Do you think DBS is a worthy continuation of DB and DBZ?

[LazyAles22]

I often ask myself this question and I can never answer it: I really want to like DBS but when I analize it, I always come to the conclusion that it's inferior in every way to its predecessors in everything: music, art, atmosphere, story, memorable moments, animation ( I must admit though, some of DBS best animated moments are the best the franchise has to offer, but its bad ones on the other hand are the worst). I feel like Akira doesn't have the same passion for the series. Hell, he doesn't even want to write the manga so he handed it to Toyotaro; someone who loves his franchise wouldn't do that in my opinion. What do you guys think?

[TheMikado]

If he "checks" the anime/manga production he doesn't care much about what goes in it.

There's no way around rationalizing it: either he doesn't care enough about Super to check what's being made, or he doesn't care enough about what's being made to check on Super.

[precita]

It's not perfect and it will never be, and it's a bit of as shame Toriyama doesn't write everything like he used to do with the manga, but at this point I'd say it's a worthy successor.

It of course has flaws and there's still a lot of things I want to see improved, and I definitely want us to go past EOZ and see a new arc with the younger heroes, but by now it's cemented itself as a good continuation.

[AnimeNation101]

yes, yes it is

[MaskedRider]

I think so. Super may not be the bees knees but I can respect the show for being itself in trying to continue the story of its predecessors with their elements and even then its not so much a continuation but a journey as to what happened between the end of Majin Boo and the end of Z.

I can't excuse the art and animation but what came out of the Z movies of Battle of Gods and Resurrection of F / Super adaptions and onward are welcome additions in my book. I would be lying if I said I didn't enjoy Whis, Beerus, Freeza's return, Universe 6's team (though I'm not a fan of Botamo), Vados and Champa's relationship, EVERYTHING in the Future Trunks arc (with the exception of Goku forgetting the senzu beans) with the filler episodes after that (especially the Hit episodes) and all that follows.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUA0y5pFFFs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-neKikA20Sc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk_N5_pFtRM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHs28RK__mU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_4j8RLrbHY

Honestly I could keep the links going but my point is that Super has its own moments that I think that range from outright cool to memorable. I can say the same with the music, I mean nothing will beat the Kikuchi soundtrack but Super's soundtrack not trying to replicate that just to be more like DEE BEE ZEE is what I can appreciate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOCZnVdCDBs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwxvzJrzndw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvsCQotq2yA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0W6lwA2Vsc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juXOFwKDXgs (Though I think this was from the movie)

As I said before, I could keep going but my point is that this is a good soundtrack in my opinion because it has helped set the atmosphere that it needs to set but I can agree there are tracks that are unmemorable but I can't HATE it because of that because I listen to the full soundtrack at times when I need music and nothing is so bad its skipped.

Overall, Super - be it the anime or manga - is worthy as a continuation in my eyes.

[ChiefWamsutta]

Absolutely. For a number of reasons:

1) Lore expansion. This is a fictional story, and I feel that anyone who likes sci-fi would want multiversal expansion.
2) An enemy Goku cannot beat. Beerus has been the benchmark for a very long time, and to find someone who Goku does not surpass in one arc is refreshing.
3) Return of Frieza. At first this seems like an overused trope, as Dragon Ball is full of resurrections; however, this one has been done so well.
4) What happened to Future Trunks? We got to learn more about his timeline, which resulted in seeing him grow beyond SS1 Grade 3. He now is god tier and has taken up the mantle of leader.
5) Evil Goku concept. This was just done so well. Turles could have been this, but considering how confident Goku Black was, it just worked perfectly. His SSRose form being reserved for him made this even better.
6) Fallen god. Zamasu was a beautiful concept. Enough said.
7) Addressing the smaller points in Dragon Ball. #17 interrupts a transformation and gets scolded for it. Universe 7 having a low mortal level is a direct result of Shin not doing his job. This repercussion for his poor behavior is why U7 is up for destruction.
8 ) Bringing back old Z fighters. Roshi, Tien, Android 18, and Krillin have gotten a nice time to shine in RoF and Universe Survival.
9) Downtime episodes. The baseball episode, Arale episode, and the episode where Goku is trying to make a wish and everyone wants it are nice touches to spice things up.
10) Addressing DB/DBZ things. Old Kai speaks about why Goku quit using Kaioken when he unlocks SSB KK. Gowasu explains how the Potara earings unfused Vegeta and Goku. Nice touches.
11) Less focus on powerscaling. US arc has done a great job of focusing on the techniques, which honor old Dragon Ball. Even in U6 arc, Botamo, Hit, and Magetta all had unique abilities.
12) Champa and Beerus' relationship. This is so cool and nice to see some brotherly bonding.
13) Angels. We are learning more and more about their role in the multiverse, but their mystery is a big pro.
14) Zenos. The fact that two children are in charge of the multiverse is hilarious and so Toriyama.
15) New designs. The US designs have been really cool. I love Maji=Kayo, Ribrianne, Liquiir, Rumshii, etc.
16) Gohan's character arc. Ever since 2017 started Gohan has grown because of Barry Kahn, Piccolo, Goku, and Obuni. His unlocking Ultimate again was amazing development.
17) Android 17 is the coolest mofo around, and it is nice to see what he has been up to.
18) Homages. Kale as a LSS homage has been fun because she has grown as her own character too. Pilina being a tribute to Lord Slug sounds like a plus. Caulifla being Goku, Frost being Frieza, and Cabba being Vegeta.
19) The new Super Saiyan forms. I think the recolors are not as bad as people say they are. It is a Toriyama move to change things subtly.
20) The manga being able to be its own thing. There are constant arguments about which is better, but the beauty is that both are creative outlets for people to work together after Toriyama retires.
21) The love put into this series. There really is an aim for love to make this the true successor to DBZ from the likes of Toyotaro, Toei, and Toriyama. They need to make money, but they do care about what the fans have wanted. Overall, a worthy addition to Dragon Ball.

