What's the point of all this hype and build up IF...

[TBMx]

If Goku loses so Gohan can be the hero than I'm all for it. I mean who else would win the tournament for U7? Freeza?

Vegeta -Sama. As he said he would.

But Frieza is a better choice over Goku.

I would actually put Goku as 2nd to last as who should win it all. The way he's been acting this arc... Goku hears countless trillions will be erased, his response is "I just have to win!" and then he just goes and does it. He wins. Good for him.

Funny, that was Vegeta reaction too.

No, Vegeta never chuckled about it. Never said it with a smile like it's a day at the beach and only said it in response to Goku saying he will win. When Vegeta stared at his family one last time before he left it's implied he's doing it for them. He's not after cheap thrills like Goku.

[Simere]

No, Vegeta never chuckled about it. Never said it with a smile like it's a day at the beach and only said it in response to Goku saying he will win. When Vegeta stared at his family one last time before he left it's implied he's doing it for them. He's not after cheap thrills like Goku.

He both chuckled and smiled.



Not to mention his talk about teaming up being boring and what not.

[Artorias]

Its more about liking the other cast member more than rooting against the main character. They feel if Goku is out of the picture then it sets up for someone else to be the "hero".

I get that, but I've just noticed a general trend lately of people borderline rooting against the main cast in general, and specifically Goku. Like, U7 losing is the LAST way I want this to end. I'm honestly sick of these "twist" endings where the heroes lose and then get bailed out by the gods or some third party. Let them WIN for once in this damn show. And I don't need Goku to deal the final blow or anything, but at least make him part of the climax. Having the main boi out this early would make the show feel really weird and...empty for me.

Apparently the boys over here on Kanzenshuu want our great hero to be eliminated, because according to them, it would make things "more interesting" even though the logic behind it doesn't make sense, not only that, but when has Goku ever won a battle fair and square? The only time he "won" was against Freeza back on Namek, yet technically, he wasn't the one who deal the finishing blow, it was Trunks. 2. He literally forfeited against Cell because he was too strong. And while he did kill of the evil majin boo, he couldn't win from him either in battle, and had to rely on the energy of others to win (AKA The Genki Dama). He straight out lost against Beerus, he forfeited against Hit, and lost several times against Black and Zamasu (whom he ultimately couldn't take down either, relying on the Omni-King to finish things off).

Going back to early dragon ball, out of the 3 world martial arts tournaments, he only won 1! While he lost the other two.

So Yes. You're right. It would be nice if Goku actually won for a change. It seems to be a common trend among the creators and writers of dragonball to have Goku lose all the time.

Exactly. I don't know WHY the fandom constantly insists that he wins all the time...Like what show are they watching? He loses ALL THE DAMN TIME, to the point where he literally hasn't won ONE major fight in this show. I just don't understand the different realities people are living in.

[HeroR]

No, Vegeta never chuckled about it. Never said it with a smile like it's a day at the beach and only said it in response to Goku saying he will win. When Vegeta stared at his family one last time before he left it's implied he's doing it for them. He's not after cheap thrills like Goku.

He both chuckled and smiled.



Not to mention his talk about teaming up being boring and what not.

Seriously, why do Vegeta fans have select memory about how he acted in this arc? While Goku is more cheerful, Vegeta isn't exactly being serious either and wants to solo everything.

[TBMx]

No, Vegeta never chuckled about it. Never said it with a smile like it's a day at the beach and only said it in response to Goku saying he will win. When Vegeta stared at his family one last time before he left it's implied he's doing it for them. He's not after cheap thrills like Goku.

He both chuckled and smiled.



Not to mention his talk about teaming up being boring and what not.

Seriously, why do Vegeta fans have select memory about how he acted in this arc? While Goku is more cheerful, Vegeta isn't exactly being serious either and wants to solo everything.

He wasn't smiling at being told universes will be erased. And the smile from that image wasn't cheerful. I said he didn't smile like it's a day at the beach.
Vegeta's reaction to hearing that was offscreen because they barely give screentime to anybody but Goku. He smiled at Goku's egotistical statement that he will be the last man standing. Goku is the one who wants to solo everything. The only teamwork he's done is to jump into other's fights without provocation and without asking and treating the entire tournament like a joke by helping other universes. He's helped other universes more than his own.

