Dragon Ball Super: A Personal Assessment

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.
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Lord Beerus
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Dragon Ball Super: A Personal Assessment

Post by Lord Beerus » Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:03 pm

I made a very lengthy post about my feelings with regard to Dragon Ball Super in another thread.

But I wanted to expand a bit on that opinion and rephrase it a bit. As while reading my post, it got me thinking, what is Dragon Ball Super to me? How do I really feel about it in all aspects?

When Dragon Ball Super was first announced, my initial reaction was immense excitement and delirium. Then of course we found out the show would be retelling the BOG and ROF movies. Okay. That's unusual. I mean, the movies worked well enough in their self contained fashion but perhaps some expansion could make the stories even more of an enjoyable experience.

SECTION A - THE MOVIE RETELLINGS

Part 1: Concept and Execution
[spoiler]Firstly, we went through Battle Of Gods, and the results were... mixed. There were elements of the what the movie incorporated that just fell flat execution. The handling of the the Pilaf Gang was just bad. Giving no explanation for how they became young was just dumb. The reveal that Videl was pregnant also felt far less heartwarming and more of a cheap convenience for the sake of a quick joke. The retelling also removed the subtle development Goku had in the movie with him admitting defeat to Beerus but instead had him doing the generic shonen protagonist thing of fighting to end and defying what the antagonist was doing. Ugh. The humble nobility of Goku accepting that someone was superior to him felt so much more natural for Goku's character evolution at that time. When he's beaten, he takes it in his stride and moves on with the notion of how he can improve himself.

But, for what it's worth, I appreciate the attempt to expand more on Beerus' character. Beerus growing frustration with how his battle with Super Saiyan God Goku was developing added that extreme layer personality to the character. He was desperate for a challenge given how long he had reigned without someone being competitive with him on some level and when Super Saiyan God Goku wan't doing it for him he was getting angry. He had dreams and prophecies related to the Super Saiyan God, so it created this subconscious feeling for Beerus as if this was the guy for him to get a challenge from. So when he finally fought Super Saiyan God Goku, from Beeru's perspective, it all crashing down when he actually got to fight the legendary Super Saiyan God to know that it wouldn't the thrill he had been hoping for with how much he was dominating Super Saiyan God Goku. I enjoyed that underlining feature of Beerus' character development and it actually makes the initial battle with him and Goku on King Kai's Planet feel more significant to building up to that development of Beerus' character. I suppose the narrative in the retelling of Battle Of Gods felt... grander? I guess with how much there is more emphasis on Beerus' role as a Hakaishin and how much he's significant to the scope of the universe, there just felt more at stake and more to take into consideration with Goku fighting Beerus. Miscellaneous elements like the animation, art-style and music were done better in the movie.

With regards to the Resurrection F retelling... I enjoyed the subtle changes like Goku getting shot in is base form instead of SSJB form, Goku not wanting to kill Freeza because he's think not worth it and not because he wants to fight him again, Freeza not offering Vegeta to work by side again if he kills Goku (which was a really dumb thing to happen in the movie when you think about it), Vegeta just brute forcing his way to Super Saiyan Blue like good ol' Vegeta would in the past and the battle against Freeza's army is more logical with how quickly there were defeated.

Although the trade-off is so not worth it.[/spoiler]

Part 2: The Fatal Flaws
[spoiler]In the attempt to make the narrative seem wider and more intertwined in comparison to the movie, the Battle Of Gods retelling in Super gave us the mother of all Dragon ball retcons with Beerus being the one who ordered Freeza to destory Planet Vegeta. Of all the things that Dragon Ball Super has introduced so far, this is the fucking nadir in terms of making what you knew about Dragon Ball seem less grand or significant. What was the mentality behind this decision? I understand that they want to include Beerus in as much lore as possible to make his stance in the universe more significant, but have some fucking boundaries. The revelation that Beerus told Freeza to blow up Planet Vegeta just kills any sort of irony or drama the Freeza arc had, and it undermines all of the antagonism that Freeza had towards the Saiyans and Bardock, Goku and Vegeta had to Freeza. And that by default make their stories with Freeza much less meaningful. I vastly much prefer the implications that Beerus perhaps had planned to destroy Planet Vegeta himself, than Super just outright stating that Beerus did tell Freeza to blow it up. Ironically, I love Beerus, and one of the reasons I love the character so much is because how much he contributes to the universe and making it feel larger than it is. But that was just really unnecessary on Super's part and it drags down the Battle Of Gods arc as a whole. They should have kept it vague and ambiguous like they did in the movie.

