Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Doctor.]

Why's that?

Gohan couldn't break Katchin. These fighters can break an even stronger Katchin.

The Z-Sword couldn't cut the Katchin. We don't know how durable it actually is against brute force and ki attacks.

Trunks' sword was just a normal sword and it could cut Freeza just fine. It's not the Z-Sword's fault, it's Gohan's.

[LightBing]

Trunks' sword was just a normal sword and it could cut Freeza just fine. It's not the Z-Sword's fault, it's Gohan's.

There's not enough scenes with weapons to see a trend. However the Z-Sword scene was all about how it was so sharp it could even cut the hardest material in the Universe. There's no attention given to the user power, Goku would surely make a mention, I find the most reasonable explanation to be that the sword sucked.

[Doctor.]

Trunks' sword was just a normal sword and it could cut Freeza just fine. It's not the Z-Sword's fault, it's Gohan's.

There's not enough scenes with weapons to see a trend. However the Z-Sword scene was all about how it was so sharp it could even cut the hardest material in the Universe. There's no attention given to the user power, Goku would surely make a mention, I find the most reasonable explanation to be that the sword sucked.

Swords are swords. It's the user that channels their Ki to make them strong. I'm sure Gohan knew that much.

[Bullza]

Yeah I don't know if that's good enough evidence, the sword was probably just weak. I couldn't break a piece of plywood wood with a paper sword for example.

[Animelover5487]

Again, anyone that's breaking the stage has to be, at the very least, stronger than Boo arc Gohan post-Z Sword training. We've got a minimum strength level for most (if not all) fighters in the tournament. How strong you consider Boo arc base Gohan is up to everyone's personal opinion, but I believe he was still weaker than Freeza.

Wait, didn't Caway break/damage the stadium? The same girl who Roshi overpowered with two fingers? Lol. I can't see her being over 100% Freeza.

[Doctor.]

Yeah I don't know if that's good enough evidence, the sword was probably just weak. I couldn't break a piece of plywood wood with a paper sword for example.

And again, a sword is still a sword. Trunks' could cut Freeza, it's all about channeling your Ki.

Wait, didn't Caway break/damage the stadium? The same girl who Roshi overpowered with two fingers? Lol. I can't see her being over 100% Freeza.

Well I don't consider base Gohan stronger than 100% Freeza or anywhere near, but if you do, then yeah, I suppose she would be stronger.

[ShinTenshin]

Actually, Roshi has done a pretty good job. He beat 3 fighters of Universe 4 alone ! When Krilin do 2 assists and just 1 win with trick's... The same Krilin that need to be saved from defeat by Gohan and after by C18.... Why the TOP give the impression than Krilin is the weakest fighter of U 7 ???

If we follow Toshio Twitter, he say than Krilin was the strongest earthling in the past but the time is flowing ! Add the fact he say just after than Tenshinhan wasn't human. So i'm inclined to believe Roshi is now the strongest pure earthling !
If the script following by Toei is from Toriyama, Roshi seems really overall better than Krilin.

[dragon boss z]

How strong do you think Master Roshi is compared to characters from Z?

By all rights he should be weaker than Krillin because he's supposed to be the strongest human. Going by Toshio's opinion? Master Roshi should also be weaker than Tien but because of the magic placed on him he was in that one episode able to fight against Base Goku for a bit.

Krillin was weaker than Android 18. Base Goku at start of Super was weaker than Frieza.

Would we place the likes of Roshi, Krillin and Tien in the realm of the lesser Frieza forms?

Ganos is a bit odd. He was said to be stronger than Roshi at least until the end.

Well for one Goku wasn't weaker than Freeza but besides that...
All 3 of the humans at minimum could beat 100% Freeza by scaling Krillin to 18, and that's assuming she didn't get stronger. Going off the imaginary fight Krillin had with Basil they could all be around cell jr level. And if you believe current Base Goku>God Goku then.... they would crush all of Z. But since so don't believe that currently I still think they, and Ganos by association are around the Buu Saga super saiyans.

1. Base Goku was weaker than Frieza. This was stated by Beerus in both Super and the BoG movie. In Super even after going ssj Beerus said Frieza was the best Goku could do, so no you can't just say Beerus sensed suppressed base Goku. Saying he is stronger than Frieza while in base is just going against the writers statements and being in denial.

2. None of the humans are even close to 100% Frieza. Even if you scale off 18 Krillin at best would be around final form Frieza. 18 isn't even that much stronger than Frieza in the first place, I have her around 2x stronger. And in Super power gaps don't mean as much as they used to.

3. Base Goku isn't anywhere near god Goku. This is pretty much confirmed since Goku just went SSG, and Whis even confirmed Goku's ssj form isn't as good as god.

