Super Episode 108 (24 September 2017)

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Re: Super Episode 108 (24 September 2017)

Post by Kagari » Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:12 am

It's a shame King Ryu wasn't the writer on this episode. He tends to be more consistent.

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Re: Super Episode 108 (24 September 2017)

Post by Gig » Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:23 am

TekTheNinja wrote:Though hey, I was actually just recently starting to like Frost well enough for what he is, so that's pretty cool- ANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNND HE'S DEAD. :roll:
Do you mean George R. R. Martin wrote Frost's story? :D

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Re: Super Episode 108 (24 September 2017)

Post by Ziggyz » Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:03 am

So I have a theory... I believe that goku did not one shot Gohan in they're 1v1.

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Re: Super Episode 108 (24 September 2017)

Post by PMD » Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:08 am

Great episode. Jaw-dropping when Zeno erased Frost after Freezer's betrayal. RIP Frost. (Btw, when was the last time in Dragon Ball we had an important character's death with no possible resurrection? Like, dead for good dead)

And I had chills when Freezer's referred to Gohan as "Son Gohan-san", and told him to work together. Like, OMFG that was some epic shit.

NEP looks dope.

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Re: Super Episode 108 (24 September 2017)

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Mon Sep 25, 2017 4:22 am

Comments on this episode:

- The narrator again says that Frost used the Reverse Mafuba technique... how the hell could he know it though?
- Ribrianne is fighting equally with base Goku now, but she was previously fighting equally with SSJ Vegeta... I know it's best not to question the powerscaling here, but really
- Is there any particular reason the light in the sky is moving so quickly now?
- I don't see why Gohan couldn't just counter Jimeze by reacting every time he tried to put his fingers on his head
- Where exactly are Gohan's 'blind spots'?
- Now I'm wondering, is Freeza the only dead person in the tournament? Surely at least one of the other universes would have thought of getting warriors from the afterlife
- When Whis says the Super Dragonballs can kill a god, does that include Zeno? Maybe the angels are conspiring to do just that...
- I wonder if Beerus would be allowed to attack a member of his own team from outside of the arena...
- Seems Shunkan Idou doesn't really help if your opponent is significantly faster than you...
- Freeza knows where the vital organs of a Yardrat are? Well, they do (or did) exist in Universe 7, so I suppose it's possible...
- Freeza is right, actually. If Gohan was in danger of losing why didn't he fight more seriously?
- Now someone is going to make a meme with Frost going "notice me sempai"
- I always read the episode summaries before watching the episodes and I think this is the first time I've regretted it. This would be so much more tense if I thought Freeza might actually betray them here.
- Can Frost sense ki? Otherwise, how would he know that Freeza's transformation is amazing?
- I thought the bulky form was discarded because it was not efficient. Or was that a fan theory? Also, if Frost can use that form, why didn't he use it in the previous tournament? Had he not learned it yet?
- "In battle, it's best to use your full potential early on" - this pretty much contradicts every fight in the entire franchise
- I wonder if Frost would have been able to get off that shot if he did it faster with less warning...
- "Can Goku win?" Well, he does have a bunch of more powerful forms he's not using...
- It looks like Ribrianne has a new form or technique
- If Jiren is really a good guy, the Spirit Bomb shouldn't work on him, right? Also, it looks like he has something weird going on with Belmod... like the latter is holding some blackmail over him or something

Overall a very enjoyable episode although some parts sort of dragged
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Re: Super Episode 108 (24 September 2017)

Post by PMD » Mon Sep 25, 2017 4:43 am

Polyphase Avatron wrote:Comments on this episode:


- I always read the episode summaries before watching the episodes and I think this is the first time I've regretted it. This would be so much more tense if I thought Freeza might actually betray them here.
But we have to admit that (maybe some people saw it coming, I don't know) the plot twist at the end was very well hidden from Toei. They publicly said Freeza would betray U7 but then it was all a trap to Frost. That was kind of cool, imo.

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Re: Super Episode 108 (24 September 2017)

Post by Saturnine » Mon Sep 25, 2017 4:44 am

Yeah, there was not much of a point for Gohan not using his ultimate power all the time. It's not like it drains any ki, since it's not technically a transformation.