Then we go onto the Resurrection F retelling. Ah man, what was all this about? If you want talk about wasted potential in Dragon Ball, this arc will live in infamy for it. As bare bones as the plot for Resurrection F was, it was a fun little throwaway movie that thrived in its confined setting. And I was actually looking forward to this retelling because there was so much more the movie could have done with the premise but seemed afraid to. Unfortunately, the retelling followed the same suit of the movie and did nothing to expand on its premise.

One of the great things about the Z-Fighters taking on Freeza's army in Resurrection F was that is was less about the Saiyans and more about the earthlings in terms of defending Earth in Goku and Vegeta's absence, but it that wasn't to be the case with Super. Instead we get Jaco sitting out of the whole damn fight, Krillin suddenly shitting himself and Gohan just... I don't even know what what to call was he went through during that arc. I still wonder to this day what happened with Gohan during the ROF arc. One second he seems like he was about to get another rage boost (yay?) and is gonna do some damage, and then... he just passes out. And Gohan has a look on his face like he saw a ghost or was possessed by a demon. Then in comes Goku to save his son's ass... again. And to make matters worse, his second wind was just basically used as a signal for Goku and Vegeta to IT to Earth. So the scenario with him getting a more powerful was just a red herring. I'll take about Gohan's and Krillin's character later because those are cans of worms that really need to be discussed.

I was also very disappointed that with Freeza's army were haplessly killed when Freeza was just powering up. I didn't like in the movie how Freeza just killed all of his army and it felt an even bigger waste in the retelling. Freeza shouldn't have even bothered to bring Tagoma and Sorbet to Earth if that was how things were gonna go down. At very least we got to see Tagoma kick ass in Super, when he didn't and should have, in the Resurrection F movie. But in the end he was wasted for the sake of Ginyu stealing his body. On top of that, they wasted Ginyu as well by having him be fodder for Vegeta to blast away almost immediately upon his arrival. So they wasted Tagoma for a gag and then quickly killed the gag. Ugh. I'd make a mention of Gotenks, but why bother? His presence in the arc was meaningless. He literally fused for a dick joke. Oh, and Piccolo died. But... Dragon Balls, yo. You know the deal.

Oh, and you know Vegeta brute forcing his way to Super Saiyan Blue? That came at the cost of learning anything about how God ki works. No expansion of the Super Saiyan God transformation. No deeper look in the structure of Ki. No further insight in the mechanics of the Super Saiyan form. Nothing. Just Vegeta doing some push ups, sit ups and crunches and he's becomes SSJB. Fucks sake Super. You can't just introduce a concept like God ki, and have the main character(s) training being centred around it, and not do anything with the concept beyond stating that you have it prevent your ki from leaking out. What the hell does that even mean?[/spoiler]

Part 3: TV vs Movies
[spoiler]Overall, I think not having the knowledge of what happened in the Battle Of Gods or Resurrection F movies works better in making you appreciate the retellings. With how much the condensed narrative is better in consuming the material, especially in regards to the pacing of battles like SSJG Goku vs Beerus and the Z-Fighters taking on Freeza's army, I can't in all good conscious say that the retellings works on a coherent level of expanding the plot of the movies or even working well as substitutes for the story of the respective movies they retold. They just feel like empty and artificially padded out material that doesn't even want to take of gamble of taking a significantly different approach of the fashion of which the movies progressed with their narrative.[/spoiler]

SECTION B - THE NEW MATERIAL

Part 1: Little Big Universes
[spoiler]Now we get to the "new" material. :P

The Champa/Universe 6 arc was really entertaining, despite it basically being a throwaway tournament. But it highlighted the aspect of Dragon Ball as whole, not just Super specifically, that's always been so underwhelming and that it's world building and lore. What do we know about Universe 6 once the arc is over? We know that is an assassin, some good Saiyans, another Freeza, a metalman and some bear who can absorb damage. Hmm. I'm certain there could much more to that universe than just that. I mean, I'm not looking for spin off show in Universe 6, but give us a glimpse of what Cabba does. What is Botamo's purpose? There is an entire race of people like Magetta. Give me something to latch onto with them. Like, how do they operate? This is an even bigger issue with the latest arc, the Tournament Of Power.

