The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[Steven Bloodriver]

1) Full Power Super Saiyan 3 Adult GT Goku (Black Star Dragon Ball Saga) vs. Majuub (Black Star Dragon Ball Saga).

2) Strengthened Super Saiyan 2 GT Gohan (Baby Saga) vs. Full Power Super Saiyan 3 Majin Baby Goten (Baby Saga).

3) Super Saiyan God-Absorbed Super Saiyan GT Goten (Super 17 Saga) vs. Super 17 (Cell Absorbed) (Super 17 Saga).

4) Potential Unleashed GT Pan (Shadow Dragon Saga) vs. Super Saiyan Broly (Second Coming) and Majin Spopovich.

5) Full Power Super Saiyan 4 GT Vegeta (Black Star Dragon Ball Saga) vs. Golden Great Ape Baby Gohan (Baby Saga).

6) Full Power Super Saiyan 3 GT Trunks (Super 17 Saga) vs. Supervillain Mode Ledgic (Black Star Dragon Ball Saga).

7) Strengthened Super Saiyan 2 GT Bulla (Shadow Dragon Saga) vs. Tuffle Super Saiyan Baby Vegeta (Baby Saga).

[dragonball0900]

Kogu (one of Bojack's Henchmen) vs Semi Perfect Cell

Zangya vs Cell Jr

Base Bojack vs SSJ Goku (Cell Games Arc)

[Zamasu55]

- Strongest character Kunshi can beat?

I seriously have no idea.
He was no match for both Hit and SsjB Goku, that's all we know.

[Berserker1921]

1) Full Power Super Saiyan 3 Adult GT Goku (Black Star Dragon Ball Saga) vs. Majuub (Black Star Dragon Ball Saga).

2) Strengthened Super Saiyan 2 GT Gohan (Baby Saga) vs. Full Power Super Saiyan 3 Majin Baby Goten (Baby Saga).

3) Super Saiyan God-Absorbed Super Saiyan GT Goten (Super 17 Saga) vs. Super 17 (Cell Absorbed) (Super 17 Saga).

4) Potential Unleashed GT Pan (Shadow Dragon Saga) vs. Super Saiyan Broly (Second Coming) and Majin Spopovich.

5) Full Power Super Saiyan 4 GT Vegeta (Black Star Dragon Ball Saga) vs. Golden Great Ape Baby Gohan (Baby Saga).

6) Full Power Super Saiyan 3 GT Trunks (Super 17 Saga) vs. Supervillain Mode Ledgic (Black Star Dragon Ball Saga).

7) Strengthened Super Saiyan 2 GT Bulla (Shadow Dragon Saga) vs. Tuffle Super Saiyan Baby Vegeta (Baby Saga).

1. Goku wins. I still believe adult goku was stronger than his kid body who struggles to control his ssj3 form.

2. I think Goten wins. Yes; Gohan trains more. But the baby boost is a good boost as well as being ssj3. Goten finishes him off unless he doesn't milk it.

3. I know many think ssj4 is greater than God. But I don't think so. I think a god boost is massive. So I have personally 15-20 thousand times boost. He kills super 17 cell absorbed unless he doesn't shoot blast at him and make him stronger.

4. Pan easily slaughters Broly. She was able to briefly keep up with kid goku who was at his base ssj3 level. If she is unleashed she is easily Vegito Level. I see Broly in this movie slightly stronger than ssj2 kid Gohan. However would get wrecked by vegeta or goku at ssj2 in the buu saga.

5. Vegeta easily. Vegeta is a very dedicated person. If goku wasn't the main character, Vegeta would easily be the most powerful person out of the saiyans. He was able to obtain god mode without the ritual. I imagine as ssj4 he masters it quickly. Also Gohan would be stupid and sluggish in that form.

6. Trunks slaughters him. At ssj1 I have trunks easily around ssj3 goku in the buu saga. As a ssj3 he wrecks ledgic.

7. Bulla loses bad. She can have all the potential in the world. But in db Lore; if you don't train or have some magical unlock you can't defeat anyone. Vegeta easily beats her.

