Opinions on Jiren?

[UpFromTheSkies]

I don't know enough about him to give an opinion yet. He's very stoic and mysterious like Hit, and he hasn't been pushed hard enough yet to show emotion and character depth, but I'm sure we'll see that later on.

[CJStriker_CBR]

Unlike so others that seem Not to want to Give New Characters time to Develop ~~~~ I am More Open Minded on this Subject and while I can make a joke about Jiren not having much of a personality for fun;

I WILL Give him a Chance to Develop his Character. That is the Right and Justifiable thing to, it will take many more episodes to do that, BUT I and We all Gave all the Other characters Hundreds of Episodes to Develop to grow on us!

He has an interesting start to him, but more is needed to say the least.

It is only Right and Honorable to do the Same for Jiren and ANY OTHER new Character that comes along!

[Asura]

love him so far. all the people who said hes boring have no sense of good charecters. they think if you are silent then you must be boring. jiren lack of speech is what makes him so cool

So what makes Jiren a "good character"? How does Jiren satisfy the hallmarks of a good character?

How would you describe Jiren's personality? Well, he has none.

How would you describe Jiren's motivations? Haven't seen them yet.

How would you describe Jiren's hallmark features? He's strong... that's about it. Doesn't have any unique gimmicks or fighting techniques either.

How would you describe Jiren's backstory or anything relevant to his character other than being told he's strong? Well, there's still nothing else there.

He really is like Broly. He's cool to look at it because of how strong he is but underneath that there's literally no character there at all.


Now let's compare that to another stoic character, Hit.

How would you describe Hit's personality? Stoic, experienced, enjoys a good fight, shows some compassionate emotion towards Goku as well as towards his U6 teammates. He's intimidating not because we're told he's intimidating, not because he just stands there and says shitty one liners, but because there's an air of mystery around him and his abilities as well as his backstory of being a 1000 year old assassin.

How would you describe Hit's motivations? Well, a bit murky I guess. He obviously wants to live which means keeping his universe alive. He wanted Champa's cube to fly to different universes, although the question still remains as to why.

How would you describe Hit's hallmark features? His unique time stopping abilities and the mystery of how Hit is so powerful/what is his secret ability during the U6 arc made him a very interesting antagonist. He's a deadly assassin and we're not only told that but we're shown it too.

How would you describe Hit's backstory or anything relevant to his character other than being told he's strong? He's 1000 years old and again, he's an assassin. The best assassin in the entire universe in fact. There's an air of mystery around him but you at least know what he does and why he's so strong and so dangerous with his abilities instead of taking the Jiren approach which is just "He's strong because we're telling you he's strong" because otherwise there's nothing unique or interesting about the way Jiren fights.



So it has nothing to do with finding silent characters boring, it's just that Jiren isn't written as a good character, silent or not. He's just written as an obstacle for Goku to overcome rather than an enemy for Goku to overcome.

Unlike so others that seem Not to want to Give New Characters time to Develop ~~~~ I am More Open Minded on this Subject and while I can make a joke about Jiren not having much of a personality for fun;

I WILL Give him a Chance to Develop his Character. That is the Right and Justifiable thing to, it will take many more episodes to do that, BUT I and We all Gave all the Other characters Hundreds of Episodes to Develop to grow on us!

He has an interesting start to him, but more is needed to say the least.

It is only Right and Honorable to do the Same for Jiren and ANY OTHER new Character that comes along!

What character took you hundreds of episodes before they grew on you? Every major antagonist in Z grew on me almost instantly. Beerus and Whis grew on me instantly. Black grew on me instantly. This was the time when Jiren's character should have started to develop. This was the chance that was given to him. Hit was as boring as Jiren was when the U6 arc first started, but then after he started fighting he grew more and more interesting and started to talk more. Jiren still hasn't done that yet after fighting Goku. If they haven't given him any character now or anything unique about him then they probably never will.

[UpFromTheSkies]

love him so far. all the people who said hes boring have no sense of good charecters. they think if you are silent then you must be boring. jiren lack of speech is what makes him so cool

So what makes Jiren a "good character"? How does Jiren satisfy the hallmarks of a good character?

How would you describe Jiren's personality? Well, he has none.

How would you describe Jiren's motivations? Haven't seen them yet.

