What's up with Tenshinhan this arc?

[Lionel]

Is it odd of me to wish that someone unexpected like Tenshinhan would defeat Jiren not through power but through dexterous martial arts technique? Just because his external physiological musculature would be the equivalent of adamantium to someone of Tenshinhan's relatively limited power doesn't mean he couldn't find some alternative way of inflicting damage. External damage is impracticable due to Jiren's Ki shielding him from insufficient force to pierce through, but what about internal damage? Striking the most vulnerable spots of the meridian system should work, especially the areas that cannot be physically bolstered by Ki. We saw Hit use pressure point strikes in his battle with Vegeta.

[spoiler]

[/spoiler]

Some of those attacks should have incapacitated Vegeta right on the spot if we're being biologically consistent -- the temple region, external carotid artery and larynx were all apparently struck. All of those regions are noted to be very dangerous areas to strike because they have the potential to induce hemorrhaging, respiratory trauma, and arterial complications. Hit must have been heavily restricting his attacks because otherwise Vegeta would have been knocked out almost immediately, if not killed. A lot of other points on the body should also be vulnerable like the sternum, forearm, behind the collarbone, and ect. For someone like Tenshinhan, they would want to attack the areas with less muscle like behind the jawline where the temporomandibular joint is, ears, and eyes.

Personally I'm quite excited to see Goku VS Jiren. Goku himself is a very skilled fighter and I'll likely start liking Jiren when he fights Goku in the same vein that I started to like Hitto when he fought Goku. As for the internal damage thing, Hitto even stated that Vegeta was the first to take that many hits without being knocked out. Of course as we know, Goku then later on takes even far more punishment there than Vegeta.

The idea of a weaker fighter taking down someone as powerful as Jiren could be cool depending on how it's handled. The problem is since Jiren is so massively above most characters, they'd just be blitzed and one-shotted before they could do anything. For example, Hitto. He's a SSB level fighter, but nothing he's done as put him on Current SSBKKx10 level, and we know Goku has SSBKKx20 that makes Hitto even more fodder to Goku and by extension Jiren. Goku stalemated Hitto last time in SSB only, and he's going to nee something > SSBKKx20 to match Jiren. Hitto is the only character we know that regularly fights by targeting pressure points, but he can't really do shit to Jiren on account of Jiren being massively above him, and having full knowledge on his skillset. SSB Vegeta and Hitto were of a similar level.

I'm really desensitised from Goku at this point so whenever he fights I just shrug my shoulders and just watch from an impassive point of view. The studio is without a doubt going to be allocating the most resources to Goku's fight with Jiren so the choreographical stunts should be interesting. Transformations and Ki projectiles don't strike my fancy.

Yeah, you're right. Someone would have to be strategically ahead of Jiren several steps somehow to survive the first throw. One blow would have to be enough to kill the likes of Tenshinhan. I think the classic Taiyoken would have to be used for Tenshinhan to launch his one and probably only attack on Jiren because any attempts to use the Taiyoken afterwards would be met with Jiren negating it somehow. As for Vegeta, I'm honestly stumped by how he could stay upright when his ability to breathe and motor functions should have been shot to hell. The strikes are supposed to damage and disrupt internal biological functions. Vegeta would have to be some kind of literal anatomical mutant with a condition similar to dextrocardia situs inversus totalis for his body to still function normally.

For any one strike to successfully cripple someone as powerful as Jiren, you would have to go straight for the most vital areas like eyes and ears. Tenshinhan could use his Shiyoken to create additional limbs with which to strike at the occipital lobe, visual and auditory cortexes. If the cerebral trauma is severe enough then hopefully Jiren's opponent could win since the brain is responsible for neurological functions, including sending electrical signals throughout the body to tell it what to do.

[Jigurashi]

Is it odd of me to wish that someone unexpected like Tenshinhan would defeat Jiren not through power but through dexterous martial arts technique? Just because his external physiological musculature would be the equivalent of adamantium to someone of Tenshinhan's relatively limited power doesn't mean he couldn't find some alternative way of inflicting damage. External damage is impracticable due to Jiren's Ki shielding him from insufficient force to pierce through, but what about internal damage? Striking the most vulnerable spots of the meridian system should work, especially the areas that cannot be physically bolstered by Ki. We saw Hit use pressure point strikes in his battle with Vegeta.