[Berserker1921]

Broly LSSJ (from the second movie) vs Caulifla SSJ2? who wins and why?

I think Broly might be stronger because he faced Gohan SSJ2 but didn't take any damage at all (only the lava did some damage but he was still able to outclass Gohan with ease)

Caulifla I have her honestly at low tier ssj3 or fat buu level. I don't think she is God level but she beat Broly.

[Berserker1921]

Piccolo (ToP) vs Super Perfect Cell
Manga Hit vs Boo arc Vegetto

Piccolo wins. I have him around low ssj3 level now. He slaughters cell.

Hit was weaker then ssj God goku and blue vegeta. I'd say hit would win still cause he has time skip. Vegito wouldn't know how to defend from it and is super cocky. Hit wins.

[BrolyKale]

Broly LSSJ (from the second movie) vs Caulifla SSJ2? who wins and why?

I think Broly might be stronger because he faced Gohan SSJ2 but didn't take any damage at all (only the lava did some damage but he was still able to outclass Gohan with ease)

Caulifla I have her honestly at low tier ssj3 or fat buu level. I don't think she is God level but she beat Broly.

Broly can also be at fat buu/majin vegeta level because as I said Gohan's SSJ2 isn't weak in the movie compared to the Manga (already showed a proof), so it really depends on how strong Gohan is in the movie. And tbh Caulifla doesn't seem as strong as a SSJ3, not yet.

[Steven Bloodriver]

Kogu (one of Bojack's Henchmen) vs Semi Perfect Cell

Zangya vs Cell Jr

Base Bojack vs SSJ Goku (Cell Games Arc)

1) The only Galaxy Soldier brutally killed by Full Power Super Saiyan Future Trunks would have effortlessly murdered Semi-Perfect Cell even without having the need to transform into his Full Power Hera-Jinn state.

2) The winner is Cell Junior. As even not fighting at his absolute full power, he could kill Zangya in one hit.

3) Full Power Super Saiyan Goku would have a slight advantage over Bojack, but would win from his vastly superior fighting skills being far too much for Bojack to handle for more than a few minutes into their duel.

[LowRyder2005]

Piccolo (ToP) vs Super Perfect Cell
Manga Hit vs Boo arc Vegetto

1. It's more difficult to say than what others may think, to me. I'm pretty convinced Piccolo's perceveid feats are more of a product of Gohan's rustiness than anything; the Namekian apparently hit a plateau between the Cell Game and the Buu arc and it doesn't look like the writers have any intention of coming up with a serious excuse to upgrade him, enough for one of them to state he still thinks he's below Frost.
To surmise, I have Piccolo getting around the fully powered Super Saiyan from the Cell Game through many years of solid training: he can tango with the Perfect Cell who fought Goku and maybe have a slight advantage, but anything more than that? He bites more than he can chew. Super Perfect Cell wins.

2. This is easier, in comparison. If Hit goes full power, he should be able to easily beat the juggernaut of the Buu saga. If Vegito finds the means to survive for a full minute against a SSG type of opponent with Time Skip (i.e. teleporting himself away, if allowed), then Hit is helpless, but it might be rather... complicated, to say the least.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Broly LSSJ (from the second movie) vs Caulifla SSJ2? who wins and why?

I think Broly might be stronger because he faced Gohan SSJ2 but didn't take any damage at all (only the lava did some damage but he was still able to outclass Gohan with ease)

Though i'm not keeping up with the ToP, Caulifla should take this pretty easy as M10 Broly should be on SPC level, while any character from ToP ought to be at the very least Fusion Tier to be relevant.

Piccolo (ToP) vs Super Perfect Cell
Manga Hit vs Boo arc Vegetto

Piccolo slaughs him as he keeps up with Frost back on the U6 Arc, who's >> SSjin God Goku via scaling.

Hit one shots him. When Goku turned SSjin God on BoGs he said something like "I never imaginated such power", implying SSjin God >>>>>> Vegetto, Potara Gokhan and anything Z has.

[LowRyder2005]

Piccolo slaughs him as he keeps up with Frost back on the U6 Arc, who's >> SSjin God Goku via scaling.