[Boo Machine]

I don't see why not. When it was first announced, I never once expected it to be " Dragonball Z back in full force" and I was right, it isn't. But It still has a lot of characters and moments, be it from the anime or the manga, that I just can't imagine not being apart of the Dragonball world. The moments that make me happy far outweigh the moments that make me plant my face into my desk. And there are plenty of each.

Nobody needed new dragonball, but It's kinda cool that we got some anyway.

[pacz360]

How many times this has been made
Anyway while its inferior to Z it's alright in its own way

[Li'l Lemmy]

I find it to be mostly garbage at this stage. But, that's just me.

Mind you, it has nothing to do with things like inconsistent animation (which Z also had in spades), the rushed production schedule (which probably can't be helped) or the power inflation/inconsistency. I just find that the show takes many of the things that made Z fun and runs away from them at full speed, leaving behind a shallow marketing gimmick in its place.

[Saikyo no Senshi]

This question has come up many times and I have answered in detail, so I will keep it short and say NOPE.

[Super Saiyan Swagger]

Yep. Tons of great character moments, really great villains, stellar fight sequences, really funny and just a whole lotta fun.

Even with its flaws, I thoroughly enjoy it.

[avasatu]

Yes, in almost every way. No, it's not generally quite as good, and it's lows are quite low (and for the worst of reasons), but DBZ isn't as far above as people say it is. Rewatching DBZ, I find myself able to say quite a lot of the same negative things that many of us say about DBS, and almost as consistently. I also find myself wanting to skip a lot of DBZ episodes. DBZ did have a better emotional spark, and the power levels were (kinda) more consistent, and the animation was (kinda) better, but without the Faulconer music, it's not as legendary as it's made out to be (imo).

I think most of the actual, honest fighting in DBZ is worse. Exceptions would be suppressed Goku vs suppressed Perfect Cell, Piccolo vs 17. However, DBZ had MUCH better "domination" moments, where you jumped out of your seat in a testosterone fueled hype party when someone you liked would one shot or absolutely tank all hits from an opponent with utter ease. DBZ had some insane displays of power: the first Final Flash, the IT Kamehameha, Goku's gut punch to 100% Final Frieza, and the Kamehameha struggle with Gohan vs. Cell, but Super has had KK x 10 SSB Goku, Frieza controlling the energy of destruction, Vegeta stomping Black, and quite a few others.

Super has recently shown me that if everyone at Toei really buckled down, this should could be Z level or beyond without too much sweat. And if, in addition, Akira became roughly twice as involved, we'd have a monster. What really needs fixed is the sound effects and some of the animation. We need more intensity and splash damage/particles. But the story of DBS is great.

[Zagacious]

Yes, but there is always something lacking for me personally in almost every episode. Majority of fights and episodes feel like they are cut short. There lacks a lot of fighting between people who are close in power, it's too often a one-sided stomp where the losing side has no chance so the fights end very quickly, so often that it's almost predictable. Most fights feel like they're reaching a moment where they will become very intense, and instead the fights just end.

The fact that fights are almost always consistently short makes me feel like it's imposed by some sort of budget restriction, because one of my favorite aspects of DBZ was that even a minor fight like Android 17 vs Piccolo was able to last a whole episode, now the average fight is 2-3 minutes, and that's not just including the ToP. Things like fights feel very rushed and at the same time other things that don't require as much animation are padded as much as they can to meet the 20 minute mark.

An episode leaving you wanting for more can be a good thing, but not when it happens almost every episode. It's definitely good enough and providing enough new content to justify it's existence, but I feel some major elements of combat from DBZ and original DB are left out entirely. It's rare to see a new move or strategy that actually affects the outcome of a fight in any way. Cool new ideas and skills will be introduced, but then mostly not matter because that character is too weak to make it useful. It's sometimes hard to focus on the actual creativity of fights or techniques because of how all over the place the power scaling is and because of how quickly they are over with.

[GreatSaiyaJeff]

I think it has, now if you'd asked me after the Champa arc I would be mixed but right now it's been great. The Trunks arc and TOP arc have been on par with the original series. Sure they have their weeaknesses (looking at you trunks arc ending) but over all they have been great. Focus on lesser characters, lore expansion, and the little slice of life episodes have been fun.

