The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[Dragon Ball Gus]

As per the manga what if goku arrived at zenos after he erased all the scrub universes. Does he live out his days in a random universe, live with zeno? Beg zeno? Get msd and attack?

In xenoverse canon I'm sure they'd offer stranded goku to join them.

Wrong thread!

Ah damn, can a mod move it, or shall I just repost?

Maybe just repost.

[apex_pretador]

Jimeze vs. Lavender

Who wins?

Jimiz is superior to Piccolo,Lavender isn't.

How does Jimeze being base Gohan make him superior Piccolo?

Post training base Gohan isn't that far off from Piccolo. He was able to hold his own against base Goku in practice fight and base goku/vegeta are not inferior to Piccolo.

Gohan only went mystic to fight Frieza, and it seems current mystic Gohan is slightly above final form Frieza,

Something I expected already to happen, and hopefully it shuts up all the "Gohan is SSB level" talk.

who stomped Jimeze

.
Ofcourse, he is much stronger.

Didn't you tell me before you thought Piccolo could compete with mystic Gohan?

He did compete with Gohan off screen, but that was gohan at his original power level and Piccolo was still beneath him. Gohan got a lot stronger than that.

If you believe that you should believe Piccolo is above Jimeze.

Even if you don't consider base Gohan to be piccolo level, you should remember that Goku was super-saiyan when fighting Jimiz. Also Jimiz impressed Ribanne with his power, who is atleast #17 level and can give SS vegeta a good fight and be too much for based goku

Well, atleast in my personal canon.

[dragon boss z]

Post training base Gohan isn't that far off from Piccolo.

I think Piccolo should at least be around ssj Gohan level now, though who knows with Super anymore.

He was able to hold his own against base Goku in practice fight and base goku/vegeta are not inferior to Piccolo.

Gohan also held is own against base Goku before he even started training again while he was dressed as the great saiyaman, and he even pushed Goku to go ssj and their ssj forms fought evenly. In universe explanation, Goku is always holding back and we can't judge off of him. Out of universe explanation, the writers don't know or care what they are doing with power scaling.

He did compete with Gohan off screen, but that was gohan at his original power level and Piccolo was still beneath him. Gohan got a lot stronger than that.

I only think Gohan got a couple of times stronger. He would still probably lose to buu saga ssj Vegito tbh.

Even if you don't consider base Gohan to be piccolo level, you should remember that Goku was super-saiyan when fighting Jimiz. Also Jimiz impressed Ribanne with his power, who is atleast #17 level and can give SS vegeta a good fight and be too much for based goku

Well, atleast in my personal canon.

Goku seems pretty close to Ribranne in base. And Caulifla just knocked away Jimiz in base casually. Jimiz just seems he can fight stronger opponents because of his IT spam. I think Piccolo would fight smart enough to win, or at least put up a good fight. We'll hopefully see more from Piccolo soon.

[apex_pretador]

---

Well I'm a massive Piccolo fan so I can only hope that he is indeed stronger than Base Gohan and even Jimiz, and gets a few good moments in the battle royal, but considering how he's being treated worse than Tien, I would be surprised.

Damn all my favourites except Freeza are getting terrible treatment so far.

[dragon boss z]

Well I'm a massive Piccolo fan so I can only hope that he is indeed stronger than Base Gohan and even Jimiz, and gets a few good moments in the battle royal, but considering how he's being treated worse than Tien, I would be surprised.

Damn all my favourites except Freeza are getting terrible treatment so far.

Ya I could see Piccolo being nerfed, I just hope he doesn't. Logically he should be quite a bit above base Gohan. I noticed something interesting in ep 30 (i think it was 30). When Goku goes to recruit Piccolo Gohan asks to join, but Goku is hesitant, implying Piccolo>Gohan (which would include ssj), yet in the RoF arc just a couple episodes prior ssj Gohan seemed to be far above Piccolo and even base Gohan was implied to possibly be stronger (though this makes no sense). They just love to nerf Piccolo. I still can't believe they thought it was a good Idea to have a Frieza soldier stomp Piccolo. And it wasn't just that Tagoma was absurdly strong (he was for a soldier though) when Krillin was in trouble the fodder soldiers were able to hold back Piccolo and Gohan to stop them from helping, lmao.