I feel the need to point out that If this thesis ever held some credibility in the past, no, today we already know both Frost and Piccolo can't really be stronger than Super Saiyan God Goku.
Later episodes clarify in pretty much unambiguous terms that SS Gohan is already stronger than base Goku through scaling, since he forces Goku to transform into Super Saiyan, and that he's yet overall weaker than his Buu arc counterpart.

Mr. Buu and #18 also recently outperformed base Goku himself in some way or another: #18's lifting strength is apparently far, far above Goku's, while Mr. Buu is way, way stronger than Basil, who's equal-ish to an untransformed Goku or at least strong enough not to get k.o'ed without Vegeta's presence to even the odds.

General consensus is that Goku's base has been quietly retconned or that the writers simply didn't know where to place him in the power hierarchy until recently. Since in Toriyama's original material and the manga the base forms should not be that strong to begin with, there's quite the decent chance that situations like base Vegeta clowning SS3 Gotenks would have never been envisioned by Toriyama or Toyotaro.

[Doctor.]

I don't see why all of you think manga Hit is so strong when he was barely keeping up with Super Saiyan Goku and got trashed by Super Saiyan God. Then, when he used his "full power," we didn't see him fight SSG or SSB to be able to assert with confidence how he compares.

[ekrolo2]

I don't see why all of you think manga Hit is so strong when he was barely keeping up with Super Saiyan Goku and got trashed by Super Saiyan God. Then, when he used his "full power," we didn't see him fight SSG or SSB to be able to assert with confidence how he compares.

That depends on where you put SSGod & Blue in relation to the Boo arc people, all signs point to that stuff being above SS Vegetto so saying he can kick the ass of anyone from the Boo arc doesn't seem like a stretch.

[LowRyder2005]

I don't see why all of you think manga Hit is so strong when he was barely keeping up with Super Saiyan Goku and got trashed by Super Saiyan God. Then, when he used his "full power," we didn't see him fight SSG or SSB to be able to assert with confidence how he compares.

Bear in mind that everyone's in utter shock when Hit shows his true power (Goku included), also: Piccolo's amazement in particular signals that Hit's now showing off a gigantic ki ("W-What ki!").

Most importantly, even Beerus looks worried and he should be able to read well enough the ki of both -- in short, Beerus at that point thinks Goku could lose or that he might be at disadvantage.
Everything basically points towards the idea Hit would match or even surpass God's power, and that he forced Goku to go Blue to ensure himself a victory.

The better question, like ekrolo2 said, would be "can we say with absolute certainty that God's above Super Saiyan Vegito in the manga?", I guess. The tidbit about using Fusion to face Beerus, technically, is omitted. Nevertheless, I have my reserves Toyotaro or Toriyama would go against such a staple of BOG, that promotes God and Beerus as far above anything else. It would feel somewhat foreign in respect to the entire narration.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Piccolo slaughs him as he keeps up with Frost back on the U6 Arc, who's >> SSjin God Goku via scaling.

I feel the need to point out that If this thesis ever held some credibility in the past, no, today we already know both Frost and Piccolo can't really be stronger than Super Saiyan God Goku.
Later episodes clarify in pretty much unambiguous terms that SS Gohan is already stronger than base Goku through scaling, since he forces Goku to transform into Super Saiyan, and that he's yet overall weaker than his Buu arc counterpart.

Mr. Buu and #18 also recently outperformed base Goku himself in some way or another: #18's lifting strength is apparently far, far above Goku's, while Mr. Buu is way, way stronger than Basil, who's equal-ish to an untransformed Goku or at least strong enough not to get k.o'ed without Vegeta's presence to even the odds.

General consensus is that Goku's base has been quietly retconned or that the writers simply didn't know where to place him in the power hierarchy until recently. Since in Toriyama's original material and the manga the base forms should not be that strong to begin with, there's quite the decent chance that situations like base Vegeta clowning SS3 Gotenks would have never been envisioned by Toriyama or Toyotaro.

Yeah, you must be right as i don't keep up with the anime enough to understand the powerscaling. I still think Piccolo should one shot, since anyone semi-relevant to the plot should be Buu or Fusion Arc tier.

