Do you think DBS is a worthy continuation of DB and DBZ?

[Basako]

The anime wasn't until this arc for me, now I can say it is. The manga always was, sadly it skipped the second arc and the first one was rushed, but the answer is still yes.

[Super Saiyan Swagger]

Z always introduced new characters to the cast and continuously develped everyone, Super's done none of that. Z never relied on nostalgia and insted always introduced new elements to the plot. The Saiyans, everything that happened on Namek, the androids & Buu are very different form one another, Super pretty much is surviving on nostalgia form Z and seems to be afraid to do something completely new.

I have lost count of the amount of new characters that Super has introduced. What point are you trying to exactly make here? Because I'm having trouble understanding.

And there has definitely been character development in Super. Future Trunks, Vegeta and Gohan are the first that come to mind when I'm thinking character development in this show.

And I don't really see how the show relies on nostalgia, unless if you're talking about how the show does a harmless callback to previous series here and there. I don't see anything wrong with that. I guess I can get behind the argument that the show can heavily rely on fan service on stuff like Kale/Broly, Freeza returning and alternate universe counterparts of other characters/races. But out of all those, the only one I actually have a problem with is Kale being a female Broly with zero substance.

[sintzu]

I have lost count of the amount of new characters that Super has introduced. What point are you trying to exactly make here? Because I'm having trouble understanding.

And there has definitely been character development in Super. Future Trunks, Vegeta and Gohan are the first that come to mind when I'm thinking character development in this show.

I can get behind the argument that the show can heavily rely on fan service on stuff like Kale/Broly, Freeza returning and alternate universe counterparts of other characters/races.

I'm taking about new Z fighters. Z introduced Gohan, Vegeta, Future Trunks, Goten, Kid Trunks, Gotenks & Vegetto. Piccolo who was the previous villain became a good guy. Who has Super introduced ?

What development ? Trunks was the same character he was when we last saw him & Gohan is just going through the same thing he did in the original. I do think Vegeta went through some while training Cabba so I'll give you that.

This is what I'm talking about. I'm not against some here and there but ever since RF we've gotten it all the time. BOG was the last time we got something that was 100% original. Vegetto and Trunks added nothing to the Zamasu arc. Frost was teased as a good Freeza which would've had potential for good stories but they pulled the rug from under that. Now we have 3 new Saiyans (as if we didn't have enough) who are just copies of ones we already have. They brought back Freeza only to kill him off again only to bring him back a 2nd time to probably only kill him off a 3rd time.

[LowRyder2005]

I have lost count of the amount of new characters that Super has introduced. What point are you trying to exactly make here? Because I'm having trouble understanding.

If we want to elaborate on that, which of Super's characters aren't fodder, irrelevant, fill-ins or literal tropes whose purpose is to fill time for the "fighter of the day" episode? By all means and accounts, the only "relevant" Super's characters so far that have made the plot advance "a little" and shuffled things up have been Beerus and Whis... or the plot of BOG (which happened almost four years ago) and, on a lesser note, Black and Zamas (which are, well, two iterations of the same character). Even characters with some sort of foreshadowed backstory, like Cabba, seemingly live and breathe for the purpose of being summoned, usually through deus ex machina means, fight with a character and disappear, changing nothing in the landscape of the series if not for Goku/Vegeta possibly getting stronger or saving the day.

And there has definitely been character development in Super. Future Trunks, Vegeta and Gohan are the first that come to mind when I'm thinking character development in this show.

I've been watching every single episode of Super so far... and how are these guys virtually any different compared to their selves in the final arc of the original manga/ Z?

Are we really equating paper-thin, again, "episode of the day" stuff like "Gohan learns not to drop his guard too much" with some iconoclastic take on the character or Trunks filling his usual, historic, role of apocalypse survivor who went through... well, a second apocalypse as some audacious development? You don't even need to venture into other fiction to find better character development: Dragon Ball alone - which is not exactly Tolstoj - had the entire core cast (Goku, Krillin, Gohan, Piccolo, Vegeta) going through fairly complex arcs, along with credible mentors (Roshi) and even really secondary characters still somewhat organically evolving and changing (#18, Yamcha, Mr. Satan, even Majin Buu of all people).