[apex_pretador]

Ya I could see Piccolo being nerfed, I just hope he doesn't. Logically he should be quite a bit above base Gohan. I noticed something interesting in ep 30 (i think it was 30). When Goku goes to recruit Piccolo Gohan asks to join, but Goku is hesitant, implying Piccolo>Gohan (which would include ssj), yet in the RoF arc just a couple episodes prior ssj Gohan seemed to be far above Piccolo and even base Gohan was implied to possibly be stronger (though this makes no sense). They just love to nerf Piccolo. I still can't believe they thought it was a good Idea to have a Frieza soldier stomp Piccolo. And it wasn't just that Tagoma was absurdly strong (he was for a soldier though) when Krillin was in trouble the fodder soldiers were able to hold back Piccolo and Gohan to stop them from helping, lmao.

I think it might be because different writers handle different episodes and they focus more on developing toriyama's "barebones" into episodes than discussing with each other for consistency.

And considering the fact that they are making money despite of this, it will continue to happen regardless of what fans want and what we deserve as long as we are watching and merch is selling. Same with WWE, they will continue pushing Roman Reigns as they don't care as long as merch is selling.

Atleast I am happy Freeza is getting the push he deserves.

I still can't believe they thought it was a good Idea to have a Frieza soldier stomp Piccolo. And it wasn't just that Tagoma was absurdly strong (he was for a soldier though)

Well, Tagoma took down base Gohan with ease too. Although it overall was obviously bad writing

When Goku goes to recruit Piccolo Gohan asks to join, but Goku is hesitant, implying Piccolo>Gohan

I think that's because Gohan can't maintain his super saiyan and is rusty AF? The trunks statement from vegeta on the other hand, does prove that Piccolo >> SS Trunks, which many here refused to believe for long.

[Noah]

New match (as Champa ordered, back in the RoF arc):

- Vados vs. Beerus & Whis

[Berserker1921]

New match (as Champa ordered, back in the RoF arc):

- Vados vs. Beerus & Whis

Vados one shots Beerus. Whis might be able to win. But if Vados is as strong as she claims she is. Then 6/10 times she wins.

[dragon boss z]

Well, Tagoma took down base Gohan with ease too. Although it overall was obviously bad writing

But at that point base Gohan should be far weaker than Piccolo. At that point it should go base Gohan<<base BoG Goku<<100% namek Frieza<<Piccolo<=>ssj Gohan<<perfect Cell

I think that's because Gohan can't maintain his super saiyan and is rusty AF? The trunks statement from vegeta on the other hand, does prove that Piccolo >> SS Trunks, which many here refused to believe for long.

I'm fine with that because I think trunks is weaker than namek Frieza, and definitely Piccolo. In episode 21 when Bulma says her son killed Frieza Jaco looked at kid Trunks and said impossible, a kid can't kill Frieza, and Bulma said of course not, it was Trunks from the future. Though I do think ssj Goten and Trunks should be final form Frieza tier.

[apex_pretador]

In episode 21 when Bulma says her son killed Frieza Jaco looked at kid Trunks and said impossible, a kid can't kill Frieza, and Bulma said of course not, it was Trunks from the future. Though I do think ssj Goten and Trunks should be final form Frieza tier.

Did Jaco know trunks could go super Saiyan?
Also they were both well above #18 in the tourney

[dragon boss z]

Did Jaco know trunks could go super Saiyan?

I don't think so, but Bulma did.

Also they were both well above #18 in the tourney

There is no proof of this. She was just shocked by their power, but imo that's because she was amazed how kids so young could be that strong. Goten was just learning how to control ki blasts, base Namek Goku was a master of fighting. Trunks could barely move in 150x gravity in base, Goku was casually training in 100x gravity before he arrived on Namek. Frieza and Goku have real feats, Goten and Trunks don't. Can Goten and Trunks be above 18? Yes. But there is no solid proof either way and Super is just making them look weaker than ever. They even had trouble with a big snake in episode 1, lol.

[apex_pretador]

Also they were both well above #18 in the tourney

There is no proof of this. She was just shocked by their power, but imo that's because she was amazed how kids so young could be that strong.

Why would she use a lethal technique like destructo disc if she was just "shocked"?

Also, Goten told trunks to be careful, despite knowing she was once stronger than vegeta

Goten was just learning how to control ki blasts, base Namek Goku was a master of fighting

Does that mean Goten is weaker than 22nd TB Goku, because he had perfected control over kamehameha

Trunks could barely move in 150x gravity in base, Goku was casually training in 100x gravity before he arrived on Namek.

