Things that grind your gears

[Forte224]

I guess one of my gear-grinds is using that kind of exaggerated language to describe your fellow fans. Delusional? Really? For something as minor as that?

No, they're just fans of a show from when they were kids and haven't really hit a certain maturity point yet to recognize they're being a tad bit ridiculous.

Maybe you haven't seen what I've seen. Sorry if you don't like my terminology but it is what it is. They're unreasonable.

By the way the definition of delusional is: "characterized by or holding idiosyncratic beliefs or impressions that are contradicted by reality or rational argument" or "based on or having faulty judgment; mistaken". Seems to fit the bill to me

[8000 Saiyan]

What grinds me gears is the double standard people have for the Ocean Dub. It makes the exact same terrible mistakes the original Funi dub did but everyone praises it. It wouldn't bother me so much if it was just comparing Ocean to OG Funi because they both are terrible. But I can't fathom people still preferring Ocean over the Kai dub performances. It makes no sense to me objectively

Maybe in terms of script, but the performances were better early on, if only due to the actors having far more experience. There are still a number of those voices that I think are vastly superior to even the Kai actors. For instance, King Kai and Ox-King's ocean dub actors are way better than their FUNi counterparts.

Well sure I'm not one of those people that think literally every little aspect is worse but, come on. Drummond Vegeta better than Sabat Kai Vegeta? Really? I don't understand the Scott McNeil love either frankly. He sounds raspy too.

Clearly I'm carrying over from the Drummond thread if it isn't obvious

I don't see anything wrong with rasp as long it as fits a character.

I prefer Drummond's screams over Sabat's anyday of the week. Sure, they may be over-the-top, but over-the-top can be a good thing.

[Forte224]

Maybe in terms of script, but the performances were better early on, if only due to the actors having far more experience. There are still a number of those voices that I think are vastly superior to even the Kai actors. For instance, King Kai and Ox-King's ocean dub actors are way better than their FUNi counterparts.

Well sure I'm not one of those people that think literally every little aspect is worse but, come on. Drummond Vegeta better than Sabat Kai Vegeta? Really? I don't understand the Scott McNeil love either frankly. He sounds raspy too.

Clearly I'm carrying over from the Drummond thread if it isn't obvious

I don't see anything wrong with rasp as long it as fits a character.

I prefer Drummond's screams over Sabat's anyday of the week. Sure, they may be over-the-top, but over-the-top can be a good thing.

Yeah I can't deny the screams are awesome. I still don't like his Vegeta voice much but I've come to really like Scott McNeil's Piccolo. I think I was in a bad mood when I wrote that stuff so I apologize if I sounded jaded

[8000 Saiyan]

Well sure I'm not one of those people that think literally every little aspect is worse but, come on. Drummond Vegeta better than Sabat Kai Vegeta? Really? I don't understand the Scott McNeil love either frankly. He sounds raspy too.

Clearly I'm carrying over from the Drummond thread if it isn't obvious

I don't see anything wrong with rasp as long it as fits a character.

I prefer Drummond's screams over Sabat's anyday of the week. Sure, they may be over-the-top, but over-the-top can be a good thing.

Yeah I can't deny the screams are awesome. I still don't like his Vegeta voice much but I've come to really like Scott McNeil's Piccolo. I think I was in a bad mood when I wrote that stuff so I apologize if I sounded jaded

I think you'll be glad to hear that while Ocean Kai hasn't come out yet, Drummond has deepened his Vegeta voice for that dub.

[Forte224]

I don't see anything wrong with rasp as long it as fits a character.

I prefer Drummond's screams over Sabat's anyday of the week. Sure, they may be over-the-top, but over-the-top can be a good thing.

Yeah I can't deny the screams are awesome. I still don't like his Vegeta voice much but I've come to really like Scott McNeil's Piccolo. I think I was in a bad mood when I wrote that stuff so I apologize if I sounded jaded

I think you'll be glad to hear that while Ocean Kai hasn't come out yet, Drummond has deepened his Vegeta voice for that dub.

Really? Damn do I want that dub. Sadly I'm not optimistic about it actually getting a release. Not unless...what do you mean "yet"? Has there been some news?

[8000 Saiyan]

Yeah I can't deny the screams are awesome. I still don't like his Vegeta voice much but I've come to really like Scott McNeil's Piccolo. I think I was in a bad mood when I wrote that stuff so I apologize if I sounded jaded

I think you'll be glad to hear that while Ocean Kai hasn't come out yet, Drummond has deepened his Vegeta voice for that dub.

