Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[SuperDragoon]

I'd say Roshi is on Radditz level now, maybe Nappa at most. People are being bizarrely generous with the power scaling here, Roshi technically did not fight a single fighter until Ganos. He beat a weak parrot with one wave, he froze the robot guy, the first girl ran off the stage, and the second was trapped by the technique.

Ganos for all we know could be on Nappa's level.

No way is Roshi that weak. Roshi at his max was already shown to give Base Goku a somewhat decent fight. Ganos in his base nuisanced Goku and his powered up state was more powerful and Roshi beat him, abeit almost dying in tbe prcess. I dont see why current Roshi couldn't beat Nappa. Scaling off Goku he could probably be Buu saga levels of power. (I know that I'm going to get hate for saying that but I don't care)

[precita]

The difference is when Goku fights all these characters he's never fighting fully. We saw it in this very episode, when that blue guy had Goku trapped in Super Saiyan form he couldn't escape. Then he instantly went Super Saiyan Blue and blew him away in an instant. Goku literally handicaps himself in every fight in Super and only powers up in the last minute.

Roshi isn't Freeza, or even 17. There's no logical way he could make that large gap of power in a couple months or whenever he started training again.

I think Toei also purposely wrote Roshi's wins in such a way that he's NOT beating people by strength, but by using techniques or other abilities to get them knocked out. From what we see U4 is one of the weakest universe in terms of fighters too, so I don't imagine they're very strong.

[JazzMazz]

Ganoss isn't that strong, I know a lot people are bothered by him surviving Goku's base, but he only really did so for 10 seconds, it's not really enough to put him on Base Goku's level.

Though Ganoss isn't that strong, I would still say his leaps and bounds ahead of Roshi, who even commented that Ganoss was stronger and faster than he was.
Roshi only really beat Ganoss after wearing him down down enough so that a full powered Kamehameha would be able to knock Ganoss out of the ring(To be fair to Ganoss, a full powered Kamehameha could destroy the moon, so I'm not surprised it was able to knock him off the ring).

This episode really doesn't place Roshi anywhere on the power-scale, all we do know is that he was stronger than he was against the Freeza soldiers.

[precita]

I think Ganos power seemed comparable to Nappa.

[Marlowe89]

I think Toei also purposely wrote Roshi's wins in such a way that he's NOT beating people by strength, but by using techniques or other abilities to get them knocked out.

That was true for most of the episode, but at the end Roshi declared himself to have surpassed his limits and then just straight-up overpowered Ganos with a Kamehameha. I don't know if that particular situation was similar to what LowRyder2005 suggested in that Ganos could have worn himself out over the match or if Roshi actually did become that much stronger, but there was clearly a brief strength advantage there regardless.

On the topic of the episode, I'm especially interested in Maji Kayo now that his own showings have been better than any of the other Universe 3 fighters so far. Looks to me like he's possibly one of that team's top contenders.

[LowRyder2005]

I think Toei also purposely wrote Roshi's wins in such a way that he's NOT beating people by strength, but by using techniques or other abilities to get them knocked out.

That was true for most of the episode, but at the end Roshi declared himself to have surpassed his limits and then just straight-up overpowered Ganos with a Kamehameha. I don't know if that particular situation was similar to what LowRyder2005 suggested in that Ganos could have worn himself out over the match or if Roshi actually did become that much stronger, but there was clearly a brief strength advantage there regardless.

On the topic of the episode, I'm especially interested in Maji Kayo now that his own showings have been better than any of the other Universe 3 fighters so far. Looks to me like he's possibly one of that team's top contenders.

I was just speculating that Ganos' gimmick might have been basically similar to Bergamo's, I don't know if this makes my post clearer overall. I'll clarify I'm just going off Herms' notes and the raw episode (https://twitter.com/Herms98/status/901600179475800064 ; https://twitter.com/Herms98/status/901600346618728448) -- I have yet to double-check with the subs and I'm not 100% sure if raising his strength indefinitely is really supposed to be Ganos' shtick. With that being said, I also don't see how Ganos could be a potential threat to Goku and Vegeta otherwise, at least when his regular power is inferior to Roshi's.

Maji=Kayo (this is the way it's supposed to be spelled, apparently!) was definitely one of the highlights of the episode for me, also; other than a suprisingly cool design compared to most his peers, restraining SS Goku definitely looked like no small feat.

[Animelover5487]

I like that Dragonball is starting to change it's format though and becoming more shonen-like in that the fights aren't linear anymore. Power is no longer the main/only factor, abilities are now being use, battle tactics are now being used and fights aren't as predictable anymore.

[Zeno's button]

As someone pointed out, gravity being different for each fighter might help the weaker ones. For all we know Ganos home planet's gravity could be hundreds of times heavier than Earth's, so he's basically fighting Roshi with a heavy burden on his back.

[Xeogran]

How strong do you think Maji=Kayo is so far? He avoided Goku's punches and restrained SSJ with ease but got broken by his really angry SSB state.

I'd say this puts him fairly high on the totem pole. Versatile abilities + fairly strong strength. Put him against the non-SSB tiers and he'll most likely wreck.

[Bullza]

How strong do you think Master Roshi is compared to characters from Z?

By all rights he should be weaker than Krillin because he's supposed to be the strongest human. Going by Toshio's opinion? Master Roshi should also be weaker than Tien but because of the magic placed on him he was in that one episode able to fight against Base Goku for a bit.

