What's your opinion on Toyotaro?

[Totamo]

His stuff is basically published fanfiction. Best way to describe him: The fanfiction man.

Toyotaro is a fan of dragon ball, but he is exactly what happens when you let a fan write the series which is why many fans like the manga better.

Well, Toshio is a fan too, does that this make his episodes TV released fanfiction? Nah.

Toriyama writes the plot, that makes a difference for start. It's not a fanfiction story, although some of the plots look like that sometimes. I mean, Freeza returning, Trunks returning, an evil Goku, a multiversal tournament and so on. Then Toyotaro and Toei come to the picture. Dragon Ball Super manga is not fanfiction, Toriyama supervises Toyotaro's work himself, making corrections and changes. It's a midquel to the original Dragon Ball manga.

DB After, Toyotaro's and Young Jiji's, those are fanfiction. DB Multiverse too. Yamcha's manga is fanfiction too, even if it's officially published. Nothing against any of those, they are quite cool in general, but non of them are Toriyama's story, like DB Super.

And, ehem, the Kaioken return or Ginyu the frog story, these are Toei only and they scream fanfiction from every pore.

Personally, I don't think Toriyama is as involved as we think he is. Now, I'm not saying that to take the blame off or anything because these are his plotlines. But he is not executing the journey to get to those lines and everyone knows thats what makes or breaks a dragon ball arc.


Now Toyo may have said that but Tori said differently .

[Basako]

Personally, I don't think Toriyama is as involved as we think he is. Now, I'm not saying that to take the blame off or anything because these are his plotlines. But he is not executing the journey to get to those lines and everyone knows thats what makes or breaks a dragon ball arc.


Now Toyo may have said that but Tori said differently .

Well, both parts are important in the making, the base story, which Toriyama provides and the telling of it, which Toyotaro makes faithfully and very well, by the way.

Said differently what? Toriyama checks Toyotaro's storyboards, makes corrections and changes things. It's quite a big involvement, the story is his and the way Toyotaro writes it has passed his filter. It's the closest thing we could have now that he doesn't want to make manga anymore.

Things may be internally consistent, but they can get boring.

I've been trying to articulate this point, but never knew how to word it. I wholeheartedly agree

I don't agree, it's not boring at all. I think it is as internally consisntent as the previous manga and quite more than the anime.

[Miracles]

Toyotaro is doing a good job.

The anime even copied him on red/blue interchange technique.

[sintzu]

I think he's a great artists. His fight choreography is always on point, never once was I disappointed with his fights. He keeps writing consistant and so far has done a good job at keeping power levels in check. Overall, I think he's a worthy successor to Toriyama.

It does however remain to be seen how he'd handle things if he was the main writer and not just using Toriyama's plot points cause him being good at adapting a story doesn't mean he can write one himself.

[MozillaVulpix]

Things may be internally consistent, but they can get boring.

I've been trying to articulate this point, but never knew how to word it. I wholeheartedly agree

I don't agree, it's not boring at all. I think it is as internally consisntent as the previous manga and quite more than the anime.

I mean, I'm not saying everyone will find it boring. I'm just saying something being internally consistent isn't the same as it being an interesting story. Toyotaro's storytelling (to me), seems like it tries to cover its plot holes first, and attempts to tell a story second. Whereas with Toriyama it always felt like the opposite, even nowadays.

[Kanassa]

I've been trying to articulate this point, but never knew how to word it. I wholeheartedly agree

I don't agree, it's not boring at all. I think it is as internally consisntent as the previous manga and quite more than the anime.

I mean, I'm not saying everyone will find it boring. I'm just saying something being internally consistent isn't the same as it being an interesting story. Toyotaro's storytelling (to me), seems like it tries to cover its plot holes first, and attempts to tell a story second. Whereas with Toriyama it always felt like the opposite, even nowadays.

Toriyama was less 'Plot Holes Last' and more 'Hey, did anyone else feel a bump on the road? Me neither!'

[shadowmaria]

I think Toyotaro is great, and I'll be curious to see what he gives us in the Tournament of Power, and if we'll get any new forms, etc.

[Basako]

I mean, I'm not saying everyone will find it boring. I'm just saying something being internally consistent isn't the same as it being an interesting story. Toyotaro's storytelling (to me), seems like it tries to cover its plot holes first, and attempts to tell a story second. Whereas with Toriyama it always felt like the opposite, even nowadays.

Maybe that different feeling with Toriyama come from the fact that he wrote without knowing exactly where he was going, while Toyotaro is given a path to follow. This is not how Toriyama worked in DB, but it's how Toyotaro has to, no choice. Maybe that plothole covering thing you say it's more in your eyes than in the manga itself, I just read the story and enjoy it, seriously. Tori doesn't do manga nowadays, btw.

The look is affected by knowing the anime first too, but it brings so much to enjoy yet. We can't get storyline big surprises like that, but we've been getting some anyway and the battles have been amazing. He is so good at that, I'm so looking foward for the tournament.

A story can be internally consistant and interesting at the same time, it's like you oppose one thing with the other and there's no need for that.