And I don't really see how the show relies on nostalgia, unless if you're talking about how the show does a harmless callback to previous series here and there. I don't see anything wrong with that. I guess I can get behind the argument that the show can heavily rely on fan service on stuff like Kale/Broly, Freeza returning and alternate universe counterparts of other characters/races. But out of all those, the only one I actually have a problem with is Kale being a female Broly with zero substance.

The show's entire raison d'être is nostalgia.
Which, let's be clear about it, isn't exactly a good or bad thing per se. Absolutely. In Super's case, though, "nostalgia" equates being recognizable and taking as less risks as possible, which means nobody wants to really change the status quo, alas the entire basis of what makes a story function on a fundamental level -- unless you are a very capable writer who can somehow circumvent the narrative conventions ("status quo - conflict - resolution - new status quo"). It really boils down to a classic "why sequels tend to be less good" narrative paradigm: Dragon Ball was created, for the most part, because a guy was inspired and wanted to craft a story, Dragon Ball Super is created, for the most part, because people noticed a real demand and wanted the same guy to continue a story he would've rather put on the shelf years ago. Not even starting with how the guy in question has to do with maybe 30% of the creative process in fleshing out the whole story, which also presents a coincidentially vast compilation of rehashed concepts fanfiction likes to regurgitate.

I mean, free your mind of preconceived notions and imagine a teaser like this: "my Dragon Ball AF" feat. Goku getting a differently colored Super Saiyan! An evil/possessed Goku! Freeza reviving! A fight with an evil member of Freeza race who's from another universe! Android #17 returns! A girl who looks like Broly and who's as strong as Broly was!

[precita]

What about Hit? Other than being a similar stoic personality to Piccolo or Pikkon, etc, his actual character, role (a hitman), and the way he fights is completely unique.

[Super Saiyan Swagger]

I mean, free your mind of preconceived notions and imagine a teaser like this: "my Dragon Ball AF" feat. Goku getting a differently colored Super Saiyan! An evil/possessed Goku! Freeza reviving! A fight with an evil member of Freeza race who's from another universe! Android #17 returns! A girl who looks like Broly and who's as strong as Broly was!

Anything can sound stupid when you put it like that. It's execution that matters. And I think Super's done a pretty good job at executing these things with the exception of Kale.

[LowRyder2005]

What about Hit? Other than being a similar stoic personality to Piccolo or Pikkon, etc, his actual character, role (a hitman), and the way he fights is completely unique.

I think Hit was/still is interesting in general; in fact, I think I've gone on the record saying multiple times that I deem the very end of Hit vs. Goku and Hit's camaraderie/ sentiment of self-sacrifice as one of the few "organically cool" moments in Super... but I believe he too suffers from the "monster of the week" syndrome, which lessens his weight in the grand scheme of things. Although he is the thing closest to an actual antagonist in the Champa arc, and what I feel are the "problems" of that arc have more with the entire thing feeling like a prelude to something else (which in part actually is, I guess) and not Hit himself.

I would've been happier if Hit was introduced differently, perhaps, with his own backstory playing a part in it (instead of being decorative, simply there to promote this staunch fella as a super swell guy who would've faced Goku in a tournament setting).

Now that I think about, I think Super would have greatly benefited from having the Champa and the Zamas' arc treated as a single, cohesive story progression, instead of two arcs advertised as their own thing and separated by weeks and filler episodes; with guys like Hit, Champa and Vados having a more recurring role in the two it could've created some nice changes of pace.

Anything can sound stupid when you put it like that. It's execution that matters. And I think Super's done a pretty good job at executing these things with the exception of Kale.

... Obviously? I hope you can see for yourself that it wasn't my point, though.

[Super Saiyan Swagger]

Anything can sound stupid when you put it like that. It's execution that matters. And I think Super's done a pretty good job at executing these things with the exception of Kale.

... Obviously? I hope you can see for yourself that it wasn't my point, though.