[spoiler]

[/spoiler]

Some of those attacks should have incapacitated Vegeta right on the spot if we're being biologically consistent -- the temple region, external carotid artery and larynx were all apparently struck. All of those regions are noted to be very dangerous areas to strike because they have the potential to induce hemorrhaging, respiratory trauma, and arterial complications. Hit must have been heavily restricting his attacks because otherwise Vegeta would have been knocked out almost immediately, if not killed. A lot of other points on the body should also be vulnerable like the sternum, forearm, behind the collarbone, and ect. For someone like Tenshinhan, they would want to attack the areas with less muscle like behind the jawline where the temporomandibular joint is, ears, and eyes.

Personally I'm quite excited to see Goku VS Jiren. Goku himself is a very skilled fighter and I'll likely start liking Jiren when he fights Goku in the same vein that I started to like Hitto when he fought Goku. As for the internal damage thing, Hitto even stated that Vegeta was the first to take that many hits without being knocked out. Of course as we know, Goku then later on takes even far more punishment there than Vegeta.

The idea of a weaker fighter taking down someone as powerful as Jiren could be cool depending on how it's handled. The problem is since Jiren is so massively above most characters, they'd just be blitzed and one-shotted before they could do anything. For example, Hitto. He's a SSB level fighter, but nothing he's done as put him on Current SSBKKx10 level, and we know Goku has SSBKKx20 that makes Hitto even more fodder to Goku and by extension Jiren. Goku stalemated Hitto last time in SSB only, and he's going to nee something > SSBKKx20 to match Jiren. Hitto is the only character we know that regularly fights by targeting pressure points, but he can't really do shit to Jiren on account of Jiren being massively above him, and having full knowledge on his skillset. SSB Vegeta and Hitto were of a similar level.

I'm really desensitised from Goku at this point so whenever he fights I just shrug my shoulders and just watch from an impassive point of view. The studio is without a doubt going to be allocating the most resources to Goku's fight with Jiren so the choreographical stunts should be interesting. Transformations and Ki projectiles don't strike my fancy.

Yeah, you're right. Someone would have to be strategically ahead of Jiren several steps somehow to survive the first throw. One blow would have to be enough to kill the likes of Tenshinhan. I think the classic Taiyoken would have to be used for Tenshinhan to launch his one and probably only attack on Jiren because any attempts to use the Taiyoken afterwards would be met with Jiren negating it somehow. As for Vegeta, I'm honestly stumped by how he could stay upright when his ability to breathe and motor functions should have been shot to hell. The strikes are supposed to damage and disrupt internal biological functions. Vegeta would have to be some kind of literal anatomical mutant with a condition similar to dextrocardia situs inversus totalis for his body to still function normally.

For any one strike to successfully cripple someone as powerful as Jiren, you would have to go straight for the most vital areas like eyes and ears. Tenshinhan could use his Shiyoken to create additional limbs with which to strike at the occipital lobe, visual and auditory cortexes. If the cerebral trauma is severe enough then hopefully Jiren's opponent could win since the brain is responsible for neurological functions, including sending electrical signals throughout the body to tell it what to do.

Indeed. From what I've been reading, a lot of good staff are being brought on board for this special. I find Goku to have the best fights (for obvious reasons) so I'm always up for a big Goku fight. I've enjoyed almost all of them. Goku VS Jackie Chun, Goku VS Tenshinhan, Goku VS Daimao, Goku VS Piccolo Jr, Goku VS Vegeta, Goku VS Freeza, Goku VS Cell, Goku VS Pure Boo, Goku VS Beerus II, Goku VS Hitto, Goku VS M-Zamasu. The real amazing part is that of all the fights I've mentioned, he's lost almost all of them too lol.

Taiyoken definitely could potentially work, though that's assuming Ten gets to make the first move.

Well Vegeta is an alien.

An interesting topic. Of course, I'm a little hesitant to believe Ten would do a lot of this stuff considering how they've portrayed him to be a bit incompetent. He was never the smartest fighter, but I don't see 23rd Budokai Tenshinhan aiming a Kikoho at a moving Gohan and completely ignoring a stationary Piccolo right in front of him. A real shame what they've done with Ten. Always felt they could have build upon his whole assassin in training thing.