This issue is encapsulated later with the unnecessary "28 planets of mortals" tidbit provided in Episode 83. I mean, it can work given the damage the Universe has gone through with Majin Boo, Freeza and the Saiyans, but... did we really need to know this? Thankfully this bit of "lore" is easier to swallow given the precedence provided by Jaco himself stating that there aren't many planets in the universe with life on then in the Jaco The Galactic Patrolman manga.

Some characters work better when they don't have a build up as it can create mystique and intrigue going into the main event. But at the same token, you do need to, on some substantial and tangible degree, get invested into at least some of the participants taking part in the tournament. Of course, developing 80 characters, to the point where you're truly invested in their survival and have some kind of emotive reaction to their demise, is almost down right impossible without taking a incredible amount of downtime before the tournament happens.[/spoiler]

Part 2: What's The Deal With Power Levels?
[spoiler]Now I wanna talk about something relating to the Future Trunks arc. The first ten episodes were really, really good. The setup was great, there was a lot of mystery, Goku Black was an awesome villain, Zamasu was wonderfully developed and there was constant aura of tension. Then Episode 57 happened and marked the beginning (for me) of when Super would take major liberties for the sake of giving characters their moments in the episode, as we see SSJ Future Trunks sends Super Saiyan Rose Goku Black, a character would had beaten up SSJB Vegeta in his base form, flying into a building. Oh man. Now I like that Dragon Ball Super doesn't go down the conventional route of power scaling and battle powers like Z did. I mean, Super is already dealing with major complaints that Goku and Vegeta do everything the show, but this approach is very much a double edged sword because it's gonna can create issues with determining how strong certain characters may be. And that's a fundamental aspect in the show that can take you out of moment or the narrative as a whole. Because if you can't tell who is stronger than who then you're gonna feel conflicted with how much you can get invested into events with the story.

For me personally, power consistency doesn't matter much to me if the story itself is uninteresting and doesn't experiment with other members of the cast to bring something unique to the plot. If a shake up of the status quo is needed to make the narrative more intriguing and have we have to break some non-established and already contradictory power hierarchy "rules" to give the supporting cast their moment in the sun, while also bringing back an essence of the teamwork and strategy that has been lost in Dragon Ball for so many years, then so be it. The Tournament Of Power has/is currently doing this for me and has made Dragon Ball Super all the more entertaining for me.

I'd much rather have an interesting show with an unorthodox approach to power, strategy and teamwork, where all the cast feel worthwhile, than just a run-of-the-mill fighting show where you know the supporting can't do anything and the main character(s) are untouchable and do most of the heavy lifting. We already went down route during a large portion of Z and practically all of GT. So having guys like Roshi, Tenshinhan and Krillin being brought back into prominence is a very welcome direction to me. Super wants everyone in the team to be super strong and awesome and not feel like "jobbers" or dead weight compared to Goku and Vegeta and contribute something of importance to the plot. For me, it make things way interesting, and props to Super for being bold with this approach. But there's nothing wrong with wanting consistency in power strength and everyone has to right to call bullshit on Dragon Ball Super's power level shenanigans.[/spoiler]

Part 3: Bringing In The Whole Crew
[spoiler]The fact that there's more of an emphasis of an ensemble cast, rather than the Saiyans doing everything in Super, is very enjoyable to see and I really want them to continue with this direction. Even in a arc like Future Trunks arc, characters like Future Mai, Future Yajirobe and the remaining earthlings of Future Trunks' world were essential to the plot. Of course I wouldn't mind, and really openly encourage, Super to go into a bit more detail with how some of the supporting cast get stronger. But's it nothing that will enhance or decrease my enjoyment of the show. As I've already said, how consistent the battle powers are have never been an issue to me. I'm more interested in the show providing major moments for characters outside of the Saiyans, aliens and Gods, and Super was doing that for me. Super wanted be its own beast of show. For better or for worse, it didn't want to reside on the linearity that only the Saiyans could get shit done. And to be honest, I have an immense amount of respect for show for taking that approach.[/spoiler]

Part 4: Show, Don't Tell
[spoiler]Another thing relating to the Future Trunks arc that I believe was a problem that was very glaring was with Dragon Ball Super also absolutely abusing the narrative concept of "show, don't tell". And it comes back to another point I have with how much characters get absurdly strong with little to no context as we saw in Episode 57. Dragon Ball has never had a detailed story, and the world building itself isn't all it's cracked up to be, but with Super, especially with the anime, more times than often, the show is fine with just taking the option of not bothering to provide any kind of detail or background or tidbit in scenarios where it could desperately need it. The Future Trunks arc, as much I really like the arc, was the worst offender of this. Elements like how Goku Black got much stronger with every fight, Future Trunks raging Super Saiyan form and how Zamasu merged with the universe were left vague and unexplained. The Genki Dama Sword is the nadir of the nonsense Dragon Ball Super can produce. Yeah, it looks pretty nice. And the meaning behind it is sincere given the nature of the arc it happens in. But you're ultimately left asking, "Okay, how did Future Trunks do that?"

