GodVegetto91 wrote:
Actually i can, i would just have to click on the "show" button.
Goku losing now simply makes no sense at all considering all the buildup and the fact that he's getting a new transformation. It would be bad writing.
You must have hated Battle of Gods.
On the contrary, i LOVED that movie. But this is different. Goku lost after a battle well thought against the God of Destruction himself. Here, it's a tournament where everything is on the line and he absolutely cannot afford to lose. Especially not in the same episode he achieves his new form. (I.e. So soon). This battle specifically is being hyped up for months.
I'm sorry the promotional material has misguided your expectations. The battle between Jiren and Goku is sure to be spectacular, but the writers don't owe you or me anything in terms of the outcome. I don't care who wins between the two. Goku still ends up training Uub eventually, so this whole affair is just for spectacle. Try to enjoy it.
Lord Beerus wrote:As Duo pointed out, Goku losing against the central antagonist is something Toriyama has penchant for doing and I wouldn't be suprised if that happened in the Universal Survival arc. Goku getting new form doesn't mean shit. Goku got a cool looking exclusive transformation in the Majin Boo arc, in the form of SSJ3, but it was worthless in the grand scheme of the narrative as he couldn't defeat Majin Boo with it. Same thing happening in Battle Of Gods. Goku became a Super Saiyan God and he still lost to Beerus. And Beerus wasn't even using all of his strength in the battle.
Lord Beerus wrote:As Duo pointed out, Goku losing against the central antagonist is something Toriyama has a penchant for doing and I wouldn't be suprised if that happened in the Universal Survival arc. Goku getting new form doesn't mean shit. Goku got a cool looking exclusive transformation in the Majin Boo arc, in the form of SSJ3, but it was worthless in the grand scheme of the narrative as he couldn't defeat Majin Boo with it. Same thing happened in Battle Of Gods. Goku became a Super Saiyan God and he still lost to Beerus. And Beerus wasn't even using all of his strength in the battle.
All of this, as well.
It isn't just Toriyama that likes giving out new forms that amount to nothing. After I made my original comment, it sprung to my mind that Toei also like giving the Saiyan cast (Goku, Vegeta Future Trunks) flashy new forms that don't amount to much. SSJ4 had a shit track record in battle in GT as it only killed Baby and Ice Shenron but couldn't get the job done against Super 17 or Omega Shenron, Goku's false/pseudo SSJ form in DBZ Movie 4 couldn't defeat Lord Slug and Future Trunks mysterious rage based Super Sayain form amounted to nothing as Zamasu still killed nearly everyone.
Last edited by Lord Beerus on Sat Sep 30, 2017 11:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
Lord Beerus wrote:As Duo pointed out, Goku losing against the central antagonist is something Toriyama has a penchant for doing and I wouldn't be suprised if that happened in the Universal Survival arc. Goku getting new form doesn't mean shit. Goku got a cool looking exclusive transformation in the Majin Boo arc, in the form of SSJ3, but it was worthless in the grand scheme of the narrative as he couldn't defeat Majin Boo with it. Same thing happened in Battle Of Gods. Goku became a Super Saiyan God and he still lost to Beerus. And Beerus wasn't even using all of his strength in the battle.
All of this, as well.
It isn't just Toriyama that like giving out new forms that amount to nothing. After I made my original comment, it sprung to my mind that Toei also like giving the Saiyan cast (Goku, Vegeta Future Trunks) flashy new forms that don't amount to much. SSJ4 had a shit track record in battle in GT as it only killed Baby and Ice Shenron but couldn't get the job done against Super 17 or Omega Shenron, Goku's false/pseudo SSJ form in the DBZ Movie 4 couldn't defeat Lord Slug and Future Trunks mysterious rage based Super Sayain form amounted to nothing as Zamasu still killed nearly everyone.
Oh, this is good stuff, right here. Can we toss in the fact that Blue premiered by having Goku get shot from behind, with Vegeta getting unexpectedly blown up along with the Earth shortly thereafter?
1. We don't know if Goku's even losing. The battle may be interrupted.
2. Even if he loses, it doesn't mean he's getting eliminated.
3. Even if he gets eliminated, it doesn't mean he even turned into his new form. We're all expecting him to transform during the tournament, but he can do it at the end.
It isn't just Toriyama that likes giving out new forms that amount to nothing. After I made my original comment, it sprung to my mind that Toei also like giving the Saiyan cast (Goku, Vegeta Future Trunks) flashy new forms that don't amount to much. SSJ4 had a shit track record in battle in GT as it only killed Baby and Ice Shenron but couldn't get the job done against Super 17 or Omega Shenron, Goku's false/pseudo SSJ form in DBZ Movie 4 couldn't defeat Lord Slug and Future Trunks mysterious rage based Super Sayain form amounted to nothing as Zamasu still killed nearly everyone.
