Live Action Movie Discussion Thread

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.

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Post by Kaboom » Thu Oct 04, 2007 10:14 pm

Olivier Hague wrote:
Contra Deus wrote:I think it'll depend on what sort of tone the director and the rest will take with the film. Will it be the slapstick-humor/action/feel-good journey of the manga/anime or will it be the Smallville/Spiderman teen-angst of being a superhero in high school?
"their mutual attraction finally heats up during a training session."
Probably mostly on ChiChi's part, I'd imagine.

Goku: "Uh, ChiChi? What are you doing?"

ChiChi: "Here, Goku... Let me show you how it's done..."

Goku: "How WHAT'S done? I dun' get it... When do we start kicking?"
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Post by Chuquita » Thu Oct 04, 2007 10:28 pm

SSj Kaboom wrote:
Olivier Hague wrote:
Contra Deus wrote:I think it'll depend on what sort of tone the director and the rest will take with the film. Will it be the slapstick-humor/action/feel-good journey of the manga/anime or will it be the Smallville/Spiderman teen-angst of being a superhero in high school?
"their mutual attraction finally heats up during a training session."
Probably mostly on ChiChi's part, I'd imagine.

Goku: "Uh, ChiChi? What are you doing?"

ChiChi: "Here, Goku... Let me show you how it's done..."

Goku: "How WHAT'S done? I dun' get it... When do we start kicking?"

I certainly hope it'd be mostly on Chi-Chi's part.
Goku hitting on her would seem odd to me.



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Post by Contra Deus » Thu Oct 04, 2007 11:26 pm

Chuquita wrote:I certainly hope it'd be mostly on Chi-Chi's part.
Goku hitting on her would seem odd to me.



1000'th post! XD
I don't think Goku's ever hit on anyone in his life.

Hell, he's been an absentee husband for 90% of his marriage.

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Post by Anonymous Friend » Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:24 am

So what most people here are saying is that the only way we want Goku is as a complete idiot and dimwit?

Man, this is almost as bad as people wanting Future Gohan with only one arm.

Retarded Goku and handicapped Gohan ... what's this world coming to ...
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Post by Chuquita » Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:36 am

Anonymous Friend wrote:So what most people here are saying is that the only way we want Goku is as a complete idiot and dimwit?

Man, this is almost as bad as people wanting Future Gohan with only one arm.

Retarded Goku and handicapped Gohan ... what's this world coming to ...

Not retarded. o_O
Goku's an intellegent guy, I know that. What I'm concerned about is his sex drive. Though it would be funny animated, and while Goku does care about Chi-Chi, him spewing romance just doesn't seem like something I'd think Goku would do.
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Post by Sebastian (SB) » Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:56 am

Anonymous Friend wrote:So what most people here are saying is that the only way we want Goku is as a complete idiot and dimwit?

Man, this is almost as bad as people wanting Future Gohan with only one arm.
.....:x I take it you haven't read any Dragon Ball manga.
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Post by MisterFlashdude » Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:57 am

Anonymous Friend wrote:So what most people here are saying is that the only way we want Goku is as a complete idiot and dimwit?

Man, this is almost as bad as people wanting Future Gohan with only one arm.

Retarded Goku and handicapped Gohan ... what's this world coming to ...
Goku's not retarded, but he is, unarguably, uneducated. And yeah, a bit dimwitted, especially in Dragonball. The extent of Goku's schooling is Roshi giving him a few lessons in counting and reading.

After all, he did take quite a nasty blow to the head as a baby.

It's not just the way we 'want' him, it's the way he is.

And as for Goku and Chi-chi? I'm not sure there's a single allusion to Goku actually caring about Chi-chi at all, throughout all of Dragonball. I mean, he was kind of screwed into marrying her and seemed annoyed with her trying to hold his arm at the Budokai. ('No grabbing!')
How these two conceived two children, I can't imagine.

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Post by Snail » Fri Oct 05, 2007 1:43 am

Well they did kiss in a mature fashion during the Android arc?

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Post by MisterFlashdude » Fri Oct 05, 2007 1:53 am

Snail wrote:Well they did kiss in a mature fashion during the Android arc?
Did they? I'll take your word for it rather than flipping through my volumes.

