"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[Kanassa]

I think he is talking about episode 103 with Gohan but that was a bit of a crap strategy against Obuni since it was just seeing who could take the most punches.

How is that a crap strategy? It worked. Because it required Gohan's attributes? That's how you make a strategy, by looking at what you have and planning out how it can be used against the problem.

That is just like any plain fight where whoever has more strength wins. He will need more than that if he is going to beat anyone better and after his clueless performance defending against the sniper he is going to struggle.

That was a strategy. He examined his opponents abilities and planned out how he could use his endurance to counter attack. That is a strategy.

[namekiansaiyan]

What did Gohan and Piccolo even do in 106? It was more of an exposition of their opponents abilities than strategy.

I re-watched the episode and I'm actually pretty pleased with Piccolo's performance. Even if it didn't end up being his win, how he quickly analyzes the situation, how he comes up with the idea to find out where the sniper is, the smokescreen, figuring out it could locate it's targets using body heat and then how to counter it- the first half actually has a lot going for him despite the limb losing bit. If people looked past the sacrifice scene, you'll see he did fairly well for someone who wasn't supposed to be the highlight of the episode.

The sacrifice scene made whatever plans he had go to waste,him being carefull enough and analyzing the situation so he could not get hit does not mean anything when he ends up taking a hit anyways.
Worse thing is those hits he took were not even his fault,it was Gohan's.

That means Piccolo looked good and Gohan looked bad. This episode just showed how quickly Piccolo thinks and that Gohab can't think that quick.

[Michsi]

What did Gohan and Piccolo even do in 106? It was more of an exposition of their opponents abilities than strategy.

I re-watched the episode and I'm actually pretty pleased with Piccolo's performance. Even if it didn't end up being his win, how he quickly analyzes the situation, how he comes up with the idea to find out where the sniper is, the smokescreen, figuring out it could locate it's targets using body heat and then how to counter it- the first half actually has a lot going for him despite the limb losing bit. If people looked past the sacrifice scene, you'll see he did fairly well for someone who wasn't supposed to be the highlight of the episode.

The sacrifice scene made whatever plans he had go to waste,him being carefull enough and analyzing the situation so he could not get hit does not mean anything when he ends up taking a hit anyways.
Worse thing is those hits he took were not even his fault,it was Gohan's.

That's the thing, because it wasn't him misjudging the situation, it doesn't take away from his performance. The sacrifice scene fails because it doesn't deliver the emotional punch they were going for, and because it makes Gohan look bad. I feel like the meat shield jab is more directed at the writers than the character.

Maybe the writers are trying to help smooth things over for when Piccolo will eventually get eliminated, since they really tried to hammer home the notion that all that regenerating took a lot out of him. I bet they'll use this as a reason for him losing against his next opponent. They did something similar to when he got booted off the stage by Vegeta. Basically it's not entirely his fault that he ends up losing.

[Simere]

Anyone remember that Gohan's the team leader? How's that going?

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Anyone remember that Gohan's the team leader? How's that going?

Goku was just messing, that was pretty evident in the first episode.

[namekiansaiyan]

I re-watched the episode and I'm actually pretty pleased with Piccolo's performance. Even if it didn't end up being his win, how he quickly analyzes the situation, how he comes up with the idea to find out where the sniper is, the smokescreen, figuring out it could locate it's targets using body heat and then how to counter it- the first half actually has a lot going for him despite the limb losing bit. If people looked past the sacrifice scene, you'll see he did fairly well for someone who wasn't supposed to be the highlight of the episode.

The sacrifice scene made whatever plans he had go to waste,him being carefull enough and analyzing the situation so he could not get hit does not mean anything when he ends up taking a hit anyways.
Worse thing is those hits he took were not even his fault,it was Gohan's.

That's the thing, because it wasn't him misjudging the situation, it doesn't take away from his performance. The sacrifice scene fails because it doesn't deliver the emotional punch they were going for, and because it makes Gohan look bad. I feel like the meat shield jab is more directed at the writers than the character.

Maybe the writers are trying to help smooth things over for when Piccolo will eventually get eliminated, since they really tried to hammer home the notion that all that regenerating took a lot out of him. I bet they'll use this as a reason for him losing against his next opponent. They did something similar to when he got booted off the stage by Vegeta. Basically it's not entirely his fault that he ends up loosing.

Only if Toriyama says so but I think the next time we see Piccolo it will be like it never happemed as this seems like a 100% Toei addition. Dyspo is in action next episode who was tired but looks good. Roshi, Caulifla and Kale are characters that have definitely lost some stamina.

Anyone remember that Gohan's the team leader? How's that going?

Goku was just messing, that was pretty evident in the first episode.

Toei failed in trying to make him leader the second they put him together with Piccolo throughout the tournament.

