Do you consider the Boo arc better than Super?

[Ballistictiger]

Yes by a longshot.

[DragonBallFoodie]

At this point, I must say Buu Saga, specifically in comparison to the Zamasu arc.

Buu has turned out to be more entertaining than Zamasu. I do like the use of Zeno in the Super though to take care of stuff.

Toyotaro is doing okay, but he’s too conventional and shonen-oriented. Toriyama had a genius for picking the right point to make things different and uses villains who are enjoyable.

So far with Super, I find its minor arcs to be more entertaining and interesting (baseball game, Goku assassination attempt, Great Saiyaman film, Arale) than the major ones.

[Dai-Saiyajin]

Buu saga also have the best color design of the franchise. I wonder, who was the color designer responsable for that wonderful color palette ? Kunio Tsujita ? Toyoji Sawada ? Hideko Chida ? Guess I will never know...

[Ripper 30]

Buu saga also have the best color design of the franchise. I wonder, who was the color designer responsable for that wonderful color palette ? Kunio Tsujita ? Toyoji Sawada ? Hideko Chida ? Guess I will never know...

Pink Candy is what comes to my mind when I think of it.

[Totamo]

I read that. But your argue is not convicing, for me. I don't think a post-Boo Vegeta would act like this.

Why not? How would he act?

He would act as he acts in movies 12 e 13 and in EoZ. They are friends now, he understood his acts in favor of his pride were selfish and inconsequent. He respect Goku as an equal, as a"hook" that inspire him to improve himself always, not as someone who is competing with him.

He improves because he wants to be like Goku. Thats not, well entertaining.


Here is the thing: Vegeta never would have improved himself unless he is trying to surpass Goku. I always bring this up and people ignore me. Vegeta was that character in GT and he did nothing of merit. He didn't even improve himself and it took a shortcut to achieve power. That Vegeta was boring.


You want Vegeta domesticated.

[fadeddreams5]

The Buu saga was the biggest plague in this franchise, and the catalyst for all the shit that came after it.

With that said, it's a million times better than Super in every category, and enjoyable in its own right. Incidentally, they've been airing Super and Kai-Final Chapters on Toonami. I can't bare to rewatch the former, but still very much enjoy the latter.

[Trickster]

Why not? How would he act?

He would act as he acts in movies 12 e 13 and in EoZ. They are friends now, he understood his acts in favor of his pride were selfish and inconsequent. He respect Goku as an equal, as a"hook" that inspire him to improve himself always, not as someone who is competing with him.

He improves because he wants to be like Goku. Thats not, well entertaining.


Here is the thing: Vegeta never would have improved himself unless he is trying to surpass Goku. I always bring this up and people ignore me. Vegeta was that character in GT and he did nothing of merit. He didn't even improve himself and it took a shortcut to achieve power. That Vegeta was boring.


You want Vegeta domesticated.

No. "Vegeta domesticated" is the way he looks NOW, obeying everything Bills and Bulma tell him to do. That's another point that proves how inconsistent the character is. In battle moments he is Cell arc's Vegeta, fight without thinking, being proud, ignoring Goku's knowledge (but, in this point, I don't blame him, since DBS' Goku is a complete dumbass), but, in everyday life (am I using this term correctly?), he even wore a maid costume.

Look at EoZ, when Goku is having a conversation with him, he even smiles, they're two real friends having a conversation. He is not that angry and irrational guy anymore. For God's sake, his development in Boo Arc was entirely about this. The fact he wears Freeza's armor is also an evidence of how his characterization is totally wrong. He wears it everytime, even to train at the gravity's room, while he didn't wear it anytime in Boo Saga, because it was part of his past, part of the cold-blood killer Vegeta. GT's Vegeta is the natural progression of the character, both on design and personality.

[ABED]

Friends can be competitive. His arc in the Buu arc wasn't about them becoming friends. It was about Vegeta finally letting go of his insecurity. Secure people can still be competitive. They simply don't see someone better at something as an afront to their self image.

Domesticated Vegeta is not a natural progression of his character. It's a step too far.

[Totamo]

He would act as he acts in movies 12 e 13 and in EoZ. They are friends now, he understood his acts in favor of his pride were selfish and inconsequent. He respect Goku as an equal, as a"hook" that inspire him to improve himself always, not as someone who is competing with him.

He improves because he wants to be like Goku. Thats not, well entertaining.


Here is the thing: Vegeta never would have improved himself unless he is trying to surpass Goku. I always bring this up and people ignore me. Vegeta was that character in GT and he did nothing of merit. He didn't even improve himself and it took a shortcut to achieve power. That Vegeta was boring.