[HeroR]

He both chuckled and smiled.



Not to mention his talk about teaming up being boring and what not.

Seriously, why do Vegeta fans have select memory about how he acted in this arc? While Goku is more cheerful, Vegeta isn't exactly being serious either and wants to solo everything.

He wasn't smiling at being told universes will be erased. And the smile from that image wasn't cheerful. I said he didn't smile like it's a day at the beach.
Vegeta's reaction to hearing that was offscreen because they barely give screentime to anybody but Goku. He smiled at Goku's egotistical statement that he will be the last man standing. Goku is the one who wants to solo everything. The only teamwork he's done is to jump into other's fights without provocation and without asking and treating the entire tournament like a joke by helping other universes.

He was smiling 'after' an universe got erased and said he would be on top, which is no different than what Goku did. And what different does it makes that he 'he didn't smile like it's a day at the beach'? Is there some new level of smiling that we have to look up?

Vegeta literally said he didn't want team work and he will do everything himself. He was also more than willing to go with nine people after losing Buu since, 'you have me, we don't need ten people'.

[Lord Beerus]

I get that, but I've just noticed a general trend lately of people borderline rooting against the main cast in general, and specifically Goku. Like, U7 losing is the LAST way I want this to end. I'm honestly sick of these "twist" endings where the heroes lose and then get bailed out by the gods or some third party. Let them WIN for once in this damn show. And I don't need Goku to deal the final blow or anything, but at least make him part of the climax. Having the main boi out this early would make the show feel really weird and...empty for me.

Apparently the boys over here on Kanzenshuu want our great hero to be eliminated, because according to them, it would make things "more interesting" even though the logic behind it doesn't make sense, not only that, but when has Goku ever won a battle fair and square? The only time he "won" was against Freeza back on Namek, yet technically, he wasn't the one who deal the finishing blow, it was Trunks. 2. He literally forfeited against Cell because he was too strong. And while he did kill of the evil majin boo, he couldn't win from him either in battle, and had to rely on the energy of others to win (AKA The Genki Dama). He straight out lost against Beerus, he forfeited against Hit, and lost several times against Black and Zamasu (whom he ultimately couldn't take down either, relying on the Omni-King to finish things off).

Going back to early dragon ball, out of the 3 world martial arts tournaments, he only won 1! While he lost the other two.

So Yes. You're right. It would be nice if Goku actually won for a change. It seems to be a common trend among the creators and writers of dragonball to have Goku lose all the time.

Exactly. I don't know WHY the fandom constantly insists that he wins all the time...Like what show are they watching? He loses ALL THE DAMN TIME, to the point where he literally hasn't won ONE major fight in this show. I just don't understand the different realities people are living in.

I've said this before, but I think the whole "Goku always saves the day" mentality stems from the movies and GT, where Toei were really played up the whole notion that Goku is only one to get the main glory.

When it comes to the original story (the manga) and Dragon Ball Super, but ironically especially more-so in Super, Goku's track record in the main conflicts is not good against the central antagonists:

In the original story
- Lost to Roshi in the final of 21st WMAT
- Lost to Tien in the final of 22nd WMAT
- Decimated 95% of the Red Ribbon Army
- Lost to King Piccolo
- Beat King Piccolo in the rematch
- Beat Piccolo Jr
- Got his ass handed to him by Raditz, and only won via assist. And even then Goku still died.
- Beat Nappa
- Lost to Vegeta
- Beat Recoome and Burter
- Lost to Ginyu
- Beat Freeza
- Lost to Android 19
- Forfeited against Cell
- Lost to Majin Boo

In Super:
- Lost to Beerus
- Lost to Freeza
- Beat Botamo
- Lost to Frost (although that lost was nullified as Frost was disqualified)
- Forfeited against Hit
- Beat Copy Vegeta
- Lost to Goku Black and/or Zamasu (So. Many. Times.)
- Fought Hit to a draw
- Beat Bergamo
- Fought Toppo to a draw

Goku loses a lost in Dragon Ball.

