Does Funimation really treat Dragonball that bad?

[Onikage725]

Except it doesn't fit and the acting was horrible.

An 80's cartoon with bad acting?! SAY IT AIN'T SO

Actually the 80's cartoon has fairly good acting.

It's the late 90's/early 00's dub that has the bad acting.

[MajinVejitaXV]

Remember, by Raditz death, we know that Piccolo isn't quite the hardcore demon he plays himself out to be.

Too bad that (in the dub) at Kaio's he got into a horrible habit of chain-smoking Marlboro Reds ;p

-Corey

[Lavender Saiyan]

Very cute my friend. Come on, he doesn't sound like some chain smoker. He sounds like a demonic alien.

[MajinVejitaXV]

Very cute my friend. Come on, he doesn't sound like some chain smoker. He sounds like a demonic alien.

Sabat? Demonic alien? I sincerely disagree.

-Corey

[jjgp1112]

Here's how I see it: Drummond was better for Saiyan and Namek saga Vegeta because his squeaky high-pitched voice fit the whole "midget-villain" character. After that, I think Sabat was better.

[Onikage725]

McNeil brought Piccolo to life. o_O Dude, he actually made Piccolo sound like the cold, hard "demon" he claimed himself to be.

I agree, there's no doubt in my mind that McNeil does sound more evil and demonic. The problem for me is, Piccolo isn't quite the crazed demon that his father was. I think McNeil would be better suited for King Piccolo. Piccolo Jr. is actually quite smarter and more of a tactition. He uses his brains a lot even before becoming a good guy. Sabat's voice can make Piccolo sound smarter and more wise. Like he really is.

When Sabat was playing the wiser Piccolo, later in the series, more mellow, he was actually half-decent in my opinon. And I also liked him a lot as Daimaou. And this is coming from someone who is blatantly on record for being anti-Sabat's Piccolo.

It's just that for a good chunk of Z, Piccolo wasn't the great guy the dub softened him into. Saban, having not aired Dragon ball or having any context to work with for him, built him into this Wolverine-ish character (how fitting that years later McNeil would go on to use his Piccolo voice for Wolverine). But Piccolo, while not quite as outright cruel as his "father," was still a dick. He's a villain forced to work with heroes pretty much until he fuses with Nail (the only thing binding him to the heroes after his death is his soft spot for Gohan). After fusing with Nail he softens considerably and shifts more into anti-hero. And when he decides to fuse with Kami, he becomes a full on heroic figure. He compeltely sheds his old demonic persona. Its actually an interesting contrast to Vegeta. Piccolo has this *twitch* moment where he looks at all his former enemies turned long-time allies and he's like "when the hell did I tell you we were friends?" But then he pulls a Spike (from Buffy) so to speak and goes off to make the final leap into the good guy role. When Vegeta had that moment, he... basically resurrected Buu. But I digress.

Like I said, watching the dub the first time out (I haven't seen this scene re-dubbed yet, so let me know if its different) when Piccolo throws Gohan at the mountain to show him his powers it doesn't even seem lethal. It's like "I'll prove to you that you have powers" is the vibe. In the Japanese version it's more like "if you can't use your power, you're of no use to me. So blow up that mountain or die." There are small shifts here and their in the dialogue. Most of the time before hsi fusion with Nail, Piccolo will do things like think of himself as Piccolo-Sama, display a "when this space pirate bullshit is over I'm gonna rule this planet" attitude, and generally think of the Z Senshi as strictly allies of convenience (not friends in the slightest). He's far more respectful in both dubs overall. Yet for some reason when we hit the Cell Saga, Sabat's got him screaming all the time like some drill instructor on a power trip.

I just thought of a prime example- Piccolo vs Gero. In the original he says some stuff about not being merciful (I dont remember the exact exchange). In the dub he calls him a friend, tries to relate Gero's motivations to his own past, and even lectures him on learning the error of his ways.

Me watching: My friend? One day you'll learn? Is this before or after you kill him?? (I know he doesnt, but it wasnt for a lack of trying).

Chris Sabat does the tactician thing well.
Scott McNeil does the spawn-of-the-devil thing well.
Neither is the greatest at the others end of the spectrum (listening to Buu Saga McNeil is a little underwhelming).
Toshio Furikawa does both equally well.

Actually, take a gander at some of the clips now floating around regarding the European dub. It seems like McNeil's the only one who never got rusty with his character and actually does a damn good job of recreating Piccolo.