[omaro34]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=42HNvl0e26I

This video tells you all you need to know about how Tien was treated. Everybody else in universe 7 got power ups. Every single one of them. Krillin went from bullets hurting him to sparring with Blue Goku, 17 got much stronger off screen during his absence, Gohan comments on how strong Piccolo became, Gohan unlocks his mystic in no time, Freeza got even more powerful than during the RoF arc, and of course Roshi gets an insane boost. That's right. Roshi. The same guy who's been retired since halfway through the original Dragonball, and the same guy who claimed he was done after he lost to Tien in the Budokai.

The only guy who didn't get stronger was Tien. Where was his abilities as well? Is the solar flare and tri beam the only attack Toei remembers? He never used his Do Don ray, never grew his two extra arms during the tournament, and people forget he was a prodigy that learned the kamehameha very fast and used it on Roshi in Dragonball.

I mean damn, talk about neglect. The worst written character on the universe seven team in Super by far. His achievements in Super is getting to beat up Freeza soldiers, getting one shotted by Tagoma, being background decoration during the Champa arc, being forgotten about during the Trunks arc, losing to Roshi during his supposed recruitment episode, getting gut wrenched by Gohan, taking out one fodder with the help of Roshi, and sacrificing himself for a guy that Goku and Vegeta could have taken out in a heartbeat.

It's just sad.

[JazzMazz]

Is it odd of me to wish that someone unexpected like Tenshinhan would defeat Jiren not through power but through dexterous martial arts technique? Just because his external physiological musculature would be the equivalent of adamantium to someone of Tenshinhan's relatively limited power doesn't mean he couldn't find some alternative way of inflicting damage. External damage is impracticable due to Jiren's Ki shielding him from insufficient force to pierce through, but what about internal damage? Striking the most vulnerable spots of the meridian system should work, especially the areas that cannot be physically bolstered by Ki. We saw Hit use pressure point strikes in his battle with Vegeta.

[spoiler]

[/spoiler]

Some of those attacks should have incapacitated Vegeta right on the spot if we're being biologically consistent -- the temple region, external carotid artery and larynx were all apparently struck. All of those regions are noted to be very dangerous areas to strike because they have the potential to induce hemorrhaging, respiratory trauma, and arterial complications. Hit must have been heavily restricting his attacks because otherwise Vegeta would have been knocked out almost immediately, if not killed. A lot of other points on the body should also be vulnerable like the sternum, forearm, behind the collarbone, and ect. For someone like Tenshinhan, they would want to attack the areas with less muscle like behind the jawline where the temporomandibular joint is, ears, and eyes.

Uh, Saiyans can easily get up from pressure point attacks. Does anyone remember the Namu fight?

Also, I feel like you underestimate the characters a fair bit. For example in 104, you said that Hit couldn't survive punches at faster than light speeds, which isn't that impressive. If the laws of physics don't apply and it is possible to travel faster than light, than Dyspo would only really be hitting with as much force as the Tsar bomb. While that is definitely impressive in it's own right, it's not really much to speak of when you have characters who can casually survive explosions that wipe out large portions of planets back in the Namek arc.

[Jigurashi]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=42HNvl0e26I

This video tells you all you need to know about how Tien was treated. Everybody else in universe 7 got power ups. Every single one of them. Krillin went from bullets hurting him to sparring with Blue Goku, 17 got much stronger off screen during his absence, Gohan comments on how strong Piccolo became, Gohan unlocks his mystic in no time, Freeza got even more powerful than during the RoF arc, and of course Roshi gets an insane boost. That's right. Roshi. The same guy who's been retired since halfway through the original Dragonball, and the same guy who claimed he was done after he lost to Tien in the Budokai.

The only guy who didn't get stronger was Tien. Where was his abilities as well? Is the solar flare and tri beam the only attack Toei remembers? He never used his Do Don ray, never grew his two extra arms during the tournament, and people forget he was a prodigy that learned the kamehameha very fast and used it on Roshi in Dragonball.

I mean damn, talk about neglect. The worst written character on the universe seven team in Super by far. His achievements in Super is getting to beat up Freeza soldiers, getting one shotted by Tagoma, being background decoration during the Champa arc, being forgotten about during the Trunks arc, losing to Roshi during his supposed recruitment episode, getting gut wrenched by Gohan, taking out one fodder with the help of Roshi, and sacrificing himself for a guy that Goku and Vegeta could have taken out in a heartbeat.

It's just sad.

To be more accurate and really sell your point home, he didn't sacrifice himself. He simply forced a draw cause he fucked up, cause they made him uncharacteristically shit talk his opponent before securing the win. They really did do Tenshinhan dirty.

