Does Funimation really treat Dragonball that bad?

caejones · Post by **caejones** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:08 am

Zedd=Badass. So badass, in fact, that he's the arch villain in the current saga of an originally DBZ-based RPG in a land I shan't reveal yet.

When did Sabbat doing all the voices start to really bug me?
In the BT1, when I heard Zarban talk. It's just Yamcha with a pompus accent!
And then the DB wish in the cell saga... I couldn't tell if it was Yamcha or Kami making the wish! (Yes, I know Kami was in Piccolo... but we've heard Nail speak from within Piccolo before...).
Sabbat's Piccolo and Scot McNeil's Piccolo... both are awesome in different ways.
But then there's Vegeta, where we have a lot of over the top testosterone-high ranting and raving... sometimes it works, sometimes it's just "Well look, there's Vegeta being an ass again. :3".
But dub Vegeta's line to Puipui before knocking his intestines out was T-shirt worthy...

Onikage725 · Post by **Onikage725** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:35 am

caejones wrote:Zedd=Badass. So badass, in fact, that he's the arch villain in the current saga of an originally DBZ-based RPG in a land I shan't reveal yet.

When did Sabbat doing all the voices start to really bug me?
In the BT1, when I heard Zarban talk. It's just Yamcha with a pompus accent!
And then the DB wish in the cell saga... I couldn't tell if it was Yamcha or Kami making the wish! (Yes, I know Kami was in Piccolo... but we've heard Nail speak from within Piccolo before...).
Sabbat's Piccolo and Scot McNeil's Piccolo... both are awesome in different ways.
But then there's Vegeta, where we have a lot of over the top testosterone-high ranting and raving... sometimes it works, sometimes it's just "Well look, there's Vegeta being an ass again. :3".
But dub Vegeta's line to Puipui before knocking his intestines out was T-shirt worthy...

Yeah, I actually liked a good chunk of the Buu Saga dub, especially Vegeta up to the Majin stuff and sacrifice. It was such a positive shift in quality from the Cell Saga. Not they faithful adaptation I wanted, but a lot closer than it had been. Hell, his speech at the arena about why he chose to go Majin turned me into a System of a Down fan. Long story short, I hated the band. Someone made a Chop Suey AMV to the Majin Vegeta fight, starting with that whole exchange. An I ended up watching it over and over for that scene, and the band grew on me in the process.

Oh, from my other post about Sabat and Drummond-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGbfGisVZf4

I honestly think thats the most pissed off I've ever heard Vegeta in English. Ditto the NINE THOUSAAAAAAAAAAAND scene where Sabat sounds mildly perturbed and Drummond sounded like he'd just busted an artery.

Super Sonic · Post by **Super Sonic** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 7:16 am

dagame10k wrote:
Super Sonic wrote:Can't agree. Likely due to Mr. Sabat being able to get away with more than Mr. Drummond, I have to say his season 1 & 2 Vegeta seemed like more of a bastard and more menacing yet subtle. Same wit his Piccolo. It's better when they'r evil.
Sabat is able to get away with more than Drummond?

I'll agree with that to an extent, well simply because FUNi continues to to screw up the show, and at the same time, Sabat is the Voice Director which doesn't help matters.

What I meant was how during their wait for Goku, Mr. Drummond's Vegeta was telling Nappa about how they would make Kakarot join them while the re-dub Mr. Sabat's Vegeta said they were going to punish the traitor.

MajinVejitaXV · Post by **MajinVejitaXV** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 8:04 am

Onikage725 wrote:Oh, from my other post about Sabat and Drummond-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGbfGisVZf4

I honestly think thats the most pissed off I've ever heard Vegeta in English. Ditto the NINE THOUSAAAAAAAAAAAND scene where Sabat sounds mildly perturbed and Drummond sounded like he'd just busted an artery.

*sigh* I miss Drummond. With proper direction (i.e. - More in lines with his Zechs Marquise voice, which he did use in Majin Vejita's kamikaze), scripts and the OST...english Vejita would kick the ass of everyone.

Too bad DBZ got screwed so horribly.

... I like "BWUAHAHA MUTHAFUCKA!" Vegeta.

Except it doesn't fit and the acting was horrible. Then again, it's hard for you to be objective with FUNi's cock in your mouth I suppose... ;p

-Corey

Kunzait_83 · Post by **Kunzait_83** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:07 am

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:54 am

Kunzait_83 wrote:Sabat can be looked at in one of three ways: Sabat the voice actor, Sabat the ADR Director for DBZ, and Sabat the ADR Director for other FUNimation dubs. And of those three gigs, the only one he really excels at is the third one.

Chris Sabat is an outstanding Voice Director in other non-Dragon Ball related dubs; he's brought out some awesome performances for stuff like Gunslinger Girl, the Lupin movies, Yu Yu Hakusho, Case Closed, etc. And by all accounts from people I've spoken with who know the man personally, he sounds like a really sweet, nice guy.

But all that said, and with no disrespect intended for the man personally... he simply cannot act to save his life. I honestly don't get how anyone can defend him as an actor. Without mincing words, he's horrible in EVERYTHING I've ever heard him in. His Kuwabara performance is the single worst thing about the Yu Yu dub, and the only major negative factor that truly drags it down a notch.

I haven't heard much of the Japanese verison, but I really like his Armstrong from FMA. He also doesn't do a bad job with his Shin-Chan stuff, either.

As for the versus stuff:

Drummond > Sabat
McNeil > Sabat

Kunzait_83 · Post by **Kunzait_83** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 11:10 am

SonEric84 · Post by **SonEric84** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 11:59 am

I liked King Kai's ocean voice (for seasons 1 and 2, don't know if they changed it after when they started back up later on.) and I liked Master Roshi's too.

omegacwa · Post by **omegacwa** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:04 pm

In defense of Sabat, for whatever reason, he was spreading himself extremely thin. Sure a voice actor like Drummond or McNeil can seem "Awesome" simply because they only do like, 2 or 3 voices and that's it. I remember reading an interview somewhere that said a lot of voice actors can only do like 2-3 distinct voices, so they polish those 2-3 over time, and use them for every gig, cough*Piccolo/Wolverine*cough.

So you got to give Sabat some credit, he did the best he could voicing like, 15+ characters. If he was only hired to do Vegeta, I think overtime he would have been awesome, but doing so many voices probably strained him and that's were they fell apart. Not to mention what Vegeta might have sounded like if the voices were never based of the ocean dub.

Kunzait_83 · Post by **Kunzait_83** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:53 pm

Vekurotto · Post by **Vekurotto** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 1:00 pm

I don't know. I think the reason that Sabat voices so many people is the reason I don't like him in DBZ. I actually like his Kuwabara, I couldn't tell it was him at first either but I thought he did a much better job as him than any DBZ character he's ever voiced. Yu Yu Hakusho is the only Funimation based dub that I like just as much as the original. Sure, Shigeru Chiba is way better as Kuwabara, but by no means is Kuwabara's voice realistic in Japanese, and in English. So I think it fits.

About who really captures Vegeta. Horikawa does do the best Vegeta for reasons stated before hand but I feel if given the right lines and right voice direction either Sabat and Drummond could have easily got Vegeta's character right. Unfortunately things didn't end up that way and it became more like a high quality fandub on both Ocean's and Funi's part. Moreso on Funi but on both sides IMO.

And, I don't think the performances should be praised like they're the best in anime ever either IMO. There are much better dubs that have even come out from the time before Saban's DBZ. So I'm not saying that dubs are bad, it's just that Funi's DBZ is one of the lowest dubs I've ever heard for various reasons. Hell, I would even argue that first couple of seasons of Pokemon are dubbed better than Funimation's DBZ because they at least were close to the original in terms of characterization and voices, to a certain degree.

Tsukento · Post by **Tsukento** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 1:24 pm

shenron002 wrote:I like to add, to this quasie "FUNimation/Saban" topic, is the basterdization of "Samurai Pizza Cats" it seems like they watch the show with the sound off, and created there own lines, sorta like the show "MXC".

Um...cause it was in mute, so to speak. They weren't given ANY transcripts to work with for translation purposes. So they had to recreate the whole show from scratch.

But who cares? That was one of the few cases where messing with a dub was BRILLIANT and hilarious.

kaioken12 · Post by **kaioken12** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 1:32 pm

I can't tell very much about other dubs, but if you ever saw the german version of DBZ, then you'll love anything else.
Funimation's dub is godlike compared to that and even the cropped ultra edition that is now released is better than anything you could see in the german version.

I mean, in germany they bought a cut french version and made a lot of cuts in this already cutted version (mostly to "save children" or better have more time for advertisments...).

And the dub has exactly the fitting quality more or less - it's crap.

Funimation's dub is in comparison much better.

So, yeah, Funimation milks DBZ to the end and re-re-re-releases all stuff and so on and the voices aren't maybe as good as the originals, but on the other hand, there are much worse dubs and releases on this world - so I personally can't really complain about Funimation's treatment of DBZ relatively spoken.

MajinVejitaXV · Post by **MajinVejitaXV** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 1:43 pm

Kunzait_83 wrote:Dude, take it easy. Personal insults aimed at other users is totally not cool, uncalled for, and is a sure fire ticket to thread lockage as well as an emasculating scolding from Mike if he catches it.

It's the internet, and every single post Rocketman contributes makes me cringe. Seriously, look at his contributions to this thread alone. Just my opinion.

-Corey

omegacwa · Post by **omegacwa** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:10 pm

Am I the only person who thinks most of the male voices in the mexican dub of DBZ sound the same? I mean, I watched the whole Saiyan Saga on telemundo when I was a kid, because it was unedited(I don't speak Spanish very well), and everyone of the male actors sounded similar to me, not to mention it all sounded like they were talking in a bathroom.

caejones · Post by **caejones** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:20 pm

The thing about what roles Sabat was hired to do... umm... isn't he... like... the voice director? So doesn't he have a good deal of say who makes it to the finals,so to speak?

Dark Vegeta-Sama · Post by **Dark Vegeta-Sama** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:39 pm

caejones wrote:The thing about what roles Sabat was hired to do... umm... isn't he... like... the voice director? So doesn't he have a good deal of say who makes it to the finals,so to speak?

Sabat is a perfect example of someone who obviously thought he could do a better job than anyone else. As voice director, he cast himself as like 70% of the characters in the Freeza saga.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:42 pm

MajinVejitaXV wrote:Except it doesn't fit and the acting was horrible.

An 80's cartoon with bad acting?! SAY IT AIN'T SO

Dark Vegeta-Sama · Post by **Dark Vegeta-Sama** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 2:52 pm

Rocketman wrote:
MajinVejitaXV wrote:Except it doesn't fit and the acting was horrible.
An 80's cartoon with bad acting?! SAY IT AIN'T SO

Another quality contribution to the thread.

For one thing, DBZ was primarily animated in the 1990's, and the dub is largely a product of the late 1990's/early 2000's.

Even so, why should we excuse bad acting in the modern-day, even if the show itself is old? Why can something like the original Gundam series from 1979 be given an outstanding dub with high quality voices, but a show from 1989-1995 be given a terrible dub with horrendous voices and poor scripts to go along with it?

SonEric84 · Post by **SonEric84** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 3:13 pm

Kunzait_83 wrote:
SonEric84 wrote:I liked King Kai's ocean voice (for seasons 1 and 2, don't know if they changed it after when they started back up later on.) and I liked Master Roshi's too.
Here's the thing with those two; they both simultaneously serve as "comic relief" characters, and deathly serious badass ones (particularly Muten).

Kaio is supposed to be a god; one with a really quirky sense of humor, but still a heavenly deity. When he's chilling and cracking bad puns, he's plenty goofy; but when shit gets serious, so does his voice, and manner of speaking. In non-jokey situations he speaks with authority, and a sense of boundless wisdom.

With all of his English actors they all play the character as a straight up goofball. This works fine for the "tell me a joke and I'll train you" stuff. But when he's warning Goku and the others to stay clear of Freeza, it completely robs the scenes of any sense of real danger or drama. It sounds like having Bozo the clown trying to sound ominous; you just can't take these scenes seriously like you could in the Japanese version, where when Kaio gets serious, he grabs both the characters' and the viewers' attention.

Muten's a similar case; he's both a goofy and lecherous perv on the one hand, but on the other he's one seriously badass motherfucker of a martial arts master.

Kohei Miyauchi, the original VA for Muten, was absolutely wonderful in the role. He pulled of the comic scenes very well and makes some rather dirty little sequences come off as more amusing and cute, and helps the character comes off more as an incorrigible rascal rather than an annoying stereotype or a creepy pervo which all of the nose bleeding "hentai" scenes could have easily devolved into with a lesser actor in the role.

But it's in the serious scenes and his fight scenes where he really shines.

Once serious matters come up, or when it's time for him to get his hands dirty in a fight, his voice does a total "about face". He sounds completely like someone you seriously DO NOT want to fuck with. I'm not kidding. If you haven't listened to Muten Roshi in Japanese, by all means check out either some of his fight scenes in original Dragon Ball or DBZ Movie 2. He sounds fucking SCARY, and his "Kamehameha!" scream is easily the single most badass sounding of ALL the characters in the whole series and of ANY dub.

He sounds a lot like Utsusemi from Bushido Blade, for comparison purposes. Seriously his "I'm taking this seriously" voice wouldn't sound out of place in a fucking Kurosawa Samurai epic.

Unfortunately Miyauchi passed away in 1995, and since then he's been voiced in Japan by Masaharu Sato who, while not terrible or anything, doesn't even hold a candle to Miyauchi. Again Sato falls into the trap of always voicing Muten as "goofy and harmless" which works fine in the comic scenes (which admittedly is pretty much entirely what the character was left with by the end of the series) but certainly not when fighting (like in the recent video games).

Needless to say Muten's Ocean voice made his fight scenes in Movie 2 pretty damned painful to watch, and remains the only truly bad voice performance in what was otherwise the Ocean cast's shining hour.

And off the topic of Ocean, Kaio's FUNi voice (Schemmel I believe) has to go down as one of the top 3 most absolutely unlistenable voices I've ever heard in any anime dub (and I include shitty fan dubs in this). Hell in any voice acting role period. That voice is absolutely, inexcusably WRETCHED, and I defy anyone to explain that one away. Seriously I give dub fans enormous props for being able to put up with that voice for more than five seconds without punching in their TV or stabbing a pencil in their ears.

Master Roshi in movie 2 was terrible, but that's not the same guy who voiced him in the series. I've heard Roshi in Japanese and I agree he's awesome. The Funi version of Kaio sucks compared to the ocean version, I thought the ocean version's actor could do the serious parts pretty well.