Oh, this is good stuff, right here. Can we toss in the fact that Blue premiered by having Goku get shot from behind, with Vegeta getting unexpectedly blown up along with the Earth shortly thereafter?
Oh, yes. For sure. In fact, Super Saiyan Blue has been rag-dolled in Super in both mediums. But much more-so in the anime.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
Doctor. wrote:1. We don't know if Goku's even losing. The battle may be interrupted.
2. Even if he loses, it doesn't mean he's getting eliminated.
3. Even if he gets eliminated, it doesn't mean he even turned into his new form. We're all expecting him to transform during the tournament, but he can do it at the end.
Agreed, agreed, and also agreed.
But wait, aren't we supposed to speculate everything to death months before proper context is even remotely present?
It's not that i have a problem with Goku "losing" as much as i have with him losing SO SOON. I don't mind if Jiren wins in the end, however, i DO want a good and long fight. I don't want this battle to end as soon as Goku JUST achieves this new form. I hope you guys can understand that. I want them to battle at least for several episodes straight before something happens.
Can we PLEASE for the love of god stop with these clickbait threads. Ffs.
PMD wrote:Why wasting time in a topic complaining about something we actually don't know for certain? You did the same thing with the Jiren topic. I don't see the point of it.
I completely agree. The OP has made several separate threads on things that are obviously going to be explained/shown the special, I get "speculation" but for things that obviously we need to watch the episode for we don't need threads like this the main thread will do, it's needlessly clogging the sub forum.
Seriously admins can we lock the sub forum again? Seems we're getting more pointless and clickbaity threads then things that actually deserve one.
Ilikepictures-meh wrote:Goku losing and getting eliminated in the special would be far more interesting and exciting for us to see how the rest of the ToP will turn out. So your complaint makes little sense to me. Besides until it happens, I don't believe Goku is actually going to get eliminated during the special.
No disrespect but speak for yourself please. I don't really want to see Goku eliminated in 110.
Well good for you, he's likely not going to get eliminated. So no need to whine about something that has little chance of actually happening
GodVegetto91 wrote:It's not that i have a problem with Goku "losing" as much as i have with him losing SO SOON. I don't mind if Jiren wins in the end, however, i DO want a good and long fight. I don't want this battle to end as soon as Goku JUST achieves this new form. I hope you guys can understand that. I want them to battle at least for several episodes straight before something happens.
Unfortunately for some, where in an era where they don't need to stretch out battles anymore, so unless the fight has layers to it, like say, Goku, Krillin, and Gohan vs Vegeta in the Saiyan saga, then the fight doesn't really need to stretch out over several episodes. It just has to be good. I mean, If this was the final fight in the arc I could see making it a couple episodes in length but from what we know that doesn't seem to be the case.
Best case scenario for those who don't want Goku to lose so soon, maybe Goku doesn't get eliminated and he only needs time to recharge his batteries for Round 2.
GodVegetto91 wrote:It's not that i have a problem with Goku "losing" as much as i have with him losing SO SOON. I don't mind if Jiren wins in the end, however, i DO want a good and long fight. I don't want this battle to end as soon as Goku JUST achieves this new form. I hope you guys can understand that. I want them to battle at least for several episodes straight before something happens.
Unfortunately for some, where in an era where they don't need to stretch out battles anymore, so unless the fight has layers to it, like say, Goku, Krillin, and Gohan vs Vegeta in the Saiyan saga, then the fight doesn't really need to stretch out over several episodes. It just has to be good. I mean, If this was the final fight in the arc I could see making it a couple episodes in length but from what we know that doesn't seem to be the case.
Best case scenario for those who don't want Goku to lose so soon, maybe Goku doesn't get eliminated and he only needs time to recharge his batteries for Round 2.
I want Goku to have a decent amount of time to showcase his newfound power for us before he goes out. Only then can we be satisfied. Is that too much to ask?
After a long and hard fight between Jiren and Son Goku in his new form, Jiren would manage it with big effort to drop Goku out of the arena, but was weakened so much in the fight that the remaining Universe 7 Fighters can handle him together and finaly defeat him after another hard fight. That way Son Gokus new form would not be that worthless, since it would have contributed to Jirens defeat by weakening him.
Baggie_Saiyan wrote:Can we PLEASE for the love of god stop with these clickbait threads. Ffs.
PMD wrote:Why wasting time in a topic complaining about something we actually don't know for certain? You did the same thing with the Jiren topic. I don't see the point of it.
