sintzu wrote:
With the anime, it's out of his hands due to him not running Toei. Same thing with Toyotarou, as much as he tries to do what Toriyama wants he still won't do what would've been done if Toriyama worked on it simply because he's a different person.
Toyotarou is in a very limited situation, but Toriyama can do whatever he wants as far as I understand. If he wanted, I'm sure Toei would allow him a more hands-on role.
In terms of comparing him to Oda and Kishimoto, I think it's unfair cause unlike them and himself when he worked on the original manga, he's not the one calling the shots now, it's the companies (especially Bandai) involved with the franchise. A great example of this is when he talked about the Zamasu arc cause he said it was a suggestion from the editorial office, not something he himself came up with. If Bandai wants to sell some evil Goku figures then it's up to him to make it happen and if he can't then someone else will.
That's based on the involvement of Toriyama. From what I've seen of interviews, his current level of involvement is of his choosing. He gets the final say on these ideas and its easy for him to take what they give him and change it to something he feels fits in Dragon Ball or subverts expectations. When I compared him to Oda and Kishimoto, I meant his vision for the story and his level of passion for writing it is just not the same as theirs. He doesn't prioritize the same things they prioritize, such as large casts of characters, backstories, lore, mysteries, intrigue. They had these epic stories that they planned out, constructed, deconstructed, fleshed out, and delved deeply into. Toriyama still doesn't have that level of passion and care for his world. He rarely delves deeply into anything and now that he's more hands off, it's even more noticeable. It makes sense because Toriyama is a gag mangaka at heart, whereas Oda and Kishimoto grew up on shounen manga like Dragon Ball and have a better understanding of what makes shounen work.
Remember back in 2014 when he said Goku would just use Ssj1 moving forward ? Ssjs sell too well so that idea went out the window.
Yeah, could also be a product of his script as he has a notoriously bad memory. You can't trust everything he says in interviews. Look at the Beerus, Whis, Goku scale. I would have loved for that quote to be true btw. The old SSJ forms just confuse things in Super.
Back when he worked on the manga however, he only answered to his editor who only expected one thing from him, to sell the story. how it was done was completely up to him. As long as the manga sold
Partially true. They held some sway over the direction of the manga and they'd often steer him in a good direction. For instance, Toriyama says in one interview that he wanted to end the Android Arc with #19 and #20, but his editor at the time said that they aren't appealing villains so Toriyama created #17 and #18 and was ready to call it a day. His editor told him he needed something better, so he created Cell then created Cell's alleged final form which was what we know as Semi-Perfect Cell. The editor though SP Cell was ugly and had Toriyama create what we now know as Perfect Cell. I think Toriyama's at his best when he has a sensible person in his ear, guiding --or rather, nudging his brilliance in the right direction. Can you imagine the Android saga ending with #19 and #20? Yuck.
and as long as people liked it, he was doing a grade A job, same thing with the 2 authors you brought up. Boruto's manga is in a similar position to DB's, they spent the last 3 chapters or so promoting a new card game that Bandai wants to make and sell. It doesn't matter that it made 0 sense within the context of the story, if the sponsor wants something, they get it or else they pull their $$$.
I agree, it frustrates me too. Merchandising is fine, but please don't do it at the expense of the show. I'm still convinced that Toei has a SSB and Goku quota that they have to fill for every episode for merchandising purposes. I think most of Super's problems to some degree stem from this blatant corporate greed.
When One Piece is all said and done, it'll most likely be the greatest written story in all of fiction so everyone involved with it will want it to continue beyond Oda's ending and like DB and Naruto, whoever works on it will have to do what they think will sell, regardless of it making for a good story or living up to what came before it.
I don't watch or read One Piece (yet) but I respect what Oda is doing with it and have been thinking that it might go down as the greatest story ever told from the scope, consistency, longevity, and level of detail it has. They'll pimp One Piece, but it won't be this new show after a show is over sort of thing. I think Oda is too hands on to allow them to mess with his world like that. Whatever Toei does with OP, if Oda's not involved, it'll be non-canon. I can see him going the Toriyama route, but if so his outline would be incredibly detailed.
sintzu wrote:BWri wrote:The main difference between then and now is that Toriyama had editors to reign him in back then. I think that's what Super is missing lol. The tension is missing because Toriyama doesn't have his real life villainous editors watching from over his shoulder
He has worse, Bandai's stock holders.
Yeah, but they don't care about quality, consistency, or freshness of ideas like an editor would. So AT is basically free to do whatever he wants. They just want new characters and Saiyan transformations which he can easily give them with minimal effort.
Big fan of the characters of Dragon Ball, all of them, especially formerly prominent sub-characters. -__-