How would you describe Jiren's hallmark features? He's strong... that's about it. Doesn't have any unique gimmicks or fighting techniques either.

How would you describe Jiren's backstory or anything relevant to his character other than being told he's strong? Well, there's still nothing else there.

He really is like Broly. He's cool to look at it because of how strong he is but underneath that there's literally no character there at all.


Now let's compare that to another stoic character, Hit.

How would you describe Hit's personality? Stoic, experienced, enjoys a good fight, shows some compassionate emotion towards Goku as well as towards his U6 teammates. He's intimidating not because we're told he's intimidating, not because he just stands there and says shitty one liners, but because there's an air of mystery around him and his abilities as well as his backstory of being a 1000 year old assassin.

How would you describe Hit's motivations? Well, a bit murky I guess. He obviously wants to live which means keeping his universe alive. He wanted Champa's cube to fly to different universes, although the question still remains as to why.

How would you describe Hit's hallmark features? His unique time stopping abilities and the mystery of how Hit is so powerful/what is his secret ability during the U6 arc made him a very interesting antagonist. He's a deadly assassin and we're not only told that but we're shown it too.

How would you describe Hit's backstory or anything relevant to his character other than being told he's strong? He's 1000 years old and again, he's an assassin. The best assassin in the entire universe in fact. There's an air of mystery around him but you at least know what he does and why he's so strong and so dangerous with his abilities instead of taking the Jiren approach which is just "He's strong because we're telling you he's strong" because otherwise there's nothing unique or interesting about the way Jiren fights.



So it has nothing to do with finding silent characters boring, it's just that Jiren isn't written as a good character, silent or not. He's just written as an obstacle for Goku to overcome rather than an enemy for Goku to overcome.

Before Goku made Hit get serious in battle, he was exactly like Jiren. We haven't seen enough of Jiren to judge his character yet.

[CJStriker_CBR]

What character took you hundreds of episodes before they grew on you? Every major antagonist in Z grew on me almost instantly. Beerus and Whis grew on me instantly. Black grew on me instantly. This was the time when Jiren's character should have started to develop. This was the chance that was given to him. Hit was as boring as Jiren was when the U6 arc first started, but then after he started fighting he grew more and more interesting and started to talk more. Jiren still hasn't done that yet after fighting Goku. If they haven't given him any character now or anything unique about him then they probably never will.

You missed what I was meaning, we GAVE characters hundreds of episodes to grow with us, not it took hundreds to be like. The point is to elaborate on that in the past we gave characters a chance to win us over and did not give these newly formed standards that seem to now have pop-up to either like or undercut them cause we need to give an opinion like a snap on them. Their are characters that took sometime to grow on me and other fans of other mediums that say the same for other characters cause it is a process and sometimes it is years if a company is will to stick to them for that long, comics is a main example of this. The Few episodes rule is really not a good ideal cause it needs to allow the story to unfold with no time-limit towards how that character develops.

Yea Jiren needs more, but I am willing to give Toei time to do that, all that is on their end of the deal is that they keep him around long enough to show that and not cut him short or out of the story in the future to derail him.

If that is still not your standard fine, but I don't think that is a good ideal for me and many going for any new character to feel they need to rush to a judgment on a character to show they have a judgement.

[CJStriker_CBR]

Before Goku made Hit get serious in battle, he was exactly like Jiren. We haven't seen enough of Jiren to judge his character yet.

My Form of Thinking Exactly UpFromTheSkies and Honestly while this level of ideals start with Ribrianne and Universe 2 for me, I am willing to give it now more to Jiren, Universe 11 as well as all the New Characters in the ToP.

Honestly this EARLY & RUSH Judgement ideal that is going around is a result of posting cause we want to be the 1st to have a judgment on a character. Now while that is ok in liking a character we need to have Humility and express things can change. But it is not correct to use this to undercut a character who is at most still in his infant development stage of character development.

Jiren has allot to go threw indeed, but it is only right and fair to give him a chance to develop like Fans gave Hit, Frost and others in Super to develop even when 1st few episode impressed where not the best, it shows it takes time.

[gohan_black]

love him so far. all the people who said hes boring have no sense of good charecters. they think if you are silent then you must be boring. jiren lack of speech is what makes him so cool

So what makes Jiren a "good character"? How does Jiren satisfy the hallmarks of a good character?