You want Vegeta domesticated.

No. "Vegeta domesticated" is the way he looks NOW, obeying everything Bills and Bulma tell him to do. That's another point that proves how inconsistent the character is. In battle moments he is Cell arc's Vegeta, fight without thinking, being proud, ignoring Goku's knowledge (but, in this point, I don't blame him, since DBS' Goku is a complete dumbass), but, in everyday life (am I using this term correctly?), he even wore a maid costume.

Look at EoZ, when Goku is having a conversation with him, he even smiles, they're two real friends having a conversation. He is not that angry and irrational guy anymore. For God's sake, his development in Boo Arc was entirely about this. The fact he wears Freeza's armor is also an evidence of how his characterization is totally wrong. He wears it everytime, even to train at the gravity's room, while he didn't wear it anytime in Boo Saga, because it was part of his past, part of the cold-blood killer Vegeta. GT's Vegeta is the natural progression of the character, both on design and personality.

Wait, wouldn't him putting his pride down to get training from another person be a sign of said development. Because I don't think pre buu arc vegeta would do that.


Vegeta fought without thinking in the buu saga too, hell in movies 12 and 13, he did that exact same thing. He also didn't want to do the fusion dance even though the world was in danger.


Also that conversation was just him asking Goku questions about the tournament, you know fighting. Because Goku never said goodbye to vegeta in the manga.


The saiyan armor is for nostalgia sake, he wore the underarmor and the boots in the buu saga and no he doesn't wear it all the time, he wears his blue collar and khakis most of the time except when he is fighting or training.
You lose points here.


GT Vegeta did NOTHING of value and you want to know why, because he had no drive, he had nothing to fight for and don't you dare say his family. Thats Gohan's thing.
He was just a overprotected father. Thats the Vegeta you wanted. Cool, but if super does do that, don't cry for relevancy.

[Trickster]

Friends can be competitive. His arc in the Buu arc wasn't about them becoming friends. It was about Vegeta finally letting go of his insecurity. Secure people can still be competitive. They simply don't see someone better at something as an afront to their self image.

Domesticated Vegeta is not a natural progression of his character. It's a step too far.

He is not that angry and irrational guy anymore <- This is what Buu Arc is about.

Friends can be competitive.

I never said they couldn't. But I already explained how competition and childish behavior are not the same thing.

Domesticated Vegeta is Super's Vegeta, not GT. Super's Vegeta dances, cookes, cleans. There's a parody where he even let Bills f*cks Bulma. He already became a joke inside the fandom.

[ABED]

GT Vegeta is also very domesticated. He doesn't do much except at the end.

He is not that angry and irrational guy anymore <- This is what Buu Arc is about.

That doesn't mean he has to be a homebody who doesn't seem like he doesn't train and who gets sad because his daughter makes fun of his moustache.

[Trickster]

He improves because he wants to be like Goku. Thats not, well entertaining.


Here is the thing: Vegeta never would have improved himself unless he is trying to surpass Goku. I always bring this up and people ignore me. Vegeta was that character in GT and he did nothing of merit. He didn't even improve himself and it took a shortcut to achieve power. That Vegeta was boring.


You want Vegeta domesticated.

No. "Vegeta domesticated" is the way he looks NOW, obeying everything Bills and Bulma tell him to do. That's another point that proves how inconsistent the character is. In battle moments he is Cell arc's Vegeta, fight without thinking, being proud, ignoring Goku's knowledge (but, in this point, I don't blame him, since DBS' Goku is a complete dumbass), but, in everyday life (am I using this term correctly?), he even wore a maid costume.

Look at EoZ, when Goku is having a conversation with him, he even smiles, they're two real friends having a conversation. He is not that angry and irrational guy anymore. For God's sake, his development in Boo Arc was entirely about this. The fact he wears Freeza's armor is also an evidence of how his characterization is totally wrong. He wears it everytime, even to train at the gravity's room, while he didn't wear it anytime in Boo Saga, because it was part of his past, part of the cold-blood killer Vegeta. GT's Vegeta is the natural progression of the character, both on design and personality.

Wait, wouldn't him putting his pride down to get training from another person be a sign of said development. Because I don't think pre buu arc vegeta would do that.


Vegeta fought without thinking in the buu saga too, hell in movies 12 and 13, he did that exact same thing. He also didn't want to do the fusion dance even though the world was in danger.


Also that conversation was just him asking Goku questions about the tournament, you know fighting. Because Goku never said goodbye to vegeta in the manga.