There have always been instances in the franchise where events have happened and forms had been achieved off-screen and you think to yourself, "How did that happened?" But would could always look back the manga or anime and in most instances you'd get a throwaway line or flashback or filler moment that could at least provide some form of context to the fill the void of information that was needed to understand the scenario. In Super, we barely, most of the time that doesn't happen. And some explanations we do get just makes thing more complicated. It really frustrates me. Some episodes really make me feel like I'm watching GT again. The show can only rule on "Rule of Cool" and "Rule of Symbolism" so much before they have to take step back and actually explain how some scenarios unfold.[/spoiler]

SECTION C - THE MANGA

Part 1: What Is The Manga?
[spoiler]Man, I've talked too much about the Future Trunks arc. Let's talk about something else. Let's talk about the manga. Long story short, it's very good. Like very good. And in relation to the anime, since a comparison will be inevitable, I like the manga a hell of lot for its more consistent art style, streamlined story and workable power scale.

Considering that the manga is basically a promotion tool for the anime, the fact that it manages to handle some aspects of the story better than the anime is something that truly had to be admired for what is basically a glorified advertisement of a show that was blatantly created for the purpose of pimping out more toys and cards. Toyotaro is very much a fan of the franchise and his love for Dragon Ball overflows into the manga with his call backs, homages, uses of gags and how he overall crafts and re-envisions the plot outline from Toriyama.[/spoiler]

Part 2: Manga vs Anime (Whoever wins, we lose)
[spoiler]But it comes at the cost of actual character development, or in some cases, very rushed character development, and breather periods which helped the story feel more engrossing and less rushed. This was a big issue with the manga's interpretation of the events of the Future Trunks arc. (Fuck! I'm talking about that arc again!)

Over the course of that arc in the manga, nothing really resonated with me. I didn't feel anything. Not sadness or anger or happiness. I just feel indifferent to all of the events. There just wasn't enough for me to personally invest into the manga's interpretation of the events of the Future Trunks arc. The anime gave me more incentives to get personally invested into and make me attached to Future Trunks story. Whether it be Haru, Maki, Earth's Resistance or Future Yajirobe, the anime gave me a reason to care more what occurs in Future Trunks world because he still had something to fight for and is seen as a beacon of hope for those who still remain on Earth to look up to. It makes the Genki Dama Sword moment in the anime, while nonsensical in practice, works extremely well in a thematic and conceptual sense because, from the beginning of the arc to the end of the arc, Future Trunks was fighting valiantly for what remained of humanity in his world, and every step of the way, the humans that remained on Earth supported him every time things looked grim and he was looked up as the hope bringer for the world. So I find the idea of the humans that were left, were urging Future Trunks on so much that they innately gave him their power to slain an extreme misanthrope like Merged Zamasu very satisfying and cathartic.

The manga also pulled the major narrative fumble of skipping over Future Bulma's death. And robbed the story of one the most emotional moments of the entire arc. I don't understand why Toyotaro would skim over such a detail like that. It goes back to my point of giving me something to personally feel invested into with the story. The anime played up the nature of her death so well that Future Trunks' PTSD influenced nightmares and hallucinations in the anime feel all the more dramatic and genuine because you personally witnessed the horrific nature of Future Bulma's demise as he did and you can sympathize with him on personal level as you can understand much more the mental trauma he is going through with the circumstances he has had to deal with. These are all small things, but they make such a huge different to how much you attach yourself to his character and care more for his journey beyond a surface level.

Yes, the manga has better pacing, but the overall narrative, despite having much less fat compared to how dragged out the anime can get at times, and especially if you imagine a scenario where the anime doesn't exist, feels so half baked. It just lacks that "wow" factor that the anime gave us at times and it doesn't do enough to make me care for what happens. Having power consistency is one thing, but making me care about the fate of the characters and being personally invested in them is another. And the manga just doesn't cut the mustard for me in that regard in comparison to the anime, despite the anime's many shortcomings in itself.

