"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[Cursemark505]

Maybe I was too harsh in my wording, but anyone who doesn't think an early Vegeta elimination isn't going to elicit a strong reaction is just being naive.

There's a reason why he's being photoshopped into fake pics, no other character is. Not Gohan, Not Piccolo, not even Goku.

There's a reason why people have been trolling about the ending images. I just don't want to the same ole discussions.

If you think Vegeta is getting an early KO because of a few ridiculous theories and a photoshopped photo, you're part of the problem.

People can't accept the fact that Krillin and Tien were knocked out because they were two of the three transparently weakest fighters on the team. Why Roshi is still on the stage is way beyond me.

Roshi is playing a huge role in Frost's plot next episode. It's very clear why he's still in. He still has important roles to play. Kuririn and Tenshinhan served their purpose. Kuririn at the very least got some cool moments. Tenshinhan has contributed the least to the plot out of everyone on the team the entire series so I don't see why that would change now. He wouldn't be of much use even if he'd stayed in. He doesn't have the strength or any special techniques to warrant it.

[perucho1990]

Roshi is playing a huge role in Frost's plot next episode. It's very clear why he's still in. He still has important roles to play. Kuririn and Tenshinhan served their purpose. Kuririn at the very least got some cool moments. Tenshinhan has contributed the least to the plot out of everyone on the team the entire series so I don't see why that would change now. He wouldn't be of much use even if he'd stayed in. He doesn't have the strength or any special techniques to warrant it.

Sorry but no, he is now being pushed down the fans throats, his role in the Frost episode couldve been given to Piccolo, imagine Frost targeting Piccolo and believing that he will get him easily like in the U6 tournament only to be shocked at Piccolos improvement.

[Boo Machine]

I'm unsure how being in a main role in 2 episode qualifies as "Being shoved down our throats". You not wanting Roshi there doesn't equate to having him shoved down your throat when he is there. Before people were saying that about Goku. Which I could see the argument for since he plays a part in every episode. But Roshi? I don't see it.

[HeroR]

Roshi is playing a huge role in Frost's plot next episode. It's very clear why he's still in. He still has important roles to play. Kuririn and Tenshinhan served their purpose. Kuririn at the very least got some cool moments. Tenshinhan has contributed the least to the plot out of everyone on the team the entire series so I don't see why that would change now. He wouldn't be of much use even if he'd stayed in. He doesn't have the strength or any special techniques to warrant it.

Sorry but no, he is now being pushed down the fans throats, his role in the Frost episode couldve been given to Piccolo, imagine Frost targeting Piccolo and believing that he will get him easily like in the U6 tournament only to be shocked at Piccolos improvement.

Frost is still stronger and Frost would know knot to underestimate Piccolo after he outsmarted him in the last tournament.

You can't also say someone is being "pushed down the fans throats" when you haven't even seen the episode.

[TheOne]

I'm unsure how being in a main role in 2 episode qualifies as "Being shoved down our throats". You not wanting Roshi there doesn't equate to having him shoved down your throat when he is there. Before people were saying that about Goku. Which I could see the argument for since he plays a part in every episode. But Roshi? I don't see it.

It's because of the context of which Roshi being involved is what gives the impression of him being shoved down our throats. Roshi is back in action after decades of inactivity. All they did was sprinkle a little bit of "I've been training in secret" and everyone ate it up. Knowing good and well that Roshi couldn't compete with King Piccolo in Dragon Ball and all of sudden fighting on the very same platform as the students he said were surpassing him in Dragon Ball. He was useless in Z, where all the enemies were getting stronger and stronger.

Back in Z, I have no doubt in my mind that they retired Roshi and had no intentions of him ever really fighting again. Now decades later, after everyone has rewatched/read Dragon Ball/Z dozens of times over, Roshi is all of a sudden relevant again. Outlasting his students in a multi universal tournament despite all their years of training. Going to Namek, training with Kami/King Kai, preparing for Androids etc.

If you can't empathize or at least attempt to see why people would be frustrated about Roshis involvement, then that's not cool or fair. We are forced to see your side of the debate and aren't allowed to disagree or else we're the bad guy.

[Hellspawn28]

I wonder if Beerus will erase Freeza for stabbing Universe 7 in the back after the tournament is over?

