Do you think DBS is a worthy continuation of DB and DBZ?

[Saturnine]

GT is more of a worthy continuation in my eyes. The show is plagued with problems but if nothing else they handled the characters much, much better than Super has

You gotta be kidding me. Vegeta was so utterly butchered in GT that it was painful to even watch his scenes. His development in Super was much, much better. Can't speak for the other chars though

[BlueBasilisk]

GT is more of a worthy continuation in my eyes. The show is plagued with problems but if nothing else they handled the characters much, much better than Super has

You gotta be kidding me. Vegeta was so utterly butchered in GT that it was painful to even watch his scenes. His development in Super was much, much better. Can't speak for the other chars though

GT did all right by Mr. Satan. His relationships with Goku, Pan and Buu were really great. Then they took Buu away from him just to job Majuub out to Baby. I get the impression someone on the GT staff really did not like Piccolo though. He showed up for all of 30 seconds and got dumped on by Gohan, then died and went to hell.

[TheMikado]

@Mikado
I'm sorry butI don't see how this makes GT either Toriyama's work or canon.

That's because all of this is Toei canon to which GT is a part of. The only Toriyama canon would be his original manga and whatever he designs,writes, or outlines would which include both Super or GT things he's written meaning they exist in his imagined universes. However what we are getting on our screens is Toei canon.

If you want want to say what is and isn't canon then you're going to need to be very specific about your definitions.

[TheMikado]

GT is more of a worthy continuation in my eyes. The show is plagued with problems but if nothing else they handled the characters much, much better than Super has

You gotta be kidding me. Vegeta was so utterly butchered in GT that it was painful to even watch his scenes. His development in Super was much, much better. Can't speak for the other chars though

I beg of you for the love of all that is Dragonball to watch the episode "Heart of the Prince" if you in anywaybshape or form have even a sliver of an ounce of understanding of Vegetas character then you can in no way shape or form claim that Vegetas character was not handled properly in GT. Please
Please
Please
Please
Please

Go watch this episode.

[Zagacious]

It's been the same since episode one, a mixed bag. There are some improvments here and there but nowhere near what people make them out to be. If Super was a 5 when it started then it's just a 6 now.

There has been a clear change in the animation after FTrunks arc (and some fights already started to be very good inside this arc), fights from before and from now are like night and day. Some even have better dynamics than in Z with their use of camera.

No. It's enjoyable fanfiction.
GT is more of a worthy continuation in my eyes.

Actually it's the other way around, Super is the official continuation and GT is the actual fan fiction lol

Animation is the least of the complaints really, it sometimes gets so bad in rare instances that it stands out, but other than that most people don't seem to mind. The top complaints seem to be the pacing of battles, inconsistency of power between episodes, characters doing things for plot-sake rather then it being something that character would naturally do, continuity issues (each episode feels like it's own mini story rather than continuing in any way, which is further influenced by things being inconsistent not just power), overall pacing of episodes in certain arcs (spending 3 episodes on filler then having a 2 minute fight and call it good), fights always seem to be cut short when they are just starting to get good, lack of impact of attacks during battles. People are 'blown away' during fights but take no visible damage, sometimes feels like no one is taking damage.

GT is more of a worthy continuation in my eyes. The show is plagued with problems but if nothing else they handled the characters much, much better than Super has

You gotta be kidding me. Vegeta was so utterly butchered in GT that it was painful to even watch his scenes. His development in Super was much, much better. Can't speak for the other chars though

I beg of you for the love of all that is Dragonball to watch the episode "Heart of the Prince" if you in anywaybshape or form have even a sliver of an ounce of understanding of Vegetas character then you can in no way shape or form claim that Vegetas character was not handled properly in GT. Please
Please
Please
Please
Please

Go watch this episode.