Though I was trying to base my scope on what they were (might be) putting in the "movie"... All scraps and torn up bits of (Pre-Z) Dragonball, which this "movie" seems to be based on.
Even so, on the grand scale, those examples are few, far between, and short-lived.

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Post by Stridex » Fri Oct 05, 2007 2:51 am

As this back and forth on character development hashes out, I'd like to point back to the source:

[GOKU] 18 years old, Goku is considered uncool and unpopular at school, but he is in fact an extremely talented martial arts fighter who gets rigorous training from his grandfather, Gohan. After the death of his grandfather by the evil Lord Piccolo, Goku finds his destiny in his grandfather's dying request that he find Master Roshi and gather all seven Dragon Balls (of which he has one) in order to prevent Piccolo from succeeding in his desire to use the dragonballs to take over the world.


This fundamentally changes the character. At what point has Goku been painted in any light of "uncool" or "unpopular", EVER? This character has ALWAYS been FAR above any notions as such. His FEW friends consider him to be naive and sometimes gross. But usually, they're blown away by his fighting power (and appetite).

What may end up being worse is a motivation change in Goku. According to Toriyama himself, “When I stopped and thought of Goku, I realized the foremost thought on his mind would be 'I want to be strong,' so I thought I'd bring that trait out.” This isn't about his wanting to be strong. This is about revenge and some sort of duty. These are not the reasons Goku sets out to find the Dragonballs. Just isn't how it worked.

What makes Goku such a truly iconic character is how different he has been from everything else we've seen in the realm of heroes. He's naive, he's beatable, he's pure, and he wants desperately to be stronger to a fault. Wanting him to be like that in the movie makes perfect sense to me. I mean, the Transformers movie was a steaming pile of crap, riddled with plot holes, but ya know what? They at least got Optimus Prime right. He may have had lips, and flames, and all other manner of stupid during his brief 30 minutes of screentime, BUT he was a three-story tall Atticus Finch with a blaster rifle as voiced by Peter Cullen. And that's the character. The Goku being described, if this report ends up being accurate, is the worst possible scenario we can see in a movie, and something we should be revolting strongly against.


The fact of the matter is that a Dragonball movie could easily be created that holds to the characters, even if it isn't an exact reproduction of the manga/anime. While I personally would LOVE a more direct adaptation, I think we've all seen how decently the majority of the anime films turned out. While the films lack in plot, they showcased the CHARACTERS and gave us some driving action, in a way that was faithful to the franchise while ignoring some of the mythology. A 10th Anniversary Special-esqe live-action Dragonball is what needs to be aimed for here. Who wants this franchise to produce the next "Catwoman" style bastardization of a film?
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Post by Snail » Fri Oct 05, 2007 3:21 am

MisterFlashdude wrote:
Snail wrote:Well they did kiss in a mature fashion during the Android arc?
Did they? I'll take your word for it rather than flipping through my volumes.

Though I was trying to base my scope on what they were (might be) putting in the "movie"... All scraps and torn up bits of (Pre-Z) Dragonball, which this "movie" seems to be based on.
Even so, on the grand scale, those examples are few, far between, and short-lived.
To clarify myself, I meant the anime :wink:

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Post by Jerseymilk » Fri Oct 05, 2007 8:05 am

Tsukento wrote:(let's hope they don't throw a spikey haired kid in named Vegeta, who's followed everywhere by a knuckle-head brutish kid that does everything Vegeta tells him and calls himself Nappa).
Ha ha. This made me think of the Little Saiyalings comic. XD
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Post by SonEric84 » Fri Oct 05, 2007 8:07 am

Jerseymilk wrote:
Tsukento wrote:(let's hope they don't throw a spikey haired kid in named Vegeta, who's followed everywhere by a knuckle-head brutish kid that does everything Vegeta tells him and calls himself Nappa).
Ha ha. This made me think of the Little Saiyalings comic. XD

Oh man, I loved that comic. It's too bad it was left for dead. :?