[SansrivaaL]

Great artist, mediocre writer.
Guess another of my complains when it comes to his drawings is... why the hell do they always look cute? is it because of the modern age irl? even DBS the anime they always most of the time look cute af, DB and DBZ had their scary ass moments where their faces werent cute but just dead beat scary, as well as Toriyama's art, but nowadays even when beated to a pulp they always look cute in the manga and anime.

[emperior]

I don't particularly like Toyotaro's art. He ruined Black's design which was awesome in the anime.
Actually he ruined Black in every aspect.
Toyotaro has some great ideas but his stories aren't on par with the original manga or Super's anime. I don't know whether he is forced to make his stories different from the anime or if he's just free to do whatever he wants as long as he follows the outline. Unfortunately he ruined manga's FT arc, the first two chapters were very good, if he stayed close to the anime that would have been awesome. Such a shame I can't easily read one of my favorite arcs of Dragon Ball. The manga should be the faster alternative to see a story but in Super's case I'm forced to watch the anime, and it takes more time to watch anime episodes than to read manga chapters.

[LowRyder2005]

Judging from some of the comments here my gut feeling tells me that, if one switched Toyotaro's art and story in the anime and transmigrated the contents of the anime (an art equivalent in terms of cutting, coreography, shots, panel, models and obviously the story) in the manga, most of the people in this thread would - respectively - be the calling the anime the best thing since sliced bread and the manga a most abhorrent disgrace in the franchise.

Regarding Toyotaro, I think that with the degree of autonomy he's allowed to have in crafting a story he's making a suitable job in general. In fact, I'll go farther and state that while I can usually feel a modicum of anticipation for the manga, I mostly follow the anime to keep up with the latest evolution of the series and not because the story entices me that much. Maybe it's the sort of "with you until the very end" type of the affection that would drive a lot of old-school fans.

Going back to the manga: the latest chapter are especially starting to come together with proper pacing and the distension a story is supposed to possess, and compared to the very hapazhardly-assembled (again, by constriction) initial chapters, I'd say the manga is positively evolving, probably more than what I'd say for the anime. It isn't a masterpiece in its own regard - even among shōnen , namely - or in general (but then again I feel much, much less enthusiasm for the anime), it's manneristic enough that it won't ever ascend and reach the same paragon role in the modern manga cosmogony which befitted the Dragon Ball of old in the 80s. However, it's also a nice read, overall faithful to the spirit of the original universe. A good "extra chapter", in short. The feeling I get from the way Toyotaro handles his characters and story is that he has quite some room of growth as an author, that he's someone who's either learning and getting his hands into what the art of writing stories is made of or that he's gradually being allowed to; in fact, I think that seeing him evolve through the way he's handling the characters (hoping the master-mentor dynamic works in his favor) is probably the most interesting aspect in the entire revival of the series.

[Hawk9211]

Judging from some of the comments here my gut feeling tells me that, if one switched Toyotaro's art and story in the anime and transmigrated the contents of the anime (an art equivalent in terms of cutting, coreography, shots, panel, models and obviously the story) in the manga, most of the people in this thread would - respectively - be the calling the anime the best thing since sliced bread and the manga a most abhorrent disgrace in the franchise.

Regarding Toyotaro, I think that with the degree of autonomy he's allowed to have in crafting a story he's making a suitable job in general. In fact, I'll go farther and state that while I can usually feel a modicum of anticipation for the manga, I mostly follow the anime to keep up with the latest evolution of the series and not because the story entices me that much. Maybe it's the sort of "with you until the very end" type of the affection that would drive a lot of old-school fans.

Going back to the manga: the latest chapter are especially starting to come together with proper pacing and the distension a story is supposed to possess, and compared to the very hapazhardly-assembled (again, by constriction) initial chapters, I'd say the manga is positively evolving, probably more than what I'd say for the anime. It isn't a masterpiece in its own regard - even among shōnen , namely - or in general (but then again I feel much, much less enthusiasm for the anime), it's manneristic enough that it won't ever ascend and reach the same paragon role in the modern manga cosmogony which befitted the Dragon Ball of old in the 80s. However, it's also a nice read, overall faithful to the spirit of the original universe. A good "extra chapter", in short. The feeling I get from the way Toyotaro handles his characters and story is that he has quite some room of growth as an author, that he's someone who's either learning and getting his hands into what the art of writing stories is made of or that he's gradually being allowed to; in fact, I think that seeing him evolve through the way he's handling the characters (hoping the master-mentor dynamic works in his favor) is probably the most interesting aspect in the entire revival of the series.

You just said what I was finding words for.The thing is toyotaro is a newbie,he is still learning about being a writer and I would say that he is evolving in a positive way.I am pretty sure manga top will be a step up form previous chapter.

[Nero<>Akira]

He's great at the art with some noticeable hiccups at times which is most likely from the schedule. His fights are great, though lacking in creativity panel wise at times. his U6 arc was great and so was the beginning of the FT arc before Goku and Vegeta went to the future. It was all ogre then.