All that being said, I think the manga and anime do well in complementing each other and cancelling out their weakness and playing up to their strengths and both mediums deserves their fair share of praise and criticism for what they've done well and what they haven't done well.[/spoiler]

SECTION D - AT YOUR OWN DEVICES

Part 1: Have A Break
[spoiler]If there is one area that Dragon Ball Super excels in, it's the downtime episodes. I love the downtime episodes so much. They just work so well in bridging the gap from one arc to the next. It just helps the narrative feel more cohesive and structured. Plus, they're just so much fun. Some episodes just encapsulate Dragon Ball so well with how dense and wacky as well as surprisingly heartfelt they can be. Most of the episodes also provide the perfect balance of world building and character interactions, aspects that Dragon Ball has been historically lackluster in. Something like the main cast playing baseball, Goku losing his ability to use his ki properly or Vegeta wanting to bribe Whis with food to be his pupil should not have been as entertaining as there, but they were great episodes. Some of the most entertaining episodes in all of Super, and in all of Dragon Ball in my opinion, have been the slice-of-life/cooldown episodes. And I think that's where the writers seem to have the most fun and/or are given the most freedom. And it really shows with how even the most trivial concept for a "throwaway" episode can be so entertaining and rich with content.[/spoiler]

Part 2: Too Many Cooks Spoil The Broth
[spoiler]I think the most important thing to take from Super as a whole, from my perspective in regards to its inherits flaws, is that it just doesn't feel like Toriyama's Dragon Ball with how the plot is handled at times in the anime or the manga. It feels like someone else's Dragon Ball. And it's made more apparent with how characters can act widely different in every other episode or in every other main story arc in the anime. Much like Dragon Ball GT, Dragon Ball Super is in this weird area where to an extent it looks like Toriyama's Dragon Ball, it tells a story like Toriyama's Dragon Ball, but it just doesn't feel like Toriyama's Dragon Ball. I think the biggest reason for all these differences is that Super is ultimately a product tackled by many writers to expand on the baseline plot provided by Toriyama while also manufacturing his charm and spirit that was very much apparent when he was writing the manga on a weekly basis, even when he going through major burnout in the later stages of the Majin Boo arc. In the original story (the manga), character arcs began and ended respectfully and were generally well told. Big events had much proper build. And everything about the narrative of the original manga intertwined a lot better, even when nonsensical moments happen. Nonsensical moments happen in Super but they sometimes don't feel organic to the plot. Super can sometimes have build up to big moments and sometimes it doesn't. Characters arcs seem to go on continuously before being reset. The last two points are something I actually need to talk about in-depth because it becomes more of an issue for characters like Gohan and Krillin, but especially with Krillin, when I re-watch certain episodes.[/spoiler]

Part 3: The Anime's Indecisiveness
[spoiler]Let's dissect Gohan first. Literally few episodes after the events of Resurrection F we see Gohan and Piccolo and with the first Universe vs Universe style of tournament in Dragon Ball coming up, and you'd think this would be the perfect opportunity to display how much Gohan has improved. But, no it doesn't happen. And you're left wondering whether the promise made by Gohan to be become stronger to protect his loved one is just a going to be proverbial carrot dangling just above the heads of fans of Gohan's character. Then his progress seems to come to complete halt as in the Future Trunks arc, even after talking to Future Trunks himself, he's not involved in the slightest in any of the events apart from bidding Future Trunks farewell at the end of the arc for sentimental moment. And it doesn't make it better when the Gohan himself brings up the fact he didn't ask why Future Trunks came back to the past. And then you think, they really are not going to do much with his character. Even though the Great Saiyaman/Barry Khan episodes after the Future Trunks were nice, they didn't do much for him. Then in Universal Survival arc, we finally see Gohan actually make some progress in training. And it brings the logical conclusion of Gohan's character arc, with him wanting to become strong again to protect his family. It's made even better that it happens in the preparation for a tournament that has the highest stakes we've ever seen in Dragon Ball. But even then there's the implication that Gohan didn't do much training after the events of the Resurrection F arc.