How would you describe Jiren's personality? Well, he has none.

How would you describe Jiren's motivations? Haven't seen them yet.

How would you describe Jiren's hallmark features? He's strong... that's about it. Doesn't have any unique gimmicks or fighting techniques either.

How would you describe Jiren's backstory or anything relevant to his character other than being told he's strong? Well, there's still nothing else there.

He really is like Broly. He's cool to look at it because of how strong he is but underneath that there's literally no character there at all.


Now let's compare that to another stoic character, Hit.

How would you describe Hit's personality? Stoic, experienced, enjoys a good fight, shows some compassionate emotion towards Goku as well as towards his U6 teammates. He's intimidating not because we're told he's intimidating, not because he just stands there and says shitty one liners, but because there's an air of mystery around him and his abilities as well as his backstory of being a 1000 year old assassin.

How would you describe Hit's motivations? Well, a bit murky I guess. He obviously wants to live which means keeping his universe alive. He wanted Champa's cube to fly to different universes, although the question still remains as to why.

How would you describe Hit's hallmark features? His unique time stopping abilities and the mystery of how Hit is so powerful/what is his secret ability during the U6 arc made him a very interesting antagonist. He's a deadly assassin and we're not only told that but we're shown it too.

How would you describe Hit's backstory or anything relevant to his character other than being told he's strong? He's 1000 years old and again, he's an assassin. The best assassin in the entire universe in fact. There's an air of mystery around him but you at least know what he does and why he's so strong and so dangerous with his abilities instead of taking the Jiren approach which is just "He's strong because we're telling you he's strong" because otherwise there's nothing unique or interesting about the way Jiren fights.



So it has nothing to do with finding silent characters boring, it's just that Jiren isn't written as a good character, silent or not. He's just written as an obstacle for Goku to overcome rather than an enemy for Goku to overcome.

Unlike so others that seem Not to want to Give New Characters time to Develop ~~~~ I am More Open Minded on this Subject and while I can make a joke about Jiren not having much of a personality for fun;

I WILL Give him a Chance to Develop his Character. That is the Right and Justifiable thing to, it will take many more episodes to do that, BUT I and We all Gave all the Other characters Hundreds of Episodes to Develop to grow on us!

He has an interesting start to him, but more is needed to say the least.

It is only Right and Honorable to do the Same for Jiren and ANY OTHER new Character that comes along!

What character took you hundreds of episodes before they grew on you? Every major antagonist in Z grew on me almost instantly. Beerus and Whis grew on me instantly. Black grew on me instantly. This was the time when Jiren's character should have started to develop. This was the chance that was given to him. Hit was as boring as Jiren was when the U6 arc first started, but then after he started fighting he grew more and more interesting and started to talk more. Jiren still hasn't done that yet after fighting Goku. If they haven't given him any character now or anything unique about him then they probably never will.

jiren has no personality beause he bearly talks? wow. such a great generalization.

[Asura]

What character took you hundreds of episodes before they grew on you? Every major antagonist in Z grew on me almost instantly. Beerus and Whis grew on me instantly. Black grew on me instantly. This was the time when Jiren's character should have started to develop. This was the chance that was given to him. Hit was as boring as Jiren was when the U6 arc first started, but then after he started fighting he grew more and more interesting and started to talk more. Jiren still hasn't done that yet after fighting Goku. If they haven't given him any character now or anything unique about him then they probably never will.

You missed what I was meaning, we GAVE characters hundreds of episodes to grow with us, not it took hundreds to be like. The point is to elaborate on that in the past we gave characters a chance to win us over and did not give these newly formed standards that seem to now have pop-up to either like or undercut them cause we need to give an opinion like a snap on them. Their are characters that took sometime to grow on me and other fans of other mediums that say the same for other characters cause it is a process and sometimes it is years if a company is will to stick to them for that long, comics is a main example of this. The Few episodes rule is really not a good ideal cause it needs to allow the story to unfold with no time-limit towards how that character develops.

Yea Jiren needs more, but I am willing to give Toei time to do that, all that is on their end of the deal is that they keep him around long enough to show that and not cut him short or out of the story in the future to derail him.