[ChiefWamsutta]

This is my update of everyone in the tournament so far (I did not include Rabanra, Jimeze, and Maji=Kayo because we have not seen enough of them to be able to rank where they stand. Jilcol is the only person on the list who I am not sure of where he stands because Jimeze eliminated him, and I cannot gauge how strong Jimeze is yet).

[spoiler]Above SSBlue Tier
Jiren (U11)
SSBlue Kaioken Goku (U7)
Toppo (U11)

SSBlue Tier
SSBlue Goku (U7)
SSBlue Vegeta (U7)
True Golden Frieza (U7)
Hit (U6)
Dyspo (U11)

SSGod Tier
SSGod Goku (U7)
Final Form Frieza (U7)

SS3 Tier
SSBerserker Kale (U6)
Ultimate Gohan (U7)
Android 17 (U7)
Brianne de Chateau/Ribrianne (U2)
SS3 Goku (U7)
Nink (U4)

SS2 Tier
Final Form Frost (U6)
Piccolo (U7)
SS2 Goku (U7)
SS2 Vegeta (U7)
SS2 Caulifla (U6)

SS1 Tier
Kahseral (U11)
SSBerserker Controlled Kale (U6)
SS1 Goku (U7)
SS1 Vegeta (U7)
SS1 Caulifla (U6)
SS1 Cabba (U6)
Obuni (U10)
Rubalt (U10)
Magetta (U6)
Bergamo (U9)
Lavender (U9)
Basil (U9)
Jilcol (U10)
Kettol (U11)
Zoiray (U11)
Napapa (U10)
Chappil (U9)
Comfrey (U9)
Hyssop (U9)
Oregano (U9)
Android 18 (U7)
Tupper (U11)
Cocotte (U11)

Base Tier
Base Goku (U7)
Base Vegeta (U7)
Base Gohan (U7)
Base Caulifla (U6)
Base Cabba (U6)
Su Roas/Rozie (U2)
Sanka Ku/Kakunsa (U2)
Vikal (U2)
Botamo (U6)
Krillin (U7)
Tien (U7)
Vuon (U11)
Murichim (U10)
Jirasen (U10)
Majora (U4)
Shosa (U4)
Methiop (U10)
Nigrisshi (U3)
Narirama (U3)
Murisam (U10)
Master Roshi (U7)
Avian Ganos (U4)
Base Kale (U6)
Dercori (U4)
Base Ganos (U4)
Hop (U9)
Kunsi (U11)
Caway (U4)
Sorrel (U9)
Roselle (U9)
Jium (U10)
The Preecho (U3)
Lilibeu (U10)[/spoiler]

[The_Destroyer]

This is my update of everyone in the tournament so far (I did not include Rabanra, Jimeze, and Maji=Kayo because we have not seen enough of them to be able to rank where they stand. Jilcol is the only person on the list who I am not sure of where he stands because Jimeze eliminated him, and I cannot gauge how strong Jimeze is yet).

[spoiler]Above SSBlue Tier
Jiren (U11)
SSBlue Kaioken Goku (U7)
Toppo (U11)

SSBlue Tier
SSBlue Goku (U7)
SSBlue Vegeta (U7)
True Golden Frieza (U7)
Hit (U6)
Dyspo (U11)

SSGod Tier
SSGod Goku (U7)
Final Form Frieza (U7)

SS3 Tier
SSBerserker Kale (U6)
Ultimate Gohan (U7)
Android 17 (U7)
Brianne de Chateau/Ribrianne (U2)
SS3 Goku (U7)
Nink (U4)

SS2 Tier
Final Form Frost (U6)
Piccolo (U7)
SS2 Goku (U7)
SS2 Vegeta (U7)
SS2 Caulifla (U6)

SS1 Tier
Kahseral (U11)
SSBerserker Controlled Kale (U6)
SS1 Goku (U7)
SS1 Vegeta (U7)
SS1 Caulifla (U6)
SS1 Cabba (U6)
Obuni (U10)
Rubalt (U10)
Magetta (U6)
Bergamo (U9)
Lavender (U9)
Basil (U9)
Jilcol (U10)
Kettol (U11)
Zoiray (U11)
Napapa (U10)
Chappil (U9)
Comfrey (U9)
Hyssop (U9)
Oregano (U9)
Android 18 (U7)
Tupper (U11)
Cocotte (U11)

Base Tier
Base Goku (U7)
Base Vegeta (U7)
Base Gohan (U7)
Base Caulifla (U6)
Base Cabba (U6)
Su Roas/Rozie (U2)
Sanka Ku/Kakunsa (U2)
Vikal (U2)
Botamo (U6)
Krillin (U7)
Tien (U7)
Vuon (U11)
Murichim (U10)
Jirasen (U10)
Majora (U4)
Shosa (U4)
Methiop (U10)
Nigrisshi (U3)
Narirama (U3)
Murisam (U10)
Master Roshi (U7)
Avian Ganos (U4)
Base Kale (U6)
Dercori (U4)
Base Ganos (U4)
Hop (U9)
Kunsi (U11)
Caway (U4)
Sorrel (U9)
Roselle (U9)
Jium (U10)
The Preecho (U3)
Lilibeu (U10)[/spoiler]

Shouldn't Obuni be higher? The fact that he can hurt ultimate gohan should at least put him at ss2. And why is Nink ss3 tier?