[sintzu]

Anyone remember that Gohan's the team leader? How's that going?

It never started to begin with. It seems like it was just another false hype gimmick.

[Arugela]

Maybe the teamwork thing is making fun of modern video games and similar amounts of teamwork seen in real life. Everyone splits up. The leader goes off and does his own thing with a few people he knows. Everyone else just runs around like chickens with their heads cut off.. Was he playing wow or something before he made this episode?

Or is everyone assuming the whole gohan is teamleader is some sort of throwback to those online videos about how bad goku is as a father?

Goku: Son, your in charge!
Gohan: REALLY?!?!
Goku: You bet!

Gohan: Here's the plan: .........

Hours later.

Gohan: Ready!?
Goku: Everyone run this way!!
Gohan: .....
Goku: LEEERRRRROOOOOYYYYY JEEEEEEEEEENNNNKIIINNNNNNNNSSSSS!!!!!!!

Later:
Goku: Gohan did notice I said your and not you're right? Maybe Chi chi was right. He needs to study more!

[Whatever]

I re-watched the episode and I'm actually pretty pleased with Piccolo's performance. Even if it didn't end up being his win, how he quickly analyzes the situation, how he comes up with the idea to find out where the sniper is, the smokescreen, figuring out it could locate it's targets using body heat and then how to counter it- the first half actually has a lot going for him despite the limb losing bit. If people looked past the sacrifice scene, you'll see he did fairly well for someone who wasn't supposed to be the highlight of the episode.

The sacrifice scene made whatever plans he had go to waste,him being carefull enough and analyzing the situation so he could not get hit does not mean anything when he ends up taking a hit anyways.
Worse thing is those hits he took were not even his fault,it was Gohan's.

That's the thing, because it wasn't him misjudging the situation, it doesn't take away from his performance. The sacrifice scene fails because it doesn't deliver the emotional punch they were going for, and because it makes Gohan look bad. I feel like the meat shield jab is more directed at the writers than the character.

Maybe the writers are trying to help smooth things over for when Piccolo will eventually get eliminated, since they really tried to hammer home the notion that all that regenerating took a lot out of him. I bet they'll use this as a reason for him losing against his next opponent. They did something similar to when he got booted off the stage by Vegeta. Basically it's not entirely his fault that he ends up losing.

It does because his perfomance amounts to nothing in the end due to him not being able to keep carrying his plan because he has to protect Gohan.
And yes the jab is on his character since he ends up being Gohan's meatshield despite his effort/perfomance.Heck the 1st half of the episode was Piccolo torture porn with him losing 3 arms.

Do you relieve believe stamina matters that much as they are making it out to be?With Goku being in like 15 fights and him turning blue for the simpliest thing?
Heck in the same episode he struggled to regenerate an arm the first time,then in the second time he regenerated 2 arms with less effort and struggle than the 1st time.

The stamina problem has 99% chance to be gone by the next time he fights,the reason he lost 3 arms to begin with is because he is the only one who can regenerate and for 'drama'.
Its better for him to go down as a fighter instead of going down as Gohan's meatshield.

[BlueBasilisk]

Anyone remember that Gohan's the team leader? How's that going?

It never started to begin with. It seems like it was just another false hype gimmick.

I never got what Goku saw in Gohan to make him the team leader in the first place. Now I'm convinced he did it so that he and the other strong warriors could fight without needing to protect Tien, Krillin, and Roshi the entire time. And instead Piccolo keeps protecting Gohan.

[alakazam^]

It does because his perfomance amounts to nothing in the end due to him not being able to keep carrying his plan because he has to protect Gohan.

Amounting to nothing doesn't make his reasoning and his effort disappear.

Some of you seem obsessed with things needing to have "meaning" or having a "point". Just let the characters be characters, the story isn't being told to stroke your egos.

[Bullza]

It doesn't count cause he was a villain? Lol of course it counts. That's the best win he has in the entire series. He didn't beat Freeza though. That fight ended when Freeza blew up earth and killed Vegeta, thus scoring a second win on Vegeta. Even when they reversed time, Goku interrupted that fight and killed Freeza instead. After Vegeta stomped Black, Black proceeded to overwhelm both Vegeta and Goku with clones anyway and get a power up himself, hardly seems any better than Cell proving his superiority over Vegeta when Black himself held both Goku and Vegeta at bay regardless. So you mention them as mere underlings, but want to try and sell that Frost, Magetta and Cabba were powerful dudes? It doesn't work that way. The people he beat in the tournament were all second tier fighters same as it was on Namek. Devaluing the opponents on Namek to suit your argument doesn't work. Goku losing as well doesn't mean Vegeta was treated better. He lost to Beerus and had to watch Goku outperform him.