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Post by ReiMehari » Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:36 am

desirecampbell wrote:
Thanos6 wrote:And re: "old man Magneto," dude, he was in a Nazi concentration camp. He HAS to be old. What works with Erik Lehnsherr is what works with, believe it or not, Freeza; the weak-looking exterior hides massive power.
I take it you've never, ever, read an Xmen comic. Magneteo is old - not feeble. Magneteo is a great villain because he's not just master of magnetism, he's also fucking ripped. In X2 (and again in X3) they take away his powers and he becomes helpless - that's not Magneteo, goddamnit. He can go toe to toe with the best of them.

Death-T wrote:Holy fucking crap. I'm not a fan of the anime,and I can understand how you would feel about the movie. But even so,you are overcritical to an amazingly disturbing extent.

In all honesty,I thought the movie was awesome. And you don't have to freak out just because someone does like the movie. As the vast majority of the people who've seen it do.
I'm not saying you can't like Transformers (I'm saying you've got to have low standards, but hey, I'm okay with people who like the Orange Box too), I'm just saying that it was a sub-par movie in and of itself, and completely undeserving of the property it used as it's only pull for movie goers.

I'm not overly critical, I just want an adaptation to remain true to at least the core of the plot. That's all. I'm just hoping for 'hey let's not change anything for no goddamn reason'. That's all. Magneteo isn't a frail old man. Peter Parker gives up being Spider-man after his girlfriend dies and the rest of his family and friends are mortally threatened - not merely inconvenienced.



From what we've seen of recent comic book movies, we can expect huge, pointless changes to be made. That's all I'm trying to say.
Sorry for being way behind on this, but Magneto has been de-aged so many times over ythe years, or else he would be just like Ian portrayed him....


and Yeah I have mixed feelings on this movie.
It's strange this hero thing. Whole lives devoted completely to helping others. For no financial reward whatsoever. Struggling ceaselessly against impossible odds, risking almost certain death to help those in trouble. I...I just hope its not catching, yes?

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Post by Calcaneus » Fri Oct 05, 2007 10:45 am

Jerseymilk wrote:
Tsukento wrote:(let's hope they don't throw a spikey haired kid in named Vegeta, who's followed everywhere by a knuckle-head brutish kid that does everything Vegeta tells him and calls himself Nappa).
Ha ha. This made me think of the Little Saiyalings comic. XD
Now that I think of it, I would fully support a Little Saiyalings movie.

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Post by SaiyamanMS » Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:51 am

Tragically, Gohan is struck down by the high ninjas of the Namek-Jins, and as he dies he sends his grandson out to do face his destiny and do battle against them...
Image
Any and all blame for this should go to Conan for convincing me to do this. >_>

(Also, it'd look better it it wasn't a half assed job at 1:30 AM. XD)

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Post by Xyex » Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:55 am

SaiyamanMS wrote:
Tragically, Gohan is struck down by the high ninjas of the Namek-Jins, and as he dies he sends his grandson out to do face his destiny and do battle against them...
<image snipped>

Any and all blame for this should go to Conan for convincing me to do this. >_>

(Also, it'd look better it it wasn't a half assed job at 1:30 AM. XD)
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Post by Dragon Ball Daisuki » Fri Oct 05, 2007 3:15 pm

The facet that Xyex is irritated over, at least the way I see it, is the tendency for people to focus on the obvious flaws of the product and not even give it a chance, rather than attempting to look at it from another point of view. Or maybe that's just me.

Before I begin analyzing this thing, I have a few points to make. First, this is not a script, or even a vague synopsis. It's purpose is to give interested actors a very, very BASE idea of who the characters are and what the movie will look like. It in no terms represents the final look/feel of the movie, or its characters. These things tend to get re-written all the time. For instance, James Cameron is credited for writing the script for 2002's Spider-Man, but have you ever read the original script? It bears almost no resemblance to the final product.

The main villain was "Strand", a sort of combination of Electro and Norman Osborn, and his lackey was the Sandman. In a plot that smacked of NBC's Heroes, Strand was interested in finding likewise "gifted ones" and training them to control their powers for their own interests. Peter has to resist this ideology. Sure, a far cry from the final product, but the basic feel of a super-hero flick about entering adulthood and the choices we make early in life remained intact.