[Boo Machine]

It's because of the context of which Roshi being involved is what gives the impression of him being shoved down our throats. Roshi is back in action after decades of inactivity. All they did was sprinkle a little bit of "I've been training in secret" and everyone ate it up. Knowing good and well that Roshi couldn't compete with King Piccolo in Dragon Ball and all of sudden fighting on the very same platform as the students he said were surpassing him in Dragon Ball. He was useless in Z, where all the enemies were getting stronger and stronger.

Back in Z, I have no doubt in my mind that they retired Roshi and had no intentions of him ever really fighting again. Now decades later, after everyone has rewatched/read Dragon Ball/Z dozens of times over, Roshi is all of a sudden relevant again. Outlasting his students in a multi universal tournament despite all their years of training. Going to Namek, training with Kami/King Kai, preparing for Androids etc.

If you can't empathize or at least attempt to see why people would be frustrated about Roshis involvement, then that's not cool or fair. We are forced to see your side of the debate and aren't allowed to disagree or else we're the bad guy.

Never have I implied anyone was the bad guy for any reason. The most I've done is try to understand other peoples side by asking questions when I have a hard time grasping their logic, but the claim of "Throat shoving" is becoming so common place now and mostly just to express anger, much like how the term "asspull" got so overused months back to express dislike.

Roshi isn't being shoved down anyones throats, no matter how much one may dislike him or how hey might feel about his involvement. Being in 2 episodes is not being shoved down anyones throat. That's the point I'm getting across not whether or not anyone feels like he should be there. If Krillin or Tien were in Roshi's place no one would be claiming that they are being shoved down throats. If you don't feel like he should be there, then you can just say so and I'm sure you'd see more empathizing. I can see the argument of having someone else be in his place.

[Totamo]

I'm unsure how being in a main role in 2 episode qualifies as "Being shoved down our throats". You not wanting Roshi there doesn't equate to having him shoved down your throat when he is there. Before people were saying that about Goku. Which I could see the argument for since he plays a part in every episode. But Roshi? I don't see it.

It's because of the context of which Roshi being involved is what gives the impression of him being shoved down our throats. Roshi is back in action after decades of inactivity. All they did was sprinkle a little bit of "I've been training in secret" and everyone ate it up. Knowing good and well that Roshi couldn't compete with King Piccolo in Dragon Ball and all of sudden fighting on the very same platform as the students he said were surpassing him in Dragon Ball. He was useless in Z, where all the enemies were getting stronger and stronger.

Back in Z, I have no doubt in my mind that they retired Roshi and had no intentions of him ever really fighting again. Now decades later, after everyone has rewatched/read Dragon Ball/Z dozens of times over, Roshi is all of a sudden relevant again. Outlasting his students in a multi universal tournament despite all their years of training. Going to Namek, training with Kami/King Kai, preparing for Androids etc.

If you can't empathize or at least attempt to see why people would be frustrated about Roshis involvement, then that's not cool or fair. We are forced to see your side of the debate and aren't allowed to disagree or else we're the bad guy.

And Tien, Yamcha and Krillin were? Didn't 2 of them die in the saiyan saga without accomplishing anything? Didn't krillin just hide most of the time on namek and then gave up when he did have to fight? Wasn't Tien's biggest moment in the cell saga happened because of a bad power-scaling moment?
and it happened in Buu too.

Also Roshi did better against King Piccolo than Tien did against Drum because Roshi had a plan that almost worked.


This is why your argument fails. None of the human characters were useful in Z, the only one was Bulma. The only difference between Roshi and the other 3, is that he didn't have focus on his uselessness. But even if Roshi trained just like the rest of them and fought in those battles, he would have ended up just like they did.

Dead or fodderized.


Don't you get it? If you claim a character should be retired because the story said so then none of the humans and gohan would even be here.

[TheOne]

I'm unsure how being in a main role in 2 episode qualifies as "Being shoved down our throats". You not wanting Roshi there doesn't equate to having him shoved down your throat when he is there. Before people were saying that about Goku. Which I could see the argument for since he plays a part in every episode. But Roshi? I don't see it.

It's because of the context of which Roshi being involved is what gives the impression of him being shoved down our throats. Roshi is back in action after decades of inactivity. All they did was sprinkle a little bit of "I've been training in secret" and everyone ate it up. Knowing good and well that Roshi couldn't compete with King Piccolo in Dragon Ball and all of sudden fighting on the very same platform as the students he said were surpassing him in Dragon Ball. He was useless in Z, where all the enemies were getting stronger and stronger.