Really? Damn do I want that dub. Sadly I'm not optimistic about it actually getting a release. Not unless...what do you mean "yet"? Has there been some news?

This dub has been completed since 2013 or 2014, but Canadian TV networks don't seem to be interested in airing Kai.

[Forte224]

I think you'll be glad to hear that while Ocean Kai hasn't come out yet, Drummond has deepened his Vegeta voice for that dub.

Really? Damn do I want that dub. Sadly I'm not optimistic about it actually getting a release. Not unless...what do you mean "yet"? Has there been some news?

This dub has been completed since 2013 or 2014, but Canadian TV networks don't seem to be interested in airing Kai.

Ok yeah I knew that but I thought the actors almost confirmed it would never see the air. Maybe I heard wrong though

[8000 Saiyan]

Really? Damn do I want that dub. Sadly I'm not optimistic about it actually getting a release. Not unless...what do you mean "yet"? Has there been some news?

This dub has been completed since 2013 or 2014, but Canadian TV networks don't seem to be interested in airing Kai.

Ok yeah I knew that but I thought the actors almost confirmed it would never see the air. Maybe I heard wrong though

One of our members who is a voice actor said he got information from people who worked on the dub that was never coming out. However, I'm starting to find this information to be dubious.

Anyway, if this dub ever comes out, I'm eager to hear their new takes on Goku, Frieza, Cell, Android 17 and Zarbon. It might be possible that they have a new voice for Bulma and Trunks. It'll be closer to the Japanese version than their dubs for Z.

[Forte224]

This dub has been completed since 2013 or 2014, but Canadian TV networks don't seem to be interested in airing Kai.

Ok yeah I knew that but I thought the actors almost confirmed it would never see the air. Maybe I heard wrong though

One of our members who is a voice actor said he got information from people who worked on the dub that was never coming out. However, I'm starting to find this information to be dubious.

Anyway, if this dub ever comes out, I'm eager to hear their new takes on Goku, Frieza, Cell, Android 17 and Zarbon. It might be possible that they have a new voice for Bulma and Trunks. It'll be closer to the Japanese version than their dubs for Z.

Ah ok. Hopefully it comes out. It felt like Funimation's dub of TFC would never release either and then one day bam! it got announced. Of course they had their reasons for waiting, I think they had to wait until the Cell Arc was almost over on Adult Swim before they could announce it but anyway we can only hope we'll see the Ocean dub at some point

[Ripper 30]

Ok yeah I knew that but I thought the actors almost confirmed it would never see the air. Maybe I heard wrong though

One of our members who is a voice actor said he got information from people who worked on the dub that was never coming out. However, I'm starting to find this information to be dubious.

Anyway, if this dub ever comes out, I'm eager to hear their new takes on Goku, Frieza, Cell, Android 17 and Zarbon. It might be possible that they have a new voice for Bulma and Trunks. It'll be closer to the Japanese version than their dubs for Z.

Ah ok. Hopefully it comes out. It felt like Funimation's dub of TFC would never release either and then one day bam! it got announced. Of course they had their reasons for waiting, I think they had to wait until the Cell Arc was almost over on Adult Swim before they could announce it but anyway we can only hope we'll see the Ocean dub at some point

But you have to also take into account, the fact that the FUNi dubs of Dragon Ball are most Definitive Dubs of Dragon Ball so one day or another the TFC Dub was coming because many fans were eagerly waiting for it too but I can't say the same for Ocean Dub of DBZ Kai specially now where ocean dub fans are outnumbered by FUNi dub fans.

[Bardo117]

That everybody assumes that the Japanese version of everything is the best presentation of the show and that nothing will ever be better, nor CAN anything be better.

[VegettoEX]

That everybody assumes that the Japanese version of everything is the best presentation of the show and that nothing will ever be better, nor CAN anything be better.

Contrasting this, when the point is missed that we're not always talking about raw enjoyment or "quality" or "more betterness", but rather that we can't be on the same page and talking about the same product if two different versions are produced with such different visions in mind with entirely different scripts of dialog and music that chooses to emphasize certain tones and emotions over others.

Have a blast with whatever dub you want. That's great. Knock yourself out.

If the conversation isn't about that dub -- and it's often not here on a website dedicated to the original version of the franchise -- please recognize that underlying fact, and furthermore please recognize that those alterations have no bearing on... well, much of anything.

The point is often lost that it's not "DUB BAD!", it's "we weren't talking about that, we recognize changes were made to it, and those changes really have no place in this discussion we're trying to have here regarding a product where everyone else is presumably on the same page."

Separate and independent from that, yes, it's also possible to think changes to a product are bad and should be avoided on principle alone!