Second, I want to let you in on a secret: NO COMIC BOOK FLICK HAS EVER BEEN FAITHFUL TO ITS SOURCE MATERIAL, EVER. Peter Parker is not a baby-faced dope; he is a slightly neurotic jackass. Neither Norman Osborn or Otto Octavius are "good men gone bad". J. Jonah Jameson isn't a shit-fisted auctioneer. I could go on. Or better yet, look at 2005's Batman Begins. Here is a movie which sought to completely RE-INVENT its source material; almost nothing syncs up with established continuity. But people didn't care. Know why? Because it was a damn good movie. And the Dragon Ball film has the potential to do the same.

Let's get started:

1.
[GOKU] 18 years old, Goku is considered uncool and unpopular at school, but he is in fact an extremely talented martial arts fighter who gets rigorous training from his grandfather, Gohan. After the death of his grandfather by the evil Lord Piccolo, Goku finds his destiny in his grandfather's dying request that he find Master Roshi and gather all seven Dragon Balls (of which he has one) in order to prevent Piccolo from succeeding in his desire to use the dragonballs to take over the world.
First, let's address this business of Son Goku in school. Why is Goku in school? The answer is simple. It's likely a convenient plot device to introduce multiple characters by establishing that they were "always" there as Goku's friends. But there's wiggle-room here as well. We know both Goku and Chi-Chi attend this learning facility, and both are very skilled in the martial arts. What do you suppose the odds of that are? I submit to you that this may in fact be a "martial arts academy" of sorts. There is a focus on combat, but other subjects are taught there as well. Think of monks. It's a strong possibility.

Second, the characterization of Goku isn't too off-base. So little is said in that one paragraph! Being "uncool and unpopular" doesn't immediately equate to "Goku is a geek/social retard". He obviously lacks the normalcy and knowledge of basic topics to relate to most without very much difficulty (not that he cares), but beyond that, the other kids probably make fun of him. UNHEARD OF. Make fun of him for what, you ask? The same thing we make fun of him for: his density/naivete.

Now, again, this doesn't equate to "BOO HOO I'M NOT ACCEPTED BY MY PEERS"; in fact, Goku is just ignorant enough not to notice or even care. But, just by making him this outcast in a social setting, the filmmakers are creating a character that's easier to relate to for people in general. This was not necessary in the television show, where we have plenty of episodes to develop a bond with the title character, but in a movie we don't have that kind of time. We need to identify with the protagonist FAST and move on quickly; lots of ground to cover, limited time to do so.

Third, I'm sure none of us have too many reservations about replacing Ozaru Goku with Piccolo Daimao. It's more convenient to tie the antagonist into the hero's history that way; it also gives Goku a suitable "call to adventure". Because of his caretaker's death, he is forced to seek out training from Roshi and collect the Dragon Balls. He may have otherwise been reluctant to leave his home. Not because he fears the world, but because his home is all he knows.

2.
[BULMA] 20s, female, pretty, with great intelligence behind her gleaming eyes, Bulma is a determined, competitive young woman whose father's five star Dragon Ball was stolen by Lord Piccolo, and who believes that she can harness their unlimited energy and change the world like Edison or Einstein. Bulma, who has a DBE (a Dragon Ball locator device), teams up with Goku, and with him meets up with Master Roshi and Yamcha as they attempt to collect the missing Dragon Balls before Piccolo can destroy the world. A resourceful and courageous young woman who's also a weapons expert, she overcomes many obstacles with her colleagues, only to find the seven Dragon Balls ultimately snatched from their grasp--but it's clear she's going to continue searching for them with Goku and Yamcha...LEAD
Bulma's re-write has got to be my favorite. It's a perfect example of a satisfactory comic-to-film character translation. But let's address the issues, shall we?

She doesn't want to wish for a boyfriend, because (A.) she isn't sixteen years old, and (B.) it wouldn't exactly be appropriate in a movie featuring Piccolo Daimao as the final boss. With Pilaf, it was okay, because Pilaf was silly. But with Piccolo Daimao... the world is ending. Everyone has serious thoughts.

