About Juunanagou, and his Deaths...

Nijuukyuu · Post by **Nijuukyuu** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 3:33 pm

...He "dies" when absorbed by Cell, and really dies when Cell is blown up, then he dies later on when Buu blows the world up, right?

And in DragonBall GT, he dies, as Super Juunanagou, when Gokuu kills him.

That makes three deaths.

With the first one, he is wished back to life by Kuririn, with Shenlong's help, and is also wished back to life in the end of Z, by Porunga (is that correct? The name?)...

And a popular fan speculation is that Juunanagou was also wished back to life in the end of GT, however, there is no evidence to this.

I personally like to think he stayed dead... don't ask me why though... I just don't think he would need to be revived, especially since the creators didn't need him again as a villain, LOL.

But I was wondering if it could be possible... there was some rule about Shenlong only being able to revive people two times using Earth's DragonBalls, either that, or only being able to revive them after one death - if he was revived by Shenlong the first time, then Porunga the second time, could he be revived, by Shenlong?

Mind you, I don't exactly remember the rules of the Dragon Balls anymore, which brings up the question of how many times Kuririn has been revived, too... He died in DragonBall by Piccolo Daimao, then by Freeza in Z, then by Majin Buu when the world blew up, and again, in GT.

I think Kuririn was revived twice by Shenlong, and twice by Porunga... so I guess that means Juunanagou could've been revived, too?

Random thinking: When Juunanagou died, he must've been split from his evil counterpart, to go to Heaven, while the other went to Hell, if Juunanagou was revived, then Super Juunanagou could happen all over again.

I hope I wasn't confusing... or anything... and I hope I don't scare anyone with my No. 17 obsession.

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 4:16 pm

Shenron can only revive a person once. Krillin was revived by Shenron after he was killed by Tamborine. His other two deaths, against Freeza and against Buu, were 'undone' by Porunga. I don't know which dragon brought him back in GT, never seen that part, but it was likely Porunga.

Nijuukyuu · Post by **Nijuukyuu** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 4:29 pm

Xyex wrote:Shenron can only revive a person once. Krillin was revived by Shenron after he was killed by Tamborine. His other two deaths, against Freeza and against Buu, were 'undone' by Porunga. I don't know which dragon brought him back in GT, never seen that part, but it was likely Porunga.

Oh, that's right. The new Shenlong brought Kuririn back in GT, now I remember.

kaioken12 · Post by **kaioken12** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 5:25 pm

Nijuukyuu wrote:
Xyex wrote:Shenron can only revive a person once. Krillin was revived by Shenron after he was killed by Tamborine. His other two deaths, against Freeza and against Buu, were 'undone' by Porunga. I don't know which dragon brought him back in GT, never seen that part, but it was likely Porunga.
Oh, that's right. The new Shenlong brought Kuririn back in GT, now I remember.

Yeah, but on the other hand, what is GT anyway when talking about canon or logic?

I wouldn't think too much about it.
You could say that the "nice" #17 was brought back to life by Shenlong, because he was able to revive all persons this time even if they had died before and were revived by him.

There everyone can argue and in the end there are no logical evidences that could lead to a "right" answer - welcome to the world of DB GT

But anyway, I was always wondering:
Why is #17 considered to be a villain?
I am ignoring GT here (see reason above).
He was obviously revived by Porunga in DBZ or one of the last manga chapters. The dragon should only revive "good" people (where Vegeta and Goku are surprised that Vegeta is revived as well).

#17 is also revived and gives his energy for the Genkidama.
So I thought he was no villain anymore and like #18 had started some "normal"/"fun" life (just anything but killing people for fun).

Even if I _did_ count GT, there were some evidences that showed that his "good" nature was controlled by the new #17 and he had to do things he didn't want to.

So why should he be a villain?
Somebody knows about that?

Nijuukyuu · Post by **Nijuukyuu** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 7:52 pm

kaioken12 wrote:Yeah, but on the other hand, what is GT anyway when talking about canon or logic?
I wouldn't think too much about it.
You could say that the "nice" #17 was brought back to life by Shenlong, because he was able to revive all persons this time even if they had died before and were revived by him.

There everyone can argue and in the end there are no logical evidences that could lead to a "right" answer - welcome to the world of DB GT

Well, Akira Toriyama did help somewhat with GT, so it could be considered canon, by some... but it breaks a lot of rules, too, so I don't like to count it too canon. O_o

Hmm... plus in Toriyama's recent works, which relate to DBZ, he always shows the characters from the end of Z, and not GT, so yeah, good point. ^^

(That still doesn't make any sense for all those crazy fan speculations though.

Ah well, let them think what they think.)

kaioken12 wrote:But anyway, I was always wondering:
Why is #17 considered to be a villain?
I am ignoring GT here (see reason above).
He was obviously revived by Porunga in DBZ or one of the last manga chapters. The dragon should only revive "good" people (where Vegeta and Goku are surprised that Vegeta is revived as well).