[Kinokima]

Seriously, why do Vegeta fans have select memory about how he acted in this arc? While Goku is more cheerful, Vegeta isn't exactly being serious either and wants to solo everything.

He wasn't smiling at being told universes will be erased. And the smile from that image wasn't cheerful. I said he didn't smile like it's a day at the beach.
Vegeta's reaction to hearing that was offscreen because they barely give screentime to anybody but Goku. He smiled at Goku's egotistical statement that he will be the last man standing. Goku is the one who wants to solo everything. The only teamwork he's done is to jump into other's fights without provocation and without asking and treating the entire tournament like a joke by helping other universes.

He was smiling 'after' an universe got erased and said he would be on top, which is no different than what Goku did. And what different does it makes that he 'he didn't smile like it's a day at the beach'? Is there some new level of smiling that we have to look up?

Vegeta literally said he didn't want team work and he will do everything himself. He was also more than willing to go with nine people after losing Buu since, 'you have me, we don't need ten people'.

To be fair though Vegeta has been shown that he is willing to help others (if not accept help himself yet). He jumped into help both Goku and Master Roshi. Yes I realize he said that wasn't what he was doing but it was pretty obvious he was.

Anyways I am not going to fault Goku OR Vegeta for wanting to win without teamwork. It's in both their natures. They prefer fighting alone unless it is absolutely necessary. Characters don't always have to think rationally or be perfect. In fact the different nature of the characters in Universe 7 and Dragon Ball in general is what makes their interactions so enjoyable. If they all stuck together as a team and truly worked together with strategy then things probably would be easier but that would also be boring for the audience. Conflict and when we don't know what the characters are going to do makes it more fun.

[Duo]

Can we PLEASE for the love of god stop with these clickbait threads. Ffs.

Why wasting time in a topic complaining about something we actually don't know for certain? You did the same thing with the Jiren topic. I don't see the point of it.

I completely agree. The OP has made several separate threads on things that are obviously going to be explained/shown the special, I get "speculation" but for things that obviously we need to watch the episode for we don't need threads like this the main thread will do, it's needlessly clogging the sub forum.

Seriously admins can we lock the sub forum again? Seems we're getting more pointless and clickbaity threads then things that actually deserve one.

Strongly agreed. The problem just keeps getting worse with this guy. Keeps firing out a strong, childish opinions with filler-esque walls of texts only to be offended by any type of difference in opinion. This really isn't the place for that sort of thing.

[TekTheNinja]

I don't give a fuck about Goku winning or losing.

Then I dont see why you needed to quote me here, I'm talking about people justifying Goku losing as something new or surprising.

Well the quote below says otherwise since it's more about the concept of Goku losing and staying gone. Even still though Goku still always gets the main fight. ( along with almost ALL the other fights)

Its sad to read people wanting Goku to lose over and over and over again, like give the guy a break, he has NOT won a single clean fight in Super against the main enemy, for some weird reason people feels like Goku losing is new when its the exact opposite, I am tired of watching the main character losing the big one all the damn time.

Him losing and actually being knocked out of the ring and staying out would be new as there are still many other fighters left.

[gohan_black]

Next time put a warning before you write spoilers

[The gr]

Once again the fandom is jumping to the gun again like with caulifla getting ssb,hit being one sidely beat up by dyspo and freeza backstabing u7 yet none of those events happened ,when will they learn

[Jigurashi]

Once again the fandom is jumping to the gun again like with caulifla getting ssb,hit being one sidely beat up by dyspo and freeza backstabing u7 yet none of those events happened ,when will they learn

The fanbase will never learn cause it's the DB fanbase. Personally, I don't want Goku going next but I'd be fine fine with it if the execution was done well.

As for Goku's attitude in the tournament, it's funny that some are trying to say Vegeta's attitude is any different when that's false. It goes back to this whole thing about this double standard with Goku and other characters. Goku will get shit for things that other characters get defended or praised from when they're really just as guilty as he is.