[LowRyder2005]

My answer is a big, fat "no". To throw out a quick comparison, Dragon Ball Super feels like a bizarre counterpart of Carnival Phantasm for the Fate/stay Night series stuffed with sporadic serious moments in-betwen and a supposedly "grander scale" synopsis.

It might've been a good spin-off under different conditions, it is most certainly a successful marketing operation - although I'm inclined to think the biggest factor is that fans would've taken the bone, any bone, anyway after 20 years without Dragon Ball - but as a proper sequel/midquel and not some cheap, fast-food type of immediate consumption it has very little value compared to the original two-part story. The manga stands more on his own through great art, a more consistent setting and tone because of a profound love and knowledge of the original series on Toyotaro's part, but overall it doesn't really leave as much of an impression either, although the fault is because of the intrinsical problem of midquels; if it acted as the storyboard for the anime, with a different production schedule, I think we would have had an acceptable product.

In general terms, I'd bet a quick buck that if Dragon Ball Super came out at the time GT aired, or immediately after Dragon Ball, it would've garnered around the same type of reactions and success GT had.

[Ballistictiger]

No way it is. It tries to be both, but doesn't get what made both special in it's own ways. One thing that it runs from both is consistency. It's flip flopping everywhere.

[sintzu]

So far no and at this point I don't expect it to. The original although had its flaws, was consistant from start to finish, you could tell it was planned out with staff that had enough time and money to work with. Super so far has been very mixed, both in writing and production.

Writing : No one's had any character development since it started and we're 100+ episodes in and the ones who seemingly did were just going over ground they already covered in the original. Gohan getting his powers back was treated as a big moment but we already did this in the Buu arc. The universes which were Super's biggest thing going for it fell completely on its face when they started this tournament. 90% of the new characters are just cookie cutter fodder of each other. A lot of the characters like Goku and Chi Chi are (most of the time) exaggerated parodies of themselves. We're always getting things out of nowhere that the writers expect us to know about like Trunks' powers or Goku bringing back SsjG out of nowhere. Last but no least, nostalgia and fan service. For some reason the franchise has been living of this sionce RF with no signs of stopping. We've gotten Freeza brought back twice and Future Trunks and Vegetto also came back. We have a Broly clone, alternate reality Saiyans and an alternate reality Freeza in Frost. In the next few episodes we'll be introduced to alternate reality Namakians.

Production : Most fights are very rushed and barely have any choreography, basic things like movement is very stiff and overall, it just seems like they don't have enough time and money to work with.

I've been watching Super since day one and hope to watch it till the very end, I've loved some of its episodes like last week's where I said it was among the franchise's best but that's not enough for me to look past the flaws I wrote above.

I feel like Akira doesn't have the same passion for the series. Hell, he doesn't even want to write the manga so he handed it to Toyotaro; someone who loves his franchise wouldn't do that in my opinion. What do you guys think?

It has nothing to do with passion, he simply can't work on manga anymore. He doesn't even release one shots. Him being involved as much as he is shows how much he cares about the franchise and how much he doesn't want it to go down again like it did with GT and Evolution. He may not be as good of a writer as he once was but that doesn't mean he's not trying.

The manga stands more on his own through great art, a more consistent setting and tone because of a profound love and knowledge of the original series on Toyotaro's part.

I do think that the 2 movies and his manga starting form Champa have so far been a very good continuation of the original. It may be too early to say if it's worthy or not but if the current quality is anything to go by then I think it will be at the end, it's just a shame the anime couldn't be as good or consistant.

[fadeddreams5]

Absolutely not. It's far more entertaining than GT, but its horrible inconsistencies with the originals and oversaturation of transformations unrelated to any facet of the original lore make me want to puke. There are many other things I personally dislike about it, but it's only those two aforementioned things (mostly the former) that make this an unworthy continuation, imo. If it isn't faithful to the source material, how can this be deemed a worthy one?

[precita]

I'm willing to bet if these episodes happened 20 years ago in 1995 rather than now, with almost everything being exactly the same except the older style hand drawn animation from DBZ, nobody would be complaining as much. While some of the power level inconsistencies would have likely been fixed under Toriyama, the actual plots/arcs/character handling is no different than DBZ.

[sintzu]

I'm willing to bet if these episodes happened 20 years ago in 1995 rather than now, with almost everything being exactly the same except the older style hand drawn animation from DBZ, nobody would be complaining as much.

The actual plots/arcs/character handling is no different than DBZ.

It would just follow the previous 2 shows and Dr. Slumb so it'd likely continue to have the same budget and people working on it which would've prevented a lot of the production problems form happening.

Z always introduced new characters to the cast and continuously develped everyone, Super's done none of that. Z never relied on nostalgia and insted always introduced new elements to the plot. The Saiyans, everything that happened on Namek, the androids & Buu are very different form one another, Super pretty much is surviving on nostalgia form Z and seems to be afraid to do something completely new.