"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[TekTheNinja]

Except Cali isn't a Tsunderes. A Tsunderes is someone how acts like an asshole to hide their feelings, hence Vegeta. Cali doesn't act like asshole to hide anything, she acts like asshole to those she doesn't respect and warms up quickly when she does. Cali also does backup her talk since she called the Pride Troopers wimps and rung out four of them with Kale.

That's the closest thing she can be categorized into, and how do we know she isn't hiding her feelings or acting tough? She doesn't necessarily have to be at her attitude 24/7..
She does drop her attitude with Kale doesn't she..
Whatever you wanna call her you can, but that's most certainly a tsundere in my book..

She ain't a tsundere, she's just an asshole.

[Chuquita]

Except Cali isn't a Tsunderes. A Tsunderes is someone how acts like an asshole to hide their feelings, hence Vegeta. Cali doesn't act like asshole to hide anything, she acts like asshole to those she doesn't respect and warms up quickly when she does. Cali also does backup her talk since she called the Pride Troopers wimps and rung out four of them with Kale.

That's the closest thing she can be categorized into, and how do we know she isn't hiding her feelings or acting tough? She doesn't necessarily have to be at her attitude 24/7..
She does drop her attitude with Kale doesn't she..
Whatever you wanna call her you can, but that's most certainly a tsundere in my book..

She is just an idiot like most other Saiyans.

Ssj3 while fused? Sounds like Gotenks.

Maybe Caulifla isn't meant to be an analogue to Gokû. Maybe she's meant to be an analogue to Kid Trunks.

I am curious, why do the saiyans have to be a version of someone?
Can't she just be her own character?

They are but you can tell who 6 members of team Universe 6 are suppose to represent. Kid Trunks is definitely not represented.

I guess it's Kale's obvious "I can't believe it's not Brolli!" Brolli-ness that makes me think that Caulifla and Cabba are supposed to feel like counterpoints to people from Uni 7 the way Uni 6 also happens to have Whis and Beerus' sister and brother in the same exact job positions.

Caulifla feels more like a Uni 7 female saiyan with the exception of her lacking the classic heavier Toriyama saiyan body build.

She's headstrong and gifted like Kid Trunks, and she has a sidekick type character who tags along with her, but I guess that's where the similarities end.

[FortuneSSJ]

It's actually more along the lines of people not being a fan of that particular character type in general..
Tsunderes, especially ones who don't have the abilities to back up their hardy attitude aren't everyone's cup of tea..

Vegeta actually has a lot of fans... and he never backed up his arrogant attitude whenever he faced the big guns.

People are just salty to see how much forms Caulifla and Kale are getting quickly, even though they are new Saiyans from a new Universe where it's confirmed Saiyans evolved differently.

Younger characters learn something quicker to caught up is a common plot device and even written masterpieces ike HunterxHunter use that. That kind of writing exists in this franchise since DB episode 8, when Goku successfully did the Kamehameha wave on his first try and Roshi had to train for 50 years to mastered it. And now a lot of characters can do it.

Before saying stuff "It's so unfair these characters are getting something Goku worked so hard to get.", I think those people should look at this from another angle.

As for Super Saiyans, it stopped being something special since Cell arc. It was supposed to be Legend that only happens once in a millennium and then after Goku unlocked it, all the living Saiyans got it too. Super is just following what DBZ created. I also find funny when complaining about Caulifla getting SSJ2 those fans always use Gohan as example, because deep down they must know how Goku and Vegeta got it off-screen is not a good example for anyone.

[Kinokima]

Vegeta actually has a lot of fans... and he never backed up his arrogant attitude whenever he faced the big guns.

And as someone who loves Vegeta I certainly don't mind that Caulifla has a bit of an attitude, well I'll call it spunk.

But no Caulifla is definitely not a Tsundere like Vegeta is at all. They may have some similarities in personality but not that. Then again Vegeta didn't start out as Tsundere so you never know....

[TekTheNinja]

Kale and Caulifla are such Mary Sues that they somehow give off self-insert character vibes even though they're obviously not. They also overshadow Cabba who is a superior character that is somehow surpassed in power within minutes of meeting them.

[HeroR]

Vegeta actually has a lot of fans... and he never backed up his arrogant attitude whenever he faced the big guns.

People are just salty to see how much forms Caulifla and Kale are getting quickly, even though they are new Saiyans from a new Universe where it's confirmed Saiyans evolved differently.