Now Krillin, what is up with that guy in Super? He shits his pants at fighting Freeza's goons. Then he gets motivated by a third party (Roshi) and regains his fighting spirit to get the job done. That's fine. But then fast forward a couple dozen episodes later and he loses that fighting spirit and spends a two part episode to gain it again and becomes committed to getting stronger to protect his family. Okay, whatever. Then, yet again, we have the implication that Krillin is rusty and out of shape and has to once again regain his confidence and fighting spirit. That's three separate occasions where Krillin's character development was essentially reset. Like... c'mon Super. Just develop the character and move on. Don't do this stop and start shit at such convenience.[/spoiler]

SECTION E - THE OTHER STUFF

Sight and Sound
[spoiler]I just want to quickly touch upon two things before I wrap this "essay" up. The animation and the music. This show is such a roller coaster visually. There are some very high points in terms of animation and art style, but the low points are just... fucking hell. I do think that some of the best animation and art the show has provided ranks among some of the best the franchise has produced prior to the inception of Super. But when Dragon Ball Super has bad animation we get shit like Episode 5 and everything from Episode 24 and 25 which remind us very well that Super had a rough start. The music is also a mixed bag. Some of the tracks are great, other tracks are just terrible and rest are just there. I think the biggest takeaway with regards to the soundtrack is that is doesn't really enhance any scenes in a major way like the DB or Z did. Its just exists. I will say that placement of the music has gotten much better since the Champa arc.[/spoiler]

SECTION F - FINAL THOUGHTS

Part 1: Old vs New
[spoiler]Overall, DB and Z are still much better shows as a whole, there's really no disputing that at this stage. Although DB and Z itself are far from perfect, both shows just have less flaws than Super does and have more high points than Super. Dragon Ball Super itself is a deeply flawed show with several problems on a narrative and production scale, and I can certainly understand why anyone would not like the show. The show overall still has many rough edges with its inconsistent animation, occasionally flat soundtrack, contradictory character writing and the unappealing current Yamamuro artstyle. But despite all that, I really enjoy Dragon Ball Super, warts and all. I think it very much deserves to be seen as a significant pillar to Dragon Ball's larger scale narrative, as I personally think Super shows a lot of promise and can be very engaging even during its most uneventful episodes. And I personally think that some of the best episodes of Super, visually speaking or in terms of writing, are very much comparable to the best the franchise has produced before it.[/spoiler]

Part 2: What is Dragon Ball Super?
[spoiler]Dragon Ball Super is such a peculiar, weird beast of show that trying to assess its truly quality can be quite difficult with how much the show can drop the ball with fresh and unique concept (everything related to God ki and the other universes in the Tournament Of Power) but can also manage to pull a golden rabbit out the hat with ideas that look shit on paper ("Evil" Goku and Freeza being brought back to life again). It's overall lack of internal consistency is responsible for bringing out the best and worst of Dragon Ball as a whole. I mean, just the most recent episode produced was one of the best character driven episodes I've ever seen in Dragon Ball and it was centered around Roshi. The same character that Super also produced one its worst episodes for. It's just so bizarre. I think the best way of describing Dragon Ball Super is like a box of chocolates. You don't know what you're going to get. And that ironically works as the show's major hook, even for those who aren't wholly interested in Super as a concept.

Does it work as a continuation of Dragon Ball and Z? Yeah. I believe Dragon Ball Super has proven itself to be a good show and a nice bridge from DB and DBZ. Does it work as a competent battle shonen anime? In most aspects, yes. I think Dragon Ball Super has earned that nice little niche label of being a fun, run-of-the-mill battle shonen, with some dense and wacky comedy thrown in their from time to time, and the high "highs" and low "lows" that come with most battle shonen anime.

In retrospective, there is always this thought in the back of your head like, "Man, they could have done this or that so much better." But you pretty much get that with every show. I mean, it's now over 100 episodes, and with all the highs and lows, I'm still following Super and eagerly awaiting for the next episode. So that's a good sign.

So... what is Dragon Ball Super to me? It's... good enough. :)[/spoiler]

************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************

(Holy God, this post was absurdly long.)

NOTE: Any edits made are from further proof reading (for spelling and grammar mistakes). However, nothing substantial about the content of the post is changed. So don't worry. :)

NOTE 2: I think, to make this easier to digest to read, I'll split this "essay" up into specific sections.

NOTE3 3: Added a bit more extra content to some sections.
Last edited by Lord Beerus on Mon Aug 06, 2018 1:28 pm, edited 14 times in total.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: A Personal Assessment

Post by GodKaio-Ken » Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:07 pm

I actually read all of this incredibly long post :lol:

If I summed it up as you feeling like DBS sets all the pins up but doesn't knock them down with consistency would that be accurate?

