"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[sintzu]

What these Namekian fans probably don't realize is the fact that the new Namekians would have so much of a better showcasing facing off against powerhouses like Goku, Vegeta, or even Android 17 and Ultimate Gohan versus some weakling nobody like Piccolo.

If they can have Krillin go up against a SsjB Goku then they could make Piccolo strong as well. They just do whatever they want so why would they stop now ?

[Hawk9211]

What these Namekian fans probably don't realize is the fact that the new Namekians would have so much of a better showcasing facing off against powerhouses like Goku, Vegeta, or even Android 17 and Ultimate Gohan (all fighters who are presumably SSB-tier), versus some weakling nobody like Piccolo. From a power standpoint, even if these Namekians barely win against Piccolo, at best that would likely put them only slightly above Buuhan and possibly SSJ Vegetto, both of whom are presumably fodders by Super standards.

Seriously though, those Namekians are far better off facing off against one of the SSB-tier fighters mentioned above (Goku, Vegeta, Android 17 and Gohan). Since Piccolo is now worlds below Android 17, maybe one of these new Namekians could take his place and give Android 17 the Namekian vs Android rematch so many fans have been waiting for. I doubt there's much going for Piccolo other than going down for Gohan, something that many fans have already speculated.

We want them to be as strong as Goku so Piccolo can get a lot stronger and maybe just like how Cabba was taught by Vegeta they could teach Piccolo as well.

I have also speculated that 17 could lose to the Piccolo lookalike to show that Piccolo would have won there fight.

Do not put 17 and Gohan at Goku's and Vegeta's level since they are nowhere near them.

You call Piccolo a weakling nobody but he saved Gohan's butt and if he didn't Gohan would have been finished.

If Piccolo was here just to go down for Gohan then why would Toei have him do it already in episode 106 since it would ruin it later unless you think he is going to end up doing it twice.

Look at Future Trunks, in the anime he was very overpowered and involved with everything while in the manga he took a back seat to most of the events.

If Toei can change things then they won't waste an opportunity to have 2 Namekians be good at fighting.

Problem is if they're as strong as Goku then Piccolo is going to get dumpstered by them.

I can live with that if they are even super saiyan red level.

[supercat]

What these Namekian fans probably don't realize is the fact that the new Namekians would have so much of a better showcasing facing off against powerhouses like Goku, Vegeta, or even Android 17 and Ultimate Gohan (all fighters who are presumably SSB-tier), versus some weakling nobody like Piccolo. From a power standpoint, even if these Namekians barely win against Piccolo, at best that would likely put them only slightly above Buuhan and possibly SSJ Vegetto, both of whom are presumably fodders by Super standards.

Seriously though, those Namekians are far better off facing off against one of the SSB-tier fighters mentioned above (Goku, Vegeta, Android 17 and Gohan). Since Piccolo is now worlds below Android 17, maybe one of these new Namekians could take his place and give Android 17 the Namekian vs Android rematch so many fans have been waiting for. I doubt there's much going for Piccolo other than going down for Gohan, something that many fans have already speculated.

We want them to be as strong as Goku so Piccolo can get a lot stronger and maybe just like how Cabba was taught by Vegeta they could teach Piccolo as well.

I have also speculated that 17 could lose to the Piccolo lookalike to show that Piccolo would have won there fight.

Do not put 17 and Gohan at Goku's and Vegeta's level since they are nowhere near them.

You call Piccolo a weakling nobody but he saved Gohan's butt and if he didn't Gohan would have been finished.

If Piccolo was here just to go down for Gohan then why would Toei have him do it already in episode 106 since it would ruin it later unless you think he is going to end up doing it twice.

Well the only way they would look half decent is if it was a one-sided beat down where they just flat-out humiliated Piccolo. Otherwise, if it's even anything close to a fight, we can speculate that they're quite low on the power scale. Again, at best guessing that would place them slightly above the Buu saga. In fact, I would hate to see them debut as such weaklings that they barely tangle with Piccolo.

Android 17 and Gohan both held their own against SSB Goku, and there's nothing else really refuting that at this point. Not to mention, Android 17 wasn't even going all out. Neither was Goku, but judging by their expressions and such, it seemed Goku was exerting a greater deal of effort. If SSB Goku is a 10, I would have Android 17 at around 8.5 - 9 and Gohan right about there or a notch below even (8 - 8.5).

It wasn't Piccolo's strength that saved Gohan. More like his dedication as a mentor/friend and his keen alertness.