Younger characters learn something quicker to caught up is a common plot device and even written masterpieces ike HunterxHunter use that. That kind of writing exists in this franchise since DB episode 8, when Goku successfully did the Kamehameha wave on his first try and Roshi had to train for 50 years to mastered it. And now a lot of characters can do it.

Before saying stuff "It's so unfair these characters are getting something Goku worked so hard to get.", I think those people should look at this from another angle.

As for Super Saiyans, it stopped being something special since Cell arc. It was supposed to be Legend that only happens once in a millennium and then after Goku unlocked it, all the living Saiyans got it too. Super is just following what DBZ created. I also find funny when complaining about Caulifla getting SSJ2 those fans always use Gohan as example, because deep down they must know how Goku and Vegeta got it off-screen is not a good example for anyone.

That went out the window when Gohan was introduced.

[TheMikado]

Vegeta actually has a lot of fans... and he never backed up his arrogant attitude whenever he faced the big guns.

And as someone who loves Vegeta I certainly don't mind that Caulifla has a bit of an attitude, well I'll call it spunk.

But no Caulifla is definitely not a Tsundere like Vegeta is at all. They may have some similarities in personality but not that. Then again Vegeta didn't start out as Tsundere so you never know....

Vegeta is my favorite character. Caulifa is well.. Look Vegeta was born the Prince of Saiyans, enslaved by Frieza, and embarrassed by a third rate saiyan who "stole" his birth right as a SSJ. And only realizes he has a chance to become SSJ by seeing his son from a post apocalyptic future turn SSJ and effortless slaughter Frieza. Two things he failed to do..

Caulifa tingles her back and goes SSJ. Vegeta was built up over a very long time period. Caulifa must be a one and done characters because they are speed running the Vegeta progression in a single arc. Why rush the characters growth if they were going to continue being around later...

[The gr]

Most of what you've said is true. I was mostly just venting my frustrations. I do find Frieza to be a spotlight hog though, in that I'd much rather the characters who've been getting shafted for all of Super getting some spotlight instead of just more Frieza nonsense. I also hate Frieza knocking out the only good universe 6 saiyan, who was another character I actually hoped would do well.

Is sad man,which character are you referring to that get shafted and why do you find him a spotlight stealer

Kale and Caulifla are such Mary Sues that they somehow give off self-insert character vibes even though they're obviously not. They also overshadow Cabba who is a superior character that is somehow surpassed in power within minutes of meeting them.

I did find caulifla surprassing him withing minute kinda odd,probaly her base form is really strong meanwhile in kale case of being stronger than cabba is really stupid

[Lord Beerus]

Kale and Caulifla are such Mary Sues that they somehow give off self-insert character vibes even though they're obviously not. They also overshadow Cabba who is a superior character that is somehow surpassed in power within minutes of meeting them.

People throw around the term "Mary Sue" so loosely it has no bearing. Caulilfa and Kale aren't Mary Sues by any stretch.

[The gr]

People throw around the term "Mary Sue" so loosely it has no bearing. Caulilfa and Kale aren't Mary Sues by any stretch.

True that term is only for fanfic character,i think canon sue is the more suitable word even then there none of these, that is the reason why i don't use these terms that often

[HeroR]

Kale and Caulifla are such Mary Sues that they somehow give off self-insert character vibes even though they're obviously not. They also overshadow Cabba who is a superior character that is somehow surpassed in power within minutes of meeting them.

People throw around the term "Mary Sue" so loosely it has no bearing. Caulilfa and Kale aren't Mary Sues by any stretch.

Seriously, Cali and Kale are not Mary Sues.

The most modern definition of Mary Sue since it changes with time, is a character that bend reality to serve the Sue. In this case, no one is falling over Cali and Kale talking about how great they are, how beautiful they are, or people acting OOC to character shrill them. Reality itself also doesn't bend for them, despite people claiming that they're getting Super Saiyan too fast.

Cali and Kale are just powerful characters who have evolved fast, and they're not even the strongest characters in the tournament. And I personally liked Cali and Cabba more than Cabba who is really bland.

People throw around the term "Mary Sue" so loosely it has no bearing. Caulilfa and Kale aren't Mary Sues by any stretch.

True that term is only for fanfic character,i think canon sue is the more suitable word idk that is the reason why i don't use these terms that often

Mary Sue can be applied to canon characters. For example, Bella Swan from Twilight is often classified as a Mary Sue.