If that is still not your standard fine, but I don't think that is a good ideal for me and many going for any new character to feel they need to rush to a judgment on a character to show they have a judgement.

Again, what character did you have to watch for hundreds of episodes to grow with you? I instantly liked Black from the first episode I saw him in. I instantly liked Freeza from the first episode of Z I saw him in. I didn't need hundreds of episodes for those characters to grow on me. They were good characters so they instantly grew on me. An example of a character that didn't instantly grow on me but that I came to like was Hit. Only, Jiren has already done what Hit has done which made began to make Hit interesting and it still hasn't done anything for Jiren's character.

If a character takes hundreds of episodes to grow on you, most likely that means it's a pretty bad character.

jiren has no personality beause he bearly talks? wow. such a great generalization.

If a character barely talks then they should have some other aspect about them that helps to define them. Jiren doesn't have anything except his strength. It's pretty obvious to most people that Jiren's personality is the equivalent of a wet newspaper.

[Ranmaru Rei]

He really is like Broly. He's cool to look at it because of how strong he is but underneath that there's literally no character there at all.

They're very different. The diffrence like between voiceless (don't speak) and speechless (can't speak) characters, IMHO. Broly has nothing to show, Jiren has but does not show. Jiren is freaking introvert, lol.

[gohan_black]

What character took you hundreds of episodes before they grew on you? Every major antagonist in Z grew on me almost instantly. Beerus and Whis grew on me instantly. Black grew on me instantly. This was the time when Jiren's character should have started to develop. This was the chance that was given to him. Hit was as boring as Jiren was when the U6 arc first started, but then after he started fighting he grew more and more interesting and started to talk more. Jiren still hasn't done that yet after fighting Goku. If they haven't given him any character now or anything unique about him then they probably never will.

You missed what I was meaning, we GAVE characters hundreds of episodes to grow with us, not it took hundreds to be like. The point is to elaborate on that in the past we gave characters a chance to win us over and did not give these newly formed standards that seem to now have pop-up to either like or undercut them cause we need to give an opinion like a snap on them. Their are characters that took sometime to grow on me and other fans of other mediums that say the same for other characters cause it is a process and sometimes it is years if a company is will to stick to them for that long, comics is a main example of this. The Few episodes rule is really not a good ideal cause it needs to allow the story to unfold with no time-limit towards how that character develops.

Yea Jiren needs more, but I am willing to give Toei time to do that, all that is on their end of the deal is that they keep him around long enough to show that and not cut him short or out of the story in the future to derail him.

If that is still not your standard fine, but I don't think that is a good ideal for me and many going for any new character to feel they need to rush to a judgment on a character to show they have a judgement.

Again, what character did you have to watch for hundreds of episodes to grow with you? I instantly liked Black from the first episode I saw him in. I instantly liked Freeza from the first episode of Z I saw him in. I didn't need hundreds of episodes for those characters to grow on me. They were good characters so they instantly grew on me. An example of a character that didn't instantly grow on me but that I came to like was Hit. Only, Jiren has already done what Hit has done which made began to make Hit interesting and it still hasn't done anything for Jiren's character.

If a character takes hundreds of episodes to grow on you, most likely that means it's a pretty bad character.

jiren has no personality beause he bearly talks? wow. such a great generalization.

If a character barely talks then they should have some other aspect about them that helps to define them. Jiren doesn't have anything except his strength. It's pretty obvious to most people that Jiren's personality is the equivalent of a wet newspaper.

jiren is a clone of hit. thats why the next episode will be the most interesting yet. hit just had more screen time

[Asura]

You missed what I was meaning, we GAVE characters hundreds of episodes to grow with us, not it took hundreds to be like. The point is to elaborate on that in the past we gave characters a chance to win us over and did not give these newly formed standards that seem to now have pop-up to either like or undercut them cause we need to give an opinion like a snap on them. Their are characters that took sometime to grow on me and other fans of other mediums that say the same for other characters cause it is a process and sometimes it is years if a company is will to stick to them for that long, comics is a main example of this. The Few episodes rule is really not a good ideal cause it needs to allow the story to unfold with no time-limit towards how that character develops.

