If or when goku reaches god of destruction level..

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.
Euoplocephalus
Newbie
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:06 am

If or when goku reaches god of destruction level..

Post by Euoplocephalus » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:38 am

Would you want him to stay at that level or go beyond and reach angel level?

User avatar
Polyphase Avatron
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6643
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:48 am

Re: If or when goku reaches god of destruction level..

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:56 am

He needs to realize that there will always be someone better than him.
Cool stuff that I upload here because Youtube will copyright claim it: https://vimeo.com/user60967147

User avatar
Chuquita
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 15289
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2004 2:16 am
Location: Somewhere

Re: If or when goku reaches god of destruction level..

Post by Chuquita » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:03 pm

They'll either expand the cosmos yet again, or the show will end before he reaches that point. Gokû is unhappy when there's no one at his level or higher for him to test himself against.

As it is, I don't think Dragon Ball could end conclusively, because Gokû's whole shtick is improvement and progression. You need a "there'll be more to come, off screen" ending, at least for Gokû.

Do I want him to reach Beerus' level? Only if we're at the tail end of Super.
On hiatus.

User avatar
Simere
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1466
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 6:28 pm

Re: If or when goku reaches god of destruction level..

Post by Simere » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:24 pm

Go beyond, of course. I really don't understand the fixation some have with keeping certain levels beyond reach as if they're sacrosanct. I want the angels to merely be the entry level to a whole new world of competition.

User avatar
TheOne
OMG CRAZY REGEN
Posts: 943
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2017 6:01 pm

Re: If or when goku reaches god of destruction level..

Post by TheOne » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:46 pm

Yes and No for me.

Yes because I like seeing him AND Vegeta reach new heights.

No because Gokus whole scenario is always wanting to challenge himself and get stronger. If there's nowhere left to go, the series is essentially done and it's time to move onto the next generation. I'd like for the story of Goku to go on for awhile.
How i predict the tournament will end:

TBMx
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 433
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2016 1:54 pm

Re: If or when goku reaches god of destruction level..

Post by TBMx » Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:18 pm

If Goku is at that level and no one else cant touch him except the angels and Zeno, he just keeps going until he does almost rival the angels by himself but it takes him so long to attain in story time that old age means he never quite gets there, and Goku has to deal with the fact that his quest for ever increasing strength is over. From here it's downhill until he's the old man living in the turtle hermit's kame house and two new students come to him like he and Krillin once did. Then as death approaches, Goku decides to go out in a last fight with Vegeta in outer space so its consistent with Dragonball Online.

User avatar
BlueBasilisk
I Live Here
Posts: 3062
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 11:58 am

Re: If or when goku reaches god of destruction level..

Post by BlueBasilisk » Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:27 pm

Keep going. No matter how high Goku goes there will always be someone higher than him on the totem pole as long as the story demands it. Supreme Kai was the top god once and look at him now. Eventually there will probably be someone beyond even Zeno that Goku will be chasing, and then someone beyond them.

User avatar
Basako
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1008
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2016 5:32 pm

Re: If or when goku reaches god of destruction level..

Post by Basako » Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:36 pm

It's no matter of if, he will get there. Probably soon enough, with the next transformation. From then on, keep growing, angel level, why not. Why did Master Roshi impersonate Jackie Chun in the 21st tournament? Because he wanted to teach his pupils a lesson, specially Goku, that there would always be stronger people somewhere so they should keep on with the training. Which came to be very true in DB and it's like the barebone of the entire series.
Heno heno kappa!

User avatar
GodVegetto91
Banned
Posts: 2906
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2015 12:49 pm

Re: If or when goku reaches god of destruction level..

Post by GodVegetto91 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:52 pm

By the end of this series Goku will at least have surpassed all 12 regular Angels (not talking about the Grand Priest). To me, i consider this a fair assumption. But ofcourse i don't have a crystal ball, anything goes. And like someone already said, they can just keep expanding the cosmos even further by adding another (or a couple) of Multiverses just like ours to form an Omni-Verse.

User avatar
Polyphase Avatron
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6643
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:48 am

Re: If or when goku reaches god of destruction level..