She's a weapons expert. Love it. If she weren't, I suspect she'd be dealt with rather quickly in this movie. (Ten bucks says we get that outfit with the torn pant leg and the guns and the band-aid on the cheek)

Lastly, mentioning Thomas Edison and Albert Einstein in the CHARACTER DESCRIPTION doesn't necessarily cement the movie's earth as our earth. The context of those names are to give INTERESTED ACTORS a feel for what her motives are. Said actors come from real-life earth, so it makes sense to compare Bulma's motives to something they can relate to.

I just want to put it out there that I really like this idea. Thomas Edison harnessed the power of the electron and gave us electricity. Albert Einstein harnessed the power of the atom and gave us atomic energy. Bulma Briefs will harness the power of the Dragon Balls and give us ... some sort of unlimited, awesome technology. Perhaps it will have something to do with the Capsule Corporation's vehicles, or later, with the Artificial Humans? This is interesting. Incidentally, I have no idea why they don't just call the Dragon Radar a Dragon Radar.

3.
[YAMCHA] 20s, "the bad boy who has no trouble attracting women," he taunts Goku, Bulma and Master Yoshi, who are trapped in a sand cave, rather than helping them with his rope ladder. However, after overhearing Master Roshi's tale of Piccolo once nearly destroyed the Earth and are preparing to do so again, Yamcha has a change of heart and not only helps the three in the desert, but becomes a valuable part of the team. An ingenious young man whose utililty truck is the Swiss Army Knife of trucks--every tool and gear imaginable sprouts from its body--Yamcha joins Goku, Bulma (with whom he becomes romantically involved) and Master Yoshi on their quest to find the seven Dragon Balls before Piccolo...LEAD
"the bad boy who has no trouble attracting women" -- nowhere does it imply that Yamucha feels this way about himself. What it does say is that he has no problem attracting women; it says nothing of a very high comfort level while in their presence.

I also had fun envisioning the "Swiss Army Truck". I imagined something akin to Cloud's motorcycle that held all his weapons in Advent Children. And Yamucha has a ton of weapons: various swords, his Panzerfaust, rifles, and a sansetsukon (something like a three-part nunchuck). Sadly, it's true; the Swiss Army Truck's function is to replace Pu'er, but I think in the grand scheme of things, it's for the better. What's the point of introducing this character if we won't see much of him in future installments? You'll notice that Oolong is conspicuously absent as well.

4.
[MASTER ROSHI] This older man is a good friend of Goku's grandfather, Gohan, and Goku comes to enlist his help after his grandfather is killed. Although he looks like a beggar, Roshi is one of the world’s most fearsome fighters. Master Roshi begins Goku's rigorous training to prepare him for the adventure of finding and fighting for the seven Dragon Balls to save the world from Piccolo's destructive plan. A wise, somewhat wry man who knows as much about human nature as he does about martial arts, Master Roshi is impressed with Goku's fighting but reminds him of his failings as well. Ultimately, Master Roshi sacrifices his own life in order to destroy Piccolo...LEAD
I don't think too many of us take offense at Kame-sennin's movie adaptation. Let's keep moving.

5.
[MAI] Late 20s, female, her features exotic, sexy but deadly, dressed in gleaming black, with weapons strapped all over her body, she's a martial arts expert and Lord Piccolo's chief enforcer. Crafty and quick thinking, Mai uses her ability to shapeshift near the climax of the movie and takes on the form of Chi Chi, a young martial arts expert who's romantically involved with Goku and later saves Piccolo from Master Roshi's curse; once she is revealed she ends up in the fight of her life.
This was the best part for me. Mai is so underutilized, in my opinion, by making her one of Pilaf's henchmen. She has this amazing character design and we see her -- what, twice in the manga? First when Goku and company reach Pilaf's castle, and second once Piccolo Daimao's returned? It should be a criminal offense to waste such an awesome character design.

I was pleasantly surprised to read that Mai would be returning as Piccolo's enforcer, but despite my obvious personal bias, I have to say it also makes a lot of sense. Piccolo needs a no-nonsense enforcer, and Mai fits the bill graciously. Beyond that, homage needed to be done to the Pilaf arc, since we're skipping over it. Why not Tambourine or Drum or Piano, you ask? Because the filmmakers already have a lot to deal with; the last thing they need to worry about is how to make dinosaur-men appear realistic.