[Artorias]

Apparently the boys over here on Kanzenshuu want our great hero to be eliminated, because according to them, it would make things "more interesting" even though the logic behind it doesn't make sense, not only that, but when has Goku ever won a battle fair and square? The only time he "won" was against Freeza back on Namek, yet technically, he wasn't the one who deal the finishing blow, it was Trunks. 2. He literally forfeited against Cell because he was too strong. And while he did kill of the evil majin boo, he couldn't win from him either in battle, and had to rely on the energy of others to win (AKA The Genki Dama). He straight out lost against Beerus, he forfeited against Hit, and lost several times against Black and Zamasu (whom he ultimately couldn't take down either, relying on the Omni-King to finish things off).

Going back to early dragon ball, out of the 3 world martial arts tournaments, he only won 1! While he lost the other two.

So Yes. You're right. It would be nice if Goku actually won for a change. It seems to be a common trend among the creators and writers of dragonball to have Goku lose all the time.

Exactly. I don't know WHY the fandom constantly insists that he wins all the time...Like what show are they watching? He loses ALL THE DAMN TIME, to the point where he literally hasn't won ONE major fight in this show. I just don't understand the different realities people are living in.

I've said this before, but I think the whole "Goku always saves the day" mentality stems from the movies and GT, where Toei were really played up the whole notion that Goku is only one to get the main glory.

When it comes to the original story (the manga) and Dragon Ball Super, but ironically especially more-so in Super, Goku's track record in the main conflicts is not good against the central antagonists:

In the original story
- Lost to Roshi in the final of 21st WMAT
- Lost to Tien in the final of 22nd WMAT
- Decimated 95% of the Red Ribbon Army
- Lost to King Piccolo
- Beat King Piccolo in the rematch
- Beat Piccolo Jr
- Got his ass handed to him by Raditz, and only won via assist. And even then Goku still died.
- Beat Nappa
- Lost to Vegeta
- Beat Recoome and Burter
- Lost to Ginyu
- Beat Freeza
- Lost to Android 19
- Forfeited against Cell
- Lost to Majin Boo

In Super:
- Lost to Beerus
- Lost to Freeza
- Beat Botamo
- Lost to Frost (although that lost was nullified as Frost was disqualified)
- Forfeited against Hit
- Beat Copy Vegeta
- Lost to Goku Black and/or Zamasu (So. Many. Times.)
- Fought Hit to a draw
- Beat Bergamo
- Fought Toppo to a draw

Goku loses a lost in Dragon Ball.

This list needs to be shoved down the throats of anyone that perpetuates this false idea that Goku always saves the day. I'm too lazy to go and count, but I'd honestly wager that he's LOST damn near as many, if not MORE times than he's won. And I'd also wager his ratio is about the same as Vegeta's honestly, maybe a LITTLE better. But no, people will still continue that "Vegeta never wins" and that "Goku always wins".

[Simere]

Goku will get shit for things that other characters get defended or praised from when they're really just as guilty as he is.

TBMx said Goku was being egotistical for being resolute in winning, when Vegeta's reply had him referring to himself as -sama.

[RedHeat]

What's the point of life if you're a speed-reader?

[Lord Beerus]

Exactly. I don't know WHY the fandom constantly insists that he wins all the time...Like what show are they watching? He loses ALL THE DAMN TIME, to the point where he literally hasn't won ONE major fight in this show. I just don't understand the different realities people are living in.

I've said this before, but I think the whole "Goku always saves the day" mentality stems from the movies and GT, where Toei were really played up the whole notion that Goku is only one to get the main glory.

When it comes to the original story (the manga) and Dragon Ball Super, but ironically especially more-so in Super, Goku's track record in the main conflicts is not good against the central antagonists:

In the original story
- Lost to Roshi in the final of 21st WMAT
- Lost to Tien in the final of 22nd WMAT
- Decimated 95% of the Red Ribbon Army
- Lost to King Piccolo
- Beat King Piccolo in the rematch
- Beat Piccolo Jr
- Got his ass handed to him by Raditz, and only won via assist. And even then Goku still died.
- Beat Nappa
- Lost to Vegeta
- Beat Recoome and Burter
- Lost to Ginyu
- Beat Freeza
- Lost to Android 19
- Forfeited against Cell
- Lost to Majin Boo

In Super:
- Lost to Beerus
- Lost to Freeza
- Beat Botamo
- Lost to Frost (although that lost was nullified as Frost was disqualified)
- Forfeited against Hit
- Beat Copy Vegeta
- Lost to Goku Black and/or Zamasu (So. Many. Times.)
- Fought Hit to a draw
- Beat Bergamo
- Fought Toppo to a draw

Goku loses a lot in Dragon Ball.

