"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[TysonWine]

I personally like the side-by-side shot. You can see the subtile different in their design better.

Yeah, it shows that Frosts design is kind of cheap knock off.

I was actually thinking the exact same thing. Like Frost looks like a patchwork of a character.

Frieza has a consistent and meaningful design.
Even the placement of the jewel parts and coloration of body parts is far superior. Looking at frost, his coloration doesn’t even look organic like skin when compared to Frieza. Frost looks like a fan-made Frieza clone when standing next to the original.

Add me to the list. The moment I looked at the picture I thought about how plain Frost looked next to Frieza. It's like his design is unfinished. If Frieza is 100% done, Frost is about 75% done.

[Shaqazooloo]

First, I debate, not argue. To me, there is no point coming to a forum if you're not willing to defend your point-of-view when questioned able it. I don't see forums as an echo chamber. You state your ideas, defend, and agree to disagree if the conversation starts to go in circles. Not, state your ideas, and then retreat when someone decides to poke holes through them and then state the poster has a beef.

I can somewhat agree that, its kinda the reason I don't post that often unless its something that i'm willing to back up. But in my case I really wasn't stating a point-of-view, I was more asking a question to everyone. To have you come out and debate whether or not one of my examples qualified for me asking was, in my opinion, unnecessary, especially since you agreed with me.

I don't see why me not agreeing with the examples your chose is called an argument or me keep responding coming off as confrontation. To be honest, to comes off as someone who just want to put their ideas forward, and then get hurt when it's questioned. This is a forum about a Japanese kid's show, no one's feelings should be hurt if someone doesn't see eye-to-eye on something or don't really get where the other person is coming from.

Well, it wasn't the main point of the post I had, again I was asking a question. You tried to say I was wrong and I defended myself because I was under the assumption that you disagreed with the entire thing. I didn't want to continue because we were essentially debating how people should interpret things based on wording. I didn't get my feelings hurt, I just thought it was pointless.

Admittedly, I do get a little too passionate, which is probably why I come off as aggressive when I don't mean too and I get some people don't really want to debate on a forum.

Cool. Atleast you understand why I might see it like that. Thats all I want. I'm not much of a debater, so it can be a bit off putting when someone gets a little to into it.

No it isn't rude. I never take what people say on the internet personally. If anyone have a problem with me, I prefer they're honest about it.

[Shaqazooloo]

I think Jimizu will get eliminated by Freeza, then he will claim that he and Frost will join forces and betray their respective teams, Gohan fights them and the fight ends with Frost attempting to betray Freeza only to get trolled.

How would they be able to go rogue and fight for themselves? Each team is fighting for their universe, if Frost and Freeza make their own team, what would they be fighting for? Man, the more and more I think about the team up the less sense it makes

[HeroR]

First, I debate, not argue. To me, there is no point coming to a forum if you're not willing to defend your point-of-view when questioned able it. I don't see forums as an echo chamber. You state your ideas, defend, and agree to disagree if the conversation starts to go in circles. Not, state your ideas, and then retreat when someone decides to poke holes through them and then state the poster has a beef.

I can somewhat agree that, its kinda the reason I don't post that often unless its something that i'm willing to back up. But in my case I really wasn't stating a point-of-view, I was more asking a question to everyone. To have you come out and debate whether or not one of my examples qualified for me asking was, in my opinion, unnecessary, especially since you agreed with me.

I don't see why me not agreeing with the examples your chose is called an argument or me keep responding coming off as confrontation. To be honest, to comes off as someone who just want to put their ideas forward, and then get hurt when it's questioned. This is a forum about a Japanese kid's show, no one's feelings should be hurt if someone doesn't see eye-to-eye on something or don't really get where the other person is coming from.

Well, it wasn't the main point of the post I had, again I was asking a question. You tried to say I was wrong and I defended myself because I was under the assumption that you disagreed with the entire thing. I didn't want to continue because we were essentially debating how people should interpret things based on wording. I didn't get my feelings hurt, I just thought it was pointless.

Admittedly, I do get a little too passionate, which is probably why I come off as aggressive when I don't mean too and I get some people don't really want to debate on a forum.

Cool. Atleast you understand why I might see it like that. Thats all I want. I'm not much of a debater, so it can be a bit off putting when someone gets a little to into it.