Yea Jiren needs more, but I am willing to give Toei time to do that, all that is on their end of the deal is that they keep him around long enough to show that and not cut him short or out of the story in the future to derail him.

If that is still not your standard fine, but I don't think that is a good ideal for me and many going for any new character to feel they need to rush to a judgment on a character to show they have a judgement.

Again, what character did you have to watch for hundreds of episodes to grow with you? I instantly liked Black from the first episode I saw him in. I instantly liked Freeza from the first episode of Z I saw him in. I didn't need hundreds of episodes for those characters to grow on me. They were good characters so they instantly grew on me. An example of a character that didn't instantly grow on me but that I came to like was Hit. Only, Jiren has already done what Hit has done which made began to make Hit interesting and it still hasn't done anything for Jiren's character.

If a character takes hundreds of episodes to grow on you, most likely that means it's a pretty bad character.

jiren has no personality beause he bearly talks? wow. such a great generalization.

If a character barely talks then they should have some other aspect about them that helps to define them. Jiren doesn't have anything except his strength. It's pretty obvious to most people that Jiren's personality is the equivalent of a wet newspaper.

jiren is a clone of hit. thats why the next episode will be the most interesting yet. hit just had more screen time

Jiren isn't a clone of Hit. What initially made Hit interesting before we even got to see some of his personality was the mystery surrounding his techniques and how Goku would be able to counter him, as well as his assassin backstory and his age, 1000 years old. He continued to get even more interesting once we found out about his "Pure Progress". All of this happened when he fought Goku and Vegeta. Well, Jiren's already had the first major fight with Goku and he probably managed to say a whopping 15 words during the entirety of both episodes. Nothing about his techniques were interesting, it was just generic strong guy is strong. Nothing about Jiren's backstory so far has been interesting. We know he's a pride trooper and that he's strong, that's literally it. I don't even care to know more about him because he's already so damn boring.

Even if he does get better, why should I care now? This was the first major event where they could have shown him off and they still didn't. Maybe there's just nothing really to show off? Maybe he really is just a boring ass dude whose only mystery is what he wants the dragon balls for.

Crossing your arms and saying cheesy shitty one liners every time you're on screen is only so cool for so long.

[wolflonnie]

If a character takes hundreds of episodes to grow on you, most likely that means it's a pretty bad character.

Statement of the year /s

Solid presentation via battle with Goku. I kinda like that his power doesn't come from anything too special, and it's just brute strenght. The battle made me more interested in Jiren. Curious to see more of him now.

[CJStriker_CBR]

Again, what character did you have to watch for hundreds of episodes to grow with you? I instantly liked Black from the first episode I saw him in. I instantly liked Freeza from the first episode of Z I saw him in. I didn't need hundreds of episodes for those characters to grow on me. They were good characters so they instantly grew on me. An example of a character that didn't instantly grow on me but that I came to like was Hit. Only, Jiren has already done what Hit has done which made began to make Hit interesting and it still hasn't done anything for Jiren's character.

If a character takes hundreds of episodes to grow on you, most likely that means it's a pretty bad character.

jiren has no personality beause he bearly talks? wow. such a great generalization.

If a character barely talks then they should have some other aspect about them that helps to define them. Jiren doesn't have anything except his strength. It's pretty obvious to most people that Jiren's personality is the equivalent of a wet newspaper.

Again I said that as an elaboration...........that different characters take different amounts of time.

Yes some are fast like you just need a moment to like them. Others take time and sometimes that is a longtime, Piccolo did not become a favorite of mind until many arcs past cause of how he developed, it is an example of you never know how much time it takes to like a character, it takes the time of the Story to do that.

The best ideal is to give the story time to develop as long as the storyteller is using the character and when it seems they are done using them then we can get a judgement. But the justifiable way to judge is to give time, not rush it if it is not needed.

[Asura]

Again, what character did you have to watch for hundreds of episodes to grow with you? I instantly liked Black from the first episode I saw him in. I instantly liked Freeza from the first episode of Z I saw him in. I didn't need hundreds of episodes for those characters to grow on me. They were good characters so they instantly grew on me. An example of a character that didn't instantly grow on me but that I came to like was Hit. Only, Jiren has already done what Hit has done which made began to make Hit interesting and it still hasn't done anything for Jiren's character.