Just lol. Vegeta practically has no character or development going on in Super, sometimes it feels like he's less present than he was in GT. Which isn't true, but it's just the fact that he's treated more as a side character most of the time and times when you would expect him to comment or say something he just says nothing. GT Vegeta had a lot more personality, and it felt like his own continuation from DBZ, even if he wasn't involved in the story nearly enough. In Super he has no character. Sometimes I wonder if these people trashing GT so hard even watched it aside from a few battles.

[MaskedRider]

I think to be fair on both series, its hard to develop further what was thought already developed characters.

[Asura]

GT is more of a worthy continuation in my eyes. The show is plagued with problems but if nothing else they handled the characters much, much better than Super has

You gotta be kidding me. Vegeta was so utterly butchered in GT that it was painful to even watch his scenes. His development in Super was much, much better. Can't speak for the other chars though

How do you figure? At the end of the Buu fight Vegeta finally admits that Goku will always be better than him, and he finally learns to put aside his hatred of him. In GT, this character trait is further emphasized by showing that Vegeta is no longer Goku's rival but instead his friend, and it is continued development from how Vegeta acted at the end of the Buu saga and in EoZ.

Super completely undoes all the development Vegeta goes through in the Buu arc and immediately has him become Goku's rival again. All that Buu saga development was literally thrown right out the window. Vegeta has received development in Super particularly during the Future Trunks arc, but it is not any kind of logical development that stems from Z.

[Boo Machine]

I beg of you for the love of all that is Dragonball to watch the episode "Heart of the Prince" if you in anywaybshape or form have even a sliver of an ounce of understanding of Vegetas character then you can in no way shape or form claim that Vegetas character was not handled properly in GT. Please
Please
Please
Please
Please

Go watch this episode.

I don't know why you choose that episode specifically. It's nothing really all that special. If any part of GT handles Vegeta properly it's the time we focus on him during Babys invasion. And it isn't just because he dose the punchy punchy kick kicks, either. It's because we actually see what he has turned out to be and what all that development has lead to and with how he interacts with the other characters instead of him telling us about it in a flashback episode.

The part, during his fight with Super 17, Where he declares the earth his home might be a good moment as well. Though I say "might" because I don't know if that was a dub line or not. I haven't seen GT in japanese.

But there is also the part where he tries to fight Omega by himself while others escape. Which was one of the few moments of the Shadow Dragon arc I thought was any good.

Just lol. Vegeta practically has no character or development going on in Super, sometimes it feels like he's less present than he was in GT. Which isn't true, but it's just the fact that he's treated more as a side character most of the time and times when you would expect him to comment or say something he just says nothing. GT Vegeta had a lot more personality, and it felt like his own continuation from DBZ, even if he wasn't involved in the story nearly enough. In Super he has no character. Sometimes I wonder if these people trashing GT so hard even watched it aside from a few battles.

Super Vegeta has plenty of personality when the show chooses to focus on him. It may not be the way you would have liked it to be handled, and even find the GT version to be better and that's fine, I can see the argument for that very clearly, But he is anything but a side character with a blank slate.

[MaskedRider]

GT is more of a worthy continuation in my eyes. The show is plagued with problems but if nothing else they handled the characters much, much better than Super has

You gotta be kidding me. Vegeta was so utterly butchered in GT that it was painful to even watch his scenes. His development in Super was much, much better. Can't speak for the other chars though

How do you figure? At the end of the Buu fight Vegeta finally admits that Goku will always be better than him, and he finally learns to put aside his hatred of him. In GT, this character trait is further emphasized by showing that Vegeta is no longer Goku's rival but instead his friend, and it is continued development from how Vegeta acted at the end of the Buu saga and in EoZ.

Super completely undoes all the development Vegeta goes through in the Buu arc and immediately has him become Goku's rival again. All that Buu saga development was literally thrown right out the window. Vegeta has received development in Super particularly during the Future Trunks arc, but it is not any kind of logical development that stems from Z.