[ZombieVito]

This is my update of everyone in the tournament so far (I did not include Rabanra, Jimeze, and Maji=Kayo because we have not seen enough of them to be able to rank where they stand. Jilcol is the only person on the list who I am not sure of where he stands because Jimeze eliminated him, and I cannot gauge how strong Jimeze is yet).

[spoiler]Above SSBlue Tier
Jiren (U11)
SSBlue Kaioken Goku (U7)
Toppo (U11)

SSBlue Tier
SSBlue Goku (U7)
SSBlue Vegeta (U7)
True Golden Frieza (U7)
Hit (U6)
Dyspo (U11)

SSGod Tier
SSGod Goku (U7)
Final Form Frieza (U7)

SS3 Tier
SSBerserker Kale (U6)
Ultimate Gohan (U7)
Android 17 (U7)
Brianne de Chateau/Ribrianne (U2)
SS3 Goku (U7)
Nink (U4)

SS2 Tier
Final Form Frost (U6)
Piccolo (U7)
SS2 Goku (U7)
SS2 Vegeta (U7)
SS2 Caulifla (U6)

SS1 Tier
Kahseral (U11)
SSBerserker Controlled Kale (U6)
SS1 Goku (U7)
SS1 Vegeta (U7)
SS1 Caulifla (U6)
SS1 Cabba (U6)
Obuni (U10)
Rubalt (U10)
Magetta (U6)
Bergamo (U9)
Lavender (U9)
Basil (U9)
Jilcol (U10)
Kettol (U11)
Zoiray (U11)
Napapa (U10)
Chappil (U9)
Comfrey (U9)
Hyssop (U9)
Oregano (U9)
Android 18 (U7)
Tupper (U11)
Cocotte (U11)

Base Tier
Base Goku (U7)
Base Vegeta (U7)
Base Gohan (U7)
Base Caulifla (U6)
Base Cabba (U6)
Su Roas/Rozie (U2)
Sanka Ku/Kakunsa (U2)
Vikal (U2)
Botamo (U6)
Krillin (U7)
Tien (U7)
Vuon (U11)
Murichim (U10)
Jirasen (U10)
Majora (U4)
Shosa (U4)
Methiop (U10)
Nigrisshi (U3)
Narirama (U3)
Murisam (U10)
Master Roshi (U7)
Avian Ganos (U4)
Base Kale (U6)
Dercori (U4)
Base Ganos (U4)
Hop (U9)
Kunsi (U11)
Caway (U4)
Sorrel (U9)
Roselle (U9)
Jium (U10)
The Preecho (U3)
Lilibeu (U10)[/spoiler]

How is Final Form Freeza SSG tier? He should be under base Goku.

[Almighty Majin]

This is my update of everyone in the tournament so far (I did not include Rabanra, Jimeze, and Maji=Kayo because we have not seen enough of them to be able to rank where they stand. Jilcol is the only person on the list who I am not sure of where he stands because Jimeze eliminated him, and I cannot gauge how strong Jimeze is yet).

[spoiler]Above SSBlue Tier
Jiren (U11)
SSBlue Kaioken Goku (U7)
Toppo (U11)

SSBlue Tier
SSBlue Goku (U7)
SSBlue Vegeta (U7)
True Golden Frieza (U7)
Hit (U6)
Dyspo (U11)

SSGod Tier
SSGod Goku (U7)
Final Form Frieza (U7)

SS3 Tier
SSBerserker Kale (U6)
Ultimate Gohan (U7)
Android 17 (U7)
Brianne de Chateau/Ribrianne (U2)
SS3 Goku (U7)
Nink (U4)

SS2 Tier
Final Form Frost (U6)
Piccolo (U7)
SS2 Goku (U7)
SS2 Vegeta (U7)
SS2 Caulifla (U6)

SS1 Tier
Kahseral (U11)
SSBerserker Controlled Kale (U6)
SS1 Goku (U7)
SS1 Vegeta (U7)
SS1 Caulifla (U6)
SS1 Cabba (U6)
Obuni (U10)
Rubalt (U10)
Magetta (U6)
Bergamo (U9)
Lavender (U9)
Basil (U9)
Jilcol (U10)
Kettol (U11)
Zoiray (U11)
Napapa (U10)
Chappil (U9)
Comfrey (U9)
Hyssop (U9)
Oregano (U9)
Android 18 (U7)
Tupper (U11)
Cocotte (U11)

