DBS is awful

[Hawk9211]

I have placed super the lowest out of all series,but it is good enough at least for me.It's tone is mixture of og db and dbz and world building is better.

[Esfír Dedragón]

As soon as I began to learn about Dragon Ball within the context of a Japanese product toward a Japanese audience, I realized that my constant irritation with the show is that I expected way too much from it.

I was expecting ideas, themes, and characters that Toriyama would have never done, even if he tried. A sort of non-Dragon Ball Dragon Ball. :/

Maybe Toei would have done slightly better but even I wouldn't trust them completely to shell out a decent story in this day and age.

Even as a "children's show", most episodes end up making me feel that the writers think their audience are a bunch of developmentally-challenged idiots who need be spoon-fed information with obnoxious animation (I hate the chibi animations when they explain Goku Black & Zamasu, the cubic space during the U6 fight, and the rules of the Tournament of Power). Not even the original Dragon Ball anime did that!

[Kinokima]

Sooo... filler aside, does anyone out there actually enjoy Super more than DBZ? I'm genuinely curious.

There are things I like more about DBZ and things I like more about Super. I wouldn't consider either one of my absolute favorite anime series but I am terribly fond of both.

As for Dragonball I think it's objectively a good show and it has a lot of great moments but I am more attached to the characters of Z so it's not a personal favorite of mine.

GT is the only DB series that I personally just didn't care for at all

[Timetraveller]

It's not all bad but it feels like a neverending commercial for toys aimed at kids. A lot of the designs are just recolors that allow them to sell the same toy but change the colors which to me is just lazy. The plot is shallow and relies too much on fan service and nostalgia. Maybe it's because Toriyama's lost his touch and Toei don't have much to work with or maybe it's entirely aimed at kids in Japan and this is what they dig nowadays. It seems to be doing well over there.

The only arc that was worth watching to me was the Future Trunks arc but even that arc did a lot of things that annoyed me. Small details like changing future Trunks' hair color for no reason at all while keeping the current Trunks hair the same.

I still watch it because of nostalgia but man do I feel they could have done so much more with it.

[Torturephile]

Sooo... filler aside, does anyone out there actually enjoy Super more than DBZ? I'm genuinely curious.

I've seen some stating that Z felt like a staring contest and dragged everything out. All the replies they got were people warning them about the incoming sandstorm of "nostalfags."

[sangofe]

Sooo... filler aside, does anyone out there actually enjoy Super more than DBZ? I'm genuinely curious.

There are things I like more about DBZ and things I like more about Super. I wouldn't consider either one of my absolute favorite anime series but I am terribly fond of both.

As for Dragonball I think it's objectively a good show and it has a lot of great moments but I am more attached to the characters of Z so it's not a personal favorite of mine.

GT is the only DB series that I personally just didn't care for at all

The main difference about the two shows is that dbz felt a lot more dramatic because of the build up and music. I felt we had that in the Black (Trunks) arc but it's been totally not present in the tournament of power arc. The manga is better at this in a way, I feel. Also, the filter they started using... When I go back to the Trunks saga I sigh and ask what they hell they were thinking.

[Super Saiyan Swagger]

What kind of discussion are you trying to make here? Because judging by the first post, it looks like you're just trying to grab as much attention as possible towards your angry feelings towards the show and you want people to support your views.

It is far and away from being an awful show. If you were saying this back in 2015 then I could see where you're coming from. But now? Hell no. There doesn't seem to be any pleasing for you when it comes to DBS so I suggest you just drop the show altogether. It'll save you some complaining and it'll relieve some of us from unnecessary threads such as this.

[Torturephile]

This thread is as awful as how you see Super. Since you created it, you should have at least bothered to provide us concrete and well-explained reasons of why you believe Super is the anti-Christ of the animation industry on the first post, not an extended version of your usual "Super sucks" tantrums, we have YouTube for that.

The Mikado did a better job at it.

[Nickolaidas]

The OP made me smile, mainly because I could name 50 things I didn't like in Z, while only 10 I don't like in Super.