Krillin was weaker than Android 18. Base Goku at start of Super was weaker than Frieza.

Would we place the likes of Roshi, Krillin and Tien in the realm of the lesser Frieza forms?

Ganos is a bit odd. He was said to be stronger than Roshi at least until the end.

[ssbgoku]

How strong do you think Master Roshi is compared to characters from Z?

By all rights he should be weaker than Krillin because he's supposed to be the strongest human. Going by Toshio's opinion? Master Roshi should also be weaker than Tien but because of the magic placed on him he was in that one episode able to fight against Base Goku for a bit.

Krillin was weaker than Android 18. Base Goku at start of Super was weaker than Frieza.

Would we place the likes of Roshi, Krillin and Tien in the realm of the lesser Frieza forms?

Ganos is a bit odd. He was said to be stronger than Roshi at least until the end.

Below Namek pre zenkai Goku for sure(the First time he arrived on Namek). This badass performing so well against Jeece and Burter... This was the goku at his best, the most epic and mysterious warrior...

To be honest he could be in range of Namek saga warriors, below Bardock and King Vegeta for sure, just close to 10 000 at the most, and at least Raditz level.
anything else it is just pure fan service and will be tossed to side when top will end. It is one of the reasons why dragon ball z > dragon ball ~ dragon ball super for me(not dbs hater), just how I feel. Lack of tension + too much breaking of power scaling. However DBS imroved db with life slice scenes and better characterization(not always) + of course bringing back abilities and showing they make impact.

[SuperDragoon]

How strong do you think Master Roshi is compared to characters from Z?

By all rights he should be weaker than Krillin because he's supposed to be the strongest human. Going by Toshio's opinion? Master Roshi should also be weaker than Tien but because of the magic placed on him he was in that one episode able to fight against Base Goku for a bit.

Krillin was weaker than Android 18. Base Goku at start of Super was weaker than Frieza.

Would we place the likes of Roshi, Krillin and Tien in the realm of the lesser Frieza forms?

Ganos is a bit odd. He was said to be stronger than Roshi at least until the end.

Well for one Goku wasn't weaker than Freeza but besides that...
All 3 of the humans at minimum could beat 100% Freeza by scaling Krillin to 18, and that's assuming she didn't get stronger. Going off the imaginary fight Krillin had with Basil they could all be around cell jr level. And if you believe current Base Goku>God Goku then.... they would crush all of Z. But since so don't believe that currently I still think they, and Ganos by association are around the Buu Saga super saiyans.

[Doctor.]

I'd say Roshi is on Radditz level now, maybe Nappa at most. People are being bizarrely generous with the power scaling here, Roshi technically did not fight a single fighter until Ganos. He beat a weak parrot with one wave, he froze the robot guy, the first girl ran off the stage, and the second was trapped by the technique.

Ganos for all we know could be on Nappa's level.

Didn't Roshi break the stage? Or he took out Kawai who broke the stage? Ganos definitely broke the stage.

He should be stronger than Boo arc base Gohan at the very least.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

As we see, not every fighter is on an equal level. Even though Roshi is stronger than ever, he still admits that his teammates are much stronger than him, but they're also more straightforward and ill-equipped to handle "out-of-context problems", as is another term I've learned from my time at Spacebattles.

Even Ganos was straight-up admitted to be faster and stronger, but Roshi handled him thanks to his experience in reading fights and adapting accordingly.

[wolflonnie]

In order to become a problem for Goku & co., Ganos shouldn't be as weak as Namek ark lower tier foes (Zarbon & Dodoria, Ginew Force, etc.). Or else, even if his power keeps increasing, he still wouldn't reach SSB heights.
So, I think he's comparable to Namek Frieza, at the very least.
My guess is that the earthlings are in the general initial SSJ tier, given that Krillin can at least spare with 18. So maybe Roshi is around initial SSJ Goku/50 to 100% Namek Frieza, which would be acceptable.

[Doctor.]

Again, anyone that's breaking the stage has to be, at the very least, stronger than Boo arc Gohan post-Z Sword training. We've got a minimum strength level for most (if not all) fighters in the tournament. How strong you consider Boo arc base Gohan is up to everyone's personal opinion, but I believe he was still weaker than Freeza.

[Marlowe89]

Again, anyone that's breaking the stage has to be, at the very least, stronger than Boo arc Gohan post-Z Sword training. We've got a minimum strength level for most (if not all) fighters in the tournament. How strong you consider Boo arc base Gohan is up to everyone's personal opinion, but I believe he was still weaker than Freeza.

Yeah, that's part of why I have a lot of these characters and the powered-up Roshi at least roughly at low-end Namek levels (the other part is, well, my own interpretation of the power-scaling). It does make sense, considering that if this tournament had started 30-some years ago you'd have Frieza and his goons as the competitors instead.

[Bullza]

Again, anyone that's breaking the stage has to be, at the very least, stronger than Boo arc Gohan post-Z Sword training.

Why's that?

[Doctor.]

Again, anyone that's breaking the stage has to be, at the very least, stronger than Boo arc Gohan post-Z Sword training.

Why's that?

Gohan couldn't break Katchin. These fighters can break an even stronger Katchin.

[LightBing]

Again, anyone that's breaking the stage has to be, at the very least, stronger than Boo arc Gohan post-Z Sword training.

Why's that?

Gohan couldn't break Katchin. These fighters can break an even stronger Katchin.

The Z-Sword couldn't cut the Katchin. We don't know how durable it actually is against brute force and ki attacks.