Trunks wasnt adjusted to it.

Frieza and Goku have real feats, Goten and Trunks don't.

That I can agree

Can Goten and Trunks be above 18? Yes. But there is no solid proof either way

Sure,but the implications were solid.

and Super is just making them look weaker than ever. They even had trouble with a big snake in episode 1, lol.

True that. Even jaco can one-shot super-large animals.

[dragonball0900]

We also don't have to rely that much on Super when it comes to Goten and Trunks. They are sort of treated badly in there when it comes to their strenght (even when they can't go to the ROF battle field, unlike Roshi, Krillin and Tien, who should logically be weaker than them). Bulma isn't reliable when it comes to powers. She obviously wouldn't know how strong Trunks is, and considering that Trunks is a kid, which for both Bulma and Jaco, it would be unlikely for an inexperienced kid to defeat Frieza.

Let's not forget that Piccolo was totally amazed by their power, even after he said they were "Earth's only hope" (unlike Goku, who was seeing them without any sort of amusement). That would mean that the kids can potentially be above Piccolo, or below, at least close to his power. I put Trunks on the same level his future counterpart had during the Cell Games, while Goten would be around 50% Cell Games Goku strenght.

[dragon boss z]

Why would she use a lethal technique like destructo disc if she was just "shocked"?

Why would she use a lethal technique at all? It's clearly just bad writing just like how Krillin spammed the destructo disc in the ToP. Just imagine if she cut one of them in half and they died in agony bleeding to death. I doubt they would forgive 18 and I doubt she would risk that. If anything it was just a weakened disc that would only cut clothes.

Also, Goten told trunks to be careful, despite knowing she was once stronger than vegeta

There is no way Trunks knows exactly how strong Vegeta was, and even if he did that statement is him acknowledging her power.

Does that mean Goten is weaker than 22nd TB Goku, because he had perfected control over kamehameha

Obviously not, but characters at that time couldn't even spam ki attacks. Goten clearly has more power than that. In his base at that time he was at the very least Raditz level.

Sure,but the implications were solid.

It was also implied base Goku and Vegeta were above Piccolo. Now we have conformation they weren't even above Frieza and Goten and Trunks keep looking like scrubs in Super. Imo they were being hyped up for the arc, but now since they aren't important they were nerfed.

Also if you go off of Yo son Goku and his friends return, base Goten and Trunks are about equal with fighters who should be comparable to first form Frieza, putting them below namek Goku. And that is them after their time chamber training.
I would say before their training in base they would probably be elite Frieza soldier level. Maybe Ginyu force level at the most. After their training their bases were probably comparable to first form Frieza. And in ssj they would be somewhere on the tier of final form Frieza. Which should definitely be enough to scare 18.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Also if you go off of Yo son Goku and his friends return, base Goten and Trunks are about equal with fighters who should be comparable to first form Frieza, putting them below namek Goku. And that is them after their time chamber training.
I would say before their training in base they would probably be elite Frieza soldier level. Maybe Ginyu force level at the most. After their training their bases were probably comparable to first form Frieza. And in ssj they would be somewhere on the tier of final form Frieza. Which should definitely be enough to scare 18.

If someone like Zarbon tried to fight 18 he'd be killed by being on her presence. Trunks managed to give 18 some trouble despite being in a clown suit and with Goten slowing him down, and their suppressed blast as SSjins outright scared 18. Goten also made Gohan use all of his effort to defend himself of his hits and even made him fly to defend himself, and Trunks managed to give Vegeta a hard time dodging his punches, something 100% Freeza couldn't even dream. If the Kids were in fact weaker than Freeza Piccolo would have laughed at their power, instead he was shacking and called them earth's final hope before fusion was known.
Toei isn't a really reliable source to the kids power. Damn, they got smacked around as SSjins by the same Broly who went toe to toe with Base Gohan in M10 and needed to fuse to defeat the Nazis in M12, something Goku could do after training with Roshi.

[Berserker1921]

Hitpo (Hit/ Toppo fusion) vs Vegito Blue (ToP)?
Buu (Omega Shenron, Super 17, and Great Ape Bebi) vs PG. Frieza (ToP)? -No absorbing
Silver Frost (ToP) vs Goku (RoF)?
Buuhan vs Copy Vegeta (Base only) vs Maji (blue metal man)?
-no absorbing or replacing.

