People are getting tired of Goku and here is why

[pacz360]

Being close in power is very vague in this series but is it logical at all for gohan to be anywhere near SSB Goku based on how much he's been training? Yea I guess it is true they don't even keep track of their own power levels one person could be fodder one episode and god level the next.

Did you forget what series this is?

Just because DBZ had a few inconsistencies doesn't mean DBS can just be a free for all where power scaling means nothing. This will never be a good excuse its just a dismissive tactic people use saying DBZ had no scale is just flat out wrong.

In DBZ you can almost always tell who is stronger or more skilled and every power up had at least some explanation. In DBS you really can't. Which can be a good thing in some ways, but then you have endless arguments like this where both sides have good points and no one can agree then maybe they need to be a little more clear.

Characters being inferior to being uber strong the next second Been in the franchise since the beginning

[Lord Beerus]

Did you forget what series this is?

Just because DBZ had a few inconsistencies doesn't mean DBS can just be a free for all where power scaling means nothing. This will never be a good excuse its just a dismissive tactic people use saying DBZ had no scale is just flat out wrong.

In DBZ you can almost always tell who is stronger or more skilled and every power up had at least some explanation. In DBS you really can't. Which can be a good thing in some ways, but then you have endless arguments like this where both sides have good points and no one can agree then maybe they need to be a little more clear.

Characters being inferior to being uber strong the next second Been in the franchise since the beginning

Hell, it becomes a literal plot point from the Saiyan arc and beyond. It become especially bad on Namek when the Saiyans become aware for how broken their biology is and then abuse it to shortcut their ways to monstrous levels of power.

[Zagacious]

Just because DBZ had a few inconsistencies doesn't mean DBS can just be a free for all where power scaling means nothing. This will never be a good excuse its just a dismissive tactic people use saying DBZ had no scale is just flat out wrong.

In DBZ you can almost always tell who is stronger or more skilled and every power up had at least some explanation. In DBS you really can't. Which can be a good thing in some ways, but then you have endless arguments like this where both sides have good points and no one can agree then maybe they need to be a little more clear.

Characters being inferior to being uber strong the next second Been in the franchise since the beginning

Hell, it becomes a literal plot point from the Saiyan arc and beyond. It become especially bad on Namek when the Saiyans become aware for how broken their biology is and then abuse it to shortcut their ways to monstrous levels of power.

That has nothing to do with inconsistencies or it being difficult to tell who is stronger than the other. Characters getting stronger very quickly through battle is not the same as not being able to tell who is stronger. Even if the Saiyan biology zenkai boost is too powerful, it was at least explained and a result of difficult battle makes it somewhat logical. You have characters in Super become stronger between periods of time where they literally aren't doing anything. For example Gohan, who has barely been training but whoever said he is at SSB level now is probably right because him simply observing other fights in Super is enough for a character to gain massive power boosts.

This is the exact type of exaggerating faults of DBZ to excuse anything in DBS that I was referring to. Androids are a lot stronger because they have unlimited endurance, and Saiyans are a lot stronger from Zen kai boosts, but they are both referred to very often so it's not inconsistent or unexplained. It'd be one thing if they are just getting zen kai boosts or getting stronger without even battling, training, or taking damage like they do in Super

[MajinMan]

I find it funny how, as fans, some of us put ourselves in this state of mind where we have to have a favorite character that we worship above all else. Like nothing else matters as long as said character gets to shine or gets screentime. And as soon as someone criticizes or pokes fun at that character, even if it's in a joking manner, they must initiate the defense force and prepare to fire back. It's just something I've come to realize over the past few years.

The problem with that is that I'm not looking for relevance for one specific character. I'm looking for relevance for pretty much ANYONE besides Goku or Vegeta and I'm still unhappy.

I'm not talking about that. I was talking about the people that stick to one character and ignore everything else.

[Hawk9211]

Just because DBZ had a few inconsistencies doesn't mean DBS can just be a free for all where power scaling means nothing. This will never be a good excuse its just a dismissive tactic people use saying DBZ had no scale is just flat out wrong.