No it isn't rude. I never take what people say on the internet personally. If anyone have a problem with me, I prefer they're honest about it.

In this case, I wasn't saying you were 'wrong', more the example you uses didn't prove your point.

I can see why people don't like to debate, but I never go in to prove someone 'wrong'. Most of the time it's to give another POV, or trying to say that the person's line of thinking is flawed. I only try to prove someone wrong when they state something false or are misinformed, like Toriyama doesn't look at the anime of Super.

But I will try to be more mindful.

[TKA]

That's it. Toei just doesn't understand how to write Dragonball. Or they just don't care.

Dragonball characters don't just get angry and power up with new forms. There's a reason everyone thought Gohan was so remarkable: because he was the only one that could do it. It's never been a thing for anyone else. EVER. There was an entire arc of build up and training to get Kaioken. An entire arc of build up and powering up to get Super Saiyan. The entirety of the Android saga was characters figuring out how to pass Super Saiyan. The one form that comes out of nowhere, Super Saiyan 3, was meant to be a red herring, but in Toei world, you get mad enough you get a new form.

This is the shit I hate Gurren Lagann and many modern anime shows for. You just scream louder and you suddenly can do whatever. There is no tension. I preferred when Super had no stakes, since after Buu is supposed to be peace time, and the story could just exist as superfluous fluff, where viewers can enjoy these characters in a fresh way. But then the Future Trunks arc happened, and now this arc—Toei trying to tell a serious story with tension and drama, but absolutely fail at it at every turn.

There is no tension if their are no limits on the characters. If Luke could scream really hard and use the force to rip the Death Star in half, there would be no tension. It's because the limits of his abilities are firmly established and adhered to that we could get the dramatic finale to Episode 4. How can I care about this if characters can just scream and get 10 bajillion quintillion amarillion times stronger (I don't care about muh power levels; this is about writing 101)? Is destroying the tension, stakes and drama that YOU wanted in the story worth selling new toys? (Rhetorical question; of course it is.)

Hopefully Toyotaro can salvage this in the manga, as he usually does.

[Kinokima]

There is no tension anyways because we know all the characters survive thanks to the EOB. And even if we didn't know that we know no popular character will ever stay dead thanks to the Dragon Balls

Although I am someone who likes stuff like Gurren Lagann which is thematically strong. Actually while I love Dragon Ball for it's characters plot wise it never reaches Gurren Lagann's heights for me but then GL is only 27 episodes and actually can create real tension by having characters die. So I disagree with your comparison with Gurren Lagann.

That's just not going to happen with Dragon Ball. Even the erase the Universe thing will probably be reversed (I'll be shocked if it isn't)

That being said characters getting stronger from emotions to me isn't bad writing. It can lead to character development and powerful scenes. And certainly while we may know the characters don't know their ultimate fate.

I know I am rambling but for me where Super takes the characters is more important than the plot. The plot should advance the characters. That will keep Super compelling & fun for me at least.

[Simere]

That's it. Toei just doesn't understand how to write Dragonball. Or they just don't care.

What's it? What are you reacting to?

[perucho1990]

That's it. Toei just doesn't understand how to write Dragonball. Or they just don't care.

Dragonball characters don't just get angry and power up with new forms. There's a reason everyone thought Gohan was so remarkable: because he was the only one that could do it. It's never been a thing for anyone else. EVER. There was an entire arc of build up and training to get Kaioken. An entire arc of build up and powering up to get Super Saiyan. The entirety of the Android saga was characters figuring out how to pass Super Saiyan. The one form that comes out of nowhere, Super Saiyan 3, was meant to be a red herring, but in Toei world, you get mad enough you get a new form.

This is the shit I hate Gurren Lagann and many modern anime shows for. You just scream louder and you suddenly can do whatever. There is no tension. I preferred when Super had no stakes, since after Buu is supposed to be peace time, and the story could just exist as superfluous fluff, where viewers can enjoy these characters in a fresh way. But then the Future Trunks arc happened, and now this arc—Toei trying to tell a serious story with tension and drama, but absolutely fail at it at every turn.

There is no tension if their are no limits on the characters. If Luke could scream really hard and use the force to rip the Death Star in half, there would be no tension. It's because the limits of his abilities are firmly established and adhered to that we could get the dramatic finale to Episode 4. How can I care about this if characters can just scream and get 10 bajillion quintillion amarillion times stronger (I don't care about muh power levels; this is about writing 101)? Is destroying the tension, stakes and drama that YOU wanted in the story worth selling new toys? (Rhetorical question; of course it is.)