Goku did all the work against Freeza and the best Vegeta gets is beating up on Goku's sloppy seconds and he gets killed anyway and Goku has to save his ass anyway. Next saga has him clean house on second tier fighters and then gets demolished by Hitto only to watch Base Goku outperform him. Next saga, he's the first to fall to SSR Black, and Goku does put in a better performance there. Vegeta eventually puts in a better performance against Black, but gets overwhelmed by clones, then uses a Father-Son Galick Gun on M-Zamasu, only for Goku to shit on that and outperform that. Vegeta ended that saga getting outperformed watching both Goku and Trunks outperform him. You can call Freeza a coward, but that was a life or death fight. He killed and defeated Vegeta. Vegeta lost a fight he very well should have won. Not really sure how he gets treated any differently in Super than in Z.

Well of course when he's a main villain himself and the focus is on him he's gonna get something big there, that's inevitable for all main villains.

Vegeta beat up Frieza and because Frieza knew he was going to be defeated and killed by him he blew up the planet. Of course Goku would have had to step in afterwards to finish him off because Vegeta wouldn't have been aware of what he did unlike Goku.

Black didn't really overwhelm Vegeta afterwards. Goku and Vegeta destroyed a whole bunch of clones that kept coming back that's all. Very different from Cell where Cell proceeded to beat Vegeta unconscious. Then someone else even stronger had to step in, which happened all the time in Z.

The Universe 6 fighters were powerful, that doesn't need to be sold. They are amongst the strongest beings in an entire universe and he beat all of them back to back. Very different from Zarbon, Dodoria and Cui just being henchmen.

Even more different considering that Zarbon beat the tar out of Vegeta the first time and the second time Vegeta had to catch him off guard to beat him. Then he went to fight Recoome who also beat the tar out of him. Then Ginyu shows up and he ran off like a punk.

Goku only put up a better fight against Hit because he saw Vegeta fight him and he went to others to ask for hints. He had information Vegeta didn't. While overall Goku still better than Vegeta, Vegeta is not treated as a punk in order to make everyone else seem better nearly as often as portrayed in Z. Nobody has beat him so badly that he's cried yet.

[Whatever]

It does because his perfomance amounts to nothing in the end due to him not being able to keep carrying his plan because he has to protect Gohan.

Amounting to nothing doesn't make his reasoning and his effort disappear.

Some of you seem obsessed with things needing to have "meaning" or having a "point". Just let the characters be characters, the story isn't being told to stroke your egos.

Yes amounting to nothing make his effort dissapear since he wasted effort that will not pay off.

And thats the PROBLEM,at this episode piccolo was not treated as his own character but as Gohan's meatshield.

[Michsi]

It does because his perfomance amounts to nothing in the end due to him not being able to keep carrying his plan because he has to protect Gohan.
And yes the jab is on his character since he ends up being Gohan's meatshield despite his effort/perfomance.Heck the 1st half of the episode was Piccolo torture porn with him losing 3 arms.

Do you relieve believe stamina matters that much as they are making it out to be?With Goku being in like 15 fights and him turning blue for the simpliest thing?
Heck in the same episode he struggled to regenerate an arm the first time,then in the second time he regenerated 2 arms with less effort and struggle than the 1st time.

The stamina problem has 99% chance to be gone by the next time he fights,the reason he lost 3 arms to begin with is because he is the only one who can regenerate and for 'drama'.
Its better for him to go down as a fighter instead of going down as Gohan's meatshield.

I guess we have different view points then on what effects the perception of a character and what doesn't. The reason I don't see it as a jab at Piccolo directly is because an overly protective nature or being willing to lay down your life for someone you care about isn't intrinsically bad. It's just been done before to the point that it feels ridiculous instead of dramatic.

I mean, I'm someone that likes the relationship between Piccolo and Gohan, I like the fact that he will do anything to protect him, but even I got annoyed at that scene. I got annoyed at the pointless death in the ROF arc too.

But I disagree with the torture porn statement. Yes, him losing three arms in on episode was overkill, but it didn't take away from everything he did beside getting damaged. I very much enjoyed seeing him basically go from one idea to other: using the rock to test a theory, analyzing the shot, using a method to help pinpoint the direction the shot was coming from without giving away their location, using the smokescreen, realizing how the tracking device works, figuring out how to mask body heat. The only reason it fails in the end was because the opponent had a unforeseen ability.

But I do agree with that last part. Yes, I do want him to go down as a fighter, and not while protecting Gohan. Maybe them pulling this card in 106 means they will not do it again later. Hopefully.

Anyone remember that Gohan's the team leader? How's that going?

It never started to begin with. It seems like it was just another false hype gimmick.

