Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[LowRyder2005]

Just wanted to add that Frost explicitly states he's suppressing himself, and probably taking a little pleasure in torturing the poor Roshi; anything the already stamina-deprived Roshi does against should really be CIS on Frost's part.

I think Freeza will probably manhandle - or at best fight equally - with Ultimate Gohan, but I'm fairly sure at least some folks will start to say that Freeza went from "base Goku-tier (1)" to "Ultimate Gohan-tier (> 400)" by meditating.

Surprised nobody started the "Beyond God" spiel for base Goku with the big white aura preparing to fight the Ribrianne with the same big aura. I was thinking there was some decent chance for her to be "high SS/ low Blue" tier, but I think next episode might play it out more conservatively and put her at best equal-ish to Super Saiyan Goku.

[Zamasu55]

I seriously hope the manga fixes this mess. Goku fighting Ribrianne in base... laughable.

[Hakaishin Liquir]

New episode (finally).

- Maji Kayo gave Dyspo some trouble, I don't know if I'd say that makes him God level or he just caught off guard mixed with his weird body allowed him to do better than usual.

- Jiren defeated him in a single attack, couldn't tell if it was a blast or just the sheer force of a punch.

- Master Roshi at Max Power fought Final Form Frost. Never hit him and was beaten in one attack pretty quickly but he did make Frost look a bit uneasy.

- Base Vegeta smacked Frost away no problem and looked as though he was about to fight him in Base form before Magetta showed up.

- Magetta still looks to be Super Saiyan level, I would say he was superior to Frost still considering the way that Frost was using him.

- Frost clashed with Super Saiyan Vegeta for a couple seconds. I'm not really sure if Frost is supposed to be Base or Super Saiyan level or just very in the middle.

From the preview for the next episode.

- Base Gohan hits Frieza in the face which looks like it hurt him. Probably going to fight him in Base form for a bit.

- Base Goku meanwhile seems to be giving it a good go against Ribrianne who was earlier shown to be on par with Android 17.

The Gohan and Frieza fight will likely put any of this retcon theory business to rest as well. As strange as it would be, they'd just be that strong.

Magetta is at least SSJ2 Goku/Vegeta level. SSJ Vegeta can't even put a dent on the guy, not even with the Big Bang attack or the Final Flash.

[Doctor.]

Goku fighting Ribrianne in base... laughable.

Out of everything we've seen in this tournament... THAT'S what's laughable?

[Zamasu55]

Goku fighting Ribrianne in base... laughable.

Out of everything we've seen in this tournament... THAT'S what's laughable?

No, of course. Many other things are.

[TheMikado]

Godspeed you brave souls..

[LowRyder2005]

Magetta is at least SSJ2 Goku/Vegeta level. SSJ Vegeta can't even put a dent on the guy, not even with the Big Bang attack or the Final Flash.

The point of Magetta's gimmick is just that he's impervious to conventional damage; a fully powered attack of Super Saiyan Vegeta was already enough to put him out of commission.
In the "sheer power output" department he shouldn't really match even Super Saiyan Vegeta from the previous tournament, since Frost is labeled as the best combatant in general (before Super Saiyan Cabba appears and Hit actually shows his power).

[Doctor.]

Godspeed you brave souls..

There wasn't anything exactly wrong with this episode. Goku fighting Ribrianne in base is a bit odd, but Ribrianne was clearly holding back considering she can pull her weight (heh) against stronger opponents. Shitstorm starts next episode depending on how Frost and Freeza do against Gohan's different forms.

[Zamasu55]

Maji Kayo forced Goku to go Blue and was beating Dyspo, even if she caught him off guard...
Anyway, she should be AT LEAST Ssj2 level, probably beyond (if Ssj3's still a thing of course).

Hit said Frost got stronger, but Vegeta wanted to fight him in base... how?

Magetta is Ssj2 tier, Ssj Vegeta didn't do shit to him, but he's utterly terrified when he turns Blue and doesn't even try to attack him.

[TheMikado]

Godspeed you brave souls..

There wasn't anything exactly wrong with this episode. Goku fighting Ribrianne in base is a bit odd, but Ribrianne was clearly holding back considering she can pull her weight (heh) against stronger opponents. Shitstorm starts next episode depending on how Frost and Freeza do against Gohan's different forms.

I was referencing the NEP. I haven't seen the episode yet but I didn't read anything out of the ordinary.

[Hakaishin Liquir]

Magetta is at least SSJ2 Goku/Vegeta level. SSJ Vegeta can't even put a dent on the guy, not even with the Big Bang attack or the Final Flash.

The point of Magetta's gimmick is just that he's impervious to conventional damage; a fully powered attack of Super Saiyan Vegeta was already enough to put him out of commission.
In the "sheer power output" department he shouldn't really match even Super Saiyan Vegeta from the previous tournament, since Frost is labeled as the best combatant in general (before Super Saiyan Cabba appears and Hit actually shows his power).