I completely agree. The OP has made several separate threads on things that are obviously going to be explained/shown the special, I get "speculation" but for things that obviously we need to watch the episode for we don't need threads like this the main thread will do, it's needlessly clogging the sub forum.
Seriously admins can we lock the sub forum again? Seems we're getting more pointless and clickbaity threads then things that actually deserve one.
Dude.. I take offense at this. There's absolutely no need for you to attack me like this. I'm just another dragon ball fan posting his thoughts and opinions about this series. And i'm allowed to express my feelings on this subject. Yes. This is still speculation ofcourse, and we don't know what will happen. But i am merely discussing a what-if scenario at this point. If you don't like it, move on. That's what i always do. You don't HAVE to participate in this thread.
You're assuming Jerin won't have one foot in the grave once the fight is over. We really should just wait for the episodes to air before jumping to conclusions like this.
In the Saiyan arc Vegeta broke every bone in Goku's body but by the end of the fight he couldn't even stand up so the same thing could happen here as well.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.
Ilikepictures-meh wrote:Goku losing and getting eliminated in the special would be far more interesting and exciting for us to see how the rest of the ToP will turn out. So your complaint makes little sense to me. Besides until it happens, I don't believe Goku is actually going to get eliminated during the special.
No disrespect but speak for yourself please. I don't really want to see Goku eliminated in 110.
Well good for you, he's likely not going to get eliminated. So no need to whine about something that has little chance of actually happening
I think Gokus new form is will do serious damage to Jiren to the point that characters like hit and Vegeta can now fight him on an even level, even if it mean Goku loses he still looks like like the hero while also creating tension.
Lionel wrote:I'm not going to begrudge the animation studio for shifting things into an unexpected direction. Goku has been the predictable paragon of strength and efficiency for every arc since the beginning of DB. To see that normality being challenged with Goku's new form failing to achieve the desired result would be refreshing for a change. True, we've seen something like this already occur in the Buu arc, but that arc is muddied with so many dead end concepts that it's becoming a negative thematical shortcoming of the arc which Super Saiyan 3 happens to fit into quite well.
I don't think the Tournament of Power has quite reached that level, at least when it comes to main character.
They basically did this with Super Saiyan 3 and Super Saiyan God. So this isn't exactly new.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.
Lord Beerus wrote:As Duo pointed out, Goku losing against the central antagonist is something Toriyama has a penchant for doing and I wouldn't be suprised if that happened in the Universal Survival arc. Goku getting new form doesn't mean shit. Goku got a cool looking exclusive transformation in the Majin Boo arc, in the form of SSJ3, but it was worthless in the grand scheme of the narrative as he couldn't defeat Majin Boo with it. Same thing happened in Battle Of Gods. Goku became a Super Saiyan God and he still lost to Beerus. And Beerus wasn't even using all of his strength in the battle.
EDIT: Toei also like giving the Saiyan cast (Goku, Vegeta Future Trunks) flashy new forms that don't amount to much. SSJ4 has a shit track record in battle as it only killed Baby and Ice Shenron but couldn't get the job done against Super 17 or Omega Shenron, Goku's false/pseudo SSJ form in the DBZ Movie 4 couldn't defeat Lord Slug and Future Trunks mysterious rage based Super Sayain form amounted to nothing as Zamasu still killed nearly everyone.
Actually he could, he just didn't. Also Toei isn't making his form unlike with Super Saiyan Rage. Toriyama is so what Super Saiyan 4 did or didn't do really doesn't matter.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.
So all the BUILDUP about how this tournament is about working together and not just overpowering the opponent goes out the door as Goku proceeds to crush Jiren with overwhelming power rendering his entire team useless as the only time they did anything was when Goku was sandbagging? From a thematic perspective it makes more sense for Goku to lose, the rest of the team to have the shit just got real moment, for Goku to learn something, and for the rest to not rely on him so much. I genuinely think that if Goku wins, we'll be looking at GT mark 2, with everyone useless and just praying for Goku to arrive and save them every time like with that Super Android 17 fight.
I think people are really setting themselves up for disappointment if they honestly think Goku's getting eliminated in this special. I just cannot see that ever happening. They aren't gonna toss out there golden boy after all of this build up like you said. Asinine speculation.
I think it's likely that he loses this "first round" of their fight, but I'm betting he'll be back later on either with a plan or with help.
I also can't relate to anyone that WANTS Goku to get eliminated. When did it become cool to root against the main character in this fandom? I've seen it a lot lately and it honestly puzzles me. If Goku get's eliminated this early, my interest in this arc will immediately tank to absolute 0.
