Rivalries

Alice · Post by **Alice** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 1:15 pm

I know a bit about Japan, but not a lot, so...

A lot of Dragonball and DBZ's plot is made up of rivalries and skill polishing. Is the idea of having rivalries with your peers over shared skills something that just appears a lot in anime as a entertaining plot device, especially Dragonball, or is it a actual part of Japanese culture?

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 4:30 pm

Well a lot of that is part of the whole Shonen formula really. If you look at other similar types of anime, you'll see it there too. Naruto vs. Sasuke, Ichigo vs. Ishida, Yusuke vs Hiei, Yugi vs Kaiba, etc.

Timo · Post by **Timo** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 4:57 pm

I read some about this in a German anime magazine back in 1999 (I believe). It is a culture thing.
One of the famous (and oldest) rivalries is Musashi vs Kojiro from the novel (or biography containing own interpretations if you will) Musashi by Eiji Yoshikawa.

Duo · Post by **Duo** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 12:48 am

Heck, wanna take a stab at naming them all?

(If you say Goku and Vegeta, decapitation is your punishment.)

(If you say it anyway, it's not funny.)

Casual Matt · Post by **Casual Matt** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:19 am

Duo wrote:Heck, wanna take a stab at naming them all?

(If you say Goku and Vegeta, decapitation is your punishment.)

(If you say it anyway, it's not funny.)

How about Goku and anybody? Yamucha, Kuririn, Tenshinhan, Piccolo / Majunior. They've all had rivalries with Goku. Vegeta is just the one that lasted because of lack of resolution until the Boo Arc. That and Vegeta is far more stubborn than any of the other mentioned characters.

Duo · Post by **Duo** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:48 am

Yeah, when you think about it, almost every rivalry that ever occurred on an obvious level was between Goku and somebody else.

I can't recall Gohan ever having a rival. That's sad.

Prince Vegeta · Post by **Prince Vegeta** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 12:13 pm

Duo wrote:Yeah, when you think about it, almost every rivalry that ever occurred on an obvious level was between Goku and somebody else.

I can't recall Gohan ever having a rival. That's sad.

Well there were some other rivalries like:

Goten Trunks,Chaotzu Krillin,Tsuru-Sen'nin Kame-Sen'nin,Yamcha Tenshinhan,Vegeta Kiwi and some others.

As for Gohan it's not in his Character to hate someone to an extent of being his rival.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 12:26 pm

Nobody cares enough about Gohan to waste time on being his rival.

Especially since all you'd have to do is any training at all and you'll beat him.

Duo · Post by **Duo** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 12:28 pm

Was it in Goku's?

I don't see Kuririn / Chaozu or Yamcha / Tenshinhan has rivalries. They just happened to fight at the 22'nd Tenka'ichi Budokai. Same could be said for Vegeta and Kiwi.

But Crane / Turtle totally slipped my mind. Thanks for reminding me of that.

Casual Matt · Post by **Casual Matt** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 1:43 pm

Well, Yamucha and Tenshinhan totally had a rivalry going on for a little while. Well, at least from Yamucha's point of view.

caejones · Post by **caejones** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 2:23 pm

I was under the impression that Vegeta and Kewi had a rivalry of sorts, but Vegeta went off and did his own thig and forgot about it.

Buu Vs Gohan?

Bomber Greek · Post by **Bomber Greek** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:39 pm

You can't really call a bad guy your rival, so I would have to disagree with Buu vs. Gohan.

caejones · Post by **caejones** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:49 pm

More that Buu had a rivalry with Gohan, not so much on Gohan's end.
Like Buu's crazy preparings for Gohan and the way he handled everything after that, and how Gohan was his final choice for absorption...

Alice · Post by **Alice** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:07 pm

Jerseymilk wrote:Well a lot of that is part of the whole Shonen formula really. If you look at other similar types of anime, you'll see it there too. Naruto vs. Sasuke, Ichigo vs. Ishida, Yusuke vs Hiei, Yugi vs Kaiba, etc.

That's what I mean, it seems almost every shonen and some shojo manga/anime I've ever seen contains a rivalry. In Azumanga Daioh, a manga set in a highschool, one character introduces themself to another as "I'm your rival" because they're both good at sports. Most of Dragonball's plot is made up of some kind of rivalry or another. I'm just wondering why it's such a big and common thing.

Edit: In Japanese entertainment, I mean.

mAcChaos · Post by **mAcChaos** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 11:09 am

I dunno, isn't it natural to have one? All of my friends are my "rivals."

caejones · Post by **caejones** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 2:27 pm

What's a deep character-ladened story without competition that is never resolved?

If Piccolo just = bad guy, it becomes the red ribbon saga with more kickass fights.
If goku is deeply pissed at Piccolo, and Piccolo deeply pissed at Goku, it's a lot more interesting!

Post by **Herms** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:43 pm

Duo wrote:

I can't recall Gohan ever having a rival. That's sad.

If you think about it, Gohan is pretty much his own rival. He’s the only character who has a substantial amount of self-doubt. The rivalries throughout the series serve as a way of defining who the characters are. For instance, Goku’s beliefs and values are shown by contrasting them to Vegeta’s (or Piccolo’s, or anybody’s). Gohan’s primary struggle throughout the series is to try and decide who he want to be, what his values are. He has to basically fight himself. I don’t think giving him an external rival would have added anything; it would probably have just confused things.

Duo again:

I don't see Kuririn / Chaozu or Yamcha / Tenshinhan has rivalries. They just happened to fight at the 22'nd Tenka'ichi Budokai. Same could be said for Vegeta and Kiwi.

Oddly, a lot of the recent games seem to portray Yamchan and Tenshinhan as having a sort of friendly rivalry. I don’t know if this is solely based on their one fight in the series, of if it’s by virtue of their both being founding members of the Shafted Humans Club.

As for Vegeta and Kiwi, they were supposed to be rivals when they were both working for Freeza, which is why Kiwi is so happy to get the order to kill Vegeta. Daizenshuu 4 even labels them as “Rivals” (using the English word) in its chart of all Freeza’s henchmen. Of course, with Vegeta’s new power their rivalry doesn’t last much longer.

nitemare · Post by **nitemare** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:54 am

As for Yamucha and Tenshinhan they are shown battling at least twice later in anime (during Kamisama's and Kaiosama's trainings) with specific smiles upon which I think express excitement and means a friendly rivalry.

The most amusing rivalry though is between North Kaio and West Kaio, IMO - I know it's mainly restraint to quarrels about whose pupil is the best in afterlife but it's even more funny than Kamesennin and Tsurusennin rivalry ;]

Thanos6 · Post by **Thanos6** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 5:29 am

He’s the only character who has a substantial amount of self-doubt.

Mirai Trunks, too, I think...

For a non-Japanese rivalry, I think Harry Potter and Draco Malfoy would have to be the biggest to come along in a while.

Kanzenshuu

Rivalries

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