(Well, Piano, at least, in unacceptable. The other two are negotiable, but not likely.)

And Mai can shapeshift because both Oolong and Pu'er are sitting this one out, and shapeshifting was such a familiar element in those early stories. From the description, it apparently factors into the climax in an important way, so I'm sure the filmmakers have their reasons. Also, she's the one who jumps in front of the Mafuba to protect Piccolo Daimao in this version, so she's replacing Drum as well.

6.


[LORD PICCOLO] An ancient being who despite his humanoid appearance, is from an alien race determined to take over the world. Piccolo is the cursed ruler of a demonic race who nearly destroyed Earth 2000 years ago, and with the coming of the eclipse and the possession of all seven Dragon Balls, he's prepared to free himself and do the job right this time. Crafty and smart, Piccolo has some disturbing news for Goku, namely that the boy is actually a Saiyan who's destined to join Piccolo as his right hand in destroying and enslaving the planet...LEAD
"Humanoid" does not mean "human"; the first word was selected over the second. As was pointed out, humanoid refers to a human-like anatomy, with a torso, two legs, two arms, and one head. Working with this defintion, I think you'll find almost every villain over the course of Dragon Ball is in fact "humanoid", minus the giant Octopus Goku fought in the Red Ribbon arc.

(;

Piccolo's attack was set back to "2,000 years ago" because here, his release seems to be related to an eclipse of some sort, apparently an event that hasn't occurred since the time he was sealed up. This alone should be proof-positive that this isn't our earth.

And Piccolo being the one to reveal Goku's extraterrestrial origins? Big deal. This simplifies things and will likely necessitate the need to spare us from witnessing live-action Raditz, which will in turn simplify the sequel. The implication seems to be that, because Piccolo is a Namek and Goku a Saiya-jin, they MUST work together, as if their races have some sort of respected alliance, but I think this is a misinterpretation at best. What Piccolo's really saying is "Look, you're going to be expected to decimate the entire planet anyway, right? I'm already doing that. Why not join me as my right hand, rather than opposing me? This saves us both a deal of trouble."

Piccolo isn't Palpatine; he doesn't seek to corrupt Goku or make him more like himself. He knows that Goku ALREADY has this overwhelming passion for violence and is playing into that.

An interesting thought: In keeping with the Star Wars comparison, what is "Lord Piccolo" ruler over? Who are his subjects? Who are his common lackeys that Goku and company will defeat again and again? I believe there's a strong possibility that his henchmen could be the Red Ribbon Army as a whole, as this would allow for future movies beyond the Freeza arc.

7.
[CHI CHI] Goku’s lifelong love interest, Chi Chi is an attractive, tom boy-ish young woman who has grown up with Goku. She has studied martial arts and has always suspected that Goku possesses talents that are unusual and extraordinary. After Goku embarks on his journey to redeem his grandfather’s death, Chi Chi meets up with Goku and his crew at a tournament of champions where their mutual attraction finally heats up during a training session.
Yes, this is a departure from the comic book, but it's easier to condense their relationship this way than to have this ridiculous "Let's go to Mt. Frypan!" sidequest in the middle of the movie's plot to introduce her. When you think about it, this is the only way to introduce such an important character and keep the film under reasonable time constraints. This is the motivation behind just about every major change for the movie.

Saying that a young man and woman's "mutual attraction heats up during a training session" IN NO WAY IMPLIES SEXUAL CONNOTATIONS. Attraction is not the same as lust. For instance, right now I'm attracted to a friend of mine that plays music. Why? It's not because she's beautiful and I want to have sex with her, though she is quite pretty. It's because my eyes have been opened to some of her positive qualities and I want to learn more. Likewise, it is during this training match that Goku and Chi-chi begin to look at each other in that different light. Like, "Oh. This is new."

8.
[GOHAN] Goku's kindly, wise grandfather, he looks like he's in his 70s but moves like Jet Li. An accomplished martial artist who trains Goku on the bow staff, he loves his grandson and is happy to prepare a special feast for him on his 18th birthday, as well as a special gift: a 3 star Dragon Ball. Tragically, Gohan is struck down by the high ninjas of the Namek-Jins, and as he dies he sends his grandson out to do face his destiny and do battle against them...
Yes, it's the 3-star DB and not the 4-star. This will be corrected later, as minor details usually are. But if it isn't, honestly it affects the story or characters in no way whatsoever. It's merely a sentimental detail.

