Is King Cold stronger than Freeza?

[Gog]

This seems to be a popular idea that circulates quite a lot in the greater fandom, but I have to ask the question how much truth does this statement have? And where did it originate from.

[Kaboom]

No, Cold isn't stronger than Freeza. I could have sworn there was a line from someone about the second ki alongside Freeza being even greater, but quickly zipping through the two relevant episodes (Z 118 and 119), I couldn't find it. It's certainly not in the manga either, so it might have been a dub-ism. Even if it is in there somewhere, there's also Gohan's line about how what they're feeling from Freeza is just a small percentage of his full power, so any comparison to be made between Freeza and Cold at that time would be unreliable.

Then on top of that, you've got every source out there, even Cold himself, labeling and treating Freeza as the "strongest in the universe," not his father. Along with Freeza assuming he'll now be strong enough to beat Goku alone, regarding Cold only as backup. Plus, every guidebook source I'm aware of to make mention of Cold's power describes it as being inferior to Freeza's.

So any misconception about Cold being stronger than Freeza probably comes from folks latching onto that phantom possibly-dub-only line comparing them, while overlooking pretty much everything else about it.

[GigaDrill]

It's either the dub that might have thrown in a line about one power level and a bigger power level, or that Cold looks a lot like Freeza's second form with fans assuming that he had transformation capabilities.

[Son_Gohan]

It's a filler line by Vegeta from Episode 119:




Not that he's sensing their full power, mind you. But at a resting state, King Cold seems superior, at least according to the anime.

[DBZ Macky]

It's a filler line by Vegeta from Episode 119:
Not that he's sensing their full power, mind you. But at a resting state, King Cold seems superior, at least according to the anime.

I always felt like Vegeta mistook Cold for Freeza and that the "so much larger Ki" he was sensing was actually Mecha-Freeza's. Though I don't know how some mechanical enhancements could actually increase someone's Ki.

[Khin]

... or that Cold looks a lot like Freeza's second form with fans assuming that he had transformation capabilities.

I subscribe to this theory myself, but I think whatever Cold’s power in his final form/absolute best, it has to be at least inferior to Freeza. Otherwise, everything stated and implied in regards to his power in the manga and guidebooks wouldn’t make sense.

There’s no evidence to suggest that Cold’s forms grants the same boost as Freeza, or the transformations of Freeza’s clan grants the same as each other like the Super Saiyan forms, and it became even more unlikely that it’s the case now that we have Frost.

[Grimlock]

I knew there was a line in the Japanese version stating clearly that King Cold was stronger than Freeza, but I couldn't find because it's actually Vegeta who says it, I always thought and was sure that it was Kuririn's or Tenshinhan's line.

[caiojoorge]

Does the fact the Frieza says that the only ones who have ever hurt him was his parents matter?

[VegettoEX]

Does the fact the Frieza says that the only ones who have ever hurt him was his parents matter?

I know I'm treading in murky water here for someone like me, but we don't get any context in terms of a timeframe for that statement. I always interpreted it as a childhood lashing, and surely Freeza is stronger as an adult(ish?) than he would have been were this interpretation correct.

(This thread was five months old, so it's a little bit on the borderline of "necroposting", but we'll just roll with it. I'd just ask folks be aware of dates on threads as you're digging around.)

[Captain Strawberry]

I think it would make sense if Cold was stronger (before Frieza's training) because it does explain to me how Cold would around so long without his son getting very annoyed at him and killing him.

[Polyphase Avatron]

Wasn't the line about only his parents hurting him retconned anyway? In some interview Toriyama says that Freeza was once beaten up by Beerus.

[theherodjl]

Cold has to be powerful enough that Freeza doesn't kill him outright, given that Freeza says something along the lines that he can't stand to hear his father's nagging. We all know what happens to those who annoy Freeza, the douchebag even intends to make Beerus pay despite the huge power difference between them.
Its possible that Cold may be able to transform too and that his true power may be on par with Freeza's, he just doesn't like fighting or transforming because he might be old and cranky.

[KBABZ]

I figured that Frieza, bastard that he is, had some respect for his father, given the few interactions we saw of them together.

It's a filler line by Vegeta from Episode 119:

[images!]

Not that he's sensing their full power, mind you. But at a resting state, King Cold seems superior, at least according to the anime.

It remained in DBZ Kai as well, but it's a bit over the place amongst other lines:

Frieza (on his way to Earth): I'm still the most powerful being in the universe!!

Tien (sensing them whilst in the mountains): And there's not just one source! There are two! And the second is larger still!
(the second source being King Cold, as Krillin and Gohan were just talking about Frieza, and Tien is continuing their conversation)

Vegeta (flying to the landing site): But what of this other power I'm sensing? Frieza's strength pales in comparison!

After the two have landed:
Gohan: "Yep, no doubt about it... that's Frieza! He's still alive!"
Krillin: "Not only that... but there's someone else with him who's even... more powerful!"