I have seen quite a few Ocean Dub clips later on. There's a slight change, but I believe Sabat captures this better. Remember, by Raditz death, we know that Piccolo isn't quite the hardcore demon he plays himself out to be.

Not really. In the dub initially (and this is the characterization and script that the UUE mostly went by) he wasn't really acting like a hardcore demon to begin with. Furthermore, the guy had just casually killed Goku without batting an eyelash (granted, he knew he'd be back). Our first indication that he was different was when Kami comments on the fact that Raditz's soul passed on to the afterlife, and that Piccolo while still decidedly evil, had lost a bit of the outright malisciousness he once had. In the dub, this was replaced by some line about him teaming up with Goku and training Gohan, therefore he must be good now (far from an exact quote, but that was the basic idea).

[jjgp1112]

Chris Sabat's voice that he did for Piccolo back when he first started playing him in the Frieza saga, was more of the anti-hero type. he sounded really good. (minus the whole YES! YES! YES! I CAN WIN! garbage)

[Super Sonic]

Master Roshi in movie 2 was terrible, but that's not the same guy who voiced him in the series. I've heard Roshi in Japanese and I agree he's awesome. The Funi version of Kaio sucks compared to the ocean version, I thought the ocean version's actor could do the serious parts pretty well.

Have to go with Mr. McFarland as he was in my opinion, great as a dirty old man. Mr. Corlett, couldn't be a dirty old man.

Mr. Sabat's Piccolo as I said before was better when he was evil. Heck, his King Piccolo voice was great too. Similar to regular Piccolo, but more mature and sinister. And if any of you guys don't have issues watching shojo anime, check out Fruits Basket. He rocks as Ayame.

I like to add, to this quasie "FUNimation/Saban" topic, is the basterdization of "Samurai Pizza Cats" it seems like they watch the show with the sound off, and created there own lines, sorta like the show "MXC".

Um...cause it was in mute, so to speak. They weren't given ANY transcripts to work with for translation purposes. So they had to recreate the whole show from scratch.

But who cares? That was one of the few cases where messing with a dub was BRILLIANT and hilarious.

True. Also some may forget, Saban was responsible for the greatest comic-based cartoon outside of the DCAU: X-Men.

[Thanos6]

I'd have to say Spider-Man of the same era was just above X-Men.

[Lavender Saiyan]

Very cute my friend. Come on, he doesn't sound like some chain smoker. He sounds like a demonic alien.

Sabat? Demonic alien? I sincerely disagree.

-Corey

Well, you have your opinion and I have mine.

It's just that for a good chunk of Z, Piccolo wasn't the great guy the dub softened him into.

The Dub may have changed some things. But really, once Piccolo sacraficed himself, he was a good guy. He tried to blow it off when Krillin made those comments about being friends. But Krillin knew it was bullshit. Why did Krillin know? Because of the way Piccolo acted, it certainly was not evil or demonic.

[MajinVejitaXV]

[Well, you have your opinion and I have mine.

Yes, and mine is that everyone can do such a good Sabacollo because it's a horrible acting job. Seriously.

-Corey

[jjgp1112]

Very cute my friend. Come on, he doesn't sound like some chain smoker. He sounds like a demonic alien.

Sabat? Demonic alien? I sincerely disagree.

-Corey

Well, you have your opinion and I have mine.

It's just that for a good chunk of Z, Piccolo wasn't the great guy the dub softened him into.

The Dub may have changed some things. But really, once Piccolo sacraficed himself, he was a good guy. He tried to blow it off when Krillin made those comments about being friends. But Krillin knew it was bullshit. Why did Krillin know? Because of the way Piccolo acted, it certainly was not evil or demonic.

Yeah, I remember reading it in the manga. It was after everyone got the shit kicked out of them by the Androids. He said, "Don't forget! I've been plotting to take over the world this whole time!". The way he said it, you could just tell that he was bullshitting.

Oh, Corey, did the text in your avatar derive from WeeklyTubeShow's youtube fandubs? Because only his Piccolo talks about his dick all the time.

[MajinVejitaXV]

Oh, Corey, did the text in your avatar derive from WeeklyTubeShow's youtube fandubs? Because only his Piccolo talks about his dick all the time.

Yep!

-Corey

[Rocketman]

I'd have to say Spider-Man of the same era was just above X-Men.

I miss that show so bad. Release the damn thing on DVD!

[Thanos6]

I'd have to say Spider-Man of the same era was just above X-Men.