Magetta isn't immune to damage. He's just has a very high durability. When was Frost labeled as the best combatant?

[Lord Frieza]

Maji Kayo forced Goku to go Blue and was beating Dyspo, even if she caught him off guard...
Anyway, she should be AT LEAST Ssj2 level, probably beyond (if Ssj3's still a thing of course).

Hit said Frost got stronger, but Vegeta wanted to fight him in base... how?

Magetta is Ssj2 tier, Ssj Vegeta didn't do shit to him, but he's utterly terrified when he turns Blue and doesn't even try to attack him.

SS2 < SS3 < SSG < SSB.

If a persons knees didn't turn to jelly against them odds in a fight, I'd recomend they get their head examined.

[LowRyder2005]

Maji Kayo forced Goku to go Blue and was beating Dyspo, even if she caught him off guard...
Anyway, she should be AT LEAST Ssj2 level, probably beyond (if Ssj3's still a thing of course).

Hit said Frost got stronger, but Vegeta wanted to fight him in base... how?

Magetta is Ssj2 tier, Ssj Vegeta didn't do shit to him, but he's utterly terrified when he turns Blue and doesn't even try to attack him.

Vegeta and Frost didn't even start to fight, so Vegeta might have simply transformed eventually. Alternatively, keeping Final Form Frost fairly close to base Goku and base Vegeta from the old arc, and the duo surpassing him later regardless of Frost's gains should also work (minus a little headscratcher of Vegeta turning Super Saiyan to punch him in the U6 Arc, but it could be intended to simply be some "overkill" thing).

My question: how can Magetta jump from SS to SS2 tier according to you when he does literally nothing different than whatever he did in his first appearance? He could tank everything even there except for a fully charged Final Flash, and I don't think Vegeta used it here unless I missed something.

Magetta isn't immune to damage. He's just has a very high durability. When was Frost labeled as the best combatant?

Sorry, I meant "nigh-impervious"; I used the term inappropriately. Frost is said to be their best fighter at some point during the tournament when he is figthing, I think. Definitely before Cabba turns Super Saiyan. I'm honestly not gonna look up the info, but it should be fairly easy to pinpoint. I'd want to make sure I'm not mixing up the anime and the manga, still.

[Bullza]

If Ultimate Gohan is say an even match for Final Form Frieza then it could strengthen the retcon I suppose.

If Base Goku back then was stronger than Super Saiyan God. Final Form Frieza was about as strong as Super Saiyan God. Now Ultimate Gohan would appear to be some kind of match for Super Saiyan Blue Goku then it could fit with any retcon.

But then it will also depend on how strong Frost is in comparison to Frieza. If Frost is also about as strong as Frieza and then Base Vegeta up to Super Saiyan Vegeta is on par with Frost.....then that would be kinda confusing because you'd get

Base (or Super Saiyan) Vegeta ~ Frost ~ Frieza ~ Ultimate Gohan

Even though Ultimate Gohan should be above Super Saiyan 2 Goku.

This is a ton of assumption though so we'll see how it plays out.

Hit said Frost got stronger, but Vegeta wanted to fight him in base... how?

Well Vegeta has grown stronger as well. We also never knew for certain (as it was talked about a lot back then) if Base Vegeta was stronger than Final Form Frost or not at the time. We would assume he wasn't but he could have been.

[Doctor.]

Maji Kayo seems to be a powerhouse, at least compared to the majority of weaklings in this tournament. Goku needed to go SSB to deal with him and he was able to restrain Dyspo.

[SuperDragoon]

I was watching the NEP and I never saw Gohan with a bang. He seemed to be in base the entire time which would make sense.

[BlueBasilisk]

I was watching the NEP and I never saw Gohan with a bang. He seemed to be in base the entire time which would make sense.

He's Ultimate when he punches Frieza in the face. It's really quick.

[SuperDragoon]

I was watching the NEP and I never saw Gohan with a bang. He seemed to be in base the entire time which would make sense.

He's Ultimate when he punches Frieza in the face. It's really quick.

Do you have a picture of it?

[LowRyder2005]

I was watching the NEP and I never saw Gohan with a bang. He seemed to be in base the entire time which would make sense.

I didn't see any shot of Gohan with the bang either, but in one cut he's without the bang and aura-less and in another shot you can clearly see his arm and the radiating, milky aura that lately (stress on lately) he only displayed with the Ultimate form.

He has almost certainly powered-up to some degree, probably (?) to his Ultimate state - if we limit ourselves to what happened recently and only to Gohan - when landing the punch on Freeza at least.

EDIT: Never mind. Let's say thanks to the photo-finish freeze shot provided. Turns out I had just seen a rather choppy Youtube preview.

[Doctor.]

He has the bang.



Retcon theory is pretty much confirmed if Freeza can handle him.