I disagree. From what I know of how Vegeta is in Super I would argue his characterization is continuing off of what he said about Goku. In Battle of Gods he respects Goku's newfound strength, he trains with Goku in RoF and in the U6 arc with complimenting Goku in how he seems to be always one step ahead of him, telling Black off for disrespecting what makes Goku strong and while pummeling him. You also have to keep in mind that Vegeta and Goku are Saiyans and wouldn't think as normal humans do so its understandable for Vegeta wanting to keep up with Goku, if I recall correctly he says he needs Goku to motivate him. This isn't to say GT did him wrong. He may insult Goku and call him stupid but that IS Vegeta, if anything in the context of Super its playful banter vs hateful rivalry.

[Asura]

You gotta be kidding me. Vegeta was so utterly butchered in GT that it was painful to even watch his scenes. His development in Super was much, much better. Can't speak for the other chars though

How do you figure? At the end of the Buu fight Vegeta finally admits that Goku will always be better than him, and he finally learns to put aside his hatred of him. In GT, this character trait is further emphasized by showing that Vegeta is no longer Goku's rival but instead his friend, and it is continued development from how Vegeta acted at the end of the Buu saga and in EoZ.

Super completely undoes all the development Vegeta goes through in the Buu arc and immediately has him become Goku's rival again. All that Buu saga development was literally thrown right out the window. Vegeta has received development in Super particularly during the Future Trunks arc, but it is not any kind of logical development that stems from Z.

I disagree. From what I know of how Vegeta is in Super I would argue his characterization is continuing off of what he said about Goku. In Battle of Gods he respects Goku's newfound strength, he trains with Goku in RoF and in the U6 arc with complimenting Goku in how he seems to be always one step ahead of him, telling Black off for disrespecting what makes Goku strong and while pummeling him. You also have to keep in mind that Vegeta and Goku are Saiyans and wouldn't think as normal humans do so its understandable for Vegeta wanting to keep up with Goku, if I recall correctly he says he needs Goku to motivate him. This isn't to say GT did him wrong. He may insult Goku and call him stupid but that IS Vegeta, if anything in the context of Super its playful banter vs hateful rivalry.

You're still ignoring the entirety of the Buu saga development.

[sintzu]

At the end of the Buu fight Vegeta finally admits that Goku will always be better than him, and he finally learns to put aside his hatred of him. In GT, this character trait is further emphasized by showing that Vegeta is no longer Goku's rival but instead his friend, and it is continued development from how Vegeta acted at the end of the Buu saga and in EoZ.

Super completely undoes all the development Vegeta goes through in the Buu arc and immediately has him become Goku's rival again. All that Buu saga development was literally thrown right out the window. Vegeta has received development in Super particularly during the Future Trunks arc, but it is not any kind of logical development that stems from Z.

When Super starts he brought up what he said about Goku being #1 but also said it didn't mean he was going to sit back and watch it go on which is in line with Vegeta's character. In GT Vegeta had completely given up fighting, he didn't even have Ssj3 even though he had 15 years to reach it which doesn't line up with his character considering he's a pure blooded Saiyan. Just because he knows Goku is better doesn't mean he's going to give up everything that he lived for.

You're still ignoring the entirety of the Buu saga development.

His speach to Black came from the respect he found for Goku in the Buu arc.

I like an ending that implies Goku and friends will have many more adventures like the ending of Z (the Uub thing is its own separate problem).

My main issue is with Uub. The ending was a bit too open for me, I would've liked something more definative, not killing everyone off like what GT did but something a bit more closed off.

[wolflonnie]

The thing is, their rivarly went from an unhealthy obsession (from Vegeta) to a very acceptable friendly rivarly. Heck, even Goku now takes kinda more seriously Vegeta than in the past, because of this.
Vegeta was a madman in the past, he would literally obliterate people just to have a shot at fighting Goku on equal grounds. Nowadays, he even neglects training for his wife and daughter, which is admirable.
The only problem I have with him is when he acts all hot-headed in the ToP. But, overall, he has developped in a very intelligent way.