This list needs to be shoved down the throats of anyone that perpetuates this false idea that Goku always saves the day. I'm too lazy to go and count, but I'd honestly wager that he's LOST damn near as many, if not MORE times than he's won. And I'd also wager his ratio is about the same as Vegeta's honestly, maybe a LITTLE better. But no, people will still continue that "Vegeta never wins" and that "Goku always wins".

For a main character in a shonen story, especially a battle shonen story, Goku has a terrible track record in combat.

[Jigurashi]

Goku will get shit for things that other characters get defended or praised from when they're really just as guilty as he is.

TBMx said Goku was being egotistical for being resolute in winning, when Vegeta's reply had him referring to himself as -sama.

But apparently Goku's the only egotistical one.

[Kinokima]

Exactly. I don't know WHY the fandom constantly insists that he wins all the time...Like what show are they watching? He loses ALL THE DAMN TIME, to the point where he literally hasn't won ONE major fight in this show. I just don't understand the different realities people are living in.

I've said this before, but I think the whole "Goku always saves the day" mentality stems from the movies and GT, where Toei were really played up the whole notion that Goku is only one to get the main glory.

When it comes to the original story (the manga) and Dragon Ball Super, but ironically especially more-so in Super, Goku's track record in the main conflicts is not good against the central antagonists:

In the original story
- Lost to Roshi in the final of 21st WMAT
- Lost to Tien in the final of 22nd WMAT
- Decimated 95% of the Red Ribbon Army
- Lost to King Piccolo
- Beat King Piccolo in the rematch
- Beat Piccolo Jr
- Got his ass handed to him by Raditz, and only won via assist. And even then Goku still died.
- Beat Nappa
- Lost to Vegeta
- Beat Recoome and Burter
- Lost to Ginyu
- Beat Freeza
- Lost to Android 19
- Forfeited against Cell
- Lost to Majin Boo

In Super:
- Lost to Beerus
- Lost to Freeza
- Beat Botamo
- Lost to Frost (although that lost was nullified as Frost was disqualified)
- Forfeited against Hit
- Beat Copy Vegeta
- Lost to Goku Black and/or Zamasu (So. Many. Times.)
- Fought Hit to a draw
- Beat Bergamo
- Fought Toppo to a draw

Goku loses a lost in Dragon Ball.

This list needs to be shoved down the throats of anyone that perpetuates this false idea that Goku always saves the day. I'm too lazy to go and count, but I'd honestly wager that he's LOST damn near as many, if not MORE times than he's won. And I'd also wager his ratio is about the same as Vegeta's honestly, maybe a LITTLE better. But no, people will still continue that "Vegeta never wins" and that "Goku always wins".

Vegeta's track record is definitely much better since Super but Vegeta not only loses but loses badly especially in Z. Vegeta's one strength is he doesn't give up when he loses and keeps getting up.

But Goku definitely had a better track record then Vegeta. It's not just about how the fight concludes but how Goku looks at the end of the fight.


Like sure Goku jumped out of the ring with Hit so he didn't technically win but Vegeta completely lost.

But you are right I guess Goku's track record may not be as good as its perceived. But he doesn't usually embarrass himself in fights. I think that does make Goku seem
more of a winner than maybe he actually is.

Goku will get shit for things that other characters get defended or praised from when they're really just as guilty as he is.

TBMx said Goku was being egotistical for being resolute in winning, when Vegeta's reply had him referring to himself as -sama.

I don't think Goku is egotistical either but come on Vegeta always talks like this. lol

[Simere]

But you are right I guess Goku's track record may not be as good as its perceived. But he doesn't usually embarrass himself in fights. I think that does make Goku seem
more of a winner than maybe he actually is.

Also that he doesn't pout and get angry when he loses.

I don't think Goku is egotistical either but come on Vegeta always talks like this. lol

Well, yeah, because he's always been an egotistical character.