[Lionel]

Is it odd of me to wish that someone unexpected like Tenshinhan would defeat Jiren not through power but through dexterous martial arts technique? Just because his external physiological musculature would be the equivalent of adamantium to someone of Tenshinhan's relatively limited power doesn't mean he couldn't find some alternative way of inflicting damage. External damage is impracticable due to Jiren's Ki shielding him from insufficient force to pierce through, but what about internal damage? Striking the most vulnerable spots of the meridian system should work, especially the areas that cannot be physically bolstered by Ki. We saw Hit use pressure point strikes in his battle with Vegeta.

[spoiler]

[/spoiler]

Some of those attacks should have incapacitated Vegeta right on the spot if we're being biologically consistent -- the temple region, external carotid artery and larynx were all apparently struck. All of those regions are noted to be very dangerous areas to strike because they have the potential to induce hemorrhaging, respiratory trauma, and arterial complications. Hit must have been heavily restricting his attacks because otherwise Vegeta would have been knocked out almost immediately, if not killed. A lot of other points on the body should also be vulnerable like the sternum, forearm, behind the collarbone, and ect. For someone like Tenshinhan, they would want to attack the areas with less muscle like behind the jawline where the temporomandibular joint is, ears, and eyes.

Uh, Saiyans can easily get up from pressure point attacks. Does anyone remember the Namu fight?

Also, I feel like you underestimate the characters a fair bit. For example in 104, you said that Hit couldn't survive punches at faster than light speeds, which isn't that impressive. If the laws of physics don't apply and it is possible to travel faster than light, than Dyspo would only really be hitting with as much force as the Tsar bomb. While that is definitely impressive in it's own right, it's not really much to speak of when you have characters who can casually survive explosions that wipe out large portions of planets back in the Namek arc.

Nam's statement about the restrainment of his attack so as not to kill implies he didn't use full force, which appears to be the case as he was preparing for an even stronger Tenku Pekeji-Ken. Moreover, he did try to rationalise the last of unconsciousness as a result of him just narrowly missing the pressure point. I personally think some accuracy in that explanation might exist because we know Saiyans are biologically susceptible to similar things as humans -- examples including Pilaf's sleeping gas, the heart virus, and when Hit fatally struck his heart during their initial encounter on Earth. So I am incredulous about the creative licenses used to explain these feats being used as a broad umbrella explanation for an anatomical frailment that can't just be superseded with higher power levels, otherwise Goku wouldn't have needed to defibrilate his heart with a Ki attack. But then again, I also remember how the major issue cited with things like Goku swimming at the bottom of the ocean and being exposed to the vacuum of Space being oxygen and not bone crushing water pressure or lack thereof in a vacuum devoid of livable atmosphere.

Taking something like a meridial strike to your arteries and respiratory system can't just be overcome by powering up. I doubt Toei is fully aware of the internal biological ramifications of Dim Mak and just liken the attacks to something "soft, but precise that can be superseded if you're a Saiyan who's persistent and has enough power". Could most of the fighting in Dragon Ball even have some kind of structured classifiable name or origin put to it?

[Ziegander]

I don't get how anyone thinks Tien is a good fighter. Someone like Frieza would destroy him in hand to hand combat, even at equal powerlevels. Heck, give Tien a 2x boost over Frieza and he'd still lose! Frieza's movements are so graceful, not to mention completely dynamic and acrobatic. Tien would never be able to keep up with that. By the time he detects Frieza's movements he'd have a fist crammed into his abdomen, or find he's being crushed helplessly by the tyrant's tail. And by the time he realizes that, he'd already be on his way into a cavern where the tyrant appears right in front of him and hits him with an acrobatic attack of some sort. This is all assuming Tien isn't one-shotted. He seems fragile compared to someone like Frieza.

That's... not even remotely how anything in Dragon Ball works...

Look, I'm not going to say that at any point in time throughout the series Tien has had the power to take on Namek Final Form Frieza, but if you give Tien a power level of 130,000,000, then he absolutely could have stood toe to toe with the tyrant. Because that's how Dragon Ball works. Strength, speed, and fighting skill are all highly tied to power level and two characters of equal power level are said to possess comparable levels of all three. Even Oolong could have wrecked Frieza if you gave him the power level of Namek SSJ Goku. That's how it works. You don't get one-shot by someone with a power level equal to or less than yours.