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Re: Super Episode 108 (24 September 2017)

Post by Gig » Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:14 am

Polyphase Avatron wrote:Comments on this episode:
- The narrator again says that Frost used the Reverse Mafuba technique... how the hell could he know it though?
Fictional fighters are quick at learning techniques after seeing them once, to dodge/repel (do you remember the classic "The same attack won't work twice" trope from Saint Seya?) or to copy. Noone "taught" Piccolo how to reverse a Mafuba, but the Mafuba was used against his previous incarnation.
- I don't see why Gohan couldn't just counter Jimeze by reacting every time he tried to put his fingers on his head
I was wondering something "Jimeze puts fingers on head, then spam energy in all directions, do some kind of energy barrier, spin around yourself, do something!"
- Where exactly are Gohan's 'blind spots'?
Where he can't see. E.g. behind his back if he's looking forwards, or in front of him if he's looking over his shoulder.
- I wonder if Beerus would be allowed to attack a member of his own team from outside of the arena...
Interesting question.
- Seems Shunkan Idou doesn't really help if your opponent is significantly faster than you...
As Goku was not able to use it against the ultra-fast Dyspo, it looks like it's the case.
- Can Frost sense ki? Otherwise, how would he know that Freeza's transformation is amazing?
Well, he may just like the transformation for its look. However, it's probable he can sense ki... I don't remember ever seeing him with a scouter, so we can guess he always needed to evaluate his opponents on his own.
- I thought the bulky form was discarded because it was not efficient. Or was that a fan theory? Also, if Frost can use that form, why didn't he use it in the previous tournament? Had he not learned it yet?
- "In battle, it's best to use your full potential early on" - this pretty much contradicts every fight in the entire franchise
I have not understood if those advices from Frieza were a second trick inside the trick or not.

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Re: Super Episode 108 (24 September 2017)

Post by Pluto » Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:28 am

PMD wrote:And I had chills when Freezer's referred to Gohan as "Son Gohan-san", and told him to work together. Like, OMFG that was some epic shit.
Calm the expectations down mate, we are in for a treat obviously, but definitely not through the aforementioned teaming many expect from Frieza.
I am pretty sure, Frieza would single-hand Frost without even trying to act or pretend. He is up to no good, words like team work and respect never come out of his mouth, at least with no good intention.
Currently, all his "comrades" are an aid for him to reach the SDB. He has two battles, to win for U7, and to grab the SDB from the other contestants, things may only change with the appearance of Jiren and Gokus limit breaker, else i dont see him piss his invisible pants with his asexual genitals.

Oh yea, that someone would call him Senpai i would've never imagined.
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Re: Super Episode 108 (24 September 2017)

Post by PMD » Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:51 am

Pluto wrote:
PMD wrote:And I had chills when Freezer's referred to Gohan as "Son Gohan-san", and told him to work together. Like, OMFG that was some epic shit.
Calm the expectations down mate, we are in for a treat obviously, but definitely not through the aforementioned teaming many expect from Frieza.
I am pretty sure, Frieza would single-hand Frost without even trying to act or pretend. He is up to no good, words like team work and respect never come out of his mouth, at least with no good intention.
Currently, all his "comrades" are an aid for him to reach the SDB. He has two battles, to win for U7, and to grab the SDB from the other contestants, things may only change with the appearance of Jiren and Gokus limit breaker, else i dont see him piss his invisible pants with his asexual genitals.
I know all that, and I agree with everything you just said. I was just reacting to that particular moment when he said those things because you wouldn't predict in a million years that Freeza would 1) call Gohan "Son Gohan-san" (it was a "Vegeta talking to Roshi in a caring way" level of surprise) and 2) tell him to colaborate and get the job done, even though it could be a trap and bs. None of us trust that son of a bitch, but it was a cool moment. I don't even like the whole idea of Freeza being in the ToP to begin with.

Random PS: RIP Frost and Gowasu.

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Re: Super Episode 108 (24 September 2017)

Post by BrolyKale » Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:46 am

The only good thing about this episode : Freezer. Without him it'd be boring.
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Re: Super Episode 108 (24 September 2017)

Post by OverHeaven » Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:04 am

PMD wrote:Great episode. Jaw-dropping when Zeno erased Frost after Freezer's betrayal. RIP Frost. (Btw, when was the last time in Dragon Ball we had an important character's death with no possible resurrection? Like, dead for good dead)

And I had chills when Freezer's referred to Gohan as "Son Gohan-san", and told him to work together. Like, OMFG that was some epic shit.