[Bardo117]

I think most general audiences would agree, the simple fact that FUNI's version is in the English language automatically makes it far superior. (Dumb way to put it, but it's true. General Audiences could care less)

Like for most, Louie Armstrong's version of 'La Vie En Rose' is superior to most people simply because the song is in a language they understand.

Grinds my gears that a lot of people here, owner included, doesn't accept these facts. There are movies I HAVE to watch in their native language, such as Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon(Chinese) or The Whaling(Korean), or RAW(French), simply because it is recorded in the native language with the performance of the actor providing BOTH voicing and the visual acting simultaneously. You lose all emotion in scenes that are dubbed simply because the voice doesn't fit the actor well, or because the mouths/facial expressions don't match the tone of voice.

But when it comes to anime, and cartoons, the intent of the original actors language is irrelevant to its perception in other countries and languages. I think anime and cartoons more than any other medium are open to interpretation and changes are necessary to adapt to specific language barriers and/or personas. Everybody here pretends as if every actor on the Japanese cast was picked from a needle in a haystack, one in a million actor that was only picked because he was the absolute embodiment of the character. You guys want to pretend there's no politics, seniority, or favoritism when it comes to Toei's actors selection process? You don't think actors were picked because one was a friend to the producer, the other was a recommendation, the other did a 'favor'' or maybe one bought his way in(all hypothetical, obviously) ... There are just soooooooo many infinite combinations to how an actor was selected. Just because he was the original selection does NOT make him the best representation of the character nor the most qualified. But to you guys, the virtue of initial selection makes him the ultimate selection.

Now, there DO exist certain staples to characters that one MUST follow. Such as Mickey Mouses voice being almost identical in every version it is transferred to. But that is probably because that is a Universal staple. Goku's voice in Japan is one of those things that is NOT a staple of the character. Thank the lord that did not follow suit with faithfully having a voice actor who closely mirrors Masako Nozawa.



I love this forum and all of the members complex mind sets, that's why I've been here so long and continue to contribute to the community.

[DragonBallKing]

I think most general audiences would agree, the simple fact that FUNI's version is in the English language automatically makes it far superior. (Dumb way to put it, but it's true. General Audiences could care less)

Like for most, Louie Armstrong's version of 'La Vie En Rose' is superior to most people simply because the song is in a language they understand.

Grinds my gears that a lot of people here, owner included, doesn't accept these facts. There are movies I HAVE to watch in their native language, such as Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon(Chinese) or The Whaling(Korean), or RAW(French), simply because it is recorded in the native language with the performance of the actor providing BOTH voicing and the visual acting simultaneously. You lose all emotion in scenes that are dubbed simply because the voice doesn't fit the actor well, or because the mouths/facial expressions don't match the tone of voice.

But when it comes to anime, and cartoons, the intent of the original actors language is irrelevant to its perception in other countries and languages. I think anime and cartoons more than any other medium are open to interpretation and changes are necessary to adapt to specific language barriers and/or personas. Everybody here pretends as if every actor on the Japanese cast was picked from a needle in a haystack, one in a million actor that was only picked because he was the absolute embodiment of the character. You guys want to pretend there's no politics, seniority, or favoritism when it comes to Toei's actors selection process? You don't think actors were picked because one was a friend to the producer, the other was a recommendation, the other did a 'favor'' or maybe one bought his way in(all hypothetical, obviously) ... There are just soooooooo many infinite combinations to how an actor was selected. Just because he was the original selection does NOT make him the best representation of the character nor the most qualified. But to you guys, the virtue of initial selection makes him the ultimate selection.

First of all I'm not a sub purist but I like to enjoy the original language for most things solely for the reason that it's the first version. I don't glorify the Japanese cast as perfect they are capable of giving bad performances just as much as any dub. I can enjoy dubs as a secondary version of the series and still get enjoyment from it as well.

In terms of dub hate the Dragon Ball community on this site is relatively accepting of those who even prefer the old Funi dub, compared to other anime fandoms that will stone you If you so much as mention the word "dub" without the words "ew" and "sucks" right next to it. The kinds of people who refuse to give a dub the time of day are actually rare on this site.

Believe me, I've experienced first hand how ignorant and delusional some purist's can be about Japanese cartoon's, don't let it bother you.

[Ripper 30]

I think most general audiences would agree, the simple fact that FUNI's version is in the English language automatically makes it far superior. (Dumb way to put it, but it's true. General Audiences could care less)

Like for most, Louie Armstrong's version of 'La Vie En Rose' is superior to most people simply because the song is in a language they understand.