[PsionicWarrior]

That's because all of this is Toei canon to which GT is a part of. The only Toriyama canon would be his original manga and whatever he designs,writes, or outlines would which include both Super or GT things he's written meaning they exist in his imagined universes. However what we are getting on our screens is Toei canon.

If you want want to say what is and isn't canon then you're going to need to be very specific about your definitions.

You can't put GT on same level than Super just because Toriyama drew a few designs in it or allowed its production, even if Toriyama actually wanted GT to be canon he still didn't write it lol
And looking at the event, he can't consider GT to be canon because of BoG and that should close the debate, sorry but 'Toei canon' is a nonsense lol

But I also think all this belongs in another thread, I only meant to do a joke comment and I feel we're derailing the thread a bit lol

[MaskedRider]

How do you figure? At the end of the Buu fight Vegeta finally admits that Goku will always be better than him, and he finally learns to put aside his hatred of him. In GT, this character trait is further emphasized by showing that Vegeta is no longer Goku's rival but instead his friend, and it is continued development from how Vegeta acted at the end of the Buu saga and in EoZ.

Super completely undoes all the development Vegeta goes through in the Buu arc and immediately has him become Goku's rival again. All that Buu saga development was literally thrown right out the window. Vegeta has received development in Super particularly during the Future Trunks arc, but it is not any kind of logical development that stems from Z.

I disagree. From what I know of how Vegeta is in Super I would argue his characterization is continuing off of what he said about Goku. In Battle of Gods he respects Goku's newfound strength, he trains with Goku in RoF and in the U6 arc with complimenting Goku in how he seems to be always one step ahead of him, telling Black off for disrespecting what makes Goku strong and while pummeling him. You also have to keep in mind that Vegeta and Goku are Saiyans and wouldn't think as normal humans do so its understandable for Vegeta wanting to keep up with Goku, if I recall correctly he says he needs Goku to motivate him. This isn't to say GT did him wrong. He may insult Goku and call him stupid but that IS Vegeta, if anything in the context of Super its playful banter vs hateful rivalry.

You're still ignoring the entirety of the Buu saga development.

Elaborate?

[Saturnine]

I am aware of the Buu arc development, but it doesn't mean it was desirable for Vegeta's character. Not to mention Toriyama put in a revised ending to the manga in the Kanzenban edition where Vegeta still says he's going to catch up to Goku one day and defeat him. That alone should be a basis for subsequent stories with Goku and Vegeta, and Super built off it perfectly, and as intended.

In GT Vegeta's pride is all but gone - for instance he doesn't even show the slightest annoyance after being saved by Goku at the end of the Baby arc, instead he SMILES IN GRATITUDE. Yeah, get fucked, this isn't goddamn Vegeta. And then, in the Shadow Dragon arc, despite reportedly equalling Goku in strength, Vegeta still acts like his subordinate and sings his praises all the time, while defering to his lead in battle.

Whether or not you think this characterization for Vegeta is justified, or you consider it "character development", I have no idea how in the world could you think this is somehow a preferable change for Vegeta's character, how is he better for it. Why do so many people think abandoning his pride and "learning his place" makes him a better character? It's Vegeta's unyielding pride and endless defiance that make him such a great character! Not to mention that he would never have risen to the heights he's achieved in Super now if he had just decided to call it quits on his rivalry with Kakarot. Furthermore you could still argue that admitting that Goku was his better >for the time being< helped him grow, as he was no longer motivated by anger and frustration, but rather by grudging respect and admiration for Goku.

I would have agreed about the "Buu saga development being ignored" if Vegeta was still inferior to Goku like he was from the Cell arc until Majin Vegeta. In that case, Vegeta would still have been deluding himself that he can ever surpass Goku. But in the actual show, he can and indeed does equal Goku most of the time, sometimes even getting the edge over him. He's not delusional at all, and perfectly capable of achieving his goal. In that case, forcing him to take the back seat and become Goku's yes man like he was in GT would have simply felt out of place.