Base Tier
Base Goku (U7)
Base Vegeta (U7)
Base Gohan (U7)
Base Caulifla (U6)
Base Cabba (U6)
Su Roas/Rozie (U2)
Sanka Ku/Kakunsa (U2)
Vikal (U2)
Botamo (U6)
Krillin (U7)
Tien (U7)
Vuon (U11)
Murichim (U10)
Jirasen (U10)
Majora (U4)
Shosa (U4)
Methiop (U10)
Nigrisshi (U3)
Narirama (U3)
Murisam (U10)
Master Roshi (U7)
Avian Ganos (U4)
Base Kale (U6)
Dercori (U4)
Base Ganos (U4)
Hop (U9)
Kunsi (U11)
Caway (U4)
Sorrel (U9)
Roselle (U9)
Jium (U10)
The Preecho (U3)
Lilibeu (U10)[/spoiler]

Freeza should be base tier and Nink is SSJ tier. I also don't think there's any point in having the SSJ3 tier at all except for maybe having Ribrianne and Obuni there. I personally have Gohan, 17 and Kale all in Blue tier. Ribrianne and Obuni are either SSJ3 or SSJG tier. Why is Kunsi so low?

[ChiefWamsutta]

Shouldn't Obuni be higher? The fact that he can hurt ultimate gohan should at least put him at ss2. And why is Nink ss3 tier?

Part of the reason I put Obuni in SS1 tier is because he was able to beat Base Gohan kinda easily. Each time Ultimate Gohan was getting attacked was because he let Obuni in, so as to counter his technique.

Nink was stronger than Base form, but Goku needed to go SSBlue to break free of his grasp. Goku used SSBlue against SSBerserker Kale, but it was in the SS3 range of power ("A little more power."). I don't think Goku has used SSBlue at any significant power other than during the Dyspo fight. He phased from red to blue in order to inflict some pain. Each other time he used blue was for lower than normal SSBlue levels (e.g. Trio De Dangers final attack, SSBerserker Kale, Nink, breaking free of Maji=Kayo).

How is Final Form Freeza SSG tier? He should be under base Goku.

I actually don't believe that they retconned Frieza's power. He was intended to be SSGod level during RoF, and we don't have any evidence to suggest he is not at that level anymore. One could argue that Base Goku is a measuring stick, but I would disagree. Frieza has trashed every single opponent in the arena that he has faced. Not, just beat, but trashed.

Freeza should be base tier and Nink is SSJ tier. I also don't think there's any point in having the SSJ3 tier at all except for maybe having Ribrianne and Obuni there. I personally have Gohan, 17 and Kale all in Blue tier. Ribrianne and Obuni are either SSJ3 or SSJG tier. Why is Kunsi so low?

I, personally, am not moving Frieza until we have better confirmation as to where he belongs. His Final Form was intended to be at SSGod level, and how easily he is trashing opponents is evidence enough for me. Things may change though.

SS1 tier is too low for Nink. Goku has been very good about differentiating when to use SS1 and when to use SSBlue. He has not been good at differentiating the other forms. Nink IS hard to place, but considering I have Ultimate Gohan, SSBerserker Kale, and #17 all at SS3 level, I think he fits there. Goku was holding back against #17 and used only a little more power than SS2 against SSBerserker Kale. Gohan I have grouped in with them, which puts it around SS3 tier.

I don't recall the episode well, but I am pretty sure the only reason Obuni could hit Ultimate Gohan was because he let him get in close as a counter. I highly doubt he is SS3 or SSGod tier.

Kunsi was hard for me. Roshi was able to dodge his threads with ease, but he was able to hold back Hit. I perceived it as Hit was so focused on Dyspo as an opponent because of his light speed, and the fact taht he could come around from any directions, that Hit was just caught off guard by Kunsi. It has also been emphasized narrative-wise that Toppo, Jiren, Dyspo, and Kahseral are the strongest of the Pride Troopers, so I kept Kunsi with the other remaining six.

[Bullza]

And again, a sword is still a sword. Trunks' could cut Freeza, it's all about channeling your Ki.

Why would he be channeling his Ki into his Sword to destroy a metal cube? How would the Z Sword be different from any regular Sword then?

The point of the scene was showing that the Z Sword was pretty fragile despite all the hype, not that Gohan was too weak too smash the block.