[dragon boss z]

If someone like Zarbon tried to fight 18 he'd be killed by being on her presence.

If she can hold back enough to hit regular people without killing them, she can easily do the same with Zarbon. She had trouble with someone Krillin was able to fight in the ToP, and Krillin is nowhere near her level.
And lets not bring up Shisami vs Piccolo, because I'm sure we would like to forget that.

Trunks managed to give 18 some trouble despite being in a clown suit and with Goten slowing him down, and their suppressed blast as SSjins outright scared 18.

She had no trouble at all with them and thought they were just strong regular humans until they went ssj. And their suppressed blast shocked her, not scared her. There is no indication she was scared for her personal safety.

Goten also made Gohan use all of his effort to defend himself of his hits and even made him fly to defend himself, and Trunks managed to give Vegeta a hard time dodging his punches, something 100% Freeza couldn't even dream.

Neither Gohan was extremely rusty, and Vegeta was tired and didn't expect Trunks to be that strong, and neither were serious.

If the Kids were in fact weaker than Freeza Piccolo would have laughed at their power, instead he was shacking and called them earth's final hope before fusion was known.

That makes no sense at all. Frieza isn't weak, and for two kids under 10 to be near his strength with next to no training is already crazy. Piccolo was banking on their latent potential, not their current power. Frieza was able to reach god tier in 4 months of training, so if two kids with basically no training as well trained like that, they should also get similar gains. So it was more of a, look how strong they are now, so they will be crazy strong with training plus fussion, and not, wow they are already stronger than almost everyone by themselves already, as more current info implies. I will agree at first it seemed like they could be above Frieza or 18, but not it doesn't seem that way.

Toei isn't a really reliable source to the kids power. Damn, they got smacked around as SSjins by the same Broly who went toe to toe with Base Gohan in M10 and needed to fuse to defeat the Nazis in M12, something Goku could do after training with Roshi.

True.

[dragon boss z]

We also don't have to rely that much on Super when it comes to Goten and Trunks. They are sort of treated badly in there when it comes to their strenght (even when they can't go to the ROF battle field, unlike Roshi, Krillin and Tien, who should logically be weaker than them). Bulma isn't reliable when it comes to powers. She obviously wouldn't know how strong Trunks is, and considering that Trunks is a kid, which for both Bulma and Jaco, it would be unlikely for an inexperienced kid to defeat Frieza.

Super did nerf them really hard.

Let's not forget that Piccolo was totally amazed by their power, even after he said they were "Earth's only hope" (unlike Goku, who was seeing them without any sort of amusement). That would mean that the kids can potentially be above Piccolo, or below, at least close to his power. I put Trunks on the same level his future counterpart had during the Cell Games, while Goten would be around 50% Cell Games Goku strenght.

This imo is Piccolo putting hope in their potential. Logically if they are Frieza tier without much training, then if they train like Frieza did they should get similar gains.

[Polyphase Avatron]

Which Gods of Destruction do you think Jiren could beat, and which ones could beat him?

[dragonball0900]

This imo is Piccolo putting hope in their potential. Logically if they are Frieza tier without much training, then if they train like Frieza did they should get similar gains.

When the kids transformed into SSJ in Kami's lookout in front of Goku and Piccolo, Goku was not impressed at all, while Piccolo was there in amazement about their power, and that's before they do any kind of special training to defeat Buu. That certainly means that the kids are not that far from Piccolo's strenght. Goku not being impressed is because of him being much stronger than Piccolo, therefore he would obviously not be amazed by Goten and Trunks' power.

Trunks' being unable to move because of the gravity doesn't mean anything. That would mean that Trunks is around Goku's strenght from the Ginyu arc (90,000). That is impossible, because that would mean he has to be weaker than Krillin, who should be way higher than 75,000 by this time, but the base kids are stated to be stronger than any of the earthlings during the Buu arc.

And about Android 18's fight, if the kids were indeed weaker than her, then why 18 decided to end the fight with splitting Mighty Mask in half as last resource? It doesn't make sense, she would have decided to fight Goten and Trunks still if she was stronger than them. And the fact that SSJ Trunks was suppressed, nearly nothing of his power being used, when throwing that ki blast, and it still scared Android 18, it implies that the kids are way stronger than you think.