"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[Li'l Lemmy]

I think part of the problem is nobody with actual influence when it comes to Super cares about Goten or Trunks. If one of the higher ups liked them enough the way someone up there likes Krillin, Gohan, or Roshi, then maybe we'd actually get updated, age-appropriate designs at bare minimum.

I'm giving it one more arc for something to happen with them. If we can't even get new designs- much less some kind of actual role- in the next arc, then I'm just going to assume that they're being ignored until EoZ and just move on from the franchise as a whole for awhile. 100+ episodes is a long time to go without seeing them do anything even halfway consequential, and it's really starting to sour my feelings on DragonBall in general. And that's a pretty good sign for me to back out.

It's a reasonable assumption that the Universe Survival arc is some sort of last hurrah for a few of the older cast. But if these obviously neglected Saiyan characters (seriously, WTF) aren't utilized in the next arc either, then I don't see any reason to think it will change down the road. And thus, no reason for me to keep hinging on some kind of delusional, misbegotten hope for the next arc or the following arc or the arc after that, etc.

That's just me, though.

[Doctor.]

100+ episodes is a long time to go without seeing them do anything even halfway consequential, and it's really starting to sour my feelings on DragonBall in general. And that's a pretty good sign for me to back out.

Out of curiosity, not trying to be hostile (I say this because some people take these comments the wrong way), how did you handle the series before the Boo arc?

[omaro34]

I think part of the problem is nobody with actual influence when it comes to Super cares about Goten or Trunks. If one of the higher ups liked them enough the way someone up there likes Krillin, Gohan, or Roshi, then maybe we'd actually get updated, age-appropriate designs at bare minimum.

I'm giving it one more arc for something to happen with them. If we can't even get new designs- much less some kind of actual role- in the next arc, then I'm just going to assume that they're being ignored until EoZ and just move on from the franchise as a whole for awhile. 100+ episodes is a long time to go without seeing them do anything even halfway consequential, and it's really starting to sour my feelings on DragonBall in general. And that's a pretty good sign for me to back out.

It's a reasonable assumption that the Universe Survival arc is some sort of last hurrah for a few of the older cast. But if these obviously neglected Saiyan characters (seriously, WTF) aren't utilized in the next arc either, then I don't see any reason to think it will change down the road. And thus, no reason for me to keep hinging on some kind of delusional, misbegotten hope for the next arc or the following arc or the arc after that, etc.

That's just me, though.

Are you going to quit Super if Goten and Trunks aren't developed and shoved aside by the next arc? I completely understand your frustration. It looks like they haven't aged a day since the Buu Arc, and they haven't made any contributions to the plot. You can slice it anyway you want to, and still come up with that conclusion.

Gotenks has appeared three times, one in getting his ass kicked against Beerus just like everybody else, one in a gag against Tagoma where the fusion ended abruptly and the other in a forgettable filler arc against Copy Vegeta where he was thrown aside like a rag doll. We aren't seeing any progress whatsoever.

I'm always hoping for an adult Gotenks to show up one day, that would be epic.

[Li'l Lemmy]

100+ episodes is a long time to go without seeing them do anything even halfway consequential, and it's really starting to sour my feelings on DragonBall in general. And that's a pretty good sign for me to back out.

Out of curiosity, not trying to be hostile (I say this because some people take these comments the wrong way), how did you handle the series before the Boo arc?

No hostility perceived.

Obviously the series as it was pre-Boo is... well, the series as it was pre-Boo. I'm not gonna rag on the preceding arcs simply because the characters I like best didn't exist yet. I like DragonBall and DragonBall Z just fine for what they were beforehand.

What bothers me is, the Boo arc gave us these two characters who I feel represent great potential to be interesting and provide a unique perspective/dynamic/whatever, and Super chooses to do absolutely nothing with them in terms of exploration or growth. They were key players in the Boo arc that have essentially vanished in importance or relevance, at least for the time being. Give them something to DO or BE. Make them functional beyond just being kids who show up once in awhile. They don't have to rival the top tier to be meaningful. At this point outright failure is preferential to doing nothing, because at least failure leads to growth.