I'm getting to "the high-ninjas of the Namek-Jins", just hold on. A lot of people (myself included) have been lamenting over Kuririn's absence. For me, it's the thing that will either make or break this movie. Now at first I guessed that the filmmakers were getting around this by combining Kuririn and Goku into one character, sort of like how Mary Jane was an amalgamation of Mary Jane and Gwen Stacy for the first two Spider-Man films. But now, my opinion has changed. Why?

Son Gohan throws Goku a feast for his 18th birthday.

Now, what would be the point of preparing an elaborate feast if you have NO ONE on hand to attend? If only Chi-Chi attended (and why wouldn't she?) you would just have this awkward dinner date, with Gohan as the chaperon. But with the inclusion of a certain noseless monk, the dinner guests become more well-rounded. You have the benefactor (Gohan), the main character, his best friend, his love interest, and the love interest's father, who happens to be a childhood friend of the benefactor. This goes a long way to even out the scene for me.

If Kuririn attends the same school as Goku, then in Kuririn we have a THIRD martial arts expert attending the same school. This is too convenient. My theory of a martial arts academy is beginning to make a lot of sense.

Finally, the moment you've all been waiting (and reading) for...

THE HIGH NINJAS OF THE NAMEK-JINS.

This doesn't necessarily reflect negatively on the Namekian race. The writer could have actually been referring to the half-demon spawn of Piccolo Daimao, Tambourine or Drum, but didn't want to get into specifics. This effectively mirrors the early Piccolo Daimaou arc, simply switching Kuririn out with Son Gohan.

Alternately, there could be other Nameks that grew corrupt like Piccolo, as in Movie 4, and joined his cause. (I hope this is not the case)

Finally, the "high ninjas" could simply refer to human ninjas under Piccolo's employ. I doubt seriously the filmmakers would paint the entire race as demonic for sake of future installments, despite what this very early casting call might imply.

I've talked your ear off long enough. So I'll leave everyone to pause and think for a while. Instead of picking out faults with the entire movie in general, how about we take a number and DISCUSS the corresponding character description? This might prove more productive.
For yer health!

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Post by Olivier Hague » Fri Oct 05, 2007 3:52 pm

Dragon Ball Daisuki wrote:Why is Goku in school? The answer is simple. It's likely a convenient plot device to introduce multiple characters by establishing that they were "always" there as Goku's friends.
Who would these "multiple characters" be? Bulma and Yamcha are both in their 20s. There's only Chi-chi, as far as I can tell.
We know both Goku and Chi-Chi attend this learning facility, and both are very skilled in the martial arts. What do you suppose the odds of that are? I submit to you that this may in fact be a "martial arts academy" of sorts. There is a focus on combat, but other subjects are taught there as well. Think of monks. It's a strong possibility.
"Goku is considered uncool and unpopular at school, but he is in fact an extremely talented martial arts fighter"
If that school was about martial arts, why would he be considered "uncool and unpopular"?
the characterization of Goku isn't too off-base. So little is said in that one paragraph!
And what is said has little to do with Toriyama's Gokû.
As for assuming there's a lot more they didn't mention and that would actually make the character look a lot more like the original Gokû... well, I'd call that "wishful thinking".
I'm sure none of us have too many reservations about replacing Ozaru Goku with Piccolo Daimao. It's more convenient to tie the antagonist into the hero's history that way; it also gives Goku a suitable "call to adventure".
Yeah, just have the bad guy's men kill a relative, that should send the (suprisingly gifted) main character on a quest.
He will meet an old master (who will sacrifice himself while fighting the main bad guy), some girl (in possession of an important McGuffin), and a scoundrel with a heart of gold (who will end up falling in love with the girl previously mentioned).
And then, at the end, the villain will reveal the shocking truth to the main character: he's to join him on the dark side of the For... Er.

Yeah, that's Dragon Ball, all right.
I don't think too many of us take offense at Kame-sennin's movie adaptation.
Well, yeah, we can't have him being a pervert in the US movie, right? That wouldn't fly.
So he's old. And looks like a beggar. That's his character.