The saiyan armor is for nostalgia sake, he wore the underarmor and the boots in the buu saga and no he doesn't wear it all the time, he wears his blue collar and khakis most of the time except when he is fighting or training.
You lose points here.


GT Vegeta did NOTHING of value and you want to know why, because he had no drive, he had nothing to fight for and don't you dare say his family. Thats Gohan's thing.
He was just a overprotected father. Thats the Vegeta you wanted. Cool, but if super does do that, don't cry for relevancy.

Pointing a problem in movies 12 and 13 will not justifie Super's problems.

I know he wears the armor because it's the most iconnic one, but it doesn't match with his development, it's an error. One of the thousands of erros the production team commites in every episode. And you can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times he didn't wear it.

GT Vegeta has nothing to fight for because his arc was already concluded in DBZ. And it never bothered me the fact he didn't have "relevancy" in GT, precisely because I recognize it.

[ABED]

GT Vegeta has nothing to fight for because his arc was already concluded in DBZ.

To be the best he can be. Goku is constantly training, not simply to fight off an impending big bad. He does so for its own sake. It's who he is. Vegeta admonished Gohan for taking it easy in the peace time before the Buu arc. Goku was also annoyed by it. His arc is that he's no longer insecure about Goku being better. It's not that he doesn't have any drive whatsoever.

[Totamo]

No. "Vegeta domesticated" is the way he looks NOW, obeying everything Bills and Bulma tell him to do. That's another point that proves how inconsistent the character is. In battle moments he is Cell arc's Vegeta, fight without thinking, being proud, ignoring Goku's knowledge (but, in this point, I don't blame him, since DBS' Goku is a complete dumbass), but, in everyday life (am I using this term correctly?), he even wore a maid costume.

Look at EoZ, when Goku is having a conversation with him, he even smiles, they're two real friends having a conversation. He is not that angry and irrational guy anymore. For God's sake, his development in Boo Arc was entirely about this. The fact he wears Freeza's armor is also an evidence of how his characterization is totally wrong. He wears it everytime, even to train at the gravity's room, while he didn't wear it anytime in Boo Saga, because it was part of his past, part of the cold-blood killer Vegeta. GT's Vegeta is the natural progression of the character, both on design and personality.

Wait, wouldn't him putting his pride down to get training from another person be a sign of said development. Because I don't think pre buu arc vegeta would do that.


Vegeta fought without thinking in the buu saga too, hell in movies 12 and 13, he did that exact same thing. He also didn't want to do the fusion dance even though the world was in danger.


Also that conversation was just him asking Goku questions about the tournament, you know fighting. Because Goku never said goodbye to vegeta in the manga.


The saiyan armor is for nostalgia sake, he wore the underarmor and the boots in the buu saga and no he doesn't wear it all the time, he wears his blue collar and khakis most of the time except when he is fighting or training.
You lose points here.


GT Vegeta did NOTHING of value and you want to know why, because he had no drive, he had nothing to fight for and don't you dare say his family. Thats Gohan's thing.
He was just a overprotected father. Thats the Vegeta you wanted. Cool, but if super does do that, don't cry for relevancy.

Pointing a problem in movies 12 and 13 will not justifie Super's problems.

I know he wears the armor because it's the most iconnic one, but it doesn't match with his development, it's an error. One of the thousands of erros the production team commites in every episode. And you can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times he didn't wear it.

GT Vegeta has nothing to fight for because his arc was already concluded in DBZ. And it never bothered me the fact he didn't have "relevancy" in GT, precisely because I recognize it.

1. I don't find it a problem. I never did. you however did.

2. What does the armor have to do with his development? He is a saiyan warrior. What should he wear? A tracksuit? A gi? Would you like Geets in a Gi

3.YOU said he wore it all the time, thats a lie. thats all i wanted to prove

4. You may not have had an issue but most of the vegeta fanbase did. The same fanbase that are mad Goku is getting a new transformation. The same ones who want Vegeta to beat a main villain. All of that requires him to be relevant.




I will never lie and say that Super doesn't, AT TIMES, have problems with flanderization and regression of some characters, but Vegeta has shown to be a nice guy, plenty of times. Some even say he is nicer than Goku now. Not super Goku, z Goku.

[Trickster]

Wait, wouldn't him putting his pride down to get training from another person be a sign of said development. Because I don't think pre buu arc vegeta would do that.


Vegeta fought without thinking in the buu saga too, hell in movies 12 and 13, he did that exact same thing. He also didn't want to do the fusion dance even though the world was in danger.


Also that conversation was just him asking Goku questions about the tournament, you know fighting. Because Goku never said goodbye to vegeta in the manga.