Are you going to quit Super if Goten and Trunks aren't developed and shoved aside by the next arc? I completely understand your frustration. It looks like they haven't aged a day since the Buu Arc, and they haven't made any contributions to the plot. You can slice it anyway you want to, and still come up with that conclusion.

"Quit Super" and "drop the show" and all those other phrases people use to vent their frustrations usually don't mean dick because we all still turn up here to bitch and complain anyway. I certainly say every now and then that "I'm done" if the show doesn't address this problem, and yet here I am still being mouthy on a consistent basis. What I can say is that my interest in following Super is becoming more and more passive and that this is definitely the reason why, so it's conceivable that at some point I could just say fuck it and go do something else. I haven't gotten to that point yet because I keep holding out hope for something. The next arc is, yet again, another chance for meaningful involvement, but I've been through this with every new arc; I'm becoming jaded. I can't tell you how out of sorts I was when that poster for the Universe Survival arc first showed up and didn't even have Gotenks.

We all have favorite characters. I'm sure you and everyone else gets exactly where I'm coming from.

[Michsi]

What bothers me is, the Boo arc gave us these two characters who I feel represent great potential to be interesting and provide a unique perspective/dynamic/whatever, and Super chooses to do absolutely nothing with them in terms of exploration or growth. They were key players in the Boo arc that have essentially vanished in importance or relevance, at least for the time being. Give them something to DO or BE. Make them functional beyond just being kids who show up once in awhile. They don't have to rival the top tier to be meaningful. At this point outright failure is preferential to doing nothing, because at least failure leads to growth.
.

While I have nothing to base this one, could it be that the reason we don't see them doing much of anything is because they're kids? Just another form of Sunday morning censorship- not showing young children fighting or something like that?

We've had Goku ( GOKU!) claim once in DBS that the battlefield is no place for children and later the reason they weren't chosen for the TOP was also because of their age. Considering that original DB had no problem with this whatsoever, this newfound reluctance to have kid fighters seems odd.

[Chuquita]

Are you going to quit Super if Goten and Trunks aren't developed and shoved aside by the next arc? I completely understand your frustration. It looks like they haven't aged a day since the Buu Arc, and they haven't made any contributions to the plot. You can slice it anyway you want to, and still come up with that conclusion.

"Quit Super" and "drop the show" and all those other phrases people use to vent their frustrations usually don't mean dick because we all still turn up here to bitch and complain anyway. I certainly say every now and then that "I'm done" if the show doesn't address this problem, and yet here I am still being mouthy on a consistent basis. What I can say is that my interest in following Super is becoming more and more passive and that this is definitely the reason why, so it's conceivable that at some point I could just say fuck it and go do something else. I haven't gotten to that point yet because I keep holding out hope for something. The next arc is, again, another chance to hope for something, but I've been through this a few times by now; I'm becoming jaded. I can't tell you how out of sorts I was when that poster for the Universe Survival arc first showed up and didn't even have Gotenks.

We all have favorite characters. I'm sure you and everyone else gets exactly where I'm coming from.

I absolutely get this. I'm of the thought that disinterest, rather than dislike, is what signals the end of one's love of a show. Dislike, and the complaining that comes with it, show the person's still passionate about a series and wants to see it improve; they still ultimately want to be there.

When one becomes disinterested in their fandom; they don't post as much, they don't make an effort to stay as up to date as they had been, if they used to watch it right when it came out they no longer care about doing that and might watch it several days after. Eventually they stop bothering to keep up and it no longer matters and they move on.

I'm not saying that there aren't those who don't legitimately leave a fandom in a swell of anger, but I think the majority leave from a loss of interest.

I personally didn't have the same problems with previous arcs that I have with this one, and this arc's big problem for me is that it's not interesting. It's just a lot of isolated fights with an overarching plot that feels choreographed in a way where none of this will have mattered by the time it's over anyway. Even my second favorite character's become dull and cliche this arc. My favorite character is the only one keeping me in the game right now. That you can continue to follow Super for an arc without Trunks and Goten is impressive; I know I would temporarily stop watching Super if Goku wasn't in the arc.