I feel the same way generally.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super: A Personal Assessment

Post by Lord Beerus » Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:12 pm

GodKaio-Ken wrote:If I summed it up as you feeling like DBS sets all the pins up but doesn't knock them down with consistency would that be accurate?
Yeah, it actually would. I'd go even further and say that Dragon Ball Super is more like a scenario where it sets up the pins and hits a strike in the other lane.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super: A Personal Assessment

Post by sintzu » Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:33 pm

:shock:

I've complained a lot about Super and will complain a lot about it in the future but I'm very happy it exists. When I reached the end of Z, I felt like there was more that could've been done (I could say this about anything I like when it ends) so I'm happy that the franchise is back and strong cause it seems like it's going to take every concept imaginable and bring it to life, leaving no room for thinking about DB not fully reaching its potential.

Even Heroes is doing this by going all out with the time patrol concept, giving us more stories about Hell and Dabura, etc.

The new content may not live up to the original's quality but I'm happy they're at least doing something.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super: A Personal Assessment

Post by Duo » Sat Sep 16, 2017 2:04 pm

It took me eight cups of coffee to read all of that. Completely worth it, but now I'm worried about how much caffeine you must have consumed in the process of writing.

There's no way for me to respond to everything, of course. I think you've engaged Super slightly more than I have, because I didn't start watching it regularly until it overtook the manga. Reading the summaries and watching a few clips put me off from the retelling arcs outright. I remain equally appalled by the Beerus/Freeza retcon.

I wish the anime could just do slice-of-life episodes. Gag nonsense has been where the product shines in animation form. I find the manga to handle the main story in a way I appreciate much more, even with the thematic loss you went over in great detail in terms of character development. I can't defend the whole future Bulma scenario, but how did you feel about that being used as a motivation for Vegeta to initiate fusion? That's a really great moment.

The most awkward thing in the Zamasu arc (manga) is the way Trunks' healing power is brought up. I don't mind it as a plot point, but it would have been a touch smoother if he had been intentionally saving the power for a desperate moment (knowing that restoring a Blue would use up all his Ki or something).

I'm pretty relaxed about the whole thing because it's going to be years before we (the fans) have had time to process and contextualize it all.

Edit: Sorry it took me a few days to respond to this. I usually don't do thread resurrections, but this was well worth reading and other people should take the time.

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Lord Beerus
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Re: Dragon Ball Super: A Personal Assessment

Post by Lord Beerus » Sat Sep 16, 2017 6:32 pm

Duo wrote:It took me eight cups of coffee to read all of that. Completely worth it, but now I'm worried about how much caffeine you must have consumed in the process of writing.

There's no way for me to respond to everything, of course. I think you've engaged Super slightly more than I have, because I didn't start watching it regularly until it overtook the manga. Reading the summaries and watching a few clips put me off from the retelling arcs outright. I remain equally appalled by the Beerus/Freeza retcon.

I wish the anime could just do slice-of-life episodes. Gag nonsense has been where the product shines in animation form. I find the manga to handle the main story in a way I appreciate much more, even with the thematic loss you went over in great detail in terms of character development. I can't defend the whole future Bulma scenario, but how did you feel about that being used as a motivation for Vegeta to initiate fusion? That's a really great moment.

The most awkward thing in the Zamasu arc (manga) is the way Trunks' healing power is brought up. I don't mind it as a plot point, but it would have been a touch smoother if he had been intentionally saving the power for a desperate moment (knowing that restoring a Blue would use up all his Ki or something).

I'm pretty relaxed about the whole thing because it's going to be years before we (the fans) have had time to process and contextualize it all.

Edit: Sorry it took me a few days to respond to this. I usually don't do thread resurrections, but this was well worth reading and other people should take the time.
Eight cups of coffee?! :shock: :o Good Lord. :?

I commend you on your dedication to read my post. Thank you so much for spend so much time reading my post.

I apologise in advance for any spelling error or typos that may have appeared into the post. I spent hours putting this post together and I working on this post late into the night so my proofing reading may not have the been the best.

BTW, the speech from Future Trunks to Vegeta about Bulma was nice but felt a bit unnecessary. Especially to serve as motive for Vegeta to fuse with Goku. But the intent was very well founded emotionally given the nature of Future Trunks' relationship with Vegeta and Bulma. I just feel that speech would have carried a bit more weight if we actually witnessed Future Bulma dying.

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