[JazzMazz]

Is it odd of me to wish that someone unexpected like Tenshinhan would defeat Jiren not through power but through dexterous martial arts technique? Just because his external physiological musculature would be the equivalent of adamantium to someone of Tenshinhan's relatively limited power doesn't mean he couldn't find some alternative way of inflicting damage. External damage is impracticable due to Jiren's Ki shielding him from insufficient force to pierce through, but what about internal damage? Striking the most vulnerable spots of the meridian system should work, especially the areas that cannot be physically bolstered by Ki. We saw Hit use pressure point strikes in his battle with Vegeta.

[spoiler]

[/spoiler]

Some of those attacks should have incapacitated Vegeta right on the spot if we're being biologically consistent -- the temple region, external carotid artery and larynx were all apparently struck. All of those regions are noted to be very dangerous areas to strike because they have the potential to induce hemorrhaging, respiratory trauma, and arterial complications. Hit must have been heavily restricting his attacks because otherwise Vegeta would have been knocked out almost immediately, if not killed. A lot of other points on the body should also be vulnerable like the sternum, forearm, behind the collarbone, and ect. For someone like Tenshinhan, they would want to attack the areas with less muscle like behind the jawline where the temporomandibular joint is, ears, and eyes.

Uh, Saiyans can easily get up from pressure point attacks. Does anyone remember the Namu fight?

Also, I feel like you underestimate the characters a fair bit. For example in 104, you said that Hit couldn't survive punches at faster than light speeds, which isn't that impressive. If the laws of physics don't apply and it is possible to travel faster than light, than Dyspo would only really be hitting with as much force as the Tsar bomb. While that is definitely impressive in it's own right, it's not really much to speak of when you have characters who can casually survive explosions that wipe out large portions of planets back in the Namek arc.

Nam's statement about the restrainment of his attack so as not to kill implies he didn't use full force, which appears to be the case as he was preparing for an even stronger Tenku Pekeji-Ken. Moreover, he did try to rationalise the last of unconsciousness as a result of him just narrowly missing the pressure point. I personally think some accuracy in that explanation might exist because we know Saiyans are biologically susceptible to similar things as humans -- examples including Pilaf's sleeping gas, the heart virus, and when Hit fatally struck his heart during their initial encounter on Earth. So I am incredulous about the creative licenses used to explain these feats being used as a broad umbrella explanation for an anatomical frailment that can't just be superseded with higher power levels, otherwise Goku wouldn't have needed to defibrilate his heart with a Ki attack. But then again, I also remember how the major issue cited with things like Goku swimming at the bottom of the ocean and being exposed to the vacuum of Space being oxygen and not bone crushing water pressure or lack thereof in a vacuum devoid of livable atmosphere.

Taking something like a meridial strike to your arteries and respiratory system can't just be overcome by powering up. I doubt Toei is fully aware of the internal biological ramifications of Dim Mak and just liken the attacks to something "soft, but precise that can be superseded if you're a Saiyan who's persistent and has enough power". Could most of the fighting in Dragon Ball even have some kind of structured classifiable name or origin put to it?

I definitely agree with you that Saiyans are still susceptible to biological attacks, I'm merely saying that Saiyans appear to be resistant against pressure point attacks by weaker opponents to some extent.(Also, Nam was justifying why Goku didn't go down only to himself, it's not to be taken literally by the audience, also Nam's technique was not designed to kill, but to incapacitate).

[HeroR]

Nam's statement about the restrainment of his attack so as not to kill implies he didn't use full force, which appears to be the case as he was preparing for an even stronger Tenku Pekeji-Ken. Moreover, he did try to rationalise the last of unconsciousness as a result of him just narrowly missing the pressure point. I personally think some accuracy in that explanation might exist because we know Saiyans are biologically susceptible to similar things as humans -- examples including Pilaf's sleeping gas, the heart virus, and when Hit fatally struck his heart during their initial encounter on Earth. So I am incredulous about the creative licenses used to explain these feats being used as a broad umbrella explanation for an anatomical frailment that can't just be superseded with higher power levels, otherwise Goku wouldn't have needed to defibrilate his heart with a Ki attack. But then again, I also remember how the major issue cited with things like Goku swimming at the bottom of the ocean and being exposed to the vacuum of Space being oxygen and not bone crushing water pressure or lack thereof in a vacuum devoid of livable atmosphere.