The saiyan armor is for nostalgia sake, he wore the underarmor and the boots in the buu saga and no he doesn't wear it all the time, he wears his blue collar and khakis most of the time except when he is fighting or training.
You lose points here.


GT Vegeta did NOTHING of value and you want to know why, because he had no drive, he had nothing to fight for and don't you dare say his family. Thats Gohan's thing.
He was just a overprotected father. Thats the Vegeta you wanted. Cool, but if super does do that, don't cry for relevancy.

Pointing a problem in movies 12 and 13 will not justifie Super's problems.

I know he wears the armor because it's the most iconnic one, but it doesn't match with his development, it's an error. One of the thousands of erros the production team commites in every episode. And you can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times he didn't wear it.

GT Vegeta has nothing to fight for because his arc was already concluded in DBZ. And it never bothered me the fact he didn't have "relevancy" in GT, precisely because I recognize it.

1. I don't find it a problem. I never did. you however did.

2. What does the armor have to do with his development? He is a saiyan warrior. What should he wear? A tracksuit? A gi? Would you like Geets in a Gi

3.YOU said he wore it all the time, thats a lie. thats all i wanted to prove

4. You may not have had an issue but most of the vegeta fanbase did. The same fanbase that are mad Goku is getting a new transformation. The same ones who want Vegeta to beat a main villain. All of that requires him to be relevant.




I will never lie and say that Super doesn't, AT TIMES, have problems with flanderization and regression of some characters, but Vegeta has shown to be a nice guy, plenty of times. Some even say he is nicer than Goku now. Not super Goku, z Goku.

2- The fact he left out FREEZA'S ARMY armor indicated he was becoming more and more human through the series. This is what conflicted inside of him, in the beginning of Buu Saga and served as a catalyzor to Majin Vegeta's stuff. This is what Vegeta's arc is about. The progression from a man who wouldn't even care if his wife and son died, to a good man who knows what is right and who is mature enough to recognize Goku as an equal, not as someone who he HAS TO surpass.

3- Yes, I said, because it's true. The number of times he doesn't wear it is so small you can count on the fingers of one hand.

[Trickster]

GT Vegeta has nothing to fight for because his arc was already concluded in DBZ.

To be the best he can be. Goku is constantly training, not simply to fight off an impending big bad. He does so for its own sake. It's who he is. Vegeta admonished Gohan for taking it easy in the peace time before the Buu arc. Goku was also annoyed by it. His arc is that he's no longer insecure about Goku being better. It's not that he doesn't have any drive whatsoever.

In GT Vegeta stopped training at all? I don't remember that. If he did, yeah, I consider it a problem too.

[ABED]

GT Vegeta has nothing to fight for because his arc was already concluded in DBZ.

To be the best he can be. Goku is constantly training, not simply to fight off an impending big bad. He does so for its own sake. It's who he is. Vegeta admonished Gohan for taking it easy in the peace time before the Buu arc. Goku was also annoyed by it. His arc is that he's no longer insecure about Goku being better. It's not that he doesn't have any drive whatsoever.

In GT Vegeta stopped training at all? I don't remember that. If he did, yeah, I consider it a problem too.

We have so little to go on. Given how he's dressed and his overall demeanor, he seems uninterested in his training until the Evil Dragons arc.

[superfan2024]

He would act as he acts in movies 12 e 13 and in EoZ. They are friends now, he understood his acts in favor of his pride were selfish and inconsequent. He respect Goku as an equal, as a"hook" that inspire him to improve himself always, not as someone who is competing with him.

He improves because he wants to be like Goku. Thats not, well entertaining.


Here is the thing: Vegeta never would have improved himself unless he is trying to surpass Goku. I always bring this up and people ignore me. Vegeta was that character in GT and he did nothing of merit. He didn't even improve himself and it took a shortcut to achieve power. That Vegeta was boring.


You want Vegeta domesticated.

No. "Vegeta domesticated" is the way he looks NOW, obeying everything Bills and Bulma tell him to do. That's another point that proves how inconsistent the character is. In battle moments he is Cell arc's Vegeta, fight without thinking, being proud, ignoring Goku's knowledge (but, in this point, I don't blame him, since DBS' Goku is a complete dumbass), but, in everyday life (am I using this term correctly?), he even wore a maid costume.

Look at EoZ, when Goku is having a conversation with him, he even smiles, they're two real friends having a conversation. He is not that angry and irrational guy anymore. For God's sake, his development in Boo Arc was entirely about this. The fact he wears Freeza's armor is also an evidence of how his characterization is totally wrong. He wears it everytime, even to train at the gravity's room, while he didn't wear it anytime in Boo Saga, because it was part of his past, part of the cold-blood killer Vegeta. GT's Vegeta is the natural progression of the character, both on design and personality.