What Shueisha and Toriyama (and Toei and Toyotarou) do with the next story arc is going to determine where I go from here as well. (That along with how rl shakes out for me this fall.) It's starting to not matter as much if I don't catch this show live, and while I haven't been fully tested on that yet (circumstances that would completely prevent me from being there at that specific time) probability states that test should occur eventually.

I almost left the fandom 5 years ago in the spring, but then a couple months later BOG was announced and I was back in. I feel like depending on what the next story arc is announced as, what it'll be about, is going to be a deciding factor for me too.

[Li'l Lemmy]

While I have nothing to base this one, could it be that the reason we don't see them doing much of anything is because they're kids? Just another form of Sunday morning censorship- not showing young children fighting or something like that?

We've had Goku ( GOKU!) claim once in DBS that the battlefield is no place for children and later the reason they weren't chosen for the TOP was also because of their age. Considering that original DB had no problem with this whatsoever, this newfound reluctance to have kid fighters seems odd.

I dunno. Somehow I think their exclusion from the RoF movie and their lack of real involvement in the first 100+ episodes of Super is mounting evidence of some sort of creative crisis in not knowing what to do with these characters. At least Toei seems to want to do something with them, since presumably the Copy-Vegeta arc was their idea. Toriyama seems to be signaling that he has no avenue for them at all, or at least not while they're still children.

I'd love to be proven wrong, though.

I absolutely get this. I'm of the thought that disinterest, rather than dislike, is what signals the end of one's love of a show. Dislike, and the complaining that comes with it, show the person's still passionate about a series and wants to see it improve; they still ultimately want to be there.

When one becomes disinterested in their fandom; they don't post as much, they don't make an effort to stay as up to date as they had been, if they used to watch it right when it came out they no longer care about doing that and might watch it several days after. Eventually they stop bothering to keep up and it no longer matters and they move on.

I'm not saying that there aren't those who don't legitimately leave a fandom in a swell of anger, but I think the majority leave from a loss of interest.

How insightful.

I personally didn't have the same problems with previous arcs that I have with this one, and this arc's big problem for me is that it's not interesting. It's just a lot of isolated fights with an overarching plot that feels choreographed in a way where none of this will have mattered by the time it's over anyway. Even my second favorite character's become dull and cliche this arc. My favorite character is the only one keeping me in the game right now. That you can continue to follow Super for an arc without Trunks and Goten is impressive; I know I would temporarily stop watching Super if Goku wasn't in the arc.

What Shueisha and Toriyama (and Toei and Toyotarou) do with the next story arc is going to determine where I go from here as well. (That along with how rl shakes out for me this fall.) It's starting to not matter as much if I don't catch this show live, and while I haven't been fully tested on that yet (circumstances that would completely prevent me from being there at that specific time) probability states that test should occur eventually.

I almost left the fandom 5 years ago in the spring, but then a couple months later BOG was announced and I was back in. I feel like depending on what the next story arc is announced as, what it'll be about, is going to be a deciding factor for me too.

I'm right there with ya. It's definitely the next arc and what it proposes that will determine my level of interest in the series as a whole going forward. If it doesn't signal to me something I can chew on, then I imagine I'll just keep being snarky for awhile and then eventually just fall off the bandwagon. What you said about disinterest, rather than dislike, being the deciding factor in curtailing personal involvement is rather poignant. I find it reasonable. I can hate on the show's creative decisions all day, but chances are I'll still keep coming back hoping something will change; it's essentially when I lose hope and no longer have an interest in what's coming down the pike that I can actually see myself closing up shop.

[Marlowe89]

It would be a little weird if Super suddenly went after EoZ, considering it's been marketed as being set in the 10 years of gap.

I concur. I wouldn't personally want Super to continue on for all that long, certainly not past EoZ since that would somewhat go against what the series was initially advertised to chronicle, although I do think it should at least go on for another arc or two after the Tournament of Power -- otherwise Toriyama's outlines specifically created for the anime/manga would consist of two tournament arcs and only one non-tournament arc, which would be equally strange in hindsight.