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:05 pm

It would be pointless to make him beyond Zeno though, since Zeno doesn't even fight - he could never enjoy a fight with him. Either he gets erased or he's too powerful to get erased.
Cool stuff that I upload here because Youtube will copyright claim it: https://vimeo.com/user60967147

User avatar
apex_pretador
I Live Here
Posts: 2081
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:17 pm

Re: If or when goku reaches god of destruction level..

Post by apex_pretador » Thu Sep 14, 2017 4:03 pm

He already did in manga atleast.
My dragon ball respect threads
Respect Piccolo
Respect Tao Pai Pai
Respect Freeza

User avatar
Lionel
I Live Here
Posts: 2398
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:54 am

Re: If or when goku reaches god of destruction level..

Post by Lionel » Fri Sep 15, 2017 6:23 am

Surpassing this and that character from Goku sounds a bit overrated these days. It's become such a palpable routine that you find yourself wondering how long it will take instead of becoming excited about the event itself. The team has been doing this for decades now, it's hackneyed and so are the methods they use to achieve it. Where would Goku be if he weren't a Saiyan? Those privileged little genes of his have proven invaluable in putting him over the top against everyone he comes across. If he were put in the shoes of the earthlings like Krillin or Chaozu, what would he do? No transformations or zenkais are available to magically elevate you when you're pushed into a corner; at best, you could maybe acquire the Kaioken and a temporary power raising wellspring like the one the Grand Elder offered during the Freeza arc. Once it's dried up, you're back to square one. What do you do then?

I would rather see someone else who isn't a Saiyan take the reigns and surpass the Hakaishin. Surely they could come up with something to allow Krillin or Yamcha or Tenshinhan to surpass the Hakaishin. Goodness knows they deserve it after being cold-shouldered for so long. Will it happen? Of course not. Toei and Toriyama have a convenient modus operandi set in place to map out how Goku is able to become astronomically stronger than he already is.

To answer your question, he'll probably come up to angel level some time soon after this arc. I doubt the gap between Beerus and Whis is all that wide. From there he can start to challenge the other angels with maybe one of the final arcs seeing him challenge Daishinkan. I could easily be wrong here.

User avatar
Simere
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1466
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2016 6:28 pm

Re: If or when goku reaches god of destruction level..

Post by Simere » Fri Sep 15, 2017 6:37 am

Lionel wrote:I would rather see someone else who isn't a Saiyan take the reigns and surpass the Hakaishin. Surely they could come up with something to allow Krillin or Yamcha or Tenshinhan to surpass the Hakaishin. Goodness knows they deserve it after being cold-shouldered for so long. Will it happen? Of course not. Toei and Toriyama have a convenient modus operandi set in place to map out how Goku is able to become astronomically stronger than he already is.
Whining about genes is pathetic. Tenshinhan, Yamcha and Kuririn are stronger than almost every other human because of their inborn talents—should their efforts be denigrated and spat on, and Satan pitied? But Satan is stronger than almost every other human too because of his natural advantages. Maybe Bulma deserves to surpass Beerus. I don't know, though...all humans are physically gifted in the department of strength compared to some other species. Maybe we should elevate Turtle to godhood.

Goku, as a Saiyan, was born to be weak. He overcame that through unbreakable determination. If Goku were human that wouldn't change.

User avatar
emperior
I Live Here
Posts: 4347
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2015 1:52 pm
Location: Dragon World
Contact:

Re: If or when goku reaches god of destruction level..

Post by emperior » Fri Sep 15, 2017 6:41 am

Simere wrote:
Lionel wrote:I would rather see someone else who isn't a Saiyan take the reigns and surpass the Hakaishin. Surely they could come up with something to allow Krillin or Yamcha or Tenshinhan to surpass the Hakaishin. Goodness knows they deserve it after being cold-shouldered for so long. Will it happen? Of course not. Toei and Toriyama have a convenient modus operandi set in place to map out how Goku is able to become astronomically stronger than he already is.
Whining about genes is pathetic. Tenshinhan, Yamcha and Kuririn are stronger than almost every other human because of their inborn talents—should their efforts be denigrated and spat on, and Satan pitied? But Satan is stronger than almost every other human too because of his natural advantages. Maybe Bulma deserves to surpass Beerus. I don't know, though...all humans are physically gifted in the department of strength compared to some other species. Maybe we should elevate Turtle to godhood.