I miss that show so bad. Release the damn thing on DVD!

My friend, that's what comic conventions are for; the giant tables of DVDs of things yet unreleased...

*lovingly pats his complete collections of both X-Men and Spidey*

[Rocketman]

*lovingly pats his complete collections of both X-Men and Spidey*

O_O WANT.

[Thanos6]

*lovingly pats his complete collections of both X-Men and Spidey*

O_O WANT.

My friend, if I get a DVD burner soon, and you're willing to pay costs of shipping...

[Rocketman]

My friend, if I get a DVD burner soon, and you're willing to pay costs of shipping...

... I love you

[Lavender Saiyan]

Yes, and mine is that everyone can do such a good Sabacollo because it's a horrible acting job. Seriously.

And yet Sabat is the one who's making the money doing the voice. Seriously, you need to get over yourself. I mean is it necisary to be so harsh? The Dub started out with terrible acting, we all know this. But it's not that way anymore, Sabat is a superb actor and a superb Piccolo.

[Onikage725]

The Dub may have changed some things. But really, once Piccolo sacraficed himself, he was a good guy. He tried to blow it off when Krillin made those comments about being friends. But Krillin knew it was bullshit. Why did Krillin know? Because of the way Piccolo acted, it certainly was not evil or demonic.

Yeah, but that was in full-blown anti-hero mode, preparing to shed any evil left in him whatsoever.

That's sort of why I made a comparison to Spike on Buffy. At first, he was joined with the good guys out of circumstance (first to combat the greater threat of Angelus, later because of the chip implanted in his head to keep him from harming humans). Eventually, he grows sweet on Buffy, and even takes on an affectionate older-brother role with Dawn. Now at this point, Spike is pretty much full on a Scooby. He fights their fights, goes to many of their meetings, is a cast regular. But despite this, he also has scorn for most of them (especially Xander), and is fully capable of such acts as murder and rape when circumstances present themselves. But his evolution takes him to a point where such actions disgust him, and he seeks the means to gain his mortal soul to help better regulate those baser urges. After this, he's the same basic character, but without the "killer on a leash" aspect.

Piccolo's growth is very similar. I've often wondered if Joss Whedon was a Dragon Ball fan because of this. Piccolo in the Saiyan Saga still dreams of owning the world once Nappa and Vegeta are gone. His sacrifice for Gohan seems to surprise himself as much as anyone. However, due to the increasing threat of external forces, he continually finds himself choosing to side with other earthlings (keeping in mind that he was born on Earth in that incanration and considers it his adopted world). Likewise, his fondness for Gohan makes it pretty clear he wouldn't hurt him, and his rivalry with Goku changes from hatred to respect.

But the fact is, he was still a jerk at least as far as his encounter with Nail. When talking to Nail, he speaks of going to help the others (I believe he referred to them as runts) with a certain bit of irony, and adds with an utter lack of compassion that Nail will excuse him for leaving him to die. Likewise, while deciding to have himself wished back before the others, he thinks of himself as Piccolo-sama, the kind of boastful honorific various villains use throughout the series (most notably himself, Vegeta, and Freeza). I mentioned earlier the scene where Piccolo is fighting Gero. Tenshinhan remarks how he's uneasy that both Vegeta and Piccolo have grown so strong, but is glad their on his side for the moment. Vegeta offers to finish #20 off, and Piccolo says no thanks. He adds that he is the embodiment of evil and is not soft like Goku (I'm paraphrasing from memory, so these arent exact quotes).

I realize that most of that was bluster by that point.

All I'm saying is that the dub removed or replaced (often with a random observation, inspirational comment, or lecture) almost every instance of him slipping into "the artist formerly known as Daimaou" mode. Acting like the character never grasped at the good 'ol days of killing old people in the woods for the hell of it changes his personality. In the dub it comes off like he's a balls to the wall HERO (albeit with a slight chip on his shoulder) from the moment he tag teamed with Goku.

EDIT: Out of curiousity, do you remember (or have on hand) the dubbed scene where Vegeta shows up to fight 19? I've only seen that once, back on Cartoon Network, but I remember the scene making me scratch my head. Like, it seemed like instead Piccolo being upset that Vegeta was stealing his thunder cuz he had been playing dead and was about to move, he said something about Vegeta being the one who had gotten in his way. It seemed at the time like he was almost implying that Vegeta had somehow bitchslapped him while offscreen, and that's why Gero had been able to hit him or something. I dunno. Does anyone remember?