Dragon Ball? Ah, yes. Dragon Ball. I almost forgot.
I was pleasantly surprised to read that Mai would be returning as Piccolo's enforcer, but despite my obvious personal bias, I have to say it also makes a lot of sense. Piccolo needs a no-nonsense enforcer, and Mai fits the bill graciously.
Or they felt their movie needed an evil female character, so they had to find something. Anything.
Why not Tambourine or Drum or Piano, you ask? Because the filmmakers already have a lot to deal with
Also, boobs.
And Mai can shapeshift because both Oolong and Pu'er are sitting this one out, and shapeshifting was such a familiar element in those early stories.
Plus, she will able to seduce the main character without alienating the audience ("he thought that was really Chi-chi! it's not his fault!").
she's the one who jumps in front of the Mafuba to protect Piccolo Daimao in this version
What?
Piccolo isn't Palpatine
'Looks more like Vader, so far.
what is "Lord Piccolo" ruler over? Who are his subjects? Who are his common lackeys that Goku and company will defeat again and again? I believe there's a strong possibility that his henchmen could be the Red Ribbon Army as a whole
Or Namek-Jin high ninjas.
Saying that a young man and woman's "mutual attraction heats up during a training session" IN NO WAY IMPLIES SEXUAL CONNOTATIONS.
Okayyy?
it is during this training match that Goku and Chi-chi begin to look at each other in that different light. Like, "Oh. This is new."
Also, heat. Possibly sweat.
Have you never seen a Hollywood movie? Don't you see they're being extremely formulaic, here?
Yes, it's the 3-star DB and not the 4-star. This will be corrected later, as minor details usually are. But if it isn't, honestly it affects the story or characters in no way whatsoever. It's merely a sentimental detail.
It's also kinda telling.
If Kuririn attends the same school as Goku, then in Kuririn we have a THIRD martial arts expert attending the same school. This is too convenient. My theory of a martial arts academy is beginning to make a lot of sense.
And your extrapolations are beginning to seriously go out of control...
THE HIGH NINJAS OF THE NAMEK-JINS.
This doesn't necessarily reflect negatively on the Namekian race. The writer could have actually been referring to the half-demon spawn of Piccolo Daimao, Tambourine or Drum, but didn't want to get into specifics.
"High ninjas"?
I doubt seriously the filmmakers would paint the entire race as demonic for sake of future installments, despite what this very early casting call might imply.
I wouldn't be surprised at all, really. Do you really think they care about the original story?

I don't know, I guess I'm just surprised some of you (most of you??) have so much faith (or any at all, really) in Hollywood studios...

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Post by Xyex » Fri Oct 05, 2007 4:13 pm

The facet that Xyex is irritated over, at least the way I see it, is the tendency for people to focus on the obvious flaws of the product and not even give it a chance, rather than attempting to look at it from another point of view. Or maybe that's just me.
Thank-you! Exactly. Olivier's post is a prime example of the problem. But that's fine, I've come to expect nothing less.

Daisuki's covered everything I'd tried to, and much more indepth and clearly than I managed (largely due to the high annoyance factor involved with even reading the posts I was responding to >>). And also, nothing even says that the "High Ninja Namek-jins" are even, actually, Nameks. We could have former Piccolo spawn that have their own village where they've been hiding and preparing to release Piccolo for the last 2,000 years mixed in with actual Humans who, for their own reasons, joined them and call themselves Namek-jin just as Piccolo called himself a Demon simply because he was evil. I mean, Mai works for him, why not lots of nameless people?

Only other thing I want to comment on is:
Bulma Briefs will harness the power of the Dragon Balls and give us ... some sort of unlimited, awesome technology. Perhaps it will have something to do with the Capsule Corporation's vehicles, or later, with the Artificial Humans?
Thank-you for that muchly, it's got my gears spinning for a few ideas for fanfics. 8)
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<Kaboom> I'm just glad that he now sounds more like Invader Zim than Rita Repulsa
<Xyex> Original Freeza never sounded like a chick to me.
<Kaboom> Neither does Rita
<Xyex> Good point.

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