In DBZ you can almost always tell who is stronger or more skilled and every power up had at least some explanation. In DBS you really can't. Which can be a good thing in some ways, but then you have endless arguments like this where both sides have good points and no one can agree then maybe they need to be a little more clear.

Characters being inferior to being uber strong the next second Been in the franchise since the beginning

Hell, it becomes a literal plot point from the Saiyan arc and beyond. It become especially bad on Namek when the Saiyans become aware for how broken their biology is and then abuse it to shortcut their ways to monstrous levels of power.

Yeah,I would be extremely mad if saiyans hijack U6 as well.

[Noah]

I want this Goku back, not this clown we have in Super.

We'll never get that again.

So you both have forgotten about this scene, right?

And before talk I'm one of people who most complains about Goku personality in Super. Sure, he is goofier than usual, act more stupidly and lack smarts we know he has, but it's unfair to say he hadn't any moment in-character in the show.

[sintzu]

So you both have forgotten about this scene, right?

We also got that great Roshi scene a few days ago so I may have been wrong but that doesn't change the fact that he acts very inconsistant.

[TBMx]

The way I'd do it:

Goku vs Jiren
Vegeta vs Hit
Frieza vs Toppo

The way they will do it:

Goku vs Jiren
Goku vs Hit
Goku vs Toppo

Vegeta commits seppuku.

[SsjCookie]

The way I'd do it:

Goku vs Jiren
Vegeta vs Hit
Frieza vs Toppo

The way they will do it:

Goku vs Jiren
Goku vs Hit
Goku vs Toppo

Vegeta commits seppuku.

You know...that could actually happen.

[TBMx]

Vegeta acts like a responsible father and stays behind to watch his baby being born. Goku says stuff like who cares? I wasn't there for Chi Chi! Proudly. Yet Goku is being rewarded for his neglect with a new transformation. So I guess the take home message is that paying attention to your wife and children is for suckers, that the "pure" minded people get the reward. Chase after your goal with everything you got. Relationships only hold you back.

[Noah]

You know...that could actually happen.

It would be pretty lame if they did that. I mean we have a team of 10 characters for F's sake, there's no need to put everything in the main characters shoulder.

[Simere]

Vegeta acts like a responsible father and stays behind to watch his baby being born. Goku says stuff like who cares? I wasn't there for Chi Chi! Proudly. Yet Goku is being rewarded for his neglect with a new transformation. So I guess the take home message is that paying attention to your wife and children is for suckers, that the "pure" minded people get the reward. Chase after your goal with everything you got. Relationships only hold you back.

You know damn right. Family's got nothing to do with being a good fighter. Sorry for those who thought being a family man would improve their strength, endurance and technique. Maybe you should love for its own sake, not in the hopes of a reward.

By the way...something I've been wondering about since the manga caused this hubbub: why does it matter if he wasn't there for the birth? It wasn't all that long ago where it was standard for fathers not to be there; why is it all of a sudden the benchmark for good parenting?

Maybe the takeaway is that we shouldn't assign arbitrary meaning to arbitrary cultural norms.

[HeroR]

Vegeta acts like a responsible father and stays behind to watch his baby being born. Goku says stuff like who cares? I wasn't there for Chi Chi! Proudly. Yet Goku is being rewarded for his neglect with a new transformation. So I guess the take home message is that paying attention to your wife and children is for suckers, that the "pure" minded people get the reward. Chase after your goal with everything you got. Relationships only hold you back.

If you want to read it that way, sure. Just as Vegeta's lesson is that it doesn't matter if you used to be a sociopathic mass murderer who did genocide with a huge grin on your face. As long as you become a Z-Fighter, all is forgiven and you even get a hot wife.

[Kanassa]

Vegeta acts like a responsible father and stays behind to watch his baby being born. Goku says stuff like who cares? I wasn't there for Chi Chi! Proudly. Yet Goku is being rewarded for his neglect with a new transformation. So I guess the take home message is that paying attention to your wife and children is for suckers, that the "pure" minded people get the reward. Chase after your goal with everything you got. Relationships only hold you back.