[LowRyder2005]

I am aware of the Buu arc development, but it doesn't mean it was desirable for Vegeta's character. Not to mention Toriyama put in a revised ending to the manga in the Kanzenban edition where Vegeta still says he's going to catch up to Goku one day and defeat him. That alone should be a basis for subsequent stories with Goku and Vegeta, and Super built off it perfectly, and as intended.

In GT Vegeta's pride is all but gone - for instance he doesn't even show the slightest annoyance after being saved by Goku at the end of the Baby arc, instead he SMILES IN GRATITUDE. Yeah, get fucked, this isn't goddamn Vegeta. And then, in the Shadow Dragon arc, despite reportedly equalling Goku in strength, Vegeta still acts like his subordinate and sings his praises all the time, while defering to his lead in battle.

Whether or not you think this characterization for Vegeta is justified, or you consider it "character development", I have no idea how in the world could you think this is somehow a preferable change for Vegeta's character, how is he better for it. Why do so many people think abandoning his pride and "learning his place" makes him a better character? It's Vegeta's unyielding pride and endless defiance that make him such a great character! Not to mention that he would never have risen to the heights he's achieved in Super now if he had just decided to call it quits on his rivalry with Kakarot. Furthermore you could still argue that admitting that Goku was his better >for the time being< helped him grow, as he was no longer motivated by anger and frustration, but rather by grudging respect and admiration for Goku.

I would have agreed about the "Buu saga development being ignored" if Vegeta was still inferior to Goku like he was from the Cell arc until Majin Vegeta. In that case, Vegeta would still have been deluding himself that he can ever surpass Goku. But in the actual show, he can and indeed does equal Goku most of the time, sometimes even getting the edge over him. He's not delusional at all, and perfectly capable of achieving his goal. In that case, forcing him to take the back seat and become Goku's yes man like he was in GT would have simply felt out of place.

Uhm... No offense, but as someone who feels neither the Kanzenban, nor Super nor GT have "ignored" Vegeta's evolution into a "rival and comrade" from his historical "evil blood knight" archetype, all I see is a bunch of ... well, little overreactions here and there? And probably a shade of prejudice in what can make up for good characterization. I also fear you might be confusing "pride" with "throwing tantrums" and with Vegeta's inability to rationalize pretty much anything every single time someone surpassed him back in Dragon Ball, comboed with his obsessive-compulsive tendencies that get ultimately get dispelled during the course of the Buu arc.

Besides, I never had the impression he was Goku's "yes-man" or this softie we're talking about here; in fact, I think he's even a little more hard-boiled than Super!Vegeta, courtesy of GT's writing. He clearly holds a susbtantial love for Earth and his friends and family now, but he also laughs at the idea he'd have some qualms about destroying Gohan's body if it meant killing Baby; he shows no regret for his ancestors' gratuitous destruction of the Tsufurus and states they deserved to die because they were weak. I couldn't ever see Super!Vegeta keeping these anti-heroic traits.

Of course, we can all agree that Vegeta is different in GT and that most of his flamboyant traits subsided, not like it's this absurd evolution since he was getting old and finally embracing the lifestyle of an Earthling, but I think most of your examples feel rather extreme.

[Master Xar]

How do you figure? At the end of the Buu fight Vegeta finally admits that Goku will always be better than him, and he finally learns to put aside his hatred of him. In GT, this character trait is further emphasized by showing that Vegeta is no longer Goku's rival but instead his friend, and it is continued development from how Vegeta acted at the end of the Buu saga and in EoZ.

Super completely undoes all the development Vegeta goes through in the Buu arc and immediately has him become Goku's rival again. All that Buu saga development was literally thrown right out the window. Vegeta has received development in Super particularly during the Future Trunks arc, but it is not any kind of logical development that stems from Z.

