"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[snpaa]

I wrote an entire post about why Cali and Kale don’t fit the most modern definition of Mary Sue or even the old definition. This isn’t a “nitpick”, these are people using literate term wrong and using it as short hand for, ‘characters I don’t like’.

On the “it's like toriyama drew a sickly starving african child with protruding rib cage and a head bigger then there torso and presented to me as if it was some badass character“.

First, Cali doesn’t look sickly at all if you think she does, you never seen a truly sickly person. And Toriyama most of the time don’t draw his characters to look like ‘badasses’ despite their power. Case in point, Beerus and Whis.

1. Link to it, I've got time to read it .

2.Yes she does look sickly , her body looks as if she has muscle atrophy, if you saw anybody with caulifla's body proportions on the street you would not think that they are in peak health condition.

3.beerus was introduced as a deity type non human creature with no qualms about destroying planets and civilizations , beerus doesn't fit the badass mold he fits the otherwordly creature mold. The u6 saiyans on the other hand are more of an already overrepresented race of mortals that we have seen before being depicted as being muscular and at least 5 feet talk, even goten and trunks were depicted with the same stacked build.U6 saiyans on the other hand are completely devoid of muscles (except for brolina) and have a minuscule stature. The point I'm making here is that toriyama before super made an effort to make his saiyans to look somewhat appropriately appealing for a battle manga .

[namekiansaiyan]

If you’re big criticism of any character is that they transformations too fast and therefore make them less special, that’s a lousy and petty argument for any character for the reasons I named. Doubly so if you don’t know the source material.

If don’t like a character because of their personality, that’s a different matter.

They don't deserve it, simple as that.

That’s a matter of opinion, not a fact. I mean someone like Piccolo ate people to get the power he has.

They were desperate situations and ended up with 2 people not existing anymore.

Caulifla just says she is going to get a power up and it somehow appears.

[Li'l Lemmy]

I hope that after this arc we go back to basics for awhile. None of this multiverse shit where too much is happening with too many people all at once in a gigantic shitshow of confusion. Yeah, go ahead and pick it up later- you can't put the genie back in the bottle, an' all that- but give me a chance to breathe with a small, local story that focuses on the original cast, or even just characters who were neglected this arc. I mean, crap. You can even give Yamcha something to do and it'd be cool.

I feel like EoZ is starting to look like a joke.

[Dbzfan94]

I hope that after this arc we go back to basics for awhile. None of this multiverse shit where too much is happening with too many people all at once in a gigantic shitshow of confusion. Yeah, go ahead and pick it up later- you can't put the genie back in the bottle, an' all that- but give me a chance to breathe with a small, local story that focuses on the original cast, or even just characters who were neglected this arc. I mean, crap. You can even give Yamcha something to do and it'd be cool.

I feel like EoZ is starting to look like a joke.

End of Z is a dream for me now.

[HeroR]

I wrote an entire post about why Cali and Kale don’t fit the most modern definition of Mary Sue or even the old definition. This isn’t a “nitpick”, these are people using literate term wrong and using it as short hand for, ‘characters I don’t like’.

On the “it's like toriyama drew a sickly starving african child with protruding rib cage and a head bigger then there torso and presented to me as if it was some badass character“.

First, Cali doesn’t look sickly at all if you think she does, you never seen a truly sickly person. And Toriyama most of the time don’t draw his characters to look like ‘badasses’ despite their power. Case in point, Beerus and Whis.

1. Link to it, I've got time to read it .

2.Yes she does look sickly , her body looks as if she has muscle atrophy, if you saw anybody with caulifla's body proportions on the street you would not think that they are in peak health condition.

3.beerus was introduced as a deity type non human creature with no qualms about destroying planets and civilizations , beerus doesn't fit the badass mold he fits the otherwordly creature mold. The u6 saiyans on the other hand are more of an already overrepresented race of mortals that we have seen before being depicted as being muscular and at least 5 feet talk, even goten and trunks were depicted with the same stacked build.U6 saiyans on the other hand are completely devoid of muscles (except for brolina) and have a minuscule stature. The point I'm making here is that toriyama before super made an effort to make his saiyans to look somewhat appropriately appealing for a battle manga .

It’s on this thread only a few pages back.

Dragon Ball characters don’t used realistic proportions, so saying how Cali would looked in real life is silly. Beerus looks more ‘sickly’ than her since you actually see Beerus’ ribs.

See Vegeta in the Saiyan Saga. Also, U6 Saiyans are not U7 Saiyans.

They don't deserve it, simple as that.

That’s a matter of opinion, not a fact. I mean someone like Piccolo ate people to get the power he has.

They were desperate situations and ended up with 2 people not existing anymore.

Caulifla just says she is going to get a power up and it somehow appears.

Doesn’t mean he ‘deserve it’ if we’re throwing that word around.

And given how U6 is in danger of being erased, I would think the Saiyans getting stronger fast is ‘desperate’ compared to the danger Piccolo faced.