If you want to read it that way, sure. Just as Vegeta's lesson is that it doesn't matter if you used to be a sociopathic mass murderer who did genocide with a huge grin on your face. As long as you become a Z-Fighter, all is forgiven and you even get a hot wife.

As long as he suddenly morns for the Son he practically abused and blows himself up trying to fix his mistake, he's morally cleansed!

[Whatever]

Vegeta acts like a responsible father and stays behind to watch his baby being born. Goku says stuff like who cares? I wasn't there for Chi Chi! Proudly. Yet Goku is being rewarded for his neglect with a new transformation. So I guess the take home message is that paying attention to your wife and children is for suckers, that the "pure" minded people get the reward. Chase after your goal with everything you got. Relationships only hold you back.

If you want to read it that way, sure. Just as Vegeta's lesson is that it doesn't matter if you used to be a sociopathic mass murderer who did genocide with a huge grin on your face. As long as you become a Z-Fighter, all is forgiven and you even get a hot wife.

As long as he suddenly morns for the Son he practically abused and blows himself up trying to fix his mistake, he's morally cleansed!

Vegeta was not forgiven,when he was revived he was pure because of the fusion with Goku.
During the fusion when their genitals touched,pureness clearly overflowed into Vegeta.

[avasatu]

I have to say, I prefer how they're handling Goku to just about anything else. I like seeing how he fights when he matches himself evenly to someone's power, lets them catch hold of him, and allows them to force him to resist. It's fun for me.

He'll get serious in time. Let him enjoy this once in a life time tourney.

I agree Vegeta and Frieza need to be shown a little more, though. And I'd be ok with a little less Goku and useless feedback from the stands to do so.

[TBMx]

If you want to read it that way, sure. Just as Vegeta's lesson is that it doesn't matter if you used to be a sociopathic mass murderer who did genocide with a huge grin on your face. As long as you become a Z-Fighter, all is forgiven and you even get a hot wife.

As long as he suddenly morns for the Son he practically abused and blows himself up trying to fix his mistake, he's morally cleansed!

Vegeta was not forgiven,when he was revived he was pure because of the fusion with Goku.
During the fusion when their genitals touched,pureness clearly overflowed into Vegeta.

The narrative has punished Vegeta over and over again for his former sociopathic ideation in order to send a positive message to kids. Goku acts like a total sociopath in this arc and he gets the ultimate rewards. So I guess thats the way to be.

[HeroR]

The narrative has punished Vegeta over and over again for his former sociopathic ideation in order to send a positive message to kids. Goku acts like a total sociopath in this arc and he gets the ultimate rewards. So I guess thats the way to be.

Which is basically as I said. Become a Z-Fighter and all is forgiven, even if you did butchered an entire village of innocent people who never did get revived btw. The most punishment Vegeta gets is being only second strongest in the universe. Woe to him, such a punishment.

Right, Goku crying over Roshi is him being a sociopath.

And since when does Dragon Ball teaches moral lessons?

[Yedis]

Vegeta acts like a responsible father and stays behind to watch his baby being born. Goku says stuff like who cares? I wasn't there for Chi Chi! Proudly. Yet Goku is being rewarded for his neglect with a new transformation. So I guess the take home message is that paying attention to your wife and children is for suckers, that the "pure" minded people get the reward. Chase after your goal with everything you got. Relationships only hold you back.

Meh based on your logic Gohan should be getting all the rewards since he's a better father and person than Goku and Vegeta.

[Simere]

Vegeta acts like a responsible father and stays behind to watch his baby being born. Goku says stuff like who cares? I wasn't there for Chi Chi! Proudly. Yet Goku is being rewarded for his neglect with a new transformation. So I guess the take home message is that paying attention to your wife and children is for suckers, that the "pure" minded people get the reward. Chase after your goal with everything you got. Relationships only hold you back.

Meh based on your logic Gohan should be getting all the rewards since he's a better father and person than Goku and Vegeta.

Next arc Bora comes back as strong as an angel, having raised an adopted daughter and also acquiring the "Grandfather" boost.