I disagree. From what I know of how Vegeta is in Super I would argue his characterization is continuing off of what he said about Goku. In Battle of Gods he respects Goku's newfound strength, he trains with Goku in RoF and in the U6 arc with complimenting Goku in how he seems to be always one step ahead of him, telling Black off for disrespecting what makes Goku strong and while pummeling him. You also have to keep in mind that Vegeta and Goku are Saiyans and wouldn't think as normal humans do so its understandable for Vegeta wanting to keep up with Goku, if I recall correctly he says he needs Goku to motivate him. This isn't to say GT did him wrong. He may insult Goku and call him stupid but that IS Vegeta, if anything in the context of Super its playful banter vs hateful rivalry.

You're still ignoring the entirety of the Buu saga development.

What does admitting your rival is better than you mean he still won't try to surpass him? I think people overblown Vegeta's line in the fight with Buu, it very much doesn't mean he is just going to lie back and accept that Goku is his better forever, more being able to accept the fact that Goku is better without throwing a genocidal hissy fit or calling him as "below him", I don't see how that makes Vegeta completely drop catching up to Goku as his motivation.

He just isn't calling Goku as a "low-class clown" sure he calls Goku an idiot here and there, but like people said it's mostly just banter, I like Super's approach in making it a more subtle change than just going to full-on giving up Goku as a motivation because he still has adjusting to do with his family before he can consider them his main motivation to fight rather than Goku.

There are different ways to interpret the development Vegeta got in that saga and multiple ways to bounce off of it, and for the new series I feel it was best for them to make it subtle namely in the 10 year gap.

[TheMikado]

That's because all of this is Toei canon to which GT is a part of. The only Toriyama canon would be his original manga and whatever he designs,writes, or outlines would which include both Super or GT things he's written meaning they exist in his imagined universes. However what we are getting on our screens is Toei canon.

If you want want to say what is and isn't canon then you're going to need to be very specific about your definitions.

You can't put GT on same level than Super just because Toriyama drew a few designs in it or allowed its production, even if Toriyama actually wanted GT to be canon he still didn't write it lol
And looking at the event, he can't consider GT to be canon because of BoG and that should close the debate, sorry but 'Toei canon' is a nonsense lol

But I also think all this belongs in another thread, I only meant to do a joke comment and I feel we're derailing the thread a bit lol

Look, I'll break this down succinctly.

The title of the thread is: "Do you think DBS is a worthy continuation of DB and DBZ?"

Your argument is that GT cannot be considered "canon" because the same level of involvement by writing the mangas is not in GT.
Therefore Super also falls under this category as the same level of involvement such as writing a manga, script, panels, etc. IS NOT THERE.
The producer specifically said that his outline for the TOP was barebones. Thus my question to you is WHAT IS CANON?
Is it anything Toriyama writes? Is it anything he's involved with? What percentage? 5% 10% How do you measure that.

Super is NOT on the same level of involvement to DB or DBZ so with that said, by your own logic it CANNOT be canon and therefore, by your measurements which focus on canonicity rather than content, also cannot be considered a "worthy successor" or "canon". Either.

Until you can give a hard definition to measure your idea of "canon" by in terms of what makes a worthy successor, then I have to assume you also feel Super is not a worthy successor because of Toriyama's reduced role and involvement in it. Please feel free to explain what level of involvement would make something "canon" enough to be considered a "worthy continuation".

[TheMikado]

I am aware of the Buu arc development, but it doesn't mean it was desirable for Vegeta's character. Not to mention Toriyama put in a revised ending to the manga in the Kanzenban edition where Vegeta still says he's going to catch up to Goku one day and defeat him. That alone should be a basis for subsequent stories with Goku and Vegeta, and Super built off it perfectly, and as intended.

In GT Vegeta's pride is all but gone - for instance he doesn't even show the slightest annoyance after being saved by Goku at the end of the Baby arc, instead he SMILES IN GRATITUDE. Yeah, get fucked, this isn't goddamn Vegeta. And then, in the Shadow Dragon arc, despite reportedly equalling Goku in strength, Vegeta still acts like his subordinate and sings his praises all the time, while defering to his lead in battle.

