of the matches. He can still study peoples' fighting styles that way without making that fighter effectively useless. How many people has he taken out that could have been a more interesting fight if they were against someone just a little less overpowered, like Gohan or 17 even.

That doesn't really work since Gohan and 17 aren't so much weaker than Goku to the point where they couldn't replicate what he did against just about everyone he's fought in the tournament so far.

As supposed to the suspense of him effortlessly defeating everyone? Okay

That's exactly the point, the people that Goku defeated were a lot weaker than him, what's enjoyable about seeing him KO people who have no chance? Android 17 and Gohan wouldn't just one shot everybody once they took it seriously that's what would make it a better fight.

[Jigurashi]

I'd personally rather see Goku commenting on other peoples' fights than seeing him take out people who have no chance against him. That way he can be included without ruining the suspense or integrity of the matches. He can still study peoples' fighting styles that way without making that fighter effectively useless. How many people has he taken out that could have been a more interesting fight if they were against someone just a little less overpowered, like Gohan or 17 even.

That doesn't really work since Gohan and 17 aren't so much weaker than Goku to the point where they couldn't replicate what he did against just about everyone he's fought in the tournament so far.

As supposed to the suspense of him effortlessly defeating everyone? Okay

That's exactly the point, the people that Goku defeated were a lot weaker than him, what's enjoyable about seeing him KO people who have no chance? Android 17 and Gohan wouldn't just one shot everybody once they took it seriously that's what would make it a better fight.

But they would that's the problem, Gohan and 17 would one-shot the people Goku beat if they fought seriously. Neither of the two are far off from SSB Goku, who could one-shot everyone he beat so far, meaning Gohan and 17 would do the same unless they held back like Goku did, so how is that anymore exciting? The same thing literally applies to Gohan and 17. I'm not sure why you think it'd be more exciting to see Gohan or 17 one-shot and am even more confused why you think it'd be more of a fight if Gohan or 17 were serious.