I thought you were trying to point out how fan-fiction-y Super's ideas are in that last paragraph. Sure, Evil Goku, Female Broly and another version of Freeza all sounds dumb as shit. But even the stupidest of ideas can be fleshed out into something interesting if executed properly.

Sorry if I missed your point.

[Tombstone1988]

I'm not sure "worthy" is the appropriate word choice, but I think, in general, Dragon Ball Super does a good job at continuing the series. It does, however, suffer from some major issues in my opinion.

LowRyder2005 hit part of the nail on the head, stating the show likes to play it safe. Now, from a business standpoint, I absolutely understand that, as Toei is much bigger than it used to be and taking risks in terms of story or structure could do more harm now than it would have previously. However, the writer in me sees the potential of a series like Dragon Ball and gets a little sad.

The constant fan service is also fairly annoying, to me anyway. I don't mind the occasional throwback, especially if it's a filler episode; in fact, that's probably why I love the baseball episode. However, sticking in some sort of throwback to DB or DBZ (or even early DBS) nearly every episode causes me to question how much originality the writers have. Recently, we have a reference to Bacterian (episode 99), a nearly shot-for-shot Broly tribute (episode 100), a clear reference to the Ginyu Force, in addition to a parallel to Cell Games Gohan (episode 101), two instances of the Hellzone Grenade, with Piccolo for some reason being the second instance (episode 103), and a parallel to SSG Goku vs. Beerus with SSG Goku vs. Dyspo (episode 104). This tournament, at least thus far, feels like it's leaning more on nostalgia and satire (episode 102) than anything else. And when I think of writing like that, I immediately think of fanfiction.

The writing in general is rather weak, actually. That's probably the biggest gripe overall. It's a fine show, but it has some dreadfully inconsistent writing.

[PsionicWarrior]

It had an awful start but in the meantime we had plenty of awesome stuff and major improvements on animation so yes it is. And even looking back, the first arcs aren't so bad, it's the initial drawings that were disastrous but they corrected it now.

[Nero<>Akira]

Yes. But i would have rather had movies to continue it. Toei got greedy and made the more or less not smart decision of retelling BOG and F. I understand it was for narrative purposes and is actually the best way to start a new series. The 1st ep was a great way to start it off and continue from there. But Toei should've just reused the movies and split them into episodes for the core story with the extra stuff they gave the arcs like the slice of life stuff or goku and vegeta training segments.

AT should be more involved as well.

There's too much untapped potential though. It literally lends itself to innumerable spin-offs and for the DB Universe to become Star Wars, but not the way Gundam is.

[SsjCookie]

No!

[Lord Beerus]

I definitely think so. I believe Dragon Ball Super has stepped up to the plat and proven itself to be a good show and nice bridge from DB and DBZ.

I really like Dragon Ball Super not going down the conventional route of power scaling and battle powers like Z did. Super is already dealing with major complaints that Goku and Vegeta do everything the show, so having guys like Roshi, Tenshinhan and Krillin being brought back into prominence is a very welcome direction to me. Super wants everyone in the team to be super strong and awesome and not feel like jobbers or dead weight compared to Goku and Vegeta and contribute something of importance to the plot. It's like the polar opposite of GT. For me, it make things way interesting, and I kinda adore Super for taking this approach.

Of course this approach is very much a double edged sword and it can create issue with determining how strong certain character may be. And there's nothing wrong with wanting consistency in power strength and everyone has to right to call bullshit on Dragon Ball Super's power level shenanigans. But power consistency doesn't matter much to me if the story itself is uninteresting and doesn't experiment with other members of the cast to bring something unique to the plot. If a shake up of the status quo is needed to make the narrative more intriguing and have we have to break some non-established and already contradictory power hierarchy "rules" to give guys like Krillin, Roshi and Tien their moment in the sun, while also bringing back an essence of the teamwork and strategy that has been lost in Dragon Ball for so many years, then so be it. I'd much rather have an interesting show with an unorthodox approach to power, strategy and teamwork, where all the cast feel worthwhile, than just a run-of-the-mill fighting show where you know the supporting can't do anything and the main character(s) are untouchable and do most of the heavy lifting. We already went down route during a large portion of Z and practically all of GT.