I believe it was Toyotaro who suggested that the series is beginning to approach the EoZ period, so it's really anyone's guess as to how it'll be handled after the current arc's conclusion.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

A new line of Saiyan WCF's. Wicked. All mostly Goku. Awesome. Brilliant. Just what we need. We haven't got such an abundance of Saiyan figures. Thank the lord. Terrifc.
[spoiler][/spoiler]

What are they freaking doing. The Super brand is being wasted unnecessarily.

[TheOne]

100+ episodes is a long time to go without seeing them do anything even halfway consequential, and it's really starting to sour my feelings on DragonBall in general. And that's a pretty good sign for me to back out.

Out of curiosity, not trying to be hostile (I say this because some people take these comments the wrong way), how did you handle the series before the Boo arc?

No hostility perceived.

Obviously the series as it was pre-Boo is... well, the series as it was pre-Boo. I'm not gonna rag on the preceding arcs simply because the characters I like best didn't exist yet. I like DragonBall and DragonBall Z just fine for what they were beforehand.

What bothers me is, the Boo arc gave us these two characters who I feel represent great potential to be interesting and provide a unique perspective/dynamic/whatever, and Super chooses to do absolutely nothing with them in terms of exploration or growth. They were key players in the Boo arc that have essentially vanished in importance or relevance, at least for the time being. Give them something to DO or BE. Make them functional beyond just being kids who show up once in awhile. They don't have to rival the top tier to be meaningful. At this point outright failure is preferential to doing nothing, because at least failure leads to growth.

Are you going to quit Super if Goten and Trunks aren't developed and shoved aside by the next arc? I completely understand your frustration. It looks like they haven't aged a day since the Buu Arc, and they haven't made any contributions to the plot. You can slice it anyway you want to, and still come up with that conclusion.

"Quit Super" and "drop the show" and all those other phrases people use to vent their frustrations usually don't mean dick because we all still turn up here to bitch and complain anyway. I certainly say every now and then that "I'm done" if the show doesn't address this problem, and yet here I am still being mouthy on a consistent basis. What I can say is that my interest in following Super is becoming more and more passive and that this is definitely the reason why, so it's conceivable that at some point I could just say fuck it and go do something else. I haven't gotten to that point yet because I keep holding out hope for something. The next arc is, yet again, another chance for meaningful involvement, but I've been through this with every new arc; I'm becoming jaded. I can't tell you how out of sorts I was when that poster for the Universe Survival arc first showed up and didn't even have Gotenks.

We all have favorite characters. I'm sure you and everyone else gets exactly where I'm coming from.

I don't understand all the complaining. Yes Goten and Trunks are being pushed aside, but maybe try looking at the bigger picture..? It seems very obvious what's going on. At least to me. I don't think they had any intentions on having another arc after Buu. So passing it on to the next generation seemed like the best approach. Now that the series has started back up, they're essentially postponing the feeling Z had about the focus on Trunks and Goten. Atleast that's how I personally feel about it.

Trunks and Goten are being saved for the Uub, Bulla, Pan and Maron generation. It's the most logical reason why these two are still not being used. Constantly seeing people complain about how these two are being wasted is getting annoying. I'm all for wanting them to be apart of the cast again, but obviously they don't want to give them too much screen time just yet. Their time is coming. Right now it's just exploring all the other members.

Just like every other manga/anime fans, the constant lack of patience is very transparent. I have a feeling this series will go on for a while. Save the complaining of the lack of charachter focus until the series is completely over with. Don't be like that guy who started a thread about the "tournament being too Goku centered" Around the beginning of the tournament and instantly became a laughing stock the following week.

[BlueBasilisk]

A new line of Saiyan WCF's. Wicked. All mostly Goku. Awesome. Brilliant. Just what we need. We haven't got such an abundance of Saiyan figures. Thank the lord. Terrifc.
[spoiler][/spoiler]

What are they freaking doing. The Super brand is being wasted unnecessarily.

2/6 of those are actually from Super. Wow.

[Chuquita]

A new line of Saiyan WCF's. Wicked. All mostly Goku. Awesome. Brilliant. Just what we need. We haven't got such an abundance of Saiyan figures. Thank the lord. Terrifc.
[spoiler][/spoiler]

What are they freaking doing. The Super brand is being wasted unnecessarily.

