Super Episode 109-110 (8 October 2017)

[GodVegetto91]

At 17:18 minutes every time, it's when Beerus starts talking about "Ultra Instinct". It's then we it suddenly fails me, and didn't do it before.

[Whatever]

Believe it or not my favourite moment was when after Jiren stomped Goku and the fighters still in the ring stopped fighting with each other and instead were preparing to attack Jiren instead of losing their will to fight,shattering Bermud's expectations in the process.

[kidhero1000]

Any Gifs of Goku being made to bow before the Might Jiren? That was the best part of these two episodes.

[emperior]

I still can't believe these episodes were so good. I'm so fucking happy. Everything from storyboard, script, animation, art and music was 10/10 for me.
I'm honestly amazed, this shit was on par with the first Super Saiyan transformation. Goku's emotionless look and unreal movements were completely on point, thanks to Naoki Tate.
Ultra Instinct sounds so good, Toshio wasn't kidding. Toriyama still got it, guys. Damn, I can't wait to see and hear more of this Ultra Instinct thing. It felt truly special when all the Gods reacted to it. At that moment I knew Goku just unlocked something phenomenal. Please let it be the final transformation of the whole serie, please. It looks just way too good, and the concept behind it... I just love it.
It also seems like Ultra Instinct can theoretically be achieved by everyone, which would finally make this new source of power something Goku achieved thanks to his own willpower, strength and whatnot - and not because of him being a Saiyan.
Jiren being the mortal stronger than a God was unexpected for me. It looks like Quitela never fought him (as he never recognized Jiren), and the rumor was just about there being a mortal stronger than the strongest Hakaishin, which would be Quitela in this case. Belmod is also quite sure no one can beat Jiren, does it mean he's also stronger than the Angels? I don't think so, maybe he was referring to mortals only.

Man, I love Dragon Ball Super. I love Goku. This special has turned me back into a child again, and made me remember why Goku is my favorite fictional character. I am thankful Super exists and I'm thankful to Toriyama for writing it. The hype is real.

[Pannaliciour]

1 word: EPICNESS

That blasting Goku away in combination with blocking Hits attack (the not-expecting moments) its what episodes separates the best from the not that best!

[darzap]

Those are all made-up explanations or do you think I was not watching to see if it was the "kickback". I know wings are allowed but not only was the kickback not the reason because there were enough shots when it was not possible but also were there enough moments when he and Jiren definitely were flying. That has nothing to do with "only the lighter than air"-method, etc. It destroys the whole point of the rule.

The only made-up thing I see here is the idea that "no-flying" is a rule, the violation of which should be punished when the subs during Daishinkans explanation of the tournament setting clearly state:

"First, weapons other than techniques may not be used. Second, opponents may not be killed. Third, flying skills such as Flight are nullified in the World of Void."

Note the lack of words like "may not", "must not", etc. in the last sentence. It is a property of the arena, as was noted by characters in the beginning of the tournament, and not a rule. We have seen people moving through air long before the actual Bukujutsu-technique was introduced, using the kickback of Ki attacks, jumping really high and steering their fall, and so on. So, by applying the established facts and rules, what's made-up is "they should have disqualified Goku" and what actually makes sense is "there was no rule here to be broken, and the movements through the air are best explained by previously established ways of doing that."
If anything they are a bit sloppy with their physics, but applying that standard to Dragonball or Anime in general, would be a joke.

[Kishido]

This episode was the best thing I have watched/read in years... Just awesome.

Here are some points

1. Limit Breaker Goku is awesome... Whatever the form exactly is... Just awesome. Waiting for more... And interesting in the "heat" not even Whis could explain
2. Quitella is still smiling... Interesting
3. So Goku still needs to be in base for Genkidama... While Trunks was in Ikari.
4. Vegeta was a total dick
6. Freeza is da best... Now it seems he has IT... Will be useful in the future if he becomes some sort of anti hero appearing in certain events.
7. Now wanting to see how the manga handles Jiren... So far we just have the info about Quitella... But the anime seemed to mean Vermouth with the arm wrestling and Jiren as the mortal

[LordCrumb]

Frieza will give power to Goku. I think that's what he means..

[SaiyanZ]

Disappointed as usual in the writing, from Toshio Yoshitaka having Goku use a Genki Dama on someone he knows is a good guy, to the explanation for the form. At least the animation was pretty cool and the music at first was nice to listen to. Shouldn't really be surprised that Super fucked up this badly on a special they had been hyping for a month, but for w/e reason it still astounds me on how bad they are.