NEP looks dope.
We still don't know if he is dead permanently and can not be ressurected or not.
Unless something happens before the end of the tournament, there is no way that fighters like Hit and Caulifla will be erased permanently when universe 6 loses.

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Re: Super Episode 108 (24 September 2017)

Post by Freezerbaby » Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:23 am

Really, really sad about Frost getting erased, I hope all the erased ones get resurrected at some point, on the other hand, I´ve always liked freeza as a villain, but this is too much, this arc is hyping him up to a level not even his own movie was able to,easily outsmarting jimeze, fake fighting gohan ( goku vs 4 stars dragon fight came to mind), ringing out frost after tricking him...

I have to admit that I would´ve liked his alliance with frost to last longer and make it more worthwile( picture freeza taking gohan out only to have frost do the same to hit, then gets ringed out by freeza, leaving him, goku and jiren as the last ones remaining), but I can realize that this is how this arc has been about all along, the neps and previews mislead us only to have things pan out the opposite way, all in just one episode.

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Re: Super Episode 108 (24 September 2017)

Post by RedHeat » Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:47 am

Kinda fishy that this episode has more pages in this weekly thread than the ep 107 even though that one was considered better.
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Re: Super Episode 108 (24 September 2017)

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:51 am

RedHeat wrote:Kinda fishy that this episode has more pages in this weekly thread than the ep 107 even though that one was considered better.
To be fair, a decent portion of the discussion here has been power-scaling grievances, something we could do with a lot less of in these episode threads.

Not to mention that complaints and negativity garner more attention and comments from people than positive things. The more people like something, the less they'll have to say about it because they liked it and felt satisfied.

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Re: Super Episode 108 (24 September 2017)

Post by CJStriker_CBR » Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:17 am

PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote:
RedHeat wrote:Kinda fishy that this episode has more pages in this weekly thread than the ep 107 even though that one was considered better.
To be fair, a decent portion of the discussion here has been power-scaling grievances, something we could do with a lot less of in these episode threads.