[Almighty Majin]

Freeza should be base tier and Nink is SSJ tier. I also don't think there's any point in having the SSJ3 tier at all except for maybe having Ribrianne and Obuni there. I personally have Gohan, 17 and Kale all in Blue tier. Ribrianne and Obuni are either SSJ3 or SSJG tier. Why is Kunsi so low?

I, personally, am not moving Frieza until we have better confirmation as to where he belongs. His Final Form was intended to be at SSGod level, and how easily he is trashing opponents is evidence enough for me. Things may change though.

SS1 tier is too low for Nink. Goku has been very good about differentiating when to use SS1 and when to use SSBlue. He has not been good at differentiating the other forms. Nink IS hard to place, but considering I have Ultimate Gohan, SSBerserker Kale, and #17 all at SS3 level, I think he fits there. Goku was holding back against #17 and used only a little more power than SS2 against SSBerserker Kale. Gohan I have grouped in with them, which puts it around SS3 tier.

I don't recall the episode well, but I am pretty sure the only reason Obuni could hit Ultimate Gohan was because he let him get in close as a counter. I highly doubt he is SS3 or SSGod tier.

Kunsi was hard for me. Roshi was able to dodge his threads with ease, but he was able to hold back Hit. I perceived it as Hit was so focused on Dyspo as an opponent because of his light speed, and the fact taht he could come around from any directions, that Hit was just caught off guard by Kunsi. It has also been emphasized narrative-wise that Toppo, Jiren, Dyspo, and Kahseral are the strongest of the Pride Troopers, so I kept Kunsi with the other remaining six.

I can understand your reasoning for Freeza, although I'll still consider him base tier as I never thought of him nor base Goku being god tier in the first place.

I put Nink at SSJ1 tier because he was fighting with Hyssop earlier in the tournament and Nink does not look like the type to be holding back. I think Goku only used Blue because of the pressure it exerts and it was enough to push a large opponent like Nink away.

Well for 17's case, they were both holding back and didn't 17 state Goku was holding back only after he turned Blue? Was there another instance of that being stated? I can't remember. 17 had a lot of untapped potential and training for over a decade seems to make sense to me if Freeza was able to reach a similar level in 4 months.

I think the purpose of the SSBerserker Kale scene (besides being a homage) was to showcase her power and to show hype for Jiren. So based on that purpose, I think that from an out of universe perspective, she is supposed to be Blue tier. I do understand the SSJ3 tier reasoning however considering the way that Goku was acting during that fight.

Ultimate Gohan I have at low end SSJB tier or perhaps high end SSJG since he performed moderately well against SSJB Goku and briefly clashed with Kaioken even if it was per request. Yeah Obuni was only able to hit Gohan due to being set up for a counter, but he still lasted pretty good against him and it took a Kamehameha to take out of the ring rather than a simple physical attack.

Ehhh I guess Kunsi could be higher with the other troopers, I don't really see him being weaker than Vuon at least.

[TAF108]

How strong do you think Master Roshi is compared to characters from Z?

By all rights he should be weaker than Krillin because he's supposed to be the strongest human. Going by Toshio's opinion? Master Roshi should also be weaker than Tien but because of the magic placed on him he was in that one episode able to fight against Base Goku for a bit.

Krillin was weaker than Android 18. Base Goku at start of Super was weaker than Frieza.

Would we place the likes of Roshi, Krillin and Tien in the realm of the lesser Frieza forms?

Ganos is a bit odd. He was said to be stronger than Roshi at least until the end.

Well for one Goku wasn't weaker than Freeza but besides that...
All 3 of the humans at minimum could beat 100% Freeza by scaling Krillin to 18, and that's assuming she didn't get stronger. Going off the imaginary fight Krillin had with Basil they could all be around cell jr level. And if you believe current Base Goku>God Goku then.... they would crush all of Z. But since so don't believe that currently I still think they, and Ganos by association are around the Buu Saga super saiyans.

1. Base Goku was weaker than Frieza. This was stated by Beerus in both Super and the BoG movie. In Super even after going ssj Beerus said Frieza was the best Goku could do, so no you can't just say Beerus sensed suppressed base Goku. Saying he is stronger than Frieza while in base is just going against the writers statements and being in denial.

2. None of the humans are even close to 100% Frieza. Even if you scale off 18 Krillin at best would be around final form Frieza. 18 isn't even that much stronger than Frieza in the first place, I have her around 2x stronger. And in Super power gaps don't mean as much as they used to.

3. Base Goku isn't anywhere near god Goku. This is pretty much confirmed since Goku just went SSG, and Whis even confirmed Goku's ssj form isn't as good as god.

1. Not disagreeing, just saying that's pretty dumb on Beerus' part. MSSJ Goku by the Beerus arc could literally flick Freeza away. And then this is assuming Beerus is talking about 100% Freeza, considering most people's reference of Freeza's power would be First Form. And he rarely revealed his true form, so it's already a leap in logic to assume Beerus is talking about Freeza at his best. But the idea that MSSJ Goku could take Freeza "at best" is a massive low ball considering how easily he'd win that fight. The gap is absurd.