[Li'l Lemmy]

I hope that after this arc we go back to basics for awhile. None of this multiverse shit where too much is happening with too many people all at once in a gigantic shitshow of confusion. Yeah, go ahead and pick it up later- you can't put the genie back in the bottle, an' all that- but give me a chance to breathe with a small, local story that focuses on the original cast, or even just characters who were neglected this arc. I mean, crap. You can even give Yamcha something to do and it'd be cool.

I feel like EoZ is starting to look like a joke.

End of Z is a dream for me now.

I'm absolutely baffled that DBS is somehow being written to fit EoZ, given how much one seems to shit on the other.

But eh, wrong time, wrong thread.

[precita]

I hope that after this arc we go back to basics for awhile. None of this multiverse shit where too much is happening with too many people all at once in a gigantic shitshow of confusion. Yeah, go ahead and pick it up later- you can't put the genie back in the bottle, an' all that- but give me a chance to breathe with a small, local story that focuses on the original cast, or even just characters who were neglected this arc. I mean, crap. You can even give Yamcha something to do and it'd be cool.

I feel like EoZ is starting to look like a joke.

After this arc I bet they'll be 10 slice of life fillers like before.

Then I fully expect EOZ. Trunks, Goten, Uub and to a lesser extent Pan will get tons of focus. Out with the old, in with the new.

[Li'l Lemmy]

A man can dream.

[namekiansaiyan]

That’s a matter of opinion, not a fact. I mean someone like Piccolo ate people to get the power he has.

They were desperate situations and ended up with 2 people not existing anymore.

Caulifla just says she is going to get a power up and it somehow appears.

Doesn’t mean he ‘deserve it’ if we’re throwing that word around.

And given how U6 is in danger of being erased, I would think the Saiyans getting stronger fast is ‘desperate’ compared to the danger Piccolo faced.

Any character should be able to get stronger then. I also didn't bring Piccolo in to this discussion either and I prefer Piccolo training to get stronger instead of fusion so we don't lose any other character.

I hope that after this arc we go back to basics for awhile. None of this multiverse shit where too much is happening with too many people all at once in a gigantic shitshow of confusion. Yeah, go ahead and pick it up later- you can't put the genie back in the bottle, an' all that- but give me a chance to breathe with a small, local story that focuses on the original cast, or even just characters who were neglected this arc. I mean, crap. You can even give Yamcha something to do and it'd be cool.

I feel like EoZ is starting to look like a joke.

After this arc I bet they'll be 10 slice of life fillers like before.

Then I fully expect EOZ. Trunks, Goten, Uub and to a lesser extent Pan will get tons of focus. Out with the old, in with the new.

The old is going nowhere. The only new we are probably getting is from all the other universes.

[HeroR]

They were desperate situations and ended up with 2 people not existing anymore.

Caulifla just says she is going to get a power up and it somehow appears.

Doesn’t mean he ‘deserve it’ if we’re throwing that word around.

And given how U6 is in danger of being erased, I would think the Saiyans getting stronger fast is ‘desperate’ compared to the danger Piccolo faced.

Any character should be able to get stronger then. I also didn't bring Piccolo in to this discussion either and I prefer Piccolo training to get stronger instead of fusion so we don't lose any other character.

I hope that after this arc we go back to basics for awhile. None of this multiverse shit where too much is happening with too many people all at once in a gigantic shitshow of confusion. Yeah, go ahead and pick it up later- you can't put the genie back in the bottle, an' all that- but give me a chance to breathe with a small, local story that focuses on the original cast, or even just characters who were neglected this arc. I mean, crap. You can even give Yamcha something to do and it'd be cool.

I feel like EoZ is starting to look like a joke.

After this arc I bet they'll be 10 slice of life fillers like before.

Then I fully expect EOZ. Trunks, Goten, Uub and to a lesser extent Pan will get tons of focus. Out with the old, in with the new.

The old is going nowhere. The only new we are probably getting is from all the other universes.

Most of the characters did get stronger, so what are you arguing about?

[Noah]

I feel like EoZ is starting to look like a joke.

And indeed is if we take into account everything that happened in Super. I'm really curious of what will be their take when they reach to that point eventually.

[Dbzfan94]

I hope that after this arc we go back to basics for awhile. None of this multiverse shit where too much is happening with too many people all at once in a gigantic shitshow of confusion. Yeah, go ahead and pick it up later- you can't put the genie back in the bottle, an' all that- but give me a chance to breathe with a small, local story that focuses on the original cast, or even just characters who were neglected this arc. I mean, crap. You can even give Yamcha something to do and it'd be cool.

I feel like EoZ is starting to look like a joke.

After this arc I bet they'll be 10 slice of life fillers like before.

Then I fully expect EOZ. Trunks, Goten, Uub and to a lesser extent Pan will get tons of focus. Out with the old, in with the new.

As much I hate to say this, I'm starting to feel Cauli/Kale/Cabba are slowly being built up to replace Trunks and Goten

[TekTheNinja]

Most of what you've said is true. I was mostly just venting my frustrations. I do find Frieza to be a spotlight hog though, in that I'd much rather the characters who've been getting shafted for all of Super getting some spotlight instead of just more Frieza nonsense. I also hate Frieza knocking out the only good universe 6 saiyan, who was another character I actually hoped would do well.