I don't see why all of you think manga Hit is so strong when he was barely keeping up with Super Saiyan Goku and got trashed by Super Saiyan God. Then, when he used his "full power," we didn't see him fight SSG or SSB to be able to assert with confidence how he compares.

Hit was fighting evenly with SSjin Goku, and Goku needed to turn SSjin Blue to get the lead over Full Power Hit. He's defintely weaker than his Anime self, but he still a monster.

[SuperDragoon]

Piccolo slaughs him as he keeps up with Frost back on the U6 Arc, who's >> SSjin God Goku via scaling.

I feel the need to point out that If this thesis ever held some credibility in the past, no, today we already know both Frost and Piccolo can't really be stronger than Super Saiyan God Goku.
Later episodes clarify in pretty much unambiguous terms that SS Gohan is already stronger than base Goku through scaling, since he forces Goku to transform into Super Saiyan, and that he's yet overall weaker than his Buu arc counterpart.

Mr. Buu and #18 also recently outperformed base Goku himself in some way or another: #18's lifting strength is apparently far, far above Goku's, while Mr. Buu is way, way stronger than Basil, who's equal-ish to an untransformed Goku or at least strong enough not to get k.o'ed without Vegeta's presence to even the odds.

General consensus is that Goku's base has been quietly retconned or that the writers simply didn't know where to place him in the power hierarchy until recently. Since in Toriyama's original material and the manga the base forms should not be that strong to begin with, there's quite the decent chance that situations like base Vegeta clowning SS3 Gotenks would have never been envisioned by Toriyama or Toyotaro.

It's pretty much flat out stated the Goku absorbed the god form's power into his super saiyan or base after his fight with Beerus. Either way ends up with Frost and Piccolo not being super far away from SSG Goku, as little sense as it makes. 18 never showed herself to be superior to him as all she showed was lifting strength while Goku couldn't fight back. Goku fought a far stronger version of Good Buu then Basil did and he did fine. I don't see the need to ignore Copy Vegeta destroying SSJ3 Gotenks when enough implies it.

[LowRyder2005]

Piccolo slaughs him as he keeps up with Frost back on the U6 Arc, who's >> SSjin God Goku via scaling.

I feel the need to point out that If this thesis ever held some credibility in the past, no, today we already know both Frost and Piccolo can't really be stronger than Super Saiyan God Goku.
Later episodes clarify in pretty much unambiguous terms that SS Gohan is already stronger than base Goku through scaling, since he forces Goku to transform into Super Saiyan, and that he's yet overall weaker than his Buu arc counterpart.

Mr. Buu and #18 also recently outperformed base Goku himself in some way or another: #18's lifting strength is apparently far, far above Goku's, while Mr. Buu is way, way stronger than Basil, who's equal-ish to an untransformed Goku or at least strong enough not to get k.o'ed without Vegeta's presence to even the odds.

General consensus is that Goku's base has been quietly retconned or that the writers simply didn't know where to place him in the power hierarchy until recently. Since in Toriyama's original material and the manga the base forms should not be that strong to begin with, there's quite the decent chance that situations like base Vegeta clowning SS3 Gotenks would have never been envisioned by Toriyama or Toyotaro.

It's pretty much flat out stated the Goku absorbed the god form's power into his super saiyan or base after his fight with Beerus. Either way ends up with Frost and Piccolo not being super far away from SSG Goku, as little sense as it makes. 18 never showed herself to be superior to him as all she showed was lifting strength while Goku couldn't fight back. Goku fought a far stronger version of Good Buu then Basil did and he did fine. I don't see the need to ignore Copy Vegeta destroying SSJ3 Gotenks when enough implies it.

Quite simply, all the available evidence at our disposal implies it should be outdated information that has little to no bearing on the current framework -- at least until possible future retractions or confirmations. Goku already uses Super Saiyan God, which is labeled as a form in-between SS3 and SSB per officially related material, thereby disproving the notion SSG is intended to be equal to SS [for reference: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=30157&p=1364442&#p1364448]. This is already enough to assess that a retcon took place for most (or in less elegant terms, they're simply ignoring what they previously implied), but when you venture deeper in the implications are even more befitting of a pre-BOG theme.