[RedHeat]

It's actually more along the lines of people not being a fan of that particular character type in general..
Tsunderes, especially ones who don't have the abilities to back up their hardy attitude aren't everyone's cup of tea..

Vegeta actually has a lot of fans... and he never backed up his arrogant attitude whenever he faced the big guns.

People are just salty to see how much forms Caulifla and Kale are getting quickly, even though they are new Saiyans from a new Universe where it's confirmed Saiyans evolved differently.

Younger characters learn something quicker to caught up is a common plot device and even written masterpieces ike HunterxHunter use that. That kind of writing exists in this franchise since DB episode 8, when Goku successfully did the Kamehameha wave on his first try and Roshi had to train for 50 years to mastered it. And now a lot of characters can do it.

Before saying stuff "It's so unfair these characters are getting something Goku worked so hard to get.", I think those people should look at this from another angle.

As for Super Saiyans, it stopped being something special since Cell arc. It was supposed to be Legend that only happens once in a millennium and then after Goku unlocked it, all the living Saiyans got it too. Super is just following what DBZ created. I also find funny when complaining about Caulifla getting SSJ2 those fans always use Gohan as example, because deep down they must know how Goku and Vegeta got it off-screen is not a good example for anyone.

That's what fans of the characters have been saying all along. I understand not liking them from a subjective perspective (I hate Frieza for example, but I can't deny his character is at least pretty solid), but they're trying to fit in a world where the plot is stacked against them and as a result they get put on a bullet train. Can they be written better? Absolutely, as with any other character. But Kale and Caulifla are by no means unique in Dragon Ball and thus not terrible.

[Kinokima]

Vegeta actually has a lot of fans... and he never backed up his arrogant attitude whenever he faced the big guns.

And as someone who loves Vegeta I certainly don't mind that Caulifla has a bit of an attitude, well I'll call it spunk.

But no Caulifla is definitely not a Tsundere like Vegeta is at all. They may have some similarities in personality but not that. Then again Vegeta didn't start out as Tsundere so you never know....

Vegeta is my favorite character. Caulifa is well.. Look Vegeta was born the Prince of Saiyans, enslaved by Frieza, and embarrassed by a third rate saiyan who "stole" his birth right as a SSJ. And only realizes he has a chance to become SSJ by seeing his son from a post apocalyptic future turn SSJ and effortless slaughter Frieza. Two things he failed to do..

Caulifa tingles her back and goes SSJ. Vegeta was built up over a very long time period. Caulifa must be a one and done characters because they are speed running the Vegeta progression in a single arc. Why rush the characters growth if they were going to continue being around later...

Well sure I think Vegeta is a better developed character than Caulifla I can write pages and pages about Vegeta but it is a bit unfair to compare when Vegeta has been around for 100’s of episodes

And while I don’t think getting transformations so easily is the best writing I also don’t hate Caulifla for it.

I guess as for rushing it these transformations are old news now. Do have characters be relevant at all you kind of need them to be on a certain level.

[The gr]

Mary Sue can be applied to canon characters. For example, Bella Swan from Twilight is often classified as a Mary Sue.

Huh who knew even then people need to use legit terms to critize kale and caulifla which i have fallen a victim of this

I'm seeing more caulifla hate than kale,what an interesting turn of event

[HeroR]

And as someone who loves Vegeta I certainly don't mind that Caulifla has a bit of an attitude, well I'll call it spunk.

But no Caulifla is definitely not a Tsundere like Vegeta is at all. They may have some similarities in personality but not that. Then again Vegeta didn't start out as Tsundere so you never know....

Vegeta is my favorite character. Caulifa is well.. Look Vegeta was born the Prince of Saiyans, enslaved by Frieza, and embarrassed by a third rate saiyan who "stole" his birth right as a SSJ. And only realizes he has a chance to become SSJ by seeing his son from a post apocalyptic future turn SSJ and effortless slaughter Frieza. Two things he failed to do..

Caulifa tingles her back and goes SSJ. Vegeta was built up over a very long time period. Caulifa must be a one and done characters because they are speed running the Vegeta progression in a single arc. Why rush the characters growth if they were going to continue being around later...

Well sure I think Vegeta is a better developed character than Caulifla I can write pages and pages about Vegeta but it is a bit unfair to compare when Vegeta has been around for 100’s of episodes

And while I don’t think getting transformations so easily is the best writing I also don’t hate Caulifla for it.

I guess as for rushing it these transformations are old news now. Do have characters be relevant at all you kind of need them to be on a certain level.