I believe that Super is a superior show. It seems to have less annoying filler in my eyes (no episodes which mainly show a character powering up), forgotten characters which I personally liked are relevant again (Frieza, Krillin, Roshi), it is in high definition (yes, that's a plus for me), it has a more up-to-date soundtrack without a lot of trompet and rattle sounds (I mean, what was the fuck with that?!), expanded the lore (dimensions, universes and *true* D&D-immortal-level NPCs) and made me invested in the show once more. I'm literally waiting to see what's going to happen next, something I had to feel since watching the Daimao Saga 22 years ago.

It has its faults (pacing, heavily-arbitrary writing, less impactful antagonists to name a couple) but I consider it a lot better than Z.

All of the above is my opinion, always.

[Saikyo no Senshi]

I agree with the sentiment, but not with the tone. There are better ways to criticize. Anyways, my two cents on the topic.

DBS' biggest problem is its over reliance on nostalgia. It doesn't try to think out of the box and anyone who says merchandise driven series can't do that are wrong. Pocket Monsters: Sun and Moon is one example. It is doing it and it is doing great. The aesthetic is so different from any previous series and as a result it is easily the strongest PM has ever been. Narrative wise, Boruto comes to mind. It isn't afraid of making significant changes to the core cast and I appreciate it for its approach. There are many more examples, but my point has been made. DBS doesn't do it. Nothing at all. It can't be bothered to make changes to its visuals because the producers fear for I don't know what. It can't be bothered to make changes to the cast and it sure as hell can't be bothered to make its main cast anything more than nostalgia attraction dolls. That's exactly what Gokuu is in DBS. He is an iconic shounen hero symbol who was every kid's childhood hero back in the days and now he's back to do typical Gokuu-esque stuff ala cool shit without any thought put into developing the character. That's not what a main character should be. Every character more or less has taken a hit cause of this approach. None of it feels natural. Add to that returning characters and callbacks and whatnot in every fucking story arc so far, it just further proves my point about its safe approach. It would've been fine if it was once or twice, but hell they've made it a trend and a trend that just won't stop.

Taking the show into isolation, its first problem and kind of what makes the whole thing bad. Poor planning and management. The show is poorly produced and managed. This shouldn't even be a debate. It took 77 eps for the show to reach an acceptable level of polish and visual consistency. It screwed over two of Toei's finest directors. Fuck that. It didn't and I will argue it still doesn't let good staff perform to the best of their abilities. It doesn't attract great staff cause of its poor designs. The show only looks good when it is off-model which is a shame. Toriyama's involvement is also a mess. What he has written and what he hasn't is a debate that'll keep going on forever and personally Toriyama's vague-esque involvement and him being no longer an entertaining artist as he once was is huge part of DBS' writing problems. The comedic elements of the show are pure crap. Same overused food gags(which thankfully have been gone for a while) and terrible out of place jokes that hurt the characters. The sound design is bullocks. Technically strong animated fight scenes lose half their impact and and it kind of pisses me off when fans blame the animators for this where they should be blaming the sound. The music has one or two good moments, but it is unfitting overall and simply unmemorable. For me, the series' identity matters most and the music should reflect that. DBS' OST doesn't. Dragon Ball is set in a world with distinct features and its origins is Chinese/Japanese inspired ala wuxia which the music during its original run captured perfectly. DBS goes for that modern approach and kills that world. It all started with Kai, so I can't blame DBS alone, so whatever. Lack of insert songs is another big problem.

In conclusion, DBS is bad cause it is uninspired, lacks creativity, restricts good staff and is fundamentally broken on a production level. Is everyone involved lazy? Absolutely not. Everyone on the series is working extremely hard and to an extent are fixing some of the basic issues and I respect that, but at the end of the day the end result is what matters to me as a fan and I am not pleased.

PS: Everything I said besides the production issues is my subjective opinion. I don't understand what objectivity is. Oh, and Yukana is an awesome actor.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

What kind of discussion are you trying to make here? Because judging by the first post, it looks like you're just trying to grab as much attention as possible towards your angry feelings towards the show and you want people to support your views.

It is far and away from being an awful show. If you were saying this back in 2015 then I could see where you're coming from. But now? Hell no. There doesn't seem to be any pleasing for you when it comes to DBS so I suggest you just drop the show altogether. It'll save you some complaining and it'll relieve some of us from unnecessary threads such as this.

But that's exactly what these people want! They want to complain about DBS they want to get the attention, they can't comprehend why others like it so we constantly have to have threads like this.