Whether or not you think this characterization for Vegeta is justified, or you consider it "character development", I have no idea how in the world could you think this is somehow a preferable change for Vegeta's character, how is he better for it. Why do so many people think abandoning his pride and "learning his place" makes him a better character? It's Vegeta's unyielding pride and endless defiance that make him such a great character! Not to mention that he would never have risen to the heights he's achieved in Super now if he had just decided to call it quits on his rivalry with Kakarot. Furthermore you could still argue that admitting that Goku was his better >for the time being< helped him grow, as he was no longer motivated by anger and frustration, but rather by grudging respect and admiration for Goku.

I would have agreed about the "Buu saga development being ignored" if Vegeta was still inferior to Goku like he was from the Cell arc until Majin Vegeta. In that case, Vegeta would still have been deluding himself that he can ever surpass Goku. But in the actual show, he can and indeed does equal Goku most of the time, sometimes even getting the edge over him. He's not delusional at all, and perfectly capable of achieving his goal. In that case, forcing him to take the back seat and become Goku's yes man like he was in GT would have simply felt out of place.

Uhm... No offense, but as someone who feels neither the Kanzenban, nor Super nor GT have "ignored" Vegeta's evolution into a "rival and comrade" from his historical "evil blood knight" archetype, all I see is a bunch of ... well, little overreactions here and there? And probably a shade of prejudice in what can make up for good characterization. I also fear you might be confusing "pride" with "throwing tantrums" and with Vegeta's inability to rationalize pretty much anything every single time someone surpassed him back in Dragon Ball, comboed with his obsessive-compulsive tendencies that get ultimately get dispelled during the course of the Buu arc.

Besides, I never had the impression he was Goku's "yes-man" or this softie we're talking about here; in fact, I think he's even a little more hard-boiled than Super!Vegeta, courtesy of GT's writing. He clearly holds a susbtantial love for Earth and his friends and family now, but he also laughs at the idea he'd have some qualms about destroying Gohan's body if it meant killing Baby; he shows no regret for his ancestors' gratuitous destruction of the Tsufurus and states they deserved to die because they were weak. I couldn't ever see Super!Vegeta keeping these anti-heroic traits.

Of course, we can all agree that Vegeta is different in GT and that most of his flamboyant traits subsided, not like it's this absurd evolution since he was getting old and finally embracing the lifestyle of an Earthling, but I think most of your examples feel rather extreme.

Exactly, this is why I hated Super's Vegeta because he was constantly getting internalizing Goku surpassing him. I never expected Vegeta to stop training and he never does in GT. But Vegeta STILL has his PRIDE in GT. He's not going to the gym to workout with Goku and certainly would never spend years hanging out with him daily. If Vegeta is going to beat Goku, he's going to do it on his own without Goku's "help". The idea of Vegeta being mad at Goku for saving him is so foolish because he literally cried and beg Goku to defeat Frieza, it's not like he hasn't been happy to accept his help in battle even when they were still somewhat enemies.

GT Vegeta also doesn't tag after Goku on his adventures because he doesn't feel a need to. He's got better things to do, its great, its refreshing. He still takes offense when enemies compare him and Goku because he will always have his pride, but he can put it aside for the greater good in the end. Vegeta also has a better sense of humor without being silly. My favorite exchange was when Vegeta asks Goten about him noticing shaving his mustache. Of all the people in all the DB series, he was probably the one Vegeta would have had the least interaction with. He's never fought in a battle side by side with him or even said two worlds to him that I know of.
But he's clearly developed some sort of interaction with him its refreshing. He's still grumpy because that's his personality but not constantly brooding.

[PsionicWarrior]

...

Yes, we are indeed speaking of two different things simultaneously. No, I first said I consider Super a worthy successor because of the content, this has nothing to do with canon or not. Then, on a side topic and on a reply to someone else mentioning GT, I said I Super is canon while GT isn't because Toriyama is directly involved in Super and wasn't in GT (sorry a few drawings with a lost note doesn't count), also because we had freaking Battle of Gods lol
Our main debate is not on the topic at hand mate lol