Taking something like a meridial strike to your arteries and respiratory system can't just be overcome by powering up. I doubt Toei is fully aware of the internal biological ramifications of Dim Mak and just liken the attacks to something "soft, but precise that can be superseded if you're a Saiyan who's persistent and has enough power". Could most of the fighting in Dragon Ball even have some kind of structured classifiable name or origin put to it?

Tien also hit Goku dozens of times in his vital points and didn't put him down when they fought at the 22nd tournament.

[Basako]

Super gave us nothing special for the guy, mostly the contrary, from the recruitments. In the tournament, hey, he can use the splitting in four and the Kikoho! We already knew and nothing wrong about them, it's cool to see old techniques again, but what about an actual fight? One, please Toei. He defeated Hermila, but even that was kind of stained because he took him out too.

And Toshio saying he would have a great moment. Well, Roshi had some great moments and Krilin had good moments too. Tenshinhan had a moment, not bad, but far from great. I would call it good if he stood in the arena in the end, but no.

I think eliminations may have come from Toriyama, so I expect similar stories in the manga. But perhaps Toyotaro brings us some panels where he actually fights somebody.

[coola]

I'm honestly just sad, he used to be smart fighter, able to learn technique just by watching someone perform it, now he just become Kikoho spamer (What happened to "It's so dangerous it can kill you, even if it wont, it will shorten your life"? Kikoho is supposed to be forbidden technique) and got surpassed by Master Roshi, guy, who was supposed to retire from fighting, after 22nd TB.

[HeroR]

I'm honestly just sad, he used to be smart fighter, able to learn technique just by watching someone perform it, now he just become Kikoho spamer (What happened to "It's so dangerous it can kill you, even if it wont, it will shorten your life"? Kikoho is supposed to be forbidden technique) and got surpassed by Master Roshi, guy, who was supposed to retire from fighting, after 22nd TB.

Tien literally hasn't done that since the King Piccolo Saga and he became a Tri-Beam spammer after he did it against Cell. Hell, his last hand-to-hand combat against a powerful foe was Nappa, who took his arm off.

[Timetraveller]

I'm honestly just sad, he used to be smart fighter, able to learn technique just by watching someone perform it, now he just become Kikoho spamer (What happened to "It's so dangerous it can kill you, even if it wont, it will shorten your life"? Kikoho is supposed to be forbidden technique) and got surpassed by Master Roshi, guy, who was supposed to retire from fighting, after 22nd TB.

Tien literally hasn't done that since the King Piccolo Saga and he became a Tri-Beam spammer after he did it against Cell. Hell, his last hand-to-hand combat against a powerful foe was Nappa, who took his arm off.

If Roshi can get into a hand to hand/martial arts skirmish with someone then there's absolutely no excuse for why they couldn't do the same for Tien. Heck I'd be okay if they made Tien the mafuba character who broke the rules by bringing in a jar. There's nothing that Roshi can do that Tien can't so that would make Roshi redundant.

[HeroR]

I'm honestly just sad, he used to be smart fighter, able to learn technique just by watching someone perform it, now he just become Kikoho spamer (What happened to "It's so dangerous it can kill you, even if it wont, it will shorten your life"? Kikoho is supposed to be forbidden technique) and got surpassed by Master Roshi, guy, who was supposed to retire from fighting, after 22nd TB.

Tien literally hasn't done that since the King Piccolo Saga and he became a Tri-Beam spammer after he did it against Cell. Hell, his last hand-to-hand combat against a powerful foe was Nappa, who took his arm off.

If Roshi can get into a hand to hand/martial arts skirmish with someone then there's absolutely no excuse for why they couldn't do the same for Tien. Heck I'd be okay if they made Tien the mafuba character who broke the rules by bringing in a jar. There's nothing that Roshi can do that Tien can't so that would make Roshi redundant.

Except do everything better than Tien thanks to his experience.

And never got to used the Evil Containment Wave in the manga since the dumbass broke the jar and didn't realize it.

[Basako]

Tien literally hasn't done that since the King Piccolo Saga and he became a Tri-Beam spammer after he did it against Cell. Hell, his last hand-to-hand combat against a powerful foe was Nappa, who took his arm off.

If Roshi can get into a hand to hand/martial arts skirmish with someone then there's absolutely no excuse for why they couldn't do the same for Tien. Heck I'd be okay if they made Tien the mafuba character who broke the rules by bringing in a jar. There's nothing that Roshi can do that Tien can't so that would make Roshi redundant.

Except do everything better than Tien thanks to his experience.