The proverbial nail in the coffin is still that Goku uses Super Saiyan against a Gohan who's weaker than his Buu arc self; I deem basically senseless to argue that Goku (SSG or some sizable percentage of it) powered up to Super Saiyan (SSG * 50) and then powered down to a level below his base form (1/100 of SSG). He would've already needed to *vastly* suppress himself in base to match Gohan, not powering up and powering down much more than needed. It's an act that wouldn't really have any precedent in the entirity of the series, and be pretty darn counterintuitive from an authorial perspective.
The other examples usually brought up by the opposing party are basically all spars, mock or gag fights, in which all the involved characters have usually little reason to seriously hurt each other and/or to go all out from the start, are not convincing at all and most importantly do not really address Goku's behavior against Gohan -- which can't honestly be justified in any other way unless by theorizing uses his forms and adjusts his ki without rhyme or reason. What I personally find strikingly ironic is that such a stance would also pave the way for arbitrary statements like "Super Saiyan Goku in this fight/episode is much weaker than Goku's base form full strength" every time Super Saiyan 1/2/3 Goku steps in, which look like an overly-tortuous version of the two-base (many-base?) theory in which Goku's strength can be anything we want up until some hundreds of times stronger than SS3 Gotenks. Equally unstated notions for a comparatively more complicated, or a tad short of unintelligible, outlook on the series.

Leaving that aside and on less contrived threads, the question about how couldn't the "Super Saiyan God" Goku shrug Tupper off his shoulders while #18 can lift the guy effortlessly would remain pretty valid. On that note, I don't really the point of splitting hairs over stuff like "lifting strength and not strength in general". I doubt anyone would write a scene like that, leaving such a fundamental difference unsaid and expect the spectator to reach a similar conclusion. The implication is merely that "at face value" #18 is stronger than Goku, and Goku needed to be saved by #18 because he was in peril (lest he transformed, which he would've rather avoided because of the stamina loss). Something like #18 lifting vastly more than, say, SS3 Goku with a mere infinitesimal fraction of his power also sounds, well, quite odd to me.

I'll also stress again that base Goku has proven himself unable to one-shot normal Basil in a serious fight in which he risked an elimination (which should go without saying, if he wields the power of a SSG or of someone like Ultimate Gohan in base); even 1 on 1 Basil was entirely capable of fighting him prolongedly and/or forcing him on the defensive [1:04, again for reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIaSyfyXaLQ], and they make it look like Vegeta was needed for him to overcome the three on one.
In turn, the empowered form of Basil, which could've been anywhere from 1.5, 2, or even several tens of times stronger was still "much weaker" than Buu per Buu's own words. There's simply no way they are writing his current scenes with his strength is supposed to be that high. Excluding minor hiccups in which Goku momentarily performs well against a most likely suppressed or a non-serious opponent, the current Goku is probably inferior to an #18 who - at best - did some training with Krillin after ROF or so.

[BrolyKale]

Though i'm not keeping up with the ToP, Caulifla should take this pretty easy as M10 Broly should be on SPC level, while any character from ToP ought to be at the very least Fusion Tier to be relevant.

Are you sure about what you say... so Krillin, Tien, Roshi and Piccolo are fusion level in the ToP? that doesn't make any sense...

[Polyphase Avatron]

Ribrianne vs. Buu (current)

[LowRyder2005]

Ribrianne vs. Buu (current)

Slim Buu vs. Ribrianne, in other words? There's pretty much room enough to put both of them anywhere on a given chart: one is basically featless, the other scales off #17, who also could have not been using his 100% and whose original placement is debatable in the first place.

A good approach might be: "how would they write it"? I could definitely imagine a hypothetical fight in which they have Mr. Buu as somewhat faster and a little stronger; with his abilities, regeneration, etc. ultimately being too diversified a power-set for Ribrianne to handle. For some reason, I'm kind of certain they wouldn't really make one one-shot material for the other, though.