Back in Z, I have no doubt in my mind that they retired Roshi and had no intentions of him ever really fighting again. Now decades later, after everyone has rewatched/read Dragon Ball/Z dozens of times over, Roshi is all of a sudden relevant again. Outlasting his students in a multi universal tournament despite all their years of training. Going to Namek, training with Kami/King Kai, preparing for Androids etc.

If you can't empathize or at least attempt to see why people would be frustrated about Roshis involvement, then that's not cool or fair. We are forced to see your side of the debate and aren't allowed to disagree or else we're the bad guy.

And Tien, Yamcha and Krillin were? Didn't 2 of them die in the saiyan saga without accomplishing anything? Didn't krillin just hide most of the time on namek and then gave up when he did have to fight? Wasn't Tien's biggest moment in the cell saga happened because of a bad power-scaling moment?
and it happened in Buu too.

Also Roshi did better against King Piccolo than Tien did against Drum because Roshi had a plan that almost worked.


This is why your argument fails. None of the human characters were useful in Z, the only one was Bulma. The only difference between Roshi and the other 3, is that he didn't have focus on his uselessness. But even if Roshi trained just like the rest of them and fought in those battles, he would have ended up just like they did.

Dead or fodderized.


Don't you get it? If you claim a character should be retired because the story said so then none of the humans and gohan would even be here.

I must have given you the impression that I cared about the humans in Dragon Ball. I'm essentially picking the shiniest of the turds.

I don't value any of them at all to be completely honest. I think it's Bullcrap how Tien stopped Imperfect cell, Krillin "tricking" Gohan in a fight, Krillin getting stronger by lifting weights etc. They were all irrelevant and shown to be unable to compete with alien races. That was essentially the unspoken established rule.

Now that my stance is clear, of the handful of humans in this series that "deserved" to shine it was definitely Tien. Not Roshi. Of all the humans, we saw Tien keep up with his training over the years and gets crapped on while we pretend Roshi is able to "overpower" a monster like Ganos, who showed he could trade blows briefly with Goku. I am essentially stating that Roshi has no place in this tournament. And if I could trade Trunks, Goten and Buu for the three humans, I absolutely would. I'm more interested in seeing the offsprings of Goku and Vegeta synchronize fight than watch some has been relive his glory days.

[namekiansaiyan]

Kind of a little bit contradictory there, mate

No, it's not. It's putting the quality story ahead of everything else. The story has hyped up Gohan, so if they do nothing with him, it would have all been useless. I like to imagine nobody is petty enough to hate a character so much to the point of wanting the story to worsen in exchange for having his character perform badly, but some users here like to prove me wrong (not you).

Noah is right. You're making no sense.

1) If Gohan is your least favorite character, why would you be disappointed? At best you should be neutral towards his participation in the tournament.

2) What does the quality of the story have to do with you assuming that he'll be involved with the climax of the arc? The main event of the tournament has been hyped to be Goku vs Jiren. Literally nothing about Gohan has been hyped up in regards to the climax. The only things that were hyped up about him was that he would regain his strength and he would be a great asset. It hasn't been useless. He's gotten rid of troublesome opponents and will continue to do so.

The characters who got attention were fighters who needed to prove themselves or had to be reintroduced like 17 and Frieza.

[Kanassa]

I'm starting to think no one in this fan base knows what the phrase 'Shoved down our throats' is supposed to mean.

[hardcorefakes]

I'm unsure how being in a main role in 2 episode qualifies as "Being shoved down our throats". You not wanting Roshi there doesn't equate to having him shoved down your throat when he is there. Before people were saying that about Goku. Which I could see the argument for since he plays a part in every episode. But Roshi? I don't see it.

If two episodes prominently featuring a character who's essentially been retired since Dragon Ball isn't being "shoved down our throats", then I don't know what is.

What makes it more egregious is that it's for the sake of fanservice, not any meaningful or deep storytelling.

[Boo Machine]

If two episodes prominently featuring a character who's essentially been retired since Dragon Ball isn't being "shoved down our throats", then I don't know what is.