And that's speaking of giving guys like Krillin, Roshi and Tien their moment in the sun, that's another point I wanted to add, there's more of an emphasis of an ensemble cast, rather than the Saiyans doing everything in Super, and I really want them to continue with this direction. Even in arc like Future Trunks arc, character like Future Mai, Future Yajirobe and the remaining Earthling of Future Trunks world were essential to the plot. Of course I wouldn't mind, and really openly encourage, Super to go into a bit more detail with how some of the supporting cast get stronger. But's it nothing that will enhance or decrease my enjoyment of the show. How consistent the battle powers are have never been a issue to me. I'm more interested in the show providing major moments for characters outside of the Saiyans, aliens and Gods, and Super is doing that for me. Super wants be its own thing, for better or for worse, and to be honest, I respect the hell of the show for taking that approach. So more power to them for it.

I also adore the downtime episodes. They just work so well in bridging the gap from one arc to the next. It just helps the narrative feel more cohesive and structured. Plus, they're just so much fun. And provide the perfect balance of world building and character interactions. Something that Dragon Ball has been historically lackluster in. The only filler episodes I've found to lack any really quality was the Copy Vegeta shit. And thankfully it only lasts three episodes. But even then, it was a total slog to get through and the ending of the mini filler arc left such a sour taste in my mouth. Fortunately, all of the other filler episodes have ranged from decent to just flat out great like. The Baseball episode being grand the highlight. What a absolute fucking riot that episode was. Hell, some of the most entertaining episodes in all of Super, and in all of Dragon Ball in my opinion, have been the slice-of-life/cooldown episodes. I think that's where the writers seem to have the most fun and/or are given the most freedom. And it really shows with how even the most trivial concept for a "throwaway" episode can be so entertaining and rich with content.

Despite all this praise, there some things that Super has introduced that can make what you knew about Dragon Ball seem less grand or significant. The only "Super-ism" that really irks me is the reveal that Beerus told Frieza to destroy planet. I hate that so much retcon a lot. I understand that they want to include Beerus in as much lore as possible to make his stance in the universe more significant, but there is line that needs to be drawn. The revelation that Beerus told Freeza to blow up Planet Vegeta just kills any sort of irony or drama the Freeza arc had, and it undermines all of the antagonism that Freeza had towards the Saiyans and Bardock, Goku and Vegeta had to Freeza. And that by default make their stories with Freeza much less meaningful. I vastly much prefer the implications that Beerus perhaps had planned to destroy Planet Vegeta himself, than Super just outright stating that Beerus did tell Freeza to blow it up. Ironically, I love Beerus, and one of the reasons I love the character so much is because how much he contributes to the universe and making it feel larger than it is. But that was just really unnecessary on Super's part. They should have kept it vague and ambiguous like they did in the movie.

Dragon Ball also absolutely abuses the narrative concept of "show, don't tell". Dragon Ball's never had a detailed story, and the world building itself isn't all it's cracked up to be, but with Super, especially with the anime, more times than often, the show is fine with just taking the option of not bothering to provide any kind of detail or background or tidbit in scenarios where it could desperately need it. The Future Trunks arc, as much I really like the arc, was the worst offender of this. Elements like how Goku Black got much stronger with every fight, Future Trunks raging Super Saiyan form and how Zamasu merged with the universe were left vague and unexplained. The Genki Dama Sword is the nadir of the nonsense Dragon Ball Super can produce. Yeah, it looks pretty nice. And the meaning behind it is sincere given the nature of the arc it happens in. But you're ultimately left asking, "Okay, how did Future Trunks do that?"

There have always been instances in the franchise where events have happened and forms had been achieved off-screen and you think to yourself, "How did that happened?" But would could always look back the manga or anime and in most instances you'd get a throwaway line or flashback or filler moment that could at least provide some form of context to the fill the void of information that was needed to understand the scenario. In Super, we barely, most of the time that doesn't happen. And some explanations we do get just makes thing more complicated. It really frustrates me. Some episodes really make me feel like I'm watching GT again. The show can only rule on "Rule of Cool" and "Rule of Symbolism" so much before they have to take step back and actually explain how some scenarios unfold.