Not to mention that complaints and negativity garner more attention and comments from people than positive things. The more people like something, the less they'll have to say about it because they liked it and felt satisfied.
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Honestly their was allot more in this espide to have to debate about;

~~~~ The Question of the Base form fighting between Ribrianne and Goku when they are both more powerful then that.
~~~~ The Treatment of Gohan and why he was not used better or made to us higher levels sooner.
~~~~ The Elmination and then Erasing of Frost and his interaction with Frieza.

I know their are others too but these seem to be the main focus debates that I take notice off. Always when their are plot points that don't make sense and leave fans scratching their heads or feelings of being let down when some where easy to just show by basic story standards, it will spark much debate for the fans to make sense of and fix what the writers seem to have messed-up, that is common of any story of any medium that does this. :lol:
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Re: Super Episode 108 (24 September 2017)

Post by PsionicWarrior » Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:02 pm

Strong point: Freeza, no need to explain lol
Weak point: Gohan, at this point I need to see him going badass please lol

Frost getting erased by Zeno was awesome, albeit not serious enough. I mean, this scene should have calmed everybody down, but it was almost a gag when it should be the dramatic reality of the stakes of this tournament. That's a bit the problem of the whole arc IMO, I want to feel the survival side in the tournament where warriors fight for survival, and insofar I don't.

Overall good episode.

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Re: Super Episode 108 (24 September 2017)

Post by Lionel » Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:34 pm

Goku's introductory bout with Ribrianne was terribly generic, in my opinion. Nothing much stood out about it -- just your typical collision flurries, shockwaves, and one size fits all energy projectiles. The attitude of Ribriranne doesn't really appeal to me and thus far I've found her combat "skills" to be monotonous at best. Her pheromone chemical blanket episodes back was more compelling as it explored a dynamic of combat which you don't usually see in Dragon Ball. All of the appraisement from the non-participating universes seems unwarranted when you realise that they should have recalled Goku's transformations during the exhibition matches. Ribrianne distinguished herself sometime back for successfully opposing a Super Saiyan and disrupting #17's barrier. However, none of what she has done is enough to offset the apparent echelon of power in this tournament. Ribrianne is the topmost line of defence for Universe 2. Once she's been eliminated that will be it for U2 unless something unexpected happens with their remaining participants. Oh, and on the matter of subdued power exertions, I subscribe to the theory of both fighters intentionally limiting themselves for arbitrary reasons. Goku wishes to test his capabilities against an opponent whom he deems worthy while Ribrianne is trying to validate the quintessence of her motivations, love; whatever that means. It's unfortunate to say but such an element might be more provocative to the viewership if it wasn't already predictably linked to something as ridiculously trite as romantic love. If the studio attempted to embellish Ribrianne's backstory by revealing family members, perhaps a sibling, friend or parent whom she had a particularly close attachment to, her tangents about love's significance might carry more respectability to itself; as it stands, we know she's just fulfilling the trappings of the magic girl genre of anime/manga.

Besides his impressive utilisation of Instant Transmission, Jimeze was disappointingly one-dimensional. We know nothing else about these fabled technique armories that the Yardratians are purported to have. Maybe Toei just didn't want to conceive a whole array of odd different techniques for a disposable character who was offered up to make Freeza look impressive relative to Gohan; which leads me into one of the most contentious aspects of the episode, Gohan's competency during his fight with Jimeze. People assert that anyone who is tactically minded would not have been subjected to an unassailable bombardment of attacks in the manner which Gohan suffered. My retort is that the mechancis of Instant Transmission leave the victim unable to sense where precisely they'll appear. You have to essentially do what Goku did in his battle with Hit by discerning where they're going to attack so can be ready for a defencive countermeasure of some kind. You're otherwise left in the same predicament that ailed not just Gohan, but multiple other fighters like Copy Vegeta, Toppo, and Buu (already saw the Instant Transmission but was still susceptible to being attacked via it). It should be noted that Freeza took the time to stand back from afar and observe Jimeze in action before getting involved; he also had the luxury of possessing a fifth usable appendage that can guard his back. What good did Vegeta's experiences or wits offer to his copy close as he was being pressured by Goku using exactly the same kind of feint tactics employed in this episode by Jimeze?

You have to admit that Freeza's presence still manages to carry weight behind it. His torturous pummeling of Jimeze wasn't quite so graphic or psychologically devastating as Vegeta's tribulation of it on Namek, but it still looked quite striking in relation to how this tournament has interpreted sustained damage in this tournament thus far. Hop threatened to mutilate Vegeta's face and Prum's attacks were dismembering Piccolo enough to cause him to secrete copious amounts of fluid from stumps where his arms should be, but none of that appears to be recognised by Universe 2. I suppose given the circumstances they were primarily considered about the brutality being directed towards their participants instead of savagery being existent in the tournament as a whole. From their perspective, Freeza might seem sociopathically inhumane. Although his actions did seem to portray the deities of Universe 2 in a more amiable light. Pell seemed genuinely concerned about Jimeze's well-being when the Yardratian returned to the benches severely injured. Helles herself was disgusted by Freeza's conduct, possibly indicating that she cares for her other fighters apart from the Kamikaze Fireballs. Freeza doesn't even care.