Hopefully Toyotaro can salvage this in the manga, as he usually does.

They got a Gurrent Lagann writtern in Yamaguchi

The problems with this arc are:
Making most Universes fodder
Lack of character development
Bad matchups as Doctor pointed it out
Treating DBS as a serious series when it clear that its at least 50% gag series.

[TheOne]

(Or) it could be be another Kale/Caulifla-centered episode in which they have to take on the likes of Gohan and Vegeta this time, with maybe Cabba thrown a bone.

I forgot about Gohan. Yeah I could see a 3 on 3 Super Saiyan fight since we've never seen something like that before.

Don't see it happening
Goku is either out of commission or busy on jiren to waste his time on inferior saiyans
Vegeta and gohan as well considering jiren Power

They're not considered inferior if Goku is battered up now are they? In my original post I said pointed out IF Goku is not out of commission. If Goku is still able to fight, ideal time to attack him is when he's exhausted from the new transformation as well as SSBKK. Seeing as how Caulifla and Kale have been laying low for awhile recovering, it'd be the prime time for them to attack the U7 Saiyans. Yes the U6 Saiyans are clearly inferior to U7 but don't put it past Toei to exploit what's going on. U7 Saiyans have been fighting back to back with no rest. It's clear that any opponent they face might have a slight advantage

[SansrivaaL]

Tho its a heroes pict, we all know something similar to this will happen in the show itself this coming special.

SSJGSSJKKx20GD

[Ki Breaker]

Tho its a heroes pict, we all know something similar to this will happen in the show itself this coming special.
[spoiler][/spoiler]
SSJGSSJKKx20GD

That's an awfully small spirit bomb..

[Kinokima]

As for the Saiyan episode I'd love a 3 on 3 fight. Although I am not really sure how Cabba or Caulifla could realistically be any real challenge. I guess Kale could be a challenge.

Maybe just Vegeta + Gohan against the 3 of them that could be an interesting fight. And I'd love a Vegeta & Gohan team up.

We all know Goku is going to get all the top fights so he doesn't have to get this one too. Although that doesn't mean he won't.

[HeroR]

They got a Gurrent Lagann writtern in Yamaguchi

The problems with this arc are:
Making most Universes fodder
Lack of character development
Bad matchups as Doctor pointed it out
Treating DBS as a serious series when it clear that its at least 50% gag series.

We got character development from Gohan, Roshi, Freeza, and Kale. So what do my mean "lack of character development"? If you're trying to say the character development wasn't good, that's one thing, but it's an outright falsehood that that arc lacks it. Also, 'characters being fodder' happened in every tournament arc in Dragon Ball. So I am not sure why people keep acting surprised that not everyone can beat up Goku at full power.

And Dragon Ball has always been a gag series at heart. Z only counts for a portion of the entire series and even the most tense moments have gags.

[JulieYBM]

That's it. Toei just doesn't understand how to write Dragonball. Or they just don't care.

Dragonball characters don't just get angry and power up with new forms. There's a reason everyone thought Gohan was so remarkable: because he was the only one that could do it. It's never been a thing for anyone else. EVER. There was an entire arc of build up and training to get Kaioken. An entire arc of build up and powering up to get Super Saiyan. The entirety of the Android saga was characters figuring out how to pass Super Saiyan. The one form that comes out of nowhere, Super Saiyan 3, was meant to be a red herring, but in Toei world, you get mad enough you get a new form.

This is the shit I hate Gurren Lagann and many modern anime shows for. You just scream louder and you suddenly can do whatever. There is no tension. I preferred when Super had no stakes, since after Buu is supposed to be peace time, and the story could just exist as superfluous fluff, where viewers can enjoy these characters in a fresh way. But then the Future Trunks arc happened, and now this arc—Toei trying to tell a serious story with tension and drama, but absolutely fail at it at every turn.

There is no tension if their are no limits on the characters. If Luke could scream really hard and use the force to rip the Death Star in half, there would be no tension. It's because the limits of his abilities are firmly established and adhered to that we could get the dramatic finale to Episode 4. How can I care about this if characters can just scream and get 10 bajillion quintillion amarillion times stronger (I don't care about muh power levels; this is about writing 101)? Is destroying the tension, stakes and drama that YOU wanted in the story worth selling new toys? (Rhetorical question; of course it is.)