2. Not really disagreeing here either, to a degree. I'd say 2x is a bit low. It's true she's nothing giant like 10x or something. But considering how easily Freeza was beaten by Trunks, and then how Vegeta was stronger than Trunks and how easily she beat Vegeta. I'd say it's closer to 3 times. I will agree that Super has completely forgotten what gaps were like/supposed to be like.

3. Not gonna disagree here either. Personally, I think it's to clustered to even try to go one or the other. Though I'd go with the latter.

[dragon boss z]

1. Not disagreeing, just saying that's pretty dumb on Beerus' part. MSSJ Goku by the Beerus arc could literally flick Freeza away. And then this is assuming Beerus is talking about 100% Freeza, considering most people's reference of Freeza's power would be First Form. And he rarely revealed his true form, so it's already a leap in logic to assume Beerus is talking about Freeza at his best. But the idea that MSSJ Goku could take Freeza "at best" is a massive low ball considering how easily he'd win that fight. The gap is absurd.

2. Not really disagreeing here either, to a degree. I'd say 2x is a bit low. It's true she's nothing giant like 10x or something. But considering how easily Freeza was beaten by Trunks, and then how Vegeta was stronger than Trunks and how easily she beat Vegeta. I'd say it's closer to 3 times. I will agree that Super has completely forgotten what gaps were like/supposed to be like.

3. Not gonna disagree here either. Personally, I think it's to clustered to even try to go one or the other. Though I'd go with the latter.

1. The writers might of did that because after BoG a bunch of people just said it was because Goku was suppressed. Super had Beerus compare ssj Goku to Frieza to shoot that down. And technically Frieza was the best ssj Goku could do because he didn't know of the androids or Cell. It seems he didn't know of Buu either, but ssj Goku couldn't beat Buu at that point anyways.

2. Frieza was killed while suppressed. And it was with a sword and a surprise attack. Also Vegeta beat Dadoria and Qui even easier than Trunks beat Frieza and he was only about 20% stronger than them. Not even 2x.

[The_Destroyer]

Shouldn't Obuni be higher? The fact that he can hurt ultimate gohan should at least put him at ss2. And why is Nink ss3 tier?

Part of the reason I put Obuni in SS1 tier is because he was able to beat Base Gohan kinda easily. Each time Ultimate Gohan was getting attacked was because he let Obuni in, so as to counter his technique.

Nink was stronger than Base form, but Goku needed to go SSBlue to break free of his grasp. Goku used SSBlue against SSBerserker Kale, but it was in the SS3 range of power ("A little more power."). I don't think Goku has used SSBlue at any significant power other than during the Dyspo fight. He phased from red to blue in order to inflict some pain. Each other time he used blue was for lower than normal SSBlue levels (e.g. Trio De Dangers final attack, SSBerserker Kale, Nink, breaking free of Maji=Kayo).

How is Final Form Freeza SSG tier? He should be under base Goku.

I actually don't believe that they retconned Frieza's power. He was intended to be SSGod level during RoF, and we don't have any evidence to suggest he is not at that level anymore. One could argue that Base Goku is a measuring stick, but I would disagree. Frieza has trashed every single opponent in the arena that he has faced. Not, just beat, but trashed.

Freeza should be base tier and Nink is SSJ tier. I also don't think there's any point in having the SSJ3 tier at all except for maybe having Ribrianne and Obuni there. I personally have Gohan, 17 and Kale all in Blue tier. Ribrianne and Obuni are either SSJ3 or SSJG tier. Why is Kunsi so low?

I, personally, am not moving Frieza until we have better confirmation as to where he belongs. His Final Form was intended to be at SSGod level, and how easily he is trashing opponents is evidence enough for me. Things may change though.

SS1 tier is too low for Nink. Goku has been very good about differentiating when to use SS1 and when to use SSBlue. He has not been good at differentiating the other forms. Nink IS hard to place, but considering I have Ultimate Gohan, SSBerserker Kale, and #17 all at SS3 level, I think he fits there. Goku was holding back against #17 and used only a little more power than SS2 against SSBerserker Kale. Gohan I have grouped in with them, which puts it around SS3 tier.

I don't recall the episode well, but I am pretty sure the only reason Obuni could hit Ultimate Gohan was because he let him get in close as a counter. I highly doubt he is SS3 or SSGod tier.