The manga is also very good. And in relation to the anime, since a comparison will be inevitable, I like the manga a lot for its more consistent art style, streamlined story and workable power scale. But it comes at the cost of actual character development, or in some cases very rushed character development, and breather periods which helped the story feel more engrossing and less rushed. Yes, the manga has better pacing but the overall narrative, despite having much less fat compared to how dragged out the anime can get at time, especially if you imagine a scenario where the anime doesn't exist, feels so half baked. It just lacks that "wow" factor that the anime gave us at times and it doesn't do enough to make me care for what happens. Having power consistency is one thing, but making me care about the fate of the characters and being personally invested in them is another. And the manga just doesn't cut the mustard for me in that regard in comparison to the anime, despite the anime's many shortcomings in itself.

Nevertheless, I think the manga and anime do well in complementing each other and cancelling out their weakness and playing up to their strengths and both mediums deserves their fair share of praise and criticism for what they've done well and what they haven't done well. I mean, considering that the manga is basically a promotion tool for the anime, the fact that it manages to handle some aspects of the story better than the anime is something that truly had to be admired for what is basically a glorified advertisement of a show that was blatantly created for the purpose of pimping out more toys and cards. Toyotaro is very much a fan of the franchise and his love for Dragon Ball overflows into the manga with his call backs, homages, uses of gags and how he overall crafts and re-envisions the plot outline from Toriyama.

I think the most important thing to take from Super as a whole, from my perspective in regards to its inherits flaws, is that it just doesn't feel like Toriyama's Dragon Ball with how the plot is handled at times in the anime or the manga. It feels like someone else's Dragon Ball. And it's made more apparent with how characters can act widely different in every other episode or in every other main story arc in the anime. Much like Dragon Ball GT, Dragon Ball Super is in this weird area where to an extent it looks like Toriyama's Dragon Ball, it tells a story like Toriyama's Dragon Ball, but it just doesn't feel like Toriyama's Dragon Ball. I think the biggest reason for all these differences is that Super is ultimately a product tackled by many writers to expand on the baseline plot provided by Toriyama while also manufacturing his charm and spirit that was very much apparent when he was writing the manga on a weekly basis, even when he going through major burnout in the later stages of the Majin Boo arc. In the original story (the manga), character arcs began and ended respectfully and were generally well told. Big events had much proper build. And everything about the narrative of the original manga intertwined a lot better, even when nonsensical moments happen. Super can sometimes have build up to big moments and sometimes it doesn't. Characters arcs seem to go on continuously before being reset (I'm looking at you Krillin). Nonsensical moments happen in Super but they sometime don't feel organic to the plot (I'm looking at you Super Saiyan Rage).

Overall, DB and Z are still a much better shows as a whole, there's really no disputing that at this stage. Although DB and Z itself are far from perfect, both shows just have less flaws than Super does and has more high points than Super. Super itself is a deeply flawed show with several problems on a narrative and production scale, and I can certainly understand why anyone would not like the show. The show overall still has many rough edges with its inconsistent animation, occasionally flat soundtrack, contradictory character writing and the unappealing current Yamamuro artstyle. But despite all that, I really enjoy Dragon Ball Super, warts and all. And it's very much deserved to be seen as a significant pillar to Dragon Ball's larger scale narrative. I personally think Super shows a lot of promise with it's lore and can be very engaging even during it's most uneventful episodes. On certain days, when Super wants to be great, it can be really great. But when it's awful, holy shit, is it awful. Ever since the Champa/Universe 6 arc, the show has really picked up in terms of overall quality and Future Trunks arc has shown the potential of how great Super can be. Who knows how Super will progress or how long it will last for. It could end up being better than DB and/or Z. Let hope the quality continues to sustain itself for that to be potentially the case.

[Tombstone1988]

Wow. You know Lord Beerus, since I've joined I haven't always agreed with your opinions, but this was a fantastic post. Well done.

[LowRyder2005]

@Lord Beerus: While I don't share the sentiment in general (and I won't quote your entire, sizable dissertation), I'm delighted some people can find pleasure in what are some of the "cons" for me; your consideration for the pseudo-filler episodes in particular is pretty quaint and insightful.