No, you're just making up assumptions for why he is wearing his armor. Enough with the armor being about his cold blooded past or what not. The armor is his, he can wear it whenever he wants to, it's his Saiyan armor, his race, his heritage. Last time I checked, when Vegeta was fighting off against Black/Fused Zamasu (manga) Vegeta was definately his post Buu-arc self and was still wearing his Saiyan armor.

Okay, Vegeta smiles at Goku so that proves that Vegeta is not an angry person anymore? So what? Vegeta smiles at Goku at the very end of Resurrection 'F' and their teamwork is still funky. Vegeta's whole entire character arc in the Buu arc was to let his arrogance go and to tone his pride down a notch so that he can see reality and not always beleive that he will always win each and every one of his battles, that is the reason why Vegeta made his No.1 speech about Goku. He knew Goku was stronger than him at that period, and he knew that if there was someone who could stop Buu, it was Goku. Even when King Yemma revived Vegeta, Vegeta knew himself that he was no match for Buu and even claimed that there was no point for him in being resurrected because he knew that he would die again. Heck, in the manga, Vegeta even knew and understood that Goku was the only one capable of fighting against Fused Zamasu, and so that was the reason why he let Trunks heal Goku instead of himself. Vegeta knows that Goku is usually one step ahead of him, but that doesn't stop Vegeta from trying to surpass Goku. Just watch Super's episode 2 and Resurrection 'F'.

[sintzu]

In GT Vegeta stopped training at all? I don't remember that. If he did, yeah, I consider it a problem too.

He had 15 years to get Ssj3 yet he didn't have it so he most likely wasn't doing much. At the start he had that stupid mustach which I doubt was something he trained with.

[Asura]

Neither GT or Super gets Vegeta's character perfectly, but I'd say GT comes a lot closer to what Vegeta's character should be than Super does. Vegeta in Super still feels like a child throwing a tempter tantrum. "Waah wahh can't let Kakarott surpass me, waahh waahh my pride, waah waahh ENTIRE UNIVERSE IS AT STAKE? NAH FUCK THAT I AM VEGETA SAMA I AM THE BEST I CAN DO EVERYTHING!"

The thing that GT flat out misses with Vegeta is that it seems to imply he's not really been doing that much training. Somehow he still can't go SSJ3 and appears about as weak as everyone else that isn't Goku. Aside from that though, GT Vegeta's personality and temperament are far more logical and superior to that of Super Vegeta's. He treats Goku as a friend and an ally as opposed to just being the tsundere dumbass that he is in Super towards Goku. There's no place for Vegeta to even be Goku's rival anymore now that the series keeps introducing us to these characters who are not evil but are antagonists who can be rivals, such as with Hit and probably Jiren. Instead of making Vegeta Goku's rival, why not have them be friends, and give each one their own rival? There's no reason why it couldn't have been played out to be where Hit is Vegeta's rival and Jiren is Goku's. It would certainly shake things up having a dynamic like that.

I don't know why so many people think that Vegeta should not get any development at all and should just remain this stubborn, arrogant, prideful prick for the entirety of any spin-offs ever made. These traits should always be present in Vegeta, but they should not define him like they did in the Saiyan, Freeza, Cell, and start of the Buu saga. At the end of the Buu saga and EoZ as well as GT we see he is still stubborn, still arrogant, still prideful, and can still be a prick, but he's actually evolved and matured in other ways too. Vegeta gets some good character development in the Future Trunks arc of Super that shows how much he's changed in his attitude towards Trunks and how he just values family now more in general, but otherwise he's been pretty boring and typical in every single other arc.

These are the same people who think Goku should not get any development at all either. He's always been an immature dumb selfish manchild who doesn't really give a fuck about family and friends when it comes to fighting, so why would someone ever write him differently? Well GT Goku was written differently, and it works spectacularly. It feels like logical development, especially how we see him progress from the beginning of Z to the end and then GT. Super doesn't have any development for Goku whatsoever. It can be argued it even has negative development for him since he acts stupider and goofier than before.

It's interesting to see how Super simply can not handle the three main DBZ characters (Goku, Gohan, Vegeta) and development them in any kind of way. GT completely fucked up on Gohan, but at least they could turn Goku and Vegeta into something interesting and logical coming off of the Buu saga ending, which is more than I can say about how Super has been handling the two characters. I guess at least Super is starting to pull ahead now in terms of Gohan development since he's actually doing something. That's more than we can say about the entirety of GT and the entirety of Super before this arc.