2/6 of those are actually from Super. Wow.

Even I think that lineup's ridiculous and Gokû's my favorite.

They have all these new characters why not make WCF figures of the more popular among them?

I'm still waiting for them to release the Zamasu arc WCFs in the US. You still can't find many of those on Amazon yet.

[Noah]

As expected those "leaks" turned out to be fake, though it makes me think that it would be cool if Vegeta achieved something new first this time. In the manga he says next time he will be the first to unlock something new/better, after he masters Blue.

Yeah, I would like that too. It would set a different route than "Goku is the genius who discover all kinds of transformations" in the series.

End of the world! Worst case scenario would be a new Dragon Ball series simply taking over the spot is all.

I wouldn't like it, I think it's better to wait another 18 years, so people could absorb Super and trash the series coming next due nostalgia.

Was Trunks always a full head taller than Goten?

Only in Dragon Ball Super.

Funny that going by real logic, Goten should be taller than Trunks

[MainJPW]

Gohan is kind of a weird example. In the Cell Games he was drawn with a lean muscular body and looked like an adolescent during his fight with Cell...but then he's drawn next to Krillin at the end and they're the same height and really tiny.

The scene on God's Palace when 18 shows up? They don't look so short normally.
Gohan and Kuririn seemed to be around the same height post-Rosat:

[spoiler]
[/spoiler]

At or about near Goku's shoulders...until Super shrunk Kuririn to the size of an 8-year-old in most scenes.

Only in Dragon Ball Super.

Funny that going by real logic, Goten should be taller than Trunks

Because his dad is taller than Trunks' dad (and his grand father's the Ox Demon King)?

[Noah]

Because his dad is taller than Trunks' dad (and his grand father's the Ox Demon King)?

Exactly. I didn't thought about Ox King, but that's right

[Xeztin]

A new line of Saiyan WCF's. Wicked. All mostly Goku. Awesome. Brilliant. Just what we need. We haven't got such an abundance of Saiyan figures. Thank the lord. Terrifc.
[spoiler][/spoiler]

What are they freaking doing. The Super brand is being wasted unnecessarily.

2/6 of those are actually from Super. Wow.

Even I think that lineup's ridiculous and Gokû's my favorite.

They have all these new characters why not make WCF figures of the more popular among them?

I'm still waiting for them to release the Zamasu arc WCFs in the US. You still can't find many of those on Amazon yet.

I like how they all have something do with Goku and his body. Looks like they are trying to tell us something here, Gogeta SSJ4? Really? It's a thousand wonders he hasn't found himself in the anime yet.

[BlueBasilisk]

The scene on God's Palace when 18 shows up? They don't look so short normally.
Gohan and Kuririn seemed to be around the same height post-Rosat:

Yeah, that was the scene I was talking about.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

A new line of Saiyan WCF's. Wicked. All mostly Goku. Awesome. Brilliant. Just what we need. We haven't got such an abundance of Saiyan figures. Thank the lord. Terrifc.
[spoiler][/spoiler]

What are they freaking doing. The Super brand is being wasted unnecessarily.

2/6 of those are actually from Super. Wow.

Welcome to life that is Dragon Ball Super figures... The main WCF vol 10 was a Goku special so now to get a new "Saiyan Bravery" line is too ridiculous...

[TheDipDap1234]

A better version of the Trunks and Goten image:

[spoiler][/spoiler]

"9/9(土)夕方より放送『FNS27時間テレビにほんのれきし』に『ドラゴンボール超』登場！旧石器時代から現代まで27時間かけて随所にアニメ4作品が登場します。弥生時代に悟天とトランクスが登場？！お楽しみに！" - From DBS's twitter page

http://www.toei-anim.co.jp/tv/dragon_s/ ... 90101.html - an article about the special on DBS's website.

Preview image of episode 107 of Dragon Ball Super

[spoiler][/spoiler]

[Xeogran]

Anyone else feels that Episode 106 will be a mess art/animation/action-wise, and we'll be stuck with complainers for 2 weeks thanks to the break too?

The preview looked boring, and previews are supposed to hype you, so I'm having bad feelings about that.