Even if Piccolo doesn't go down saving Gohan, at this point, I have a hard time seeing him doing anything even close to what the top contenders are capable of.

Power-wise, I have Piccolo around SSJ Vegetto (Buu saga), and that's probably as generous as it gets. Especially compared to the ridiculous speculations that he's barely above Super Perfect Cell. But either way, he's no where near the likes of characters like Android 17 or Gohan.

[namekiansaiyan]

Problem is if they're as strong as Goku then Piccolo is going to get dumpstered by them.

If they are that strong then either:

1. Piccolo show why he is the master strategist
2. Piccolo is hiding power
3. The Vegeta Cabba scenario again
4. There are 2 so maybe a tag team
5. They could be the real big players of the tournament and Saonel is a tribute to Toriyama's first big Villian in the series (King Piccolo).

If Toei can change things then they won't waste an opportunity to have 2 Namekians be good at fighting.

They haven't showed anything from them so I think (and hope) it's because they're saving them for later but on the other hand, it seems like the torunament is coming to an end so they and everyone else we haven't seen could end up out the ring by Jerin as a way to show how strong he is and how "great" Goku is for stopping him (which is something they've been doing since Champa's arc).

If we don't see them in episode 108 then Jiren is doing nothing to them.

[supercat]

What these Namekian fans probably don't realize is the fact that the new Namekians would have so much of a better showcasing facing off against powerhouses like Goku, Vegeta, or even Android 17 and Ultimate Gohan versus some weakling nobody like Piccolo.

If they can have Krillin go up against a SsjB Goku then they could make Piccolo strong as well. They just do whatever they want so why would they stop now ?

I have no issue with them powering up Piccolo. In fact, I don't think anyone deserves a power up more than he does. I'm sure many people here know by now that I have no problem with characters getting 100x stronger with mere training. I see it as story progression. Plus it was done in Z, so why not now?

The issue I have with Piccolo fighting on par with those Namekians is it happening without any indication of where they stand in power, as it would make them look like complete garbage in terms of power. I personally have Piccolo as high as SSJ Vegetto from the Buu saga (and no, I am not interested in another endless power debate), but some people seem to place him as low as Super Perfect Cell, so imagine how weak the new Namekians would look if they were somehow challenged by someone as weak as Piccolo

Now, let's say we're given one statement or even one solid indication that the new Namekians are SSB-tier and Piccolo fights evenly with them. This I have no issue with, as I would just assume Piccolo powered up while training with Gohan.

[sintzu]

The issue I have with Piccolo fighting on par with those Namekians is it happening without any indication of where they stand in power, as it would make them look like complete garbage in terms of power.

I personally have Piccolo as high as SSJ Vegetto from the Buu saga but some people seem to place him as low as Super Perfect Cell.

This is a good point. We'd get the Piccolo screen time we want but lose who could've been great fighters while on the flip side sacrifice Piccolo getting important screen time to get good Namakians.

Vegetto's level is over kill, putting him on Super Perfect Cell's level is really stretching things.

[supercat]

The issue I have with Piccolo fighting on par with those Namekians is it happening without any indication of where they stand in power, as it would make them look like complete garbage in terms of power.

I personally have Piccolo as high as SSJ Vegetto from the Buu saga but some people seem to place him as low as Super Perfect Cell.

This is a good point. We'd get the Piccolo screen time we want but lose who could've been great fighters while on the flip side sacrifice Piccolo getting important screen time to get good Namakians.

Vegetto's level is over kill, putting him on Super Perfect Cell's level is really stretching things.

I'd rather them just introduce the Namekians as powerhouses that can keep up with Goku and Vegeta I suppose. Then again, a powered up a Piccolo could be interesting as well.

How powerful do you have Piccolo? He has to be at the very least several tiers stronger than a new-and-improved SSJ2 Gohan.

[sintzu]

He has to be at the very least several tiers stronger than a new-and-improved SSJ2 Gohan.

The last main fight he had was against 1st form Cell which ended with him being one shotted and nearly killed.

He didn't fight anyone in the Buu arc.

No one could do anything to Beerus so I'm not holding that over him.

In the RF movie he couldn't even fight Shisami (the red guy) and Gohan who was a very weak Ssj compared to his Cell days took him donw with one hit.

When he fought Frost in both the anime and manga he was just dodging Frost's attacks before getting poisoned so I'm assuming he couldn't deal with him in a hand to hand fight.