Hopefully Toyotaro can salvage this in the manga, as he usually does.

The production crew are working on an exceedingly short schedule while trying to balance the harsh whims of the various production committee member representatives. Not only do they have to balance those of Shueisha, but they have to balances the wishes and whims of Bandai and even their own company's executives who are otherwise unaffiliated with the production. In other words, they're not exactly in the best position to make the best possible work.

Besides, nobody's gaining new power-ups through mere screaming. Kale's schtick is being like Broli, so that's going to be that, but Gokuu has been training and fighting new foes. He's on the precipice of a new level and the trauma of battling a far superior foe will push him forward, as it always has.

[BlueBasilisk]

Curious thought I just had. Remember these guys?
[spoiler][/spoiler]
There's a Golden Frieza in this set that was announced but never revealed. In light of the next episode's events I wonder if he's supposed to be paired with Gohan?

[perucho1990]

We got character development from Gohan, Roshi, Freeza, and Kale. So what do my mean "lack of character development"? If you're trying to say the character development wasn't good, that's one thing, but it's an outright falsehood that that arc lacks it. Also, 'characters being fodder' happened in every tournament arc in Dragon Ball. So I am not sure why people keep acting surprised that not everyone can beat up Goku at full power.

And Dragon Ball has always been a gag series at heart. Z only counts for a portion of the entire series and even the most tense moments have gags.

Kales was very rushed, there was no explanation how she controled the berserker power.

I didnt have an issue when she turned regular SSJ because it reminded me of that Digimon scene when Greymon evolves to Metal Graymon after evolving the wrong way in the beginning(Skull Greymon).

The Roshi one I would say it was good in episode 107, the directing in that episode was damn good, and Toshio writing helped making Frost a complete douchebag and very hateable.

Freeza got development in the recruitment episodes, and he might get more development tonight if his main goal was betraying Frost after he knew he was going to betray him.

And of course about Gohan, this could be a good chance to see him show real battle smarts.

[HeroR]

Kales was very rushed, there was no explanation how she controled the berserker power.

I didnt have an issue when she turned regular SSJ because it reminded me of that Digimon scene when Greymon evolves to Metal Graymon after evolving the wrong way in the beginning(Skull Greymon).

The Roshi one I would say it was good in episode 107, the directing in that episode was damn good, and Toshio writing helped making Frost a complete douchebag and very hateable.

Freeza got development in the recruitment episodes, and he might get more development tonight if his main goal was betraying Frost after he knew he was going to betray him.

And of course about Gohan, this could be a good chance to see him show real battle smarts.

Kale's character devolvement being rush isn't the same as lack of character devolvement. Plus, who would explain how she gained control since no one ever saw her form before?

[perucho1990]

We only know that Kale unlocked berserker due to jealously to anyone that comes close to Caulifla, and she only regular SSJ with rage, like Cabba did. Toei couldve done like Mob Psycho 100 and expand the way saiyans can unlock SSJ due to different emotions(Anger, jealously, sadness, etc) and the whole back tingling stuff.

Imagine if episode 113 has the Saiyan Girls saving Vegeta from Jiren, and if they land a punch on Jiren, the rage here will be legendary, even more than Episodes 66, 100.

[Kanassa]

We only know that Kale unlocked berserker due to jealously to anyone that comes close to Caulifla

Jealousy was a small part of that, the bigger factor was irrational fear and low self-esteem.

[MrBlackFox]

I refuse to believe Frieza will really betray U7, this thing is so cheap and predictable I'll call an outrage if it really happens

I rather think he'll try to gain their trust by eliminating Frost. As most said, it doesn't make any sort of sense to have him work with someone from another universe once that tournament started. Unless his aiming to become the strongest fighter and get that wish for himself, but again, can't see how a secret alliance with Frost will help make that happen.

What strongly bugs me is what reason he has to fight Gohan, he doesn't even need to distract Frost cause he's much stronger than him and could easily crush him easily enough

And yes, cooperate with another universe, apart from situations like Goku X Hit to come out from hard moments, is useless
Again, I hope they don't go on the easy and bad route of the Frieza evil for the 100th time and make us a surprise showing him " good" and useful