But what's ALSO worth noting is this exchange a few second later:

Yamcha: "Lemme get this straight! Frieza is the most powerful opponent any of us has ever seen, right?"
Gohan: "Uh-huh, but it gets way worse than that! 'Cause he can get even stronger than he is right now!"

So Gohan, in the FUNi Kai dub at least, is under the impression that Mecha Frieza is comparable to at the bare minimum his third "Xenomorph" form, or more presumably his most repressed form for most of Namek. It isn't ever explained how that even works, so my best guess is that Frieza can adjust his Power Level as well now, probably due to his robotic upgrades (kinda like changing the intensity of a fan), and it's fooling the Z Fighters. On the contradictory claims, maybe they're mistaking King Cold's energy for Frieza's since they're related and their base forms look very similar? Or something?

As for Frieza insisting he's the most powerful being in the universe, I always figured that King Cold was the real boss of the company (probably doing taxes while Frieza was on Namek) while Frieza is the more public-facing representative of top management. And Frieza asked his dad nicely if he could lay claim to the title of strongest in the universe since his dad wasn't a public figure.

[Olympian]

Doesn`t this come from the Manga, where it is implied in the conversations the Senshi have that Freeza was with someone whose power may be even greater or is that a translation mistep?

[Kamiccolo9]

The thing is, none of them besides Goku have sensed Freeza at 100% anyway, so they don't have a clue.

[VegettoEX]

Doesn`t this come from the Manga, where it is implied in the conversations the Senshi have that Freeza was with someone whose power may be even greater or is that a translation mistep?

There are a couple comments in chapters 329 and 330 about there being "another" "absurdly-large" ki signature, but they don't make direct comparisons between the two.

[dragonball0900]

The thing is, none of them besides Goku have sensed Freeza at 100% anyway, so they don't have a clue.

Well, Gohan did sense 100% Frieza since he was still on Namek when Frieza was 100%, he could've noticed Frieza's large increase of strenght.

As for King Cold vs Frieza, Frieza wins easily. Even if King Cold knows how to transform, it still wouldn't be useful against someone like Frieza since all data around says that Frieza is stronger than his father in every way.

[Juub]

As mentioned multiple times they don't make direct comparisons. They just said Frieza is alongside another very large Ki but they don't say whether or not it's larger or smaller.

[Tyro]

I'm surprised nobody has pulled the relevant quotes from the strength checker yet.

Spoiler:

Chapter: 329 (DBZ 135), P11.5
Kuririn: “Did you feel it, Gohan!? That absolutely incredible ki!”

Chapter: 329 (DBZ 135), P12.3
Tenshinhan: “It…it’s not just one… There’s another absurdly large ki…”

Chapter: 330 (DBZ 136), P2.3-4
Gohan: “Ku-Kuririn-san, did you notice it!? F-Freeza and ano-another large ki that resembles Freeza…!!”
Kuririn: “Y-yeah… There’s no way I couldn’t notice… ki this huge and gaudy…”

Chapter: 330 (DBZ 136), P10.3
Yamcha: “Wh-what are you going to do when you get closer?...!! They’re un-unbelievable monsters, aren’t they? An…and there are two of them!! It…it’s hopeless, isn’t it...?!!”

Chapter: 329 (DBZ 135), P14.1
Cold: “A small planet…Wouldn’t it be better if you just wiped it out in one shot?”
Freeza: “That wouldn’t satisfy me… I want to make [Goku] well acquainted with my powered-up self…”

Chapter: 330 (DBZ 136), P9.7
Yamcha: “So this guy called ‘Fr…Freeza’ has such terrible…ab…absurdly large ki…?”
Gohan: “This isn’t it…he gets much, much stronger…!”

Chapter: 330 (DBZ 136), P13.3-4
Cold: “The Earthlings don’t matter, but the Super Saiyan alone we absolutely must exterminate, by any means. The one who holds the greatest power in the universe must without a doubt be our clan.”
Freeza: “We can definitely defeat him if we go at him together, Papa. And I’ve powered up too, so I think I can probably go alone.”

Chapter: 331 (DBZ 137), P3.5
Freeza: “It’s an honor that my name should be known on this planet so far removed from the rest of the galaxy… However, unfortunately you don’t seem to know that I have the greatest power in the universe…”

Also of relevance is Cold's description from Daizenshuu 7.

Freeza's father. He is a shadowy presence in the organization, and nobody knows of his existence apart from his family and his direct subordinates, not even the Ginyu Special-Squad. Though he's the head of the strongest family in the universe, he is somewhat inferior to Freeza.

I agree with everyone else. Freeza is always implied to be the stronger of the two.

[VegettoEX]

I'm surprised nobody has pulled the relevant quotes from the strength checker yet.

I did. I posted the actual panels in Japanese .