Based on the above, I don't see how he could be stronger than when he lost to Cell let alone being stronger than perfect Cell or even Ssj Vegetto.

[supercat]

He has to be at the very least several tiers stronger than a new-and-improved SSJ2 Gohan.

The last main fight he had was against 1st form Cell which ended with him being one shotted and nearly killed.

He didn't fight anyone in the Buu arc.

No one could do anything to Beerus so I'm not holding that over him.

In the RF movie he couldn't even fight Shisami (the red guy) and Gohan who was a very weak Ssj compared to his Cell days took him donw with one hit.

When he fought Frost in both the anime and manga he was just dodging Frost's attacks before getting poisoned so I'm assuming he couldn't deal with him in a hand to hand fight.

Based on the above, I don't see how he could be stronger than when he lost to Cell let alone being stronger than perfect Cell or even Ssj Vegetto.

You haven't seen his fight against SSJ2 Gohan have you?

[sintzu]

You haven't seen his fight against SSJ2 Gohan have you?

I forgot about that but it proves my point about them changing power levels without a second thought.

Both Namakians could say they're equal in power yet somehow Piccolo will be able to take one down even though Goku needed Kaioken Blue to take down the other.

[supercat]

You haven't seen his fight against SSJ2 Gohan have you?

I forgot about that but it proves my point about them changing power levels without a second thought.

Both Namakians could say they're equal in power yet somehow Piccolo will be able to take one down even though Goku needed Kaioken Blue to take down the other.

Haha I could totally see something like that playing out. And if it does, the chaos that would start in the strength discussion thread would be hilarious.

[Jigurashi]

Problem is if they're as strong as Goku then Piccolo is going to get dumpstered by them.

If they are that strong then either:

1. Piccolo show why he is the master strategist
2. Piccolo is hiding power
3. The Vegeta Cabba scenario again
4. There are 2 so maybe a tag team
5. They could be the real big players of the tournament and Saonel is a tribute to Toriyama's first big Villian in the series (King Piccolo).

If Toei can change things then they won't waste an opportunity to have 2 Namekians be good at fighting.

They haven't showed anything from them so I think (and hope) it's because they're saving them for later but on the other hand, it seems like the torunament is coming to an end so they and everyone else we haven't seen could end up out the ring by Jerin as a way to show how strong he is and how "great" Goku is for stopping him (which is something they've been doing since Champa's arc).

If we don't see them in episode 108 then Jiren is doing nothing to them.

Mentioning Saonel as a tribute is a pretty flimsy argument at the moment (though it isn't exactly impossible for something to come of it), chances of Piccolo hiding power is slim. He currently isn't shit to Current SSJ2 Goku, and if those Namekians are around a level of say SSG Goku, then Piccolo gets wrecked. They've been pretty hit or miss with tactics and strategy overall that Piccolo using tactics might not even work. Not to mention Piccolo's track record in taking down stronger opponents with strategy is pretty abysmal. I could see a tag team, if so, I don't want Gohan anywhere near there but he likely will be teaming with Piccolo if it is a tag-team. The Vegeta-Cabba scenario honestly sounds like the most appealing one.

Regardless, I don't have high expectations for Piccolo and honestly don't expect too much more for him. I'd love to be proven wrong though, but there isn't enough evidence there that enforces without a doubt that he'll be treated with respect. Even worse, the more he and Gohan stick together, the lamer he becomes as a character imo. As for Jiren, I don't see Jiren having anything to do with the Namekians at all.

[Shinda Forever]

I'm talking about ToP.

Vegeta needs to at least defeat someone of his level or have a standout fight.

A rematch against Hitto and a fight against Toppo are examples

Didn't Toshio say that Vegeta and Hit were going to have another fight? That's what people have been saying around here.

If so Vegeta will probably beat Hit this time around. I can't see him having a rematch only to lose again. That'd seem a bit redundant.

There aren't many big names outside of Universe 7 so he'll probably only get the one. Frieza will probably get Toppo and Goku will get Jiren.

The fight between Hitto and Vegeta can end in a draw.

[Lionel]

As with others, I'm erring on the side of caution by preserving low expectations for Piccolo. Nothing much seems to be implied as potential material for him besides the two U6 Namekians. No one besides Rubalt has taken any particular interest in him. I think most of his screen time is going to involve collaborating with and defending Gohan since that appears to be where the bulk of his characterisation is being apportioned to at the moment. I would hate to witness yet another sacrificial defence scene with Piccolo being served up to rescue Gohan from a certain death/death, but knowing how Super likes to make nods to the classics it wouldn't surprise me if they decided to drudge up the infamous Piccolo death scene from the Saiyan arc yet again. Piccolo isn't being given much room to distinguish himself as a character with his own desires and quirks in this arc and I find that to be disappointing.