[Kishido]

And Krillint he liar LOL

The trump card that always saved us

[Cetra]

The only made-up thing I see here is the idea that "no-flying" is a rule, the violation of which should be punished when the subs during Daishinkans explanation of the tournament setting clearly state "First, weapons other than techniques may not be used. Second, opponents may not be killed. Third, flying skills such as Flight are nullified in the World of Void.", note the lack of words like "may not", "must not", etc. in the last sentence. It is a property of the arena, as was noted by characters in the beginning of the tournament, and not a rule. We have seen people moving through air long before the actual Bukujutsu-technique was introduced, using the kickback of Ki attacks, jumping really high and steering their fall, and so on. So, by applying the established facts and rules, what's made-up is "they should have disqualified Goku" and what actually makes sense is "there was no rule here to be broken, and the movements through the air are best explained by previously established ways of doing that."
If anything they are a bit sloppy with their physics, but applying that standard to Dragonball or Anime in general, would be a joke.

You still don't understand it. There is a difference between me complaining about a kickback, which was clearly not always the case and actual flying. Characters in Dragon Ball are fast enough to keep themselves in the sky for a few attacks, that is true. And their own attacks/the impact of attacks/opponent's attacks can "hold them up longer", e.g. the "kickback" and other things that you are looking for all the time. But not everything in the show is just that and I'm sorry, but no - your post was the one with the made-up explanation. A totally ordinary one like it happens all the time a fan wants to explain something that is not official, not implied, not proven or anything in the show. Goku was keeping himself in the air for a very, very long time while trying to resist the Genkidama, even when the Genkidama was not being pushed towards his direction and even then in a stance that should not be possible at this point. And when he was going Ultra Instinct there were clearly frames where he and Jiren simply moved - or in Jiren's case sometimes not even moved but straight stood in the air - from not just impacts/kickbacks. And defending that just to defend Dragon Ball once again is clearly that - made-up, inofficial fan explanation. Or do you want to add now "we do not even know how Goku and Jiren work at this point" because that is also fan assumption. Dragon Ball forgets things and that's just that. Just like Tenshinhan said he cannot feel Goku anymore when that would not have been a wonder anyway because they last form he was in before he disappeared had God ki anyway so if you do not come up with some made-up, inofficial explanation "Tenshinhan thought Goku would have transformed back to base which can be sensed by him" then this is another flaw. I do not need these things made up by fans - I can do that by myself but it will not change a single thing. Also you are trying to argue semantics here by using a "lack of words" in a show that has multiple writers. I know you are trying to turn things around by trying to claim "no, you have made up anything" but in a show with multiple writers that constantly contradict themselves and undoubtable frames this try of yours seems like the ordinary post that comes from other fans every week. I am not trying to insult you here or anything but it gets tiresome.

[Zagacious]

Those are all made-up explanations or do you think I was not watching to see if it was the "kickback". I know wings are allowed but not only was the kickback not the reason because there were enough shots when it was not possible but also were there enough moments when he and Jiren definitely were flying. That has nothing to do with "only the lighter than air"-method, etc. It destroys the whole point of the rule.

The only made-up thing I see here is the idea that "no-flying" is a rule, the violation of which should be punished when the subs during Daishinkans explanation of the tournament setting clearly state:

"First, weapons other than techniques may not be used. Second, opponents may not be killed. Third, flying skills such as Flight are nullified in the World of Void."

Note the lack of words like "may not", "must not", etc. in the last sentence. It is a property of the arena, as was noted by characters in the beginning of the tournament, and not a rule. We have seen people moving through air long before the actual Bukujutsu-technique was introduced, using the kickback of Ki attacks, jumping really high and steering their fall, and so on. So, by applying the established facts and rules, what's made-up is "they should have disqualified Goku" and what actually makes sense is "there was no rule here to be broken, and the movements through the air are best explained by previously established ways of doing that."
If anything they are a bit sloppy with their physics, but applying that standard to Dragonball or Anime in general, would be a joke.

There's tons of moments where people are literally just floating, not at all during energy beam struggles. I'm certain the writers/animators completely forgot about the flying restriction at this point because some of it is very obvious where they're just floating for long periods of time.

[Cetra]

Those are all made-up explanations or do you think I was not watching to see if it was the "kickback". I know wings are allowed but not only was the kickback not the reason because there were enough shots when it was not possible but also were there enough moments when he and Jiren definitely were flying. That has nothing to do with "only the lighter than air"-method, etc. It destroys the whole point of the rule.

The only made-up thing I see here is the idea that "no-flying" is a rule, the violation of which should be punished when the subs during Daishinkans explanation of the tournament setting clearly state:

"First, weapons other than techniques may not be used. Second, opponents may not be killed. Third, flying skills such as Flight are nullified in the World of Void."