And never got to used the Evil Containment Wave in the manga since the dumbass broke the jar and didn't realize it.

Well, but the point is he can do the Mafuba, even if he didn't use it that time. Roshi with all his experience failed and died with Piccolo Daimao. Which brings to your other questionable statement that just because experience Roshi can do everything better. So are Roshi's Kamehameha's the best ones in DB? No way. There are also plenty techniques Tenshinhan can use and Roshi can't, which maybe wouldn't apply the other way around as Tenshinhan apparently has this mimic hability.

[HeroR]

If Roshi can get into a hand to hand/martial arts skirmish with someone then there's absolutely no excuse for why they couldn't do the same for Tien. Heck I'd be okay if they made Tien the mafuba character who broke the rules by bringing in a jar. There's nothing that Roshi can do that Tien can't so that would make Roshi redundant.

Except do everything better than Tien thanks to his experience.

And never got to used the Evil Containment Wave in the manga since the dumbass broke the jar and didn't realize it.

Well, but the point is he can do the Mafuba, even if he didn't use it that time. Roshi with all his experience failed and died with Piccolo Daimao. Which brings to your other questionable statement that just because experience Roshi can do everything better. So are Roshi's Kamehameha's the best ones in DB? No way. There are also plenty techniques Tenshinhan can use and Roshi can't, which maybe wouldn't apply the other way around as Tenshinhan apparently has this mimic hability.

He only failed because he miss. Unlike Tien who didn't even use it in battle. We don't even know if Tien can make the seal for the Evil Containment Wave.

Experience allowed him to win against opponents who can give his team trouble because they're too straightforward.

And Tien, again, only copied up to the King Piccolo Saga. Like did Tien copy the Lightning Surprise Attack or so Hypnosis like Roshi?

Tien, quite frankly, has always been overrated after his first showing.

[Basako]

He only failed because he miss. Unlike Tien who didn't even use it in battle. We don't even know if Tien can make the seal for the Evil Containment Wave.

Experience allowed him to win against opponents who can give his team trouble because they're too straightforward.

And Tien, again, only copied up to the King Piccolo Saga. Like did Tien copy the Lightning Surprise Attack or so Hypnosis like Roshi?

Tien, quite frankly, has always been overrated after his first showing.

Well, the missing was the failing for Roshi. Ten just didn't use it because his container was broken, he was going to, meaning he knows the Mafuba.

And why does it matter when was the last time we saw him using the mimic hability? You mean he can't now? Why? No man, if anything, a martial artist refines his habilities, does not lose them. I'm not going to assume he can't just because no reason at all.

I don't think Tenshinhan was overrated. No one put him above than what he was, except maybe Julian. He was shown as inferior to Goku in the 23th semifinals, meaning he was the third in the ranking then. He stood there while the saiyan arc. Krilin surpassed him in the Namek arc. We can assume he had a boost for training with Kaio and that he probably mantained it for training afterwards. Comparing with saiyans that's bullshit, but who said it was more.

[DiegoBrando]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42HNvl0e26I

Not sure if this was posted already, but it's a pretty good video.

[Basako]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42HNvl0e26I

Not sure if this was posted already, but it's a pretty good video.

I saw it today a few hours before, very recommendable video. He is totally right man...

[MaskedRider]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42HNvl0e26I

Not sure if this was posted already, but it's a pretty good video.

Yes the video has been posted already, I seen it at least three times in this thread. Sorry if I sound rude but I see it going up like its the holy grail of what is wrong with Tenshinhan and while he isn't WRONG my issue is that he uses examples strictly from Super instead of Z as well. Heck, I don't know why he isn't complaining about him in Z too, having to re-watch clips to refresh my memory, it seems all he knows how to do is the Tri Beam while being the guy to show how much stronger the bad guy is. I'm not saying Super should be scotch free now but I probably seen him do more in new material since Battle of Gods movie than what I remember in Z after the Saiyan saga. Actually scratch that, I would say from all that I seen and read on he in Z and Super are just about the same. I would argue Yamcha is more deserving of the "Now what the hell is going on with him?" discussion. But at least Z and Super did more with him than GT ever did.


GT:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ufoM8mNKGA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7v-hybUNUzM

At least in Z and Super he is SOMETHING than NOTHING. Although of course he could have been more, I get that he got more screen time in Z but I wish he could have had more like the new material...I mean look at how cool this is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65Zn1MPMzA4 this screams experienced martial artist