The fact Freeza attributes Gohan's condition to his lack of willingness to use all of his power suggests to me that he may have been exerting more in order to get the upperhand against Jimeze. It would help to rationalise why Freeza was able to surprise Jimeze using his own mobility before the Yardratian could attempt an attack after exiting from teleportation.

In light of what Freeza describes as being a "grudge" harboured by himself and Frost against the Saiyans, I have to ask what it is that could make Frost feel animosity towards them. Was it his defeat at the hands of Vegeta during the previous tournament that drives him into seeking them out for retribution? Frost did make it a priority to voice his discontent with Vegeta for his past defeat while aspiring to gain his retribution. I'm not sure if that could be painted in the same macabre shades of depravity as Freeza's seething hatred which saw him pursuing the Saiyan remnants to the ends of the galaxy so he could wipe them out. If he feels dismayed about his true personality being unmasked then he should be faulting Jaco who discerned the poisoned tip needle he was covertly using against opponents. I still feel as though Frost hasn't quite sunken to the same depths of nefariousness as Freeza. However, his conduct after having been eliminated seemed grossly inconsistent with how he portrayed himself after being defeated during the Champa arc. I don't like Frost continuing to be subjected to the personality faults of Freeza. I don't want to see the same petty resentment and irrational action that typified Freeza throughout the Namek arc. Frost was more pragmatic in that sense, preferring to conceal himself and operate from the shadows. What's more, he wasn't above working alongside others, even going so far to demonstrate a measure of trust in them while at the same time holding the likes of Champa to his word about having his record purged. Where's the Frost who, in spite of his shady dealings, was still proving to be a few moral shades lighter than Freeza? I miss that Frost. Oh, and to Freeza denouncing Frost for being "amateurish", aren't you the same blood crazed mutant who was counting on a relative that believed power comes from a sword to defeat the Super Saiyan who once defeated you? No, in some ways Cold might be more logical because at least he proposed a sensible alternative to Freeza's irrational one on one rematch shenanigans.

I'm part of the collective of fans who felt disappointed with Freeza's brokered alliance with Frost ultimately leading nowhere. Some of us theorised that they would hunker down and wait until the final moments, observing their surroundings and watching out for each other until the right moment where they could spring into action. Sadly, our hopes were dashed with this episode. Almost nothing about their actions together really necessitated any sort of alliance to be formed. They momentarily contemplate on who should be the one to fight Gohan, exchange some compliments and words of "advice" about transformations and then proceed to double cross one another. Gohan comprehending Freeza's ruse and putting on a display to give a false impression to Frost didn't help matters neither. I actually felt for Frost because he genuinely seemed to admire and respect Freeza, even going so far as to use an honorific designated for those in positions that are deemed respectable. Freeza lived up to his character expectations by turning coat against his prospective ally, but it's still somewhat a tragedy for Frost because his arc appears to have ended, at least for the tournament. I'm surprised he didn't use that bulked up form against Vegeta. Did he only just acquire it after witnessing Freeza use it? If not then it doesn't make sense for Frost to neglect attempting it during previous battles.

I generally believe the episode could have been better. The writing wasn't exactly top-notch quality, both Frost's personal character as well as his alliance with Freeza ultimately amounted to nothing; the same can be said of Jimeze and his species' alleged technique roster. It reminds me of Some aspects that I did enjoy were the input from the earthlings and the theories put forth by Whis and others about Freeza's true intentions. We still don't know what his strategy is for the whole event. Cabba's cameo scuffle with Toppo could have been utterly removed and you would be missing nothing. I saw no purpose or benefit to including that exchange except to reinforce the general chaos of the event. Cabba should have been eliminated the moment Toppo moved in his general direction; the power difference would be astronomical, probably making the one between Namek arc Freeza and Ginyu look small by comparison. It's just another inconsistent brandishing to add to the already laundry list of power woes that this series has. Borareta's brief fight with Gohan was entertaining. Mechanical fighters aren't all too often shown in DB material so it's refreshing when we get to see them on screen for a change. Interesting note is that I think Universe 3 might have the most fighters remaining after 7 and 6.

Next episode appears to be what has been hyped up for some time now, Goku and Jiren's climactic showdown. I can't say I'm all too excited about the prospect. Jiren has proven to be one of the most unremarkable antagonists the show has ever produced. Nothing about him really stands out apart from being a member of an organisation committed to meting out justice. Otherwise, he's like a generic off-brand combination of Hit's stoicism and Freeza's alienish appearance. The most intriguing details about the next episode are the Spirit Bomb, Kaioken x20 and Ribrianne's ethereal esque wings and bow.

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Re: Super Episode 108 (24 September 2017)

Post by Daimo-Rukiri » Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:43 pm

Overall the episode was great, wasn't expecting Frost to get eliminated but maybe KOd from Vados.
We all knew Freeza would double cross I mean.. c'mon, it was pretty obvious!
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Re: Super Episode 108 (24 September 2017)

Post by PsionicWarrior » Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:54 pm

Lionel wrote:Goku's introductory bout with Ribrianne was terribly generic, in my opinion.
Oh yeah that felt like filler.
I'm part of the collective of fans who felt disappointed with Freeza's brokered alliance with Frost ultimately leading nowhere. Some of us theorised that they would hunker down and wait until the final moments, observing their surroundings and watching out for each other until the right moment where they could spring into action. Sadly, our hopes were dashed with this episode.


Oh boo-hoo :P
I actually loved it, 100% fitting Freeza's char: "Never trust anyone" then bam he nukes him, it was great.

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