Note the lack of words like "may not", "must not", etc. in the last sentence. It is a property of the arena, as was noted by characters in the beginning of the tournament, and not a rule. We have seen people moving through air long before the actual Bukujutsu-technique was introduced, using the kickback of Ki attacks, jumping really high and steering their fall, and so on. So, by applying the established facts and rules, what's made-up is "they should have disqualified Goku" and what actually makes sense is "there was no rule here to be broken, and the movements through the air are best explained by previously established ways of doing that."
If anything they are a bit sloppy with their physics, but applying that standard to Dragonball or Anime in general, would be a joke.

There's tons of moments where people are literally just floating, not at all during energy beam struggles. I'm certain the writers/animators completely forgot about the flying restriction at this point because some of it is very obvious where they're just floating for long periods of time.

My thoughts exactly. I am not just talking about dashes and kickbacks and all. It seems sometimes they think about it and sometimes they don't.

[MaskedRider]

I just remembered that when Hit attacks Jiren, Jiren asks Hit what he wants and Hit replies with, "I'm working." that implies someone put a hit on Jiren, I wonder what this means

Shouldn't really be surprised that Super fucked up this badly on a special they had been hyping for a month, but for w/e reason it still astounds me on how bad they are.

You say this like its objective nobody was satisfied with the special

[Zagacious]

There's tons of moments where people are literally just floating, not at all during energy beam struggles. I'm certain the writers/animators completely forgot about the flying restriction at this point because some of it is very obvious where they're just floating for long periods of time.

My thoughts exactly. I am not just talking about dashes and kickbacks and all. It seems sometimes they think about it and sometimes they don't.

The first really bad instance I noticed was during the Android 17 episode, the Androids were literally flying around for a majority of the episode. Ever since then the rules have randomly been ignored and you'll see people flying all the time. It was not due to jumping, kickbacks, or energy struggles either. This is made obvious by the long period of time where they're just floating.

I'm just trying to justify it with headcanon that Grand Priest slowly removed the restriction as time went on, or perhaps he changed the restriction to only apply to flying once you're over the edges, because without that explanation it makes no sense and people are 100% flying.

[precita]

I wonder why Krillin, Tien and Roshi were allowed to give energy for the Spirit Bomb when they were knocked out of the tournament. Shouldn't they not be allowed to give energy toward Goku since they're out? Kinda funny nobody mentioned anything about that in the episode.

[SaiyanZ]

Shouldn't really be surprised that Super fucked up this badly on a special they had been hyping for a month, but for w/e reason it still astounds me on how bad they are.

You say this like its objective nobody was satisfied with the special

Uh, no? I'm talking about me.

[Cetra]

There's tons of moments where people are literally just floating, not at all during energy beam struggles. I'm certain the writers/animators completely forgot about the flying restriction at this point because some of it is very obvious where they're just floating for long periods of time.

My thoughts exactly. I am not just talking about dashes and kickbacks and all. It seems sometimes they think about it and sometimes they don't.

The first really bad instance I noticed was during the Android 17 episode, the Androids were literally flying around for a majority of the episode. Ever since then the rules have randomly been ignored and you'll see people flying all the time. It was not due to jumping, kickbacks, or energy struggles either. This is made obvious by the long period of time where they're just floating.

I'm just trying to justify it with headcanon that Grand Priest slowly removed the restriction as time went on, or perhaps he changed the restriction to only apply to flying once you're over the edges, because without that explanation it makes no sense and people are 100% flying.

I also very often caught myself thinking that things were because of dashes and attacks in some episodes but by the end of the day it is an inconsistent show and this dual episode to me seems like the definite example when it comes to that one "established" thing. Fan assumptions and unclear explanations by them concluded from something that is not unequivocal cannot get rid of something that seems inconsistent. We do not have the power to do that so I normally ignore these things. I just sometimes point some things out. That is all.

[Jigurashi]

The best part of the two episodes for me was when Goku said he might use his wish for his family or a strong enemy. Not just a strong enemy but he also mentioned Chichi and his sons.

Hilarious how we get this showing of him (more than one occasion this saga) caring for his family yet Vegeta hasn't shown that at all dthe spite his Bio saying he's fighting for them lol.

I got a chuckle out of Ribrianne pretty much not wanting to admit that she's attracted to Jiren.

[MaskedRider]

I wonder why Krillin, Tien and Roshi were allowed to give energy for the Spirit Bomb when they were knocked out of the tournament. Shouldn't they not be allowed to give energy toward Goku since they're out? Kinda funny nobody mentioned anything about that in the episode.

To be fair there is nothing specifically stating they can't do what they did, Ribrianne got help from her universe audience when she transformed. Also betting Zeno thought it would be cool so he'll allow it. You could argue Frost but he was out and trying to attack ("No attacks from the outside!") where as the universe seven warriors that are out aren't necessarily attacking.