If by some miracle Piccolo were to achieve a surprising assimilation boost from Saonel and Pilina, I still wouldn't be holding my breath for anything truly spectacular that's on par with the strongest fighters of the tournament.

[TheSaiyanGod]

I'm talking about ToP.

Vegeta needs to at least defeat someone of his level or have a standout fight.

A rematch against Hitto and a fight against Toppo are examples

Didn't Toshio say that Vegeta and Hit were going to have another fight? That's what people have been saying around here.

If so Vegeta will probably beat Hit this time around. I can't see him having a rematch only to lose again. That'd seem a bit redundant.

There aren't many big names outside of Universe 7 so he'll probably only get the one. Frieza will probably get Toppo and Goku will get Jiren.

The fight between Hitto and Vegeta can end in a draw.

I do not mind. If only it were a battle that would take him to his limit, where he needed to use all his power and give Hitto the change, showing the results of his training.

Even being eliminated, he would return everything he suffered in the Champa tournament.
He would have won the battle, but lost the war.

That would be at least acceptable to Vegeta in this tournament and I would not mind if he was the third eliminated if he had at least that fight

[namekiansaiyan]

As with others, I'm erring on the side of caution by preserving low expectations for Piccolo. Nothing much seems to be implied as potential material for him besides the two U6 Namekians. No one besides Rubalt has taken any particular interest in him. I think most of his screen time is going to involve collaborating with and defending Gohan since that appears to be where the bulk of his characterisation is being apportioned to at the moment. I would hate to witness yet another sacrificial defence scene with Piccolo being served up to rescue Gohan from a certain death/death, but knowing how Super likes to make nods to the classics it wouldn't surprise me if they decided to drudge up the infamous Piccolo death scene from the Saiyan arc yet again. Piccolo isn't being given much room to distinguish himself as a character with his own desires and quirks in this arc and I find that to be disappointing.

If by some miracle Piccolo were to achieve a surprising assimilation boost from Saonel and Pilina, I still wouldn't be holding my breath for anything truly spectacular that's on par with the strongest fighters of the tournament.

Piccolo's potential material with the Namekians is more than 17, 18, Gohan and Vegeta have so I fail to understand the negativity.

Everyone keeps saying Gohan is going to do something important but what is that exactly? People keep saying Toppo but people also say that about Vegeta and Frieza and all 3 can't have him.

What is 18 going to do that is so important and even 17?

The only fighter anyone is paying attention to is Goku and the rest of the fighters don't care about the rest of Universe 7.

Why is Piccolo learning more about his own race and getting stronger from it so unbelievable to many of you?

[perucho1990]

Idk why I have the feeling Roshi wont make it easy for Frost, and tbh it will be bullshit to the extreme if Roshi can somehow not get completely fodderized vs Frost.

[namekiansaiyan]

Idk why I have the feeling Roshi wont make it easy for Frost, and tbh it will be bullshit to the extreme if Roshi can somehow not get completely fodderized vs Frost.

Why not since most would consider both Roshi and Frost to be fodder becuase they are not SSB level.

[perucho1990]

Hit said that Frost improved so much that he forced him to take him seriously, so he should be around Dyspo level, remember that Dyspo only had the upperhand vs Hit because he had prep and knowledge of Hits tokitobashi.

Then in the PV he seems in trouble fighting MajiKayo.

Its like Toriyama loves Roshi as much as the Pilaf Gang, but this time he might agree in making Roshi stronger than the likes of Piccolo if he doesnt get fodderized by Frost.

[ArchedThunder]

Hit said that Frost improved so much that he forced him to take him seriously, so he should be around Dyspo level, remember that Dyspo only had the upperhand vs Hit because he had prep and knowledge of Hits tokitobashi.

Then in the PV he seems in trouble fighting MajiKayo.

Its like Toriyama loves Roshi as much as the Pilaf Gang, but this time he might agree in making Roshi stronger than the likes of Piccolo if he doesnt get fodderized by Frost.

Frost is shown with no damage in the NEP, so I don't think Roshi is going to be giving him a hard time. I'm guessing Frost beats him around a bit and Roshi decides the only way he can win is the Mafuba and then that doesn't work out.