Expect for *coff* the fact you probably need to give a second glance at what "show, not tell" is technically supposed to be (spoiler: it's not exactly something akin to "we're gonna avoid to explain things 'cuz we think nobody cares") *coff*, sorry. I know, I'm a stinker.

[sintzu]

Who knows how Super will progress or how long it will last for. It could end up being better than DB and/or Z.

I don't see how it could at this point. Even if it got a huge jump in quality out of nowhere, it won't make up for the 100+ inferior episodes. The only way I can see modern DB surpassing the original is if Super ends and they start a new show and handle it completely different.

[SaiyanGod117]

It's GRADE A Garbage, one of the worst shonen anime I've ever seen, the writing is objectively shit and to actually think it's good or (great) shows how low your standards are. All in all, it basically fails on every front compared to its predecessors and medium in-general. Ultimately, the only reason it's still ongoing and making money now is because it's riding on the cocktails of the author's and Dragon Ball's name.

[Analytical Delusion]

I would say so. There is a bit of a different feel though.

Arcs seem to be structured a bit differently. I believe Toriyama was writing by the seat of his pants during the original serialization. The result was (beginning with the tone change in the original DB), four very large mega arcs in which there is an imminent, direct global (or larger scale) threat, separated by periods of peace:

22nd TB-King Piccolo-23rd TB
-5 year gap-
Raditz-Vegeta/Nappa-Namek
-1.5 year gap-
Freeza/Cold-Androids-Cell
-7 year gap
25th TB-Babidi/Buu

There is some passage of time in the first three (including training arcs) that we didn't see in Buu. Part of that is due to the introduction of the ROSAT. But the pattern is pretty clear in general.

As these arcs are all drawn out over multiple years of weekly chapters, there are a good deal of surprises, curveballs and plot shifts. I don't think we really see that as much in Super. In Super so far (prior to ToP), generally speaking:

(i) There has not been any clearly documented passage of time within arcs.
(ii) The main 'big bad' has been introduced immediately.

This is particularly evidenced in the two movie adaptations. Both were written for hour-long presentations, rather than dozens of episode. I think both BoG and FnF were very coherent products, and were written well. But neither makes for a good major plot in a series. I do have to admit though, I might be selling the FnF anime adaptation a bit short. I'm a big sucker for training, and there is a lot of that in the lead up to Freeza's arrival on earth. For the most part though, both Beerus and Freeza are introduced from day one, and we know that they'll be the final enemies faced.

The Universe 6 tournament was kind of similar. In general I wasn't a huge fan of tournaments as standalone events in DB/DBZ, though I thought they played well as buildup/culminations in bigger plots. Again, there was training stuff leading up to the tournament, including 3 (!!!) years in the ROSAT. Bulma and Jaco also had that Zuno visit to find out about the Super DBs (though in the end, it was kind of worthless I suppose). I wish that both were expanded upon a bit more. I think that the U6 stuff is fine if viewed in a different context (will expand shortly).

The Zamasu/Trunks arc was handled fairly well I believe. The mystery of the identity of Black loomed for a lot of the arc, and made for a ton of suspense that I think was missing from the first three arcs. I think the trips to-and-from the future also were useful devices for spacing. However, I don't think the passage of time was made clear enough. This is, again, an unfortunate side effect of the ROSAT (which I think is a very innovative device). We're given no lens into Vegeta's training while in the present, and returning to the future is too rushed. I understand in-universe why it was important to hurry (since the timelines are linked or something to that extent), and given how things were written it's fairly logical. But it seems like a wasted opportunity largely.

The ToP arc seems to be a bit of an improvement. Assuming the core events we've seen are among Toriyama's outlines (Exhibition-Recruitment-ToP-???), I think both of the issues I've mentioned (everything being bunched together & lack of passage of time, plus the 'big bad' being identified too early) were avoided. Further, if the ToP is viewed as a continuation of the U6 arc, I think it makes for a very solid larger arc, with another well-organized plotline (Zamasu/Trunks) interrupting and being resolved midway through.