Logically you'd think people would stay away from something they don't like let alone further discuss it on something as a forum. So therefore they obviously deep down love the show and are just putting on a façade because hating on DBS is "hip and cool" and makes them seem more of a "hardcore DBZZZZZZZZZZ fan".

[PsionicWarrior]

OP is nothing but a flaming bait.

[Cipher]

Dragon Ball Super is a pretty poor show on the whole, which is disappointing, since its best moments are quite good and really capture what's so special about Dragon Ball in the first place.

I also think, conceptually, outside of the show's greatest drawback that it's positioned as a midquel, most of the story lines have very serviceable ideas as well, and come across quite well in Toyotaro's manga and might be something special under Toriyama's pen, either as Resurrection "F" sequels or in manga form.

But so much of that is buried under poor weekly execution--dull story boarding and obvious and inconsistent character-writing being the two biggest issues. It doesn't matter what the narrative points are, how arcs begin or end, etc., when it fails to function on that level. When Dragon Ball, a series that largely runs on its style and charm, can't consistently present either style or charm, what's it doing? (It's also largely, I think, about how sincerely it treats its world and characters, which has likewise been missing with Super's haphazard weekly scripting.)

So I largely find myself agreeing with people who say Super's not a very good series, but almost always for wholly different reasons than tend to come up in these threads. It's my least favorite of the four original anime series, but it didn't have to be.

If the post-"F" arcs were ever to get a revisit as movies or specials more in line with Toyotaro's brisk manga, or--perfect scenario--with more Toriyama scripts, I wouldn't object.

[Timetraveller]

What kind of discussion are you trying to make here? Because judging by the first post, it looks like you're just trying to grab as much attention as possible towards your angry feelings towards the show and you want people to support your views.

It is far and away from being an awful show. If you were saying this back in 2015 then I could see where you're coming from. But now? Hell no. There doesn't seem to be any pleasing for you when it comes to DBS so I suggest you just drop the show altogether. It'll save you some complaining and it'll relieve some of us from unnecessary threads such as this.

But that's exactly what these people want! They want to complain about DBS they want to get the attention, they can't comprehend why others like it so we constantly have to have threads like this.

Logically you'd think people would stay away from something they don't like let alone further discuss it on something as a forum. So therefore they obviously deep down love the show and are just putting on a façade because hating on DBS is "hip and cool" and makes them seem more of a "hardcore DBZZZZZZZZZZ fan".

Yeah, how dare these people criticize the show? Forums are only meant for praising and worshipping things, especially when it's about a kid's shows. /s

We all know the reason we're here. Because we were all huge fans of DBZ as kids (or whenever you watched it) and have a huge attachment to the franchise so naturally, when DBS came along we all watched it to see how it was. We all want to see how the show ends which is why we'll keep watching it regardless of how good or bad it is. If this was a new show that no one had heard about, no one would have stuck around after something like episode 5.

[PsionicWarrior]

Dragon Ball Super is a pretty poor show on the whole, which is disappointing, since its best moments are quite good and really capture what's so special about Dragon Ball in the first place.

Pretty much this. All it needs is more of these moments that really does the show justice IMO, sure I am not that much into the ToP arc but just for Roshi to have gained respect from BOTH Beerus and Vegeta, for his team up with Vegeta, only for this I don't regret a second of watching it and bearing through the more awkward moments.

Truth is, the show will never be perfect and it's impossible to satisfy everyone, but when it delivers it enters the franchise's history in fantastic fashion right there so take your pic.

[BWri]

Because as of right now, the only thing this show has going for it are the fights (which aren’t that good), the characters ( because of the allure they hold because of the past series; not Super since there written like shit majority of the time)

There were a lot of interesting observations in your post, but I'll respond to the one I'm most interested in. To start, I can feel the scathing anger and the pure annoyance of a series fan while reading this. A fan trying to come to terms with what Dragon Ball has now become. Just know, bud, I feel your pain and we're not alone in feeling this way, clearly. Because I am such a lifelong DB fan, I've had to lower my standards considerably to get some level of enjoyment out of DBS.