Kunsi was hard for me. Roshi was able to dodge his threads with ease, but he was able to hold back Hit. I perceived it as Hit was so focused on Dyspo as an opponent because of his light speed, and the fact taht he could come around from any directions, that Hit was just caught off guard by Kunsi. It has also been emphasized narrative-wise that Toppo, Jiren, Dyspo, and Kahseral are the strongest of the Pride Troopers, so I kept Kunsi with the other remaining six.

The fact that he was able to hurt Ultimate Gohan means he's far above SS1 tier. And if Nink is SS3 tier then Murichim should be too since he rammed into Toppo. Goku using SSB doesn't mean he needed to.

[brett wheeler]

This is my update of everyone in the tournament so far (I did not include Rabanra, Jimeze, and Maji=Kayo because we have not seen enough of them to be able to rank where they stand. Jilcol is the only person on the list who I am not sure of where he stands because Jimeze eliminated him, and I cannot gauge how strong Jimeze is yet).

[spoiler]Above SSBlue Tier
Jiren (U11)
SSBlue Kaioken Goku (U7)
Toppo (U11)

SSBlue Tier
SSBlue Goku (U7)
SSBlue Vegeta (U7)
True Golden Frieza (U7)
Hit (U6)
Dyspo (U11)

SSGod Tier
SSGod Goku (U7)
Final Form Frieza (U7)

SS3 Tier
SSBerserker Kale (U6)
Ultimate Gohan (U7)
Android 17 (U7)
Brianne de Chateau/Ribrianne (U2)
SS3 Goku (U7)
Nink (U4)

SS2 Tier
Final Form Frost (U6)
Piccolo (U7)
SS2 Goku (U7)
SS2 Vegeta (U7)
SS2 Caulifla (U6)

SS1 Tier
Kahseral (U11)
SSBerserker Controlled Kale (U6)
SS1 Goku (U7)
SS1 Vegeta (U7)
SS1 Caulifla (U6)
SS1 Cabba (U6)
Obuni (U10)
Rubalt (U10)
Magetta (U6)
Bergamo (U9)
Lavender (U9)
Basil (U9)
Jilcol (U10)
Kettol (U11)
Zoiray (U11)
Napapa (U10)
Chappil (U9)
Comfrey (U9)
Hyssop (U9)
Oregano (U9)
Android 18 (U7)
Tupper (U11)
Cocotte (U11)

Base Tier
Base Goku (U7)
Base Vegeta (U7)
Base Gohan (U7)
Base Caulifla (U6)
Base Cabba (U6)
Su Roas/Rozie (U2)
Sanka Ku/Kakunsa (U2)
Vikal (U2)
Botamo (U6)
Krillin (U7)
Tien (U7)
Vuon (U11)
Murichim (U10)
Jirasen (U10)
Majora (U4)
Shosa (U4)
Methiop (U10)
Nigrisshi (U3)
Narirama (U3)
Murisam (U10)
Master Roshi (U7)
Avian Ganos (U4)
Base Kale (U6)
Dercori (U4)
Base Ganos (U4)
Hop (U9)
Kunsi (U11)
Caway (U4)
Sorrel (U9)
Roselle (U9)
Jium (U10)
The Preecho (U3)
Lilibeu (U10)[/spoiler]

I know you put frieza this high for a reason but I don't think that was the intent, goku's base power is supposed to have a definite improvement in power enough that he could take on upper buu lvl characters and probably win, I don't think 4th form frieza nor base goku could ever get as strong as ssg even goku said so when he first achieved ssg it was a power he could never attain on his own, also frieza and goku did trade punches before the tournament and base goku was more than capable to take a punch from fourth form frieza and frieza took some pretty good damage from goku's punch at the least as much as goku took from frieza.

[LowRyder2005]

This is my update of everyone in the tournament so far (I did not include Rabanra, Jimeze, and Maji=Kayo because we have not seen enough of them to be able to rank where they stand. Jilcol is the only person on the list who I am not sure of where he stands because Jimeze eliminated him, and I cannot gauge how strong Jimeze is yet).

[spoiler]Above SSBlue Tier
Jiren (U11)
SSBlue Kaioken Goku (U7)
Toppo (U11)

SSBlue Tier
SSBlue Goku (U7)
SSBlue Vegeta (U7)
True Golden Frieza (U7)
Hit (U6)
Dyspo (U11)

SSGod Tier
SSGod Goku (U7)
Final Form Frieza (U7)

SS3 Tier
SSBerserker Kale (U6)
Ultimate Gohan (U7)
Android 17 (U7)
Brianne de Chateau/Ribrianne (U2)
SS3 Goku (U7)
Nink (U4)

SS2 Tier
Final Form Frost (U6)
Piccolo (U7)
SS2 Goku (U7)
SS2 Vegeta (U7)
SS2 Caulifla (U6)