If a character takes hundreds of episodes to grow on you, most likely that means it's a pretty bad character.

jiren has no personality beause he bearly talks? wow. such a great generalization.

If a character barely talks then they should have some other aspect about them that helps to define them. Jiren doesn't have anything except his strength. It's pretty obvious to most people that Jiren's personality is the equivalent of a wet newspaper.

Again I said that as an elaboration...........that different characters take different amounts of time.

Yes some are fast like you just need a moment to like them. Others take time and sometimes that is a longtime, Piccolo did not become a favorite of mind until many arcs past cause of how he developed, it is an example of you never know how much time it takes to like a character, it takes the time of the Story to do that.

The best ideal is to give the story time to develop as long as the storyteller is using the character and when it seems they are done using them then we can get a judgement. But the justifiable way to judge is to give time, not rush it if it is not needed.

If the writers have failed to make a single thing interesting about him by now when we're already 14 episodes in to the tournament, then he already deserves full judgement. I've been holding off judgement on him, and even telling others to do so too until the main event starts and when he starts fighting Goku then we're bound to get something more to him.

But nope, that's already happened, and there's still nothing to him. This was their chance and they already blew it. Jiren deserves full judgement from now on because things are starting to happen and he's still no more interesting than when he first appeared in the tournament. He's been given more than enough time at this point, and I shouldn't be having to wait until the entire arc is over before I can make judgement on his character because the peaks of the arc are starting to happen and he's exactly the same.

It's the same with Ribrianne. These characters have been given more than enough screen time and they're no different from when they first appeared. They're both just terribly boring stereotypes of the magical girl and the strong silent antagonist without anything else given to them.

[Beerus-sama]

Everything about him is boring. Design, motivation, backstory , he's just strong and nothing else

[CJStriker_CBR]

If the writers have failed to make a single thing interesting about him by now when we're already 14 episodes in to the tournament, then he already deserves full judgement. I've been holding off judgement on him, and even telling others to do so too until the main event starts and when he starts fighting Goku then we're bound to get something more to him.

But nope, that's already happened, and there's still nothing to him. This was their chance and they already blew it. Jiren deserves full judgement from now on because things are starting to happen and he's still no more interesting than when he first appeared in the tournament. He's been given more than enough time at this point, and I shouldn't be having to wait until the entire arc is over before I can make judgement on his character because the peaks of the arc are starting to happen and he's exactly the same.

It's the same with Ribrianne. These characters have been given more than enough screen time and they're no different from when they first appeared. They're both just terribly boring stereotypes of the magical girl and the strong silent antagonist without anything else given to them.

This is going around in circles, We are going to Have to Agree to Disagree Then!

I don't agree at all with that Quick Judgement like view of Characters, it undercuts storytelling and development IMO and when even I sadly employed it back in the past at times I have regretted it greatly, I learned that lesson from fellow comic fans that well versed in pop culture and comics.

If that is the way you live your life, Go Right ahead and have a Blast, but I will stick to my way and give reasons on why character develop should have NO Time Limit.

[TekTheNinja]

Hit seemed bland at first, but the intricacies of his character showed greatly during his fight with Goku and proved he was a fantastic new cast member to have around. Jiren seemed bland at first and even after fighting Goku, has still shown nothing of intrigue. That's the big difference in the two most recent major stoic characters.

[Michsi]

I agree with the notion that stoic and laconic are personality traits, and there is nothing wrong with having such a character brought to the forefront, but generally you require other elements to help shape their presence in the story, like :
- an appealing character design
- an interesting background
- an intriguing relationship with other characters
- a special ability that makes them stand out
- an interesting motive

The only thing Jiren has right now is immense power, but other than that, he himself is fairly bland. It actually did a disservice to the battle, imo, since I'm given no reason to either dislike or root for him.

[Asura]

It actually did a disservice to the battle, imo, since I'm given no reason to either dislike or root for him.

This was another thing that bothered me heavily during the fight. I just didn't really feel as invested in it as I should have because I didn't care for Jiren at all, and the show gave me no reason to care for him either. As far as I was concerned it was just Goku fighting some strong dude, not an actual person.

[pacz360]

People calling jiren boring get outta here
Hit wasn't interesting until his fight with goku and don't act like his personality is any different from jiren