With that out of the way, I think you struck something when you mentioned the characters as the thing Super gets right, particularly the established characters. I think the main problem with the show is that they don't focus on the show's greatest strength, it's rich cast of legacy characters. Think about it. The show's high points are always when they do great service to characters such as Roshi, Gohan, Frieza, #17, Krillin, #18 etc. For the longest period, the best eps. were the slice of life eps. which built on previously established characters by providing us a deeper look into their lives and more of a reason to care about them. And that's it! That's all we want. For these legacy characters to be treated with respect and used in a decent way and for new characters to be given a proper build up and connection to the story.

**just adding that, I lower my standards in order to lessen the annoyance I experience with the show in order to see those good moments that Super has. Super has incredible moments, but you often have to sit through a ton of nonsense before you get to them.

[PsionicWarrior]

the characters as the thing Super gets right, particularly the established characters.

Err I don't know which established characters you refer at but Goku was a total retard for like 80 eps and Vegeta had his good share of humiliation too lol

[Kogu 87]

Ah yes, its the weekly hate thread, 108 episodes in !

I'm loving DBS, and I personally hope it does not end any time soon.
The three original DBS arcs have been a treat. Definitely looking forward to whats to come.

[Kinokima]

What kind of discussion are you trying to make here? Because judging by the first post, it looks like you're just trying to grab as much attention as possible towards your angry feelings towards the show and you want people to support your views.

It is far and away from being an awful show. If you were saying this back in 2015 then I could see where you're coming from. But now? Hell no. There doesn't seem to be any pleasing for you when it comes to DBS so I suggest you just drop the show altogether. It'll save you some complaining and it'll relieve some of us from unnecessary threads such as this.

But that's exactly what these people want! They want to complain about DBS they want to get the attention, they can't comprehend why others like it so we constantly have to have threads like this.

Logically you'd think people would stay away from something they don't like let alone further discuss it on something as a forum. So therefore they obviously deep down love the show and are just putting on a façade because hating on DBS is "hip and cool" and makes them seem more of a "hardcore DBZZZZZZZZZZ fan".

Yeah, how dare these people criticize the show? Forums are only meant for praising and worshipping things, especially when it's about a kid's shows. /s

We all know the reason we're here. Because we were all huge fans of DBZ as kids (or whenever you watched it) and have a huge attachment to the franchise so naturally, when DBS came along we all watched it to see how it was. We all want to see how the show ends which is why we'll keep watching it regardless of how good or bad it is. If this was a new show that no one had heard about, no one would have stuck around after something like episode 5.

There is no way I'd sit and watch anything I hated even if it was for a franchise I really loved. Who knows how long Super is going to go on. You are really going to watch every episode even though you hate it because you are a Dragon Ball fan? Please do something better with your time and spare us the this show sucks threads and posts.

I don't even have time time to sit and watch everything I enjoy not sure why anyone would waste time on something they hate.


And people can take legitimate criticism whether they agree or not. But a thread saying this show completely sucks, it has nothing good about it; and its objectively bad because I say so is not a legitimate criticism. I have no respect for people who hate watch a show and then have to send a message to its fans about how much the show sucks like it's some gospel truth.

[Ripper 30]

I agree with the statement. uptill now there still hasn't been anything special about Super and the series has gone past 100 Episodes. It's all Nostalgia Fanservice garbage now and they are just calling characters back to the show only to make then useless later on .characters are back to their bitchy way specially Vegeta when he clearly admitted that Gokū is better than him in Z. Gokū's Dumb nature is way too over-Exxagerated and its stupid because they are ruining his Development which happened from pilaf arc to Boo arc. it's all way more repetitive than DBZ ever was. The New Forms in Super are so unoriginal and the design is lazy as fuck. It's literally recoloring of the hair that's it. Power Scaling has gone to shit. Gokū is the only one to save the day to the point that it has become so predictable and Boring now. They even had a Dragon Ball room so is that what they were planning their?
This franchise has literally became a toy selling franchise with no good story telling, even though Toyotaro is a good artist but still he isn't gonna save the show. Beerus and Whis once seemed intresting but now they are okayish.
They soundtrack improved in Zamasu Arc but in my opinion too modern for Dragon Ball. even in the current arc they are trying to imply that the stakes are high still it doesn't feel like that. It's an average at best show.
As far as Voice acting is concerned, it's one of the few good things about the show and the characters all have fitting voices and good Voice acting so no complaints from that department.