SS1 Tier
Kahseral (U11)
SSBerserker Controlled Kale (U6)
SS1 Goku (U7)
SS1 Vegeta (U7)
SS1 Caulifla (U6)
SS1 Cabba (U6)
Obuni (U10)
Rubalt (U10)
Magetta (U6)
Bergamo (U9)
Lavender (U9)
Basil (U9)
Jilcol (U10)
Kettol (U11)
Zoiray (U11)
Napapa (U10)
Chappil (U9)
Comfrey (U9)
Hyssop (U9)
Oregano (U9)
Android 18 (U7)
Tupper (U11)
Cocotte (U11)

Base Tier
Base Goku (U7)
Base Vegeta (U7)
Base Gohan (U7)
Base Caulifla (U6)
Base Cabba (U6)
Su Roas/Rozie (U2)
Sanka Ku/Kakunsa (U2)
Vikal (U2)
Botamo (U6)
Krillin (U7)
Tien (U7)
Vuon (U11)
Murichim (U10)
Jirasen (U10)
Majora (U4)
Shosa (U4)
Methiop (U10)
Nigrisshi (U3)
Narirama (U3)
Murisam (U10)
Master Roshi (U7)
Avian Ganos (U4)
Base Kale (U6)
Dercori (U4)
Base Ganos (U4)
Hop (U9)
Kunsi (U11)
Caway (U4)
Sorrel (U9)
Roselle (U9)
Jium (U10)
The Preecho (U3)
Lilibeu (U10)[/spoiler]

I know you put frieza this high for a reason but I don't think that was the intent, goku's base power is supposed to have a definite improvement in power enough that he could take on upper buu lvl characters and probably win, I don't think 4th form frieza nor base goku could ever get as strong as ssg even goku said so when he first achieved ssg it was a power he could never attain on his own, also frieza and goku did trade punches before the tournament and base goku was more than capable to take a punch from fourth form frieza and frieza took some pretty good damage from goku's punch at the least as much as goku took from frieza.

His list's bullet points look perfectly fine, actually.
#18 being appreciably above base Goku is somewhere between being "heavily implied" and "outright shown"; there's no real reason to think she would suddenly become SS3 tier and the story doesn't acknoweldge her as any different, so his placements in that regard are plenty legitimate.

Also, this idea that Goku and Freeza gut-punching each other out should act as proof of anything looks filmsy to me, to say the least, and likely a product of an unconscious search for validation in the least relevant nook and crannies.
Both Goku and Freeza were first and foremost not fighting, and - even going off the assumption that Freeza is in the leagues of early SBGs/SSGs - there's no reason in the world to think Freeza would not suppress himself anyways: he would obviously not punch Goku's guts out or seriously hurt him right before the tournament is about to start, and Goku punching an unguarded and suppressed Freeza would really have the same effect of Krillin hurting SS Goku with a rock, or Goku dying because of Sorbet's laser if we don't want to go that far back.

@Chief_Wamsutta: my list is somewhat similar, bar a few substantial differences (mostly about the more damning parts, like where Frost, Piccolo, Goku and Vegeta stand in relation to non-Ultimate Gohan, or #17/SSBerseker Kale/Ultimate Gohan in general).

[spoiler]Above SSBlue Tier
Jiren
SSBlue Kaioken *10 Goku
Toppo
SSBlue Kaioken Goku

SSBlue Tier
SSBlue Vegeta
Golden Freeza
SSBlue Goku

SSGod Tier
SSGod Goku
Hit
Dyspo

Saiyan Beyond God tier
Final Form Freeza

Between SS3 and SBG tier
Ultimate Gohan
SS3 Goku
SSBerserker Kale

SS2/ SS3 Tier
Android 17
SS2 Vegeta
SS2 Goku
Mr. Buu
Ribrianne
Kahseral
SSBerserker (Controlled) Kale
SS Vegeta
SS Caulifla
SS Goku
Maji=Kayo

SS Tier
SS Caulifla
SS Cabba
Frost
SS2 Gohan
Piccolo
Vuon
SS Gohan
Magetta
Zoiray
Rubalt
Kettol
Android 18
Kunsi
Shosa
Murichim
Napapa
Nink
Jimeze

Base Saiyans Tier
Base Vegeta
Bergamo
Oregano
Base Goku
Basil
Rozie
Tupper
Hop
Base Caulifla
Base Cabba
Cocotte
Obuni
Base Gohan
Lavenda
Hyssop
Chappil
Comfrey
Botamo
Kakunsa
Vikal
Roselle
Jilcol
Sorrel
Methiop
Nigrisshi
Narirama
The Preecho

Humans Tier
Krillin
Tien
Majora
100% Muten Roshi
Murisam
Lilibeu
Jirasen
Ganos
Jium

Below Humans Tier
Dercori
Base Kale
Muten Roshi
Caway[/spoiler]