I never got what Goku saw in Gohan to make him the team leader in the first place. Now I'm convinced he did it so that he and the other strong warriors could fight without needing to protect Tien, Krillin, and Roshi the entire time. And instead Piccolo keeps protecting Gohan.

It's actually kind of cruel when you think about it. If I remember the scene well, Goku telling Gohan he is the leader was somewhat of a special moment. Like it was supposed to represent him acknowledging Gohan's abilities. I felt kinda sorry for Gohan when Goku just shot off without a second glance in his direction. Once that happened the whole team thing just fell apart.

[namekiansaiyan]

Toei should ban themselves from having Piccolo protect Gohan.

If Gohan couldn't take the attack in episode 106 then he doesn't deserve to stay in.

At least they are currently not fighting together and are only walking together.

I DO NOT WANT GOHAN NEAR ANY OF PICCOLO'S FIGHT'S AND PICCOLO ABSOLUTELY NOWHERE NEAR GOHAN'S FIGHTS.

[TheSaiyanGod]

Vegeta needs to at least defeat someone of his level or have a standout fight. A rematch against Hitto and a fight against Toppo are examples

I'm all with that, I despise Vegeta attitude acting all cocky and shit like his pre Majin self, but I recognize it would be a waste to have him eliminated so soon.

I can not understand why he is acting like this in this Saga. He was not so arrogant before. Either TOEI wants to create some kind of nostalgia about DBZ, which is not really working (or want to use that arrogance as a reason to eliminate it early)

Vegeta is not confirmed to fight Hit at all and Toshio just said he would like to see the fight.

The are not many top tier fighters left for Vegeta to face and many do not have a connection to him.

Of possible characters that Vegeta can face, we have Hitto, Toppo or Dyspo. Against Hitto he does have a certain connection and the will to want to revenge

[incarnati0n]

Toei should ban themselves from having Piccolo protect Gohan.

If Gohan couldn't take the attack in episode 106 then he doesn't deserve to stay in.

At least they are currently not fighting together and are only walking together.

I DO NOT WANT GOHAN NEAR ANY OF PICCOLO'S FIGHT'S AND PICCOLO ABSOLUTELY NOWHERE NEAR GOHAN'S FIGHTS.

Hopefully the writers trying to emphasize the stamina drain Piccolo has due to regenarating his limbs isn't used as the reason why for an eventual loss to the U6 namekians. Maybe they could make Gohan be occupied by some other fighter and Piccolo pulls out the 1v2 by himself managing to eliminate them in some way but being completely exhausted after. This way he would get his big moment and he would do something independent from Gohan.

[HeroR]

Yeah....you'd have to be reaching hard (and I mean, really hard) to consider what Vegeta did against Frieza a "win".

That was a superficial bone thrown to him, nothing more, nothing less. He still ends up dying to Frieza, and Goku finishes Frieza off.

In no world is that a "victory" for Vegeta.

It's incredibly reaching indeed. Makes no sense to call that a good moment for Vegeta. Goku endures the beating Freeza gives him and goes on to about to defeat him until Sorbet steps in. Vegeta beats down an already fatigued and battle-worn fighter but fails to get the job done and gets killed. So then time rewinds via Whis and Goku has to save Vegeta. Like I have no idea how that's a win for Veggie.

And worse, Goku is forever branded as a steal-killer. Because Goku is such a glory hog, he should of let the Earth stay destroy instead of taking Vegeta's moment...or something.

Because this strategy was a waste of screen time and didn't amount to anything, when Goku knows Instant Transmission and could just like, punch them both out.

What did Gohan and Piccolo even do in 106? It was more of an exposition of their opponents abilities than strategy.

It was said in the episode that they couldn't sense the sniper, which is why Goku couldn't teleport. They only found the blob since he was right in the open glowing. And yes, the episode was about the opponent using clever strategy to overwhelmed several superior fighters.

[Hawk9211]

How is that a crap strategy? It worked. Because it required Gohan's attributes? That's how you make a strategy, by looking at what you have and planning out how it can be used against the problem.

That is just like any plain fight where whoever has more strength wins. He will need more than that if he is going to beat anyone better and after his clueless performance defending against the sniper he is going to struggle.

That was a strategy. He examined his opponents abilities and planned out how he could use his endurance to counter attack. That is a strategy.

You can use a atom bomb to eliminate a single person but I would not call that a strategy even it works

[HeroR]

That was a strategy. He examined his opponents abilities and planned out how he could use his endurance to counter attack. That is a strategy.

You can use a atom bomb to eliminate a single person but I would not call that a strategy even it works[/quote]

That's kinda overdoing it. Although Gohan went Ultimate, I doubt that was closed to his full power. Although Gohan's strategy wasn't a work of genius and I wished he did something else, one can't argue about the results.