#17 is also revived and gives his energy for the Genkidama.
So I thought he was no villain anymore and like #18 had started some "normal"/"fun" life (just anything but killing people for fun).

Even if I _did_ count GT, there were some evidences that showed that his "good" nature was controlled by the new #17 and he had to do things he didn't want to.

So why should he be a villain?
Somebody knows about that?

Juunanagou is definately a good guy, that's for sure --- I like to call him a rogue, since he does what he wants, and he's bad like that.

But if you're referring what I said would be a reason for him to be revived by the (GT) creators, it's because they would only want to use him as a villain, since they don't seem to care about Juunanagou, while Juuhachigou has more attention placed on her, because of being Kuririn's wife.

A little off topic, but somewhat related:
I read on Wikipedia, that Akira Toriyama had forgotten how to draw Lunch/Launch, and had to replace her with Juunanagou, at the end of the manga (not sure if that's true, or not, I can't find the source, seeing as Lunch lost her own page.

), but it makes some sense, since I believe Lunch's last cameo in the manga, she was in a forest/mountain area.

Of course, I might not even be correct on that, but that's what I remember seeing, on her last cameo section.

I'd appreciate it, if someone could find this source. ^^;

BrollysKin · Post by **BrollysKin** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 8:52 pm

What the hell is a Juunanagou?

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 8:58 pm

BrollysKin wrote:What the hell is a Juunanagou?

I think it's like a Jigawatt.

Nijuukyuu · Post by **Nijuukyuu** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 9:06 pm

LOL! I'm being honest when I say this, I'm really surprised most of you don't seem to know who, or 'what', "Juunanagou" is.

I'll break it down, into simple Japanese for you:

Juu = Ten

Nana = Seven (7 in Japanese has another word, too, I think it's "Shichi", but not positive right now.)

Gou = "Number"

In other words... "Juunanagou", means "Number Seventeen"... but I'm sure, anyone who was reading the topic could figure that out themselves.

Which makes me wonder, any of you ever visit Juunanagou's Temple? One of the first, if not best, "Android #17" fansites out there.

DNA · Post by **DNA** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 9:09 pm

The l33t way to refer to #17.

Nijuukyuu · Post by **Nijuukyuu** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 9:20 pm

DNA wrote:The l33t way to refer to #17.

Heh, it's actually common among Juunanagou fans. ^^

I had to check up what, "l33t", meant, since I'm not big on internet slangs, LOL.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 9:23 pm

DNA wrote:The l33t way to refer to #17.

"l33t" in this case meaning "dickish", yes?

DNA · Post by **DNA** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 9:25 pm

Yes :3

Captain Awesome · Post by **Captain Awesome** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 1:18 pm

I think writing "Juunanagou" instead of #17 is a little excessive, to me thats just as bad as writing "Torunkasu" and "Seru".

SonEric84 · Post by **SonEric84** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 1:24 pm

I don't see what the problem is, let him write it like that if he wants. Are you sure he was being a dick about it? Looked like he was just trying to explain since no one seemed to know. Sometimes it's hard to tell over the internet. Anyway...I don't really have much of an answer for your thread so I guess I didn't contribute much myself.

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 2:41 pm

Captain Awesome wrote:I think writing "Juunanagou" instead of #17 is a little excessive, to me thats just as bad as writing "Torunkasu" and "Seru".

I always thought it was a way to make it seem as if No.17 actually had a name, rather than just a number.

DNA · Post by **DNA** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 2:47 pm

It's just a number, just a number, nothing more, it's just a number in any language you can find Dragonball translated into. So yes, I think Captain Awesome is right on this, it is excessive. I don't even write Seventeen when I'm refering to him, #17 is about enough.

Thanos6 · Post by **Thanos6** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 3:02 pm

I read on Wikipedia, that Akira Toriyama had forgotten how to draw Lunch/Launch, and had to replace her with Juunanagou, at the end of the manga (not sure if that's true, or not, I can't find the source, seeing as Lunch lost her own page. Sad), but it makes some sense, since I believe Lunch's last cameo in the manga, she was in a forest/mountain area.

The version I heard is that he completely forgot about Lunch until the chapter was at the printer, THEN remembered her when it was too late, so he made sure to tell Toei to throw her in and what she should be doing.

Nijuukyuu · Post by **Nijuukyuu** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 3:03 pm

SonEric84 wrote:Looked like he was just trying to explain since no one seemed to know. Sometimes it's hard to tell over the internet.

Yes... I was just explaining it.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, or anything...

There isn't anything wrong with me preferring his Japanese spelling.

And to me, Juunanagou is more than just a number, he's my favourite character!

But please, people just forget about how I spell his name, and try more to answer the question, since I really don't want this to turn into some kind of flame war, and be locked.

SonEric84 · Post by **SonEric84** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 3:06 pm

See! So let's stop being so picky and as long as he's not romanizing the names then let him type what he wants and you can type whatever you want. They're both acceptable/correct.

Super 17 · Post by **Super 17** » Sun Sep 30, 2007 4:26 pm

Hey don't worry about me, I got wished back and living it good.