Goku, as a Saiyan, was born to be weak. He overcame that through unbreakable determination. If Goku were human that wouldn't change.
The whole point of Goku's character is that he seeks strong enemies to challenge himself and get better. No other character is like that. Vegeta keeps staying on top only because his desire to prove he is the best is as strong as Goku's desire of challenges. Tenshinan, Krillin, Yamcha etc... never showed the same determination as Goku and Vegeta. Piccolo once did, but ever since he fused with Kami he became boring.
悟 “Vincit qui se vincit”

What I consider canonical

User avatar
Lionel
I Live Here
Posts: 2398
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:54 am

Re: If or when goku reaches god of destruction level..

Post by Lionel » Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:11 am

Simere wrote:
Lionel wrote:I would rather see someone else who isn't a Saiyan take the reigns and surpass the Hakaishin. Surely they could come up with something to allow Krillin or Yamcha or Tenshinhan to surpass the Hakaishin. Goodness knows they deserve it after being cold-shouldered for so long. Will it happen? Of course not. Toei and Toriyama have a convenient modus operandi set in place to map out how Goku is able to become astronomically stronger than he already is.
Whining about genes is pathetic. Tenshinhan, Yamcha and Kuririn are stronger than almost every other human because of their inborn talents—should their efforts be denigrated and spat on, and Satan pitied? But Satan is stronger than almost every other human too because of his natural advantages. Maybe Bulma deserves to surpass Beerus. I don't know, though...all humans are physically gifted in the department of strength compared to some other species. Maybe we should elevate Turtle to godhood.

Goku, as a Saiyan, was born to be weak. He overcame that through unbreakable determination. If Goku were human that wouldn't change.
Define "inborn talents". None of the earthlings have an intrinsic biological stimulant of a growth spurt that witnesses their power amplifying itself by an unpredictable variant that conveniently lets them off right next to or above the present big menace of the arc, nor does their species harness the capacity for achieving transformations that multiply power dozens/hundreds of times over in an instant. What the earthlings achieved is nothing short of spectacular, but I'm not in the habit of attributing it to some built-in component of theirs that somehow allowed them to reach those heights -- what they earned was acquired through sweat and toil. These inherent "gifts" only ever materialised themselves in the form of replicating certain techniques like the Kamehameha via mimicry.

Goku throughout Dragon Ball mirrored what the earthlings went through to achieve his power, with the Chonshinsui being a little more questionable than the rest of the other methods. Come Dragon Ball Z, he's training but much of it us has shifted to compensate this newly discovered genetic inheritance of his so that he can improve enormously. Goku assures King Kai of his ability to master the enhanced gravity through his own Saiyan heritage. From there he unwittingly exploits zenkais to enhance his strength during his training and on Namek itself, builds upon the transformations his species possesses, and proceeds to unlock it. These levels were seemingly unattainable to the earthlings (humans). Goku's fabled rags to riches story falls on its face because he was always described as a "genius". The only reason he lagged behind his species is because of the comparatively lacklustre conditions of the planet he grew up on.

On the issue of respective philosophies, the whole mantra of the Kame style isn't to defeat your opponent but to test your abilities and improve yourself. Goku was likely inspired by this ideology until after Daimao when he himself fell under the impression that he was invincible, which Popo needed to clarify for him was not the case. If Krillin and Yamcha abide by the tenets of Kame style then I don't see why they wouldn't be striving to improve themselves as well. One of the more probable reasons for why they retired may have to do with Toriyama deciding that he had no more use for them in his narrative so he disregarded that former philosophy of theirs so they could become civilians. Since Super's recent arcs, we know they still have room to improve. Tenshinhan wouldn't be any different as we saw how he embodies the desire to improve and test himself against others.

Post Reply