This is part of the advantage of having things planned in advance, at least on an arc level. Just as the U6 arc could tie into the TOP, the BOG arc can be viewed as leading into U6 (introducing the cast to the pantheon of gods, and foreshadowing the other powerful fighters in other universes). If Freeza's recruitment is a major part of the ToP in Toriyama's outlines, then the FnF stuff makes a ton more sense, and actually has a purpose. Instead of the clean breaks in DB/DBZ, everything in Super (aside from Zamasu/Trunks, at least to this point, aside from hyping up Zeno's power; though maybe the fact Future Zeno is present will have some payoff down the line).

I think this nebulous, huge interwoven web technique can work out well, and I enjoy the product Super has put out as well. It's a bit different than late DB-DBZ for the most part in terms of structure, but I think (especially with the ToP stuff) it's gotten back on track. I still wish that there was more of a feel of when time has passed, and how much time has passed (for which exploring training scenes is again, a terrific expositional technique), but it is a solid product. There isn't really much unnecessary fluff outside of the obvious filler (there wasn't in late DB-DBZ either, aside from the Buu arc; the entire fusion/absorption portion can IMO be excised without much loss), and plots are probably more coherent than the original series due to central planning as opposed to weekly writing.

[Lord Beerus]

Expect for *coff* the fact you probably need to give a second glance at what "show, not tell" is technically supposed to be (spoiler: it's not exactly something akin to "we're gonna avoid to explain things 'cuz we think nobody cares") *coff*, sorry. I know, I'm a stinker.

Fair enough. I've always assumed that the narrative technique of "show, don't tell" was to enable the reader/watcher to experience the story through actions, thoughts, senses, and feelings rather than through exposition, summarisations, and descriptions. Which is what I assumed they were going for with the Genki Dama Sword. The show didn't feel as though it needed to explain what was happening but rather you be be taken aback by the spectacle of the moment and the representation of it. I apologize if I was off the ball with that one, but that's how I've always seen it. Another elaboration from you would be more than welcome to further enlighten me.

For the record, I'm very glad you and other users like my post. I put a lot of effort into it because Dragon Ball Super is such a weird beast of show that trying to assess its truly quality can be quite difficult with how much the show can drop the ball with fresh and unique concept (everything related to God ki) but can also manage to pull a golden rabbit out the hat with ideas that look shit on paper ("Evil" Goku and Freeza being brought back to life again). I mean, just the most recent episode produce was one of the best character driven episode I've seen in Dragon Ball... and it was centered around Roshi. The same character that Super also produced one its worst episodes for. It's just so bizarre. I think the best way of describing Dragon Ball Super is bipolar. You don't know what you're going to get. And that ironically works as the show's major hook, even for those who aren't wholly interested in Super as a concept.

It's GRADE A Garbage, one of the worst shonen anime I've ever seen, the writing is objectively shit and to actually think it's good or (great) shows how low your standards are. All in all, it basically fails on every front compared to its predecessors and medium in-general. Ultimately, the only reason it's still ongoing and making money now is because it's riding on the cocktails of the author's and Dragon Ball's name.

*sigh*

If you're going to express your opinion of the show, that is fine. But please be impartial. Don't throw around words like "objectively", as if you know something about Super for a fact, when the main topic of this thread is to express your opinion. And even more so, please don't be condescending and belittle those who actually like the show and think that it is good or great. You'll be surprised to know that there are many people who like Dragon Ball Super despite its issues.

[sintzu]

Arcs seem to be structured a bit differently. I believe Toriyama was writing by the seat of his pants during the original serialization.

The two movie adaptation were written for hour-long presentations, rather than dozens of episode. neither makes for a good major plot in a series.

This alongside the fact that he was the only person working on it and was doing what he thought would make fro a good story. Now he's working with other writers and has to answer to multiple companies that each have different expectations form him and the franchise.

This is the feeling I got from Champa and Zamasu's arcs as well. They were both well told stories but neither felt like they had enough content for episodic arcs. The current arc isn't over but so far its been the same. Another thing is the lack of connections between the 5 arcs, they feel like standalone stories rather than one long story like the original was.