Is sad man,which character are you referring to that get shafted and why do you find him a spotlight stealer

I feel like I'd have an easier time describing who HASN'T been shafted. Of course I personally want spotlight on the humans, but I'd be cool with Gohan, Piccolo, Buu, Gotenks, or even one of the other dead villains having spotlight instead of Frieza. Frieza has had more than enough revivals and returns already. I'd Goku decided to revive Cell or something, at least that would have been original.

[TekTheNinja]

I hope that after this arc we go back to basics for awhile. None of this multiverse shit where too much is happening with too many people all at once in a gigantic shitshow of confusion. Yeah, go ahead and pick it up later- you can't put the genie back in the bottle, an' all that- but give me a chance to breathe with a small, local story that focuses on the original cast, or even just characters who were neglected this arc. I mean, crap. You can even give Yamcha something to do and it'd be cool.

I feel like EoZ is starting to look like a joke.

After this arc I bet they'll be 10 slice of life fillers like before.

Then I fully expect EOZ. Trunks, Goten, Uub and to a lesser extent Pan will get tons of focus. Out with the old, in with the new.

I mean, I hope that happens, but DBS always does the opposite of what I want, so even if they do go beyond EoZ, the kids will probably still be shafted so Goku can be the big hero even though he should take on a mentor role. Though why do you say Pan to a lesser extent? Because, well, I want Pan to go super saiyan dammit.

[Li'l Lemmy]

I hope that after this arc we go back to basics for awhile. None of this multiverse shit where too much is happening with too many people all at once in a gigantic shitshow of confusion. Yeah, go ahead and pick it up later- you can't put the genie back in the bottle, an' all that- but give me a chance to breathe with a small, local story that focuses on the original cast, or even just characters who were neglected this arc. I mean, crap. You can even give Yamcha something to do and it'd be cool.

I feel like EoZ is starting to look like a joke.

After this arc I bet they'll be 10 slice of life fillers like before.

Then I fully expect EOZ. Trunks, Goten, Uub and to a lesser extent Pan will get tons of focus. Out with the old, in with the new.

As much I hate to say this, I'm starting to feel Cauli/Kale/Cabba are slowly being built up to replace Trunks and Goten

Bite your tongue. Goten and Trunks are sons of the main characters, and in EoZ. The U6 trio is nowhere to be seen.

If those saiyans "replace" characters from the original cast, then I'll want nothing to do with this series.

[Dbzfan94]

Bite your tongue. Goten and Trunks are sons of the main characters, and in EoZ. The U6 trio is nowhere to be seen.

If those saiyans "replace" characters from the original cast, then I'll want nothing to do with this series.

I know it sounds absurd and I hope to god it doesnt happen. Goten is one of my favorite characters. And I too would be really mad.

But its just a feeling in my gut. With all this focus, (SSJ2, SSJ3, fusion and the future planet Sadala arc) it's clear they want nothing to do with Goten. Hell, look at Heroes. He's the only Saiyan at this point to not have gotten SS2 or SS3.

[Li'l Lemmy]

They seem to give Goten a little focus where the story allows for filleresque material. Toei at least seems to have some interest; otherwise we wouldn't have gotten the (admittedly lackluster) Copy-Vegeta arc. Toei is probably the only reason I get to see Goten at all in DBS, since I doubt that Toriyama has anything to do with the small character moments he's been afforded. My only guess is that he and Trunks are being "saved" for closer to EoZ, but if that's the case it sure would be nice to have some build up or growth ahead of time.

I don't feel as bad about the Heroes thing, since kid Trunks hasn't gotten anything either.

I think they should use the Sadala arc (or whatever arc comes next) to involve them again, even if it's in a peripheral role.

[Kinokima]

Well I want Vegeta and Goku to take Trunks and Goten to Planet Sadala. I do not want Goten & Trunks to be replaced. Please give me some father & son Saiyan bonding on Planet Sadala.

I mean they are their kids why would they be replaced?

[HeroR]

Bite your tongue. Goten and Trunks are sons of the main characters, and in EoZ. The U6 trio is nowhere to be seen.

If those saiyans "replace" characters from the original cast, then I'll want nothing to do with this series.

EOZ was just one moment we got to see just so we can see Goku leave with Uub. Saying because the U6 Saiyans are not in EOZ means they won't be important or even replaced certain characters is flawed. Doesn't help that Goten in EOZ wasn't training outside his dad forcing him since he discovered girls.

Well I want Vegeta and Goku to take Trunks and Goten to Planet Sadala. I do not want Goten & Trunks to be replaced. Please give me some father & son Saiyan bonding on Planet Sadala.

I mean they are their kids why would they be replaced?

I honestly don't see Goku having any interest in Sadala. He never had any interest in Saiyans before, he barely talked to Cabba.

[Kinokima]

I honestly don't see Goku having any interest in Sadala. I never had any interest in Saiyans before, he barely talked to Cabba.

Well maybe so but they won’t leave Goku out so he will have to come along. Any DB arc is going to include Goku.