What makes it more egregious is that it's for the sake of fanservice, not any meaningful or deep storytelling.

Then you don't know what is. Because regardless of how long he has been out, suddenly coming back and only having 2 episodes ,One of which isn't even dedicated to him alone like the previous, is anything but that. (I don't even want to say the phrase anymore.)
An example of "it" would be if Roshi was in every single episode, in every fight, even if he didn't have to be there taking up all the screen time. Ya know, That thing some folk hate Goku for doing. There is even an entire thread dedicated to it.

I have to disagree. Episode 105 was a great story. Had that emotion. Had some cool moments. Got dem felz. Whether it's fan service or not doesn't even matter. Fanservice is fine if done well. So far it has. At least as far as Roshi is concerned. If that's fanservice, then please super, give me more fan service like that.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

I'm starting to think no one in this fan base knows what the phrase 'Shoved down our throats' is supposed to mean.

Lol, it does it feel like that doesn't it? It just seems people are using the "hot word of day", Roshi being central to two episodes is all of sudden 'shoved down our throats'... really? Much less the fact the episode hasn't even aired yet.

[HeroR]

I'm starting to think no one in this fan base knows what the phrase 'Shoved down our throats' is supposed to mean.

It can go join filler, asspull, and plot hole in the words that lost all meaning category.

[Kanassa]

I'm starting to think no one in this fan base knows what the phrase 'Shoved down our throats' is supposed to mean.

It can go join filler, asspull, and plot hole in the words that lost all meaning category.

And sue.

[Liquir]

108 Scan ( Ken Xyro translation )
Goddess Helles praises Goku for the second time in a row. A new Romance is born?
[spoiler][/spoiler]

[BlueBasilisk]

108 Scan ( Ken Xyro translation )
Goddess Helles praises Goku for the second time in a row. A new Romance is born?
[spoiler][/spoiler]

Ribrianne x Helles OTP!

[Whatever]

108 Scan ( Ken Xyro translation )
Goddess Helles praises Goku for the second time in a row. A new Romance is born?
[spoiler][/spoiler]

Ribrianne x Helles OTP!

Well she had to settle for someone else now that Gohan x Jemeze is a thing.

[Doctor.]

So you may think the same about Krillin, then?

Obviously.

Noah is right. You're making no sense.

1) If Gohan is your least favorite character, why would you be disappointed? At best you should be neutral towards his participation in the tournament.

Because Gohan has a character arc directly tied to the main plot? Because if he does nothing, then all of his development and build-up would have been for nothing? Because then that means the good chunk of the arc's recruitment and tournament episodes spent on building up Gohan's character flaws and fixing them would have all been useless? Again, I'm sorry I don't hate a character enough to want the story to fail because of it.

I also despise Jiren, but you're not gonna tell me it'd be perfectly logical of me to want the character to be thrown out-of-bounds in the next episode when we've been hyped a Goku vs Jiren for ages, right? It'd be moronic of me to think that, because despite the fact that I may dislike the character, the plot is centered around him.

2) What does the quality of the story have to do with you assuming that he'll be involved with the climax of the arc? The main event of the tournament has been hyped to be Goku vs Jiren. Literally nothing about Gohan has been hyped up in regards to the climax. The only things that were hyped up about him was that he would regain his strength and he would be a great asset. It hasn't been useless. He's gotten rid of troublesome opponents and will continue to do so.

Being involved in the climax doesn't mean he has to defeat or, hell, even fight Jiren. All it means is that he'll be involved in the climax of the arc. That's it. Vegeta was involved in the climax of the Cell arc and he didn't defeat Cell; his character arc was concluded the moment he set his pride aside and helped Gohan take down Cell and the arc would feel incomplete without that moment of development for Vegeta. Likewise, Gohan's character arc will be concluded the moment he proves himself to his father and justifies his position as team leader of universe 7 to Beerus and the audience. Ignoring all the time the recruitment arc spent on Gohan's character (his match against Lavenda, being constantly praised by Goku, helping out in picking the members, having his flaws highlighted in the match against Kuririn and having two episodes dedicated to his growth as a fighter and being picked as the team 7 leader), as well as his important placement in the ED, would be stupid. You may say that nothing has been hyping up Gohan in regards to the climax, but the mere fact that he's the character that has gotten the most screentime outside of Goku should disprove that notion entirely.