I think it would be obvious that a character that has been around since the 80s would be more and better developed than a character introduced months ago, unless the older character is just flat like Tien.

Mary Sue can be applied to canon characters. For example, Bella Swan from Twilight is often classified as a Mary Sue.

Huh who knew,even then people need to use legit terms to critize kale and caulifla which i have fallen a victim of this

Cali and Kale don't really fall under any literature term. We can talk objectively if they're good or bad characters. Objectively, they're underdeveloped with Kale slowly fixing that. Cali is kind of one-note at the moment, but honestly so are most characters in Dragon Ball and I honestly don't expect huge development from a 48 minute tournament with 70 fighters when they're not the primary focused.

[Dbzfan94]

Kale and Caulifla are such Mary Sues that they somehow give off self-insert character vibes even though they're obviously not. They also overshadow Cabba who is a superior character that is somehow surpassed in power within minutes of meeting them.

People throw around the term "Mary Sue" so loosely it has no bearing. Caulilfa and Kale aren't Mary Sues by any stretch.

Mary Sue is a subjective term. And it's not really a stretch for people think that they are, (or at least show qualities of one)

[HeroR]

Mary Sue is a subjective term. And it's not really a stretch for people think that they are, (or at least show qualities of one)

If people throw a word willy-nilly, it loses all its meaning, especially for something as shallow as 'they get power-ups too fast'. This is actually part of the reason no one takes the term 'Mary Sue' seriously anymore since people used it to describe characters they don't like.

[TheMikado]

And as someone who loves Vegeta I certainly don't mind that Caulifla has a bit of an attitude, well I'll call it spunk.

But no Caulifla is definitely not a Tsundere like Vegeta is at all. They may have some similarities in personality but not that. Then again Vegeta didn't start out as Tsundere so you never know....

Vegeta is my favorite character. Caulifa is well.. Look Vegeta was born the Prince of Saiyans, enslaved by Frieza, and embarrassed by a third rate saiyan who "stole" his birth right as a SSJ. And only realizes he has a chance to become SSJ by seeing his son from a post apocalyptic future turn SSJ and effortless slaughter Frieza. Two things he failed to do..

Caulifa tingles her back and goes SSJ. Vegeta was built up over a very long time period. Caulifa must be a one and done characters because they are speed running the Vegeta progression in a single arc. Why rush the characters growth if they were going to continue being around later...

Well sure I think Vegeta is a better developed character than Caulifla I can write pages and pages about Vegeta but it is a bit unfair to compare when Vegeta has been around for 100’s of episodes

And while I don’t think getting transformations so easily is the best writing I also don’t hate Caulifla for it.

I guess as for rushing it these transformations are old news now. Do have characters be relevant at all you kind of need them to be on a certain level.

Umm no, they could have just made saiyans from that universe unique and not have any transformations at all. Just make their base forms super powerful like what Gohan's ultimate form was. It would have made sense and you already went through the trouble of saying they evolved without tails. Anyway the point I'm making is there's no reason to rush through these characters unless they don't have plans for them in the future. It's really suspicious and makes me think they aren't going to be around in the story proper after this arc.

[BlueBasilisk]

Umm no, they could have just made saiyans from that universe unique and not have any transformations at all. Just make their base forms super powerful like what Gohan's ultimate form was. It would have made sense and you already went through the trouble of saying they evolved without tails. Anyway the point I'm making is there's no reason to rush through these characters unless they don't have plans for them in the future. It's really suspicious and makes me think they aren't going to be around in the story proper after this arc.

Or they could be rushing them now to bring them up to relevance so they could be used again in future arcs and not fall into that Future Trunks trap again. That happened a year ago and it's still providing a headache. I mean, if you wanna push someone through the power band quickly, a tournament where existence itself is on the line is about the best opportunity for it.

[HeroR]

Umm no, they could have just made saiyans from that universe unique and not have any transformations at all. Just make their base forms super powerful like what Gohan's ultimate form was. It would have made sense and you already went through the trouble of saying they evolved without tails. Anyway the point I'm making is there's no reason to rush through these characters unless they don't have plans for them in the future. It's really suspicious and makes me think they aren't going to be around in the story proper after this arc.

The U6 Saiyans not having Super Saiyan really doesn't make sense since even the tailless hybrids have Super Saiyan and even get it easier than the pure-blooded Saiyans. Gohan's Ultimate form is just something he got from an old witch ritual.