Grinds my gears that a lot of people here, owner included, doesn't accept these facts. There are movies I HAVE to watch in their native language, such as Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon(Chinese) or The Whaling(Korean), or RAW(French), simply because it is recorded in the native language with the performance of the actor providing BOTH voicing and the visual acting simultaneously. You lose all emotion in scenes that are dubbed simply because the voice doesn't fit the actor well, or because the mouths/facial expressions don't match the tone of voice.

But when it comes to anime, and cartoons, the intent of the original actors language is irrelevant to its perception in other countries and languages. I think anime and cartoons more than any other medium are open to interpretation and changes are necessary to adapt to specific language barriers and/or personas. Everybody here pretends as if every actor on the Japanese cast was picked from a needle in a haystack, one in a million actor that was only picked because he was the absolute embodiment of the character. You guys want to pretend there's no politics, seniority, or favoritism when it comes to Toei's actors selection process? You don't think actors were picked because one was a friend to the producer, the other was a recommendation, the other did a 'favor'' or maybe one bought his way in(all hypothetical, obviously) ... There are just soooooooo many infinite combinations to how an actor was selected. Just because he was the original selection does NOT make him the best representation of the character nor the most qualified. But to you guys, the virtue of initial selection makes him the ultimate selection.

Now, there DO exist certain staples to characters that one MUST follow. Such as Mickey Mouses voice being almost identical in every version it is transferred to. But that is probably because that is a Universal staple. Goku's voice in Japan is one of those things that is NOT a staple of the character. Thank the lord that did not follow suit with faithfully having a voice actor who closely mirrors Masako Nozawa.



I love this forum and all of the members complex mind sets, that's why I've been here so long and continue to contribute to the community.

DBZ in a English is simply a fail adaption. They changed Script, Music and Added unnecessary lines when the scenes were supposed to be silent that's not how a dub is done.When A is heavily altered and turned into B, and someone only likes B, then they're not a fan of A. Simple as that. That's not putting anyone down or "bullying" them. That's just making an observation.
It is Toriyama who wrote the Dragon Ball so he is the one who knows the Character of Gokū and the type of voice which would suit goku so yes his decision does matter whether it's because of politics or whatever America didn't created Dragon Ball but dubbed it so they know less than the Original creators. Also I disagree on your opinion about anime and cartoons being open to interpretation and changes are necessary to adapt to specific language barriers. As Dragon Ball isn't that complex of a show and can be faithfully adapted and Latino Dub and Kai English Dub are example of this.
In American cartoons it's pretty common to recast voice actors for new seasons of a show but in Japan it is not.

[Bansho64]

I think most general audiences would agree, the simple fact that FUNI's version is in the English language automatically makes it far superior. (Dumb way to put it, but it's true. General Audiences could care less)

Sure. Let's go with that.

Grinds my gears that a lot of people here, owner included, doesn't accept these facts.

You mean that it grinds your gears that some of us don't share the same thoughts that you do.

Everybody here pretends as if every actor on the Japanese cast was picked from a needle in a haystack, one in a million actor that was only picked because he was the absolute embodiment of the character.

This is not in any way true. Especially considering that amount of dub fans on this site.

[VegettoEX]

Bardo117, you keep talking about things that are completely unrelated to anything I mentioned in my post (except for that one line at the very end, which I very specifically wrote was separate and independent from the entire rest of what I was actually talking about).

You keep getting hung up on liking what you like.

Which I said is totally fine.

Which is also not even remotely what I was talking about, however. I don't care if you like one version over another. I don't care if you like some music more than other music. I don't care if you like adjusted scripts. I really, truly, honestly, I guarantee you I'm not losing sleep at night if you like that stuff.

What actually "grinds my gears" (so to speak), however, is when people keep talking about all that stuff when no-one else is and the conversation otherwise had absolutely nothing to do with that dub and by introducing that dub to the conversation it completely sidelines everything else that was going on and requires that everyone stop and explain all the things that were changed and why that's not relevant to what else is being discussed because someone somehow feels marginalized for liking some other popular version of the show.

[Bardo117]

Wait a minute... I specifically called out that Fans who think the Japanese dub is superior by default of being the original. Every point of my posts addresses this fact!


Nobody is losing sleep over any of this, lol but it's still a discussing worth having I think.

[Bansho64]

Wait a minute... I specifically called out that Fans who think the Japanese dub is superior by default of being the original. Every point of my posts addresses this fact!

No, you said "you guys" and "everybody here". You're getting your own arguments mixed up.

[Cure Dragon 